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Don't know about looks or smarts. I feel like I'm often not in any position to date though.

With Fe I do have a good sense of what other people want out of dating. I know how to be a good boyfriend. That's all pretty straight-forward.

But I don't know what I really want myself romantically.
I have some idealized abstract vision of a dream partner but I know they don't likely exist. Those who come close enough seem rare and live so far away from me, or they have a boyfriend already or something else. So in reality I'm left feeling indecisive and ambivalent about dating.
If you told me to describe my ideal partner, it would be really quite difficult.

Well, I don't nor have I ever had any check list of what one must abide by to get into my good graces. I rely only on how I feel or how that person makes me feel. I guess I don't really believe in soul mates, I think you can fuse with just about anyone that you find has similar qualities that you can both share BUT there must be a physical attraction, that is just a given. Too many variables to come up with some kind of 'list'.
For most people, including me, an ideal partner has some form of logical thinking but is laid back and loves to laugh. That is a complete package! Don't you agree??
 

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I feel like Rona has subconsciously affected a lot of NFs (we're emotional sponges, remember?) which has resulted in this collective feeling of apathy and complacency. I know my INFJ s/o is amazing but with long-term lockdown in my country now it is difficult for me to feel inspired and excited about anything, even my relationship which is raw to admit. Dating to me is generally painful and time-consuming but in the background of the current uneventfulness I look back on those memories of my dating phase with fondness and nostalgia, haha.

However, I'm trying not to put a weight on this and just wait for life to resume. As an INFJ I need a fluctuating blend of novelty and security but right now everything has come to a stop and I'm simply existing than living, it feels weird. I'm letting myself be than do. I've never felt this way before and romance for example was one of the few things besides music that always invigorated me, haha. Now, it's all just ''there''. I'm not depressed, I just feel ultimately at a still and disinterested.

This is all my perspective as an INFJ and a human being. I'm a female but I don't feel like there are a lot of gender differences in terms of mentality between male and female INFJs since male INFJs are already quite female-minded. I think it comes down to how ready you feel to this present moment to seek out romance and if it's a priority to you, i.e. a core value. My INFJ partner (male) never considered dating as an option for the majority of his life due to his own personal circumstances and also because he was probably too strict of himself and idealistic to allow himself to attempt dating. For me, at times I've dated and proactively sought out relationships but then it's always been platonic and I'd take years between relationships before I commit to someone again. Sometimes I took breaks from dating entirely. I also felt pressure by my family and as a female to seek a partner because of that 'biological clock' crap that traditional or insecure folk like to rub in your face. Then I did some research and it turned out biology does not favour either gender and economically my generation is far worse off than recent, older generations to afford a family life. People have developed a greater sensibility now of the commitment and responsibility it takes to be married, have children, how it affects your quality of life and mental health if you rush into it. Not to mention the social evolution we're going through influenced by the boom of technology.

My conclusion is that being a male who is INFJ, intelligent and attractive does not equal a recipe for ultimate partnership, OR does not equal a male who is interested in relationships and marriage, OR a male who'd definitely be a good boyfriend, husband and father.

P.S. Ergh, I still can't get over this new forum layout, since when did we start striving looking like Reddit?! xD Not a Reddit fan...
 

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What don't you feel? Attraction? A spark? The difference between every single person in the entire world and that one that just appears to stand out, above and beyond all the others? Aren't you curious as to why?
That is hard to describe, especially for someone else, or other types. It is highly personal and probably highly ''niche'' when you take NF-males into consideration, or Fi and Ni dominants in general.

For me, it would be a romantic conviction. A feeling that they fit the dreamy faery tale. Romance is a very selfish and shallow thing, love is not. I don't miss out on love though, or maybe just a little. Romance, however, is very hard to come by. Perhaps it is fuelled by the enneagram 4s wish (common type within NF-realm) to derive some sort of self-expression or feelsy art through romance. One time I caught myself on this, when I met someone I liked on deep levels. Nothing seemed to be really missing, but I couldn't see them as a romantic partner, even if I wanted to. Fi could not just fake that part, it would result in that nagging ache in the back of your conscience, gnawing away, telling yourself you are faking it, almost to a point that it feels like you are betraying the other person with a fake admiration or desirability.
I hated it. I thought that was very screwed up and a waste to be like this. I love(d) them but not romanticised them. Yet in the end, the people I love I don't consider to be my partners. Why make things complicated when you can be just friends? Why risk the situation pretending to commit to someone, knowing that one day you may get struck by that ''object'' of your desire. I know people in fact do use placeholder relationships to get by, ready to hop onto other relationships when timing is convenient, but to me that feels inherently bad to treat someone like that.
So; when someone isn't the complete package, I don't go around telling others that they are, that's just cruel and setting yourself and others up for emotional disasters. Actually, the ironic part now is that I realise that in the past it were actually INFJ and INTJ that had seen and accused me of doing this. In my defence however, I never declared them my commitments or intentions on doing so.

There's absolutely nothing rational about this and non of it really makes that much sense. Yet, at the same time it cannot be changed either, so I'm not going to bother others with that. Perhaps there's someone out there that does somehow understand this, and I know these someone's exist, seeing as I found one of them before in life. When you know, it is hard to ignore this knowledge and play trial-and-error on other relationships / people's feelings. It's way too messy.

dianeextro said:
Please explain....What I am hearing is that your type does not have the ability to be attracted or have any special connection to someone? That can't possibly be true, can it?
I'm not sure what you meant here, nor understand how you interpreted this from my former message.
 

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Well, I don't nor have I ever had any check list of what one must abide by to get into my good graces. I rely only on how I feel or how that person makes me feel. I guess I don't really believe in soul mates, I think you can fuse with just about anyone that you find has similar qualities that you can both share BUT there must be a physical attraction, that is just a given. Too many variables to come up with some kind of 'list'.
For most people, including me, an ideal partner has some form of logical thinking but is laid back and loves to laugh. That is a complete package! Don't you agree??
Well.... It's hard for me to say if I'd consider it a "complete package" but those traits are good ones to have. I could be friends with someone like that, for sure. Maybe even FWB.

But a romantic partner to spend life with.... that's getting into complicated territory. Love is not a checklist of things I want per se... it's more like an overall vibe that someone gives that I'm receptive towards. Like in fiction when I see a certain couple and it's like: "wow, those two have such cute chemistry.... I wish I could have a love that was so true like that."
 

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Well.... It's hard for me to say if I'd consider it a "complete package" but those traits are good ones to have. I could be friends with someone like that, for sure. Maybe even FWB.

But a romantic partner to spend life with.... that's getting into complicated territory. Love is not a checklist of things I want per se... it's more like an overall vibe that someone gives that I'm receptive towards. Like in fiction when I see a certain couple and it's like: "wow, those two have such cute chemistry.... I wish I could have a love that was so true like that."

Be patient...When it happens you will most certainly know.
 

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Hmm. I think anyone that wants to date definitely can, I've dated a shitload but now I'm engaged to a beautiful ISFP. Oh, I should mention that when I say "date" I don't mean the casual shit that a lot in my generation are into. I'm not into relationships for sex alone (bleh). In fact, I say up front that even if we're really in the mood together, that I won't act on anything unless I truly feel we have a future together. That is usually a turn off for most while getting to know me, it helped to weed out the ones who were dating for superficial reasons. Another thing is surface-level chat. My god, I despise talking about the weather as a placeholder for deep feelings. I really want to get to know the person I'm with. Again I say all of these things up front and I try not to be too intense about it (we can be intimidating to others if we don't watch it). I make it known that I'm serious, but not so damn serious that we can't chill and have fun. I try to balance deeper conversations with interspersed jokes.

I don't know if it's because I'm 9w8, but I have a lot of confidence in my step. I'm told that I'm shy, warm and confident all at the same time. I don't usually come off strong on anyone unless I'm highly interested (or if the topic we're getting into deals with the future and humanity, then I start to melt). When I used to date I would have to think for a moment and reflect on myself first before getting involved with anyone. How do I look? How am I presenting myself? How do I sound? The way I am now, would I ever be willing to change? Am I just mask-changing? It takes a lot of reflection, but once I look inside myself and see what I can give to others I start to love myself very much. Only then can I actually give my all in a relationship. Of course there may be times where I'm down in a relationship and I can still give love, but I only do it to my fullest when I really love myself. I'm not just talking about feigning confidence either. One issue I sometimes struggle with is taking care of everyone's needs before my own. One day I decided to try imagining the person I was treating as myself, and that was crazy for me. I realized right then and there how I should treat myself.

So those are some of my tips. Here's one final tip: I've noticed that most people meet the partners of their lives either doing something that they love, or by bumping into that person via routine of some sort. Two examples are seeing the same person or group of people for weeks on end and gaining familiarity, or volunteering at a temporary workshop while getting ever closer. Basically, getting outside and becoming part of some sort of group or routine is super valuable. Hell, sometimes there are family get togethers where some people bring their friends along for the ride and maybe you feel a connection. I say, jump into it. I've noticed that anytime I feel a connection with someone they usually have some sort of interest in me. To all the INFJs out there, if you're not going outside go outside. If you can't go outside due to rona, the internet does wonders. Though I can't say dating has ever worked well for me there. No, I'm not old-fashioned by any means, it just isn't something that works. I've noticed while dating on the internet that humans get so picky to the point of trying to meet someone that fits every expectation they have! It's great to have values and expectations, don't get me wrong, but if one box isn't checked off out 30, that probably means you've gotta adjust yourself and grow. I don't want a mess of a partner either, but I am not against growing with them. To me, growing with someone is one of the most beautiful things to experience.

Hope you guys have some success out there. Oh, and if any of you happen to be a surefire 6w5 by any chance, lemme know how it goes! I'd like to report back to my INFJ best bud. He's a 6w5, 30 and he's never dated. I really want him to date and he does too, but he never puts himself out there. His main thing is he thinks he'll have to give up a ton of freedom to be with someone. What a long conversation that has been. Anyway, good luck!
 
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Hmm. I think anyone that wants to date definitely can, I've dated a shitload but now I'm engaged to a beautiful ISFP. Oh, I should mention that when I say "date" I don't mean the casual shit that a lot in my generation are into. I'm not into relationships for sex alone (bleh). In fact, I say up front that even if we're really in the mood together, that I won't act on anything unless I truly feel we have a future together. That is usually a turn off for most while getting to know me, it helped to weed out the ones who were dating for superficial reasons. Another thing is surface-level chat. My god, I despise talking about the weather as a placeholder for deep feelings. I really want to get to know the person I'm with. Again I say all of these things up front and I try not to be too intense about it (we can be intimidating to others if we don't watch it). I make it known that I'm serious, but not so damn serious that we can't chill and have fun. I try to balance deeper conversations with interspersed jokes.

I don't know if it's because I'm 9w8, but I have a lot of confidence in my step. I'm told that I'm shy, warm and confident all at the same time. I don't usually come off strong on anyone unless I'm highly interested (or if the topic we're getting into deals with the future and humanity, then I start to melt). When I used to date I would have to think for a moment and reflect on myself first before getting involved with anyone. How do I look? How am I presenting myself? How do I sound? The way I am now, would I ever be willing to change? Am I just mask-changing? It takes a lot of reflection, but once I look inside myself and see what I can give to others I start to love myself very much. Only then can I actually give my all in a relationship. Of course there may be times where I'm down in a relationship and I can still give love, but I only do it to my fullest when I really love myself. I'm not just talking about feigning confidence either. One issue I sometimes struggle with is taking care of everyone's needs before my own. One day I decided to try imagining the person I was treating as myself, and that was crazy for me. I realized right then and there how I should treat myself.

So those are some of my tips. Here's one final tip: I've noticed that most people meet the partners of their lives either doing something that they love, or by bumping into that person via routine of some sort. Two examples are seeing the same person or group of people for weeks on end and gaining familiarity, or volunteering at a temporary workshop while getting ever closer. Basically, getting outside and becoming part of some sort of group or routine is super valuable. Hell, sometimes there are family get togethers where some people bring their friends along for the ride and maybe you feel a connection. I say, jump into it. I've noticed that anytime I feel a connection with someone they usually have some sort of interest in me. To all the INFJs out there, if you're not going outside go outside. If you can't go outside due to rona, the internet does wonders. Though I can't say dating has ever worked well for me there. No, I'm not old-fashioned by any means, it just isn't something that works. I've noticed while dating on the internet that humans get so picky to the point of trying to meet someone that fits every expectation they have! It's great to have values and expectations, don't get me wrong, but if one box isn't checked off out 30, that probably means you've gotta adjust yourself and grow. I don't want a mess of a partner either, but I am not against growing with them. To me, growing with someone is one of the most beautiful things to experience.

Hope you guys have some success out there. Oh, and if any of you happen to be a surefire 6w5 by any chance, lemme know how it goes! I'd like to report back to my INFJ best bud. He's a 6w5, 30 and he's never dated. I really want him to date and he does too, but he never puts himself out there. His main thing is he thinks he'll have to give up a ton of freedom to be with someone. What a long conversation that has been. Anyway, good luck!

That was a great synopsis of your take on the entire relationship subject...Kudos! I have a quick question; If someone was clearly interested in you, so much so that they even hand write a letter to you, how would you react or respond whether you are 1. Already interested in them or 2. Not at all interested? Would you ignore the inquiry if not interested or would you take a very long time to reply if you were unsure but interested?
Also, if you were interested in someone, would you do alot of staring and eye locking, or do you guys just do that in general to read people?
I do appreciate your insight as there is an obvious reason for my question.
Thanks!
 

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If someone was clearly interested in you, so much so that they even hand write a letter to you, how would you react or respond whether you are:

1. Already interested in them or
2. Not at all interested? Would you ignore the inquiry or would you take a very long time to reply if you were unsure but interested?

Also, if you were interested in someone, would you do alot of staring and eye locking, or do you guys just do that in general to read people?
So my answer might offend some people but here we go.

Before I answer both questions let's address that letter. How was it delivered? Is it heartfelt? Was it expected? Was it random? Was it wanted? Has it been part of a continuous form of harassment? How attractive is that person to the recipient of the letter? Attraction is really important here but what trumps it, in my opinion, is the level of familiarity the sender has with the recipient. If the recipient barely knows the sender it may come off as creepy, but if the attraction is there it might be welcomed.
So in regards to the letter those are the questions I would likely consider. If most of the answers are receptive, then we've got of a sweet spark!

1. If you're interested, oh man this could be fun. You could both send lovely letters to each other and maybe spritz your favorite perfume on it? This back and forth would be quite an interesting way to open up to someone and it would make the inevitable face-to-face even more exciting.

2. If you're not at all interested then I would verbally politely turn them down without the hope of a friendship. In my experience, even if you aren't intending to lead someone on, if you turn them down and then immediately ask to be friends it sends mixed signals. If they're a creep, things can get really dicey here. So again, if you're not at all interested remain professional and frank but speak amicably.

If you're unsure, take your time and reflect on why you're unsure. Do you have some unresolved things you need to take care of first? Do you have to focus on other priorities right now? Ask yourself why you're unsure; if you don't like your answers, reflect a bit more. If you find you're still unsure then perhaps talk to an acquaintance who is familiar with the person to get their take (only if you know that the acquaintance won't go back and tell the letter sender, of course).

When I'm interested in someone I definitely look into their eyes, but I'm not a creep about it. There's no set time limit for locking eyes in my opinion, but there's a "science" to it I believe. I read some article a while back on the "perfect" amount of time to gaze into someone's eyes, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. If I want to read someone I usually just hang around them and see how they react to different people at different times or even during different days. The main thing I'm looking for is a consistent pattern. If they break that pattern then I start to wonder what caused it. Is something wrong? Perhaps they were feigning a part of their personality?

Sorry if this may have raised more questions than answers, but I hope this helps!
 

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Hmm. I think anyone that wants to date definitely can, I've dated a shitload but now I'm engaged to a beautiful ISFP...
Beautifully put, Semantyx! And congratulations on your engagement! I'm surprised your partner is an ISFP, they must be well-developed and mature. I was in a 5-year relationship with an ISFP back in the day and frankly speaking it was dysfunctional, hahah. He was very attractive but his personality during conflict - total clash.:LOL:

Also my bestie INFJ who's 2w1 has another bestie INFJ who's 6w5 and she struggles with relationships surprisingly a lot more than me and my friend as both INFJs. She tried out dating but she's very sensitive and after a couple of bad experiences as a head type she gave up and locked away that part of herself. So bizarre, and she's only in her 20s as well. She does engage in hobbies like dancing though so I'm sure she'll meet the right guy unexpectedly and situationally, who will naturally gain her trust and make her open up to love eventually. Heck, I've had a lot of trust issues myself before meeting my current partner.
 

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So my answer might offend some people but here we go.

Before I answer both questions let's address that letter. How was it delivered? Is it heartfelt? Was it expected? Was it random? Was it wanted? Has it been part of a continuous form of harassment? How attractive is that person to the recipient of the letter? Attraction is really important here but what trumps it, in my opinion, is the level of familiarity the sender has with the recipient. If the recipient barely knows the sender it may come off as creepy, but if the attraction is there it might be welcomed.
So in regards to the letter those are the questions I would likely consider. If most of the answers are receptive, then we've got of a sweet spark!

1. If you're interested, oh man this could be fun. You could both send lovely letters to each other and maybe spritz your favorite perfume on it? This back and forth would be quite an interesting way to open up to someone and it would make the inevitable face-to-face even more exciting.

2. If you're not at all interested then I would verbally politely turn them down without the hope of a friendship. In my experience, even if you aren't intending to lead someone on, if you turn them down and then immediately ask to be friends it sends mixed signals. If they're a creep, things can get really dicey here. So again, if you're not at all interested remain professional and frank but speak amicably.

If you're unsure, take your time and reflect on why you're unsure. Do you have some unresolved things you need to take care of first? Do you have to focus on other priorities right now? Ask yourself why you're unsure; if you don't like your answers, reflect a bit more. If you find you're still unsure then perhaps talk to an acquaintance who is familiar with the person to get their take (only if you know that the acquaintance won't go back and tell the letter sender, of course).

When I'm interested in someone I definitely look into their eyes, but I'm not a creep about it. There's no set time limit for locking eyes in my opinion, but there's a "science" to it I believe. I read some article a while back on the "perfect" amount of time to gaze into someone's eyes, but I'd take that with a grain of salt. If I want to read someone I usually just hang around them and see how they react to different people at different times or even during different days. The main thing I'm looking for is a consistent pattern. If they break that pattern then I start to wonder what caused it. Is something wrong? Perhaps they were feigning a part of their personality?

Sorry if this may have raised more questions than answers, but I hope this helps!
That was awesome, thank you for your direct answers. That fact of the matter is that I'm not very young, not super old either but I do have some experience in sensing things such as an attraction. This man that is the object of my attention, right now is middle aged, however, almost no interaction with any female for most of his life, per his friends. He spent many years barely talking to anyone regardless of the setting. Recently he has come out of his shell and mingles with just about everyone but it does appear that he stays away from me, unless he really musters up the courage and then he will kinda hang around the group of people I am with so as to 'run into me' and then we chit chat about very generic events. He seems tongue tied and also oddly forgets our past conversations, which was shocking to me. I rarely approach him because I need to be sure that he was as interested as I and that is why after about 5 months of this...I send the hand written letter and yes, sprayed it with my perfume. (Funny you said that), the old fashion snail mail. I explained everything in that letter such as situations where I froze up and said goofy things and I corrected a statement that I had made regarding dates that was incorrect, just to set the record straight. I told him that the letter was sent because of his personality type and the longing for people to be direct, so I was giving the direct approach a test drive.
I ended it with all my contact information along with the fact that now, he knows and soon I suppose I would know.
Finally I simply told him not to leave me hanging to long.
So there has been NO contact at all for over a week. I am not accustomed to your personality type but from my end, I seriously doubt he will do a single thing. Too bad...too sad. Nothing else I can do, Ive done more then I would ever normally do in this situation after all, I am the girl.
Hey, thanks again...Its nice to vent sometimes.
 

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I've never felt this way before and romance for example was one of the few things besides music that always invigorated me, haha. Now, it's all just ''there''. I'm not depressed, I just feel ultimately at a still and disinterested.

This is all my perspective as an INFJ and a human being. I'm a female but I don't feel like there are a lot of gender differences in terms of mentality between male and female INFJs since male INFJs are already quite female-minded. I also felt pressure by my family and as a female to seek a partner because of that 'biological clock' crap that traditional or insecure folk like to rub in your face. Then I did some research and it turned out biology does not favour either gender and economically my generation is far worse off than recent, older generations to afford a family life. People have developed a greater sensibility now of the commitment and responsibility it takes to be married, have children, how it affects your quality of life and mental health if you rush into it. Not to mention the social evolution we're going through influenced by the boom of technology.

My conclusion is that being a male who is INFJ, intelligent and attractive does not equal a recipe for ultimate partnership, OR does not equal a male who is interested in relationships and marriage, OR a male who'd definitely be a good boyfriend, husband and father.
After you replied to my post I had to scroll up and see if you'd said anything else prior, and this is so interesting to me. I definitely think the rona has led to me not wanting to go outside as much, and man, being indoors with your SO day in day out is always eye-opening; I'll address that further below.

Gonna vent here a bit, but you can skip this specific block if you're uninterested. It's really interesting that you believe male and female INFJs are similar and you're the first person I've seen that acknowledges our female-minded side haha. Let me say that I have three best friends: INFP (male) 4w5 from High School, INFJ (male) 6w5 from an online competitive game and my SO ISFP (female) 6w7. After I met my SO from years of searching (though with all my effort, I know there's still a huge luck factor), I was determined to help put my best friends out there haha. I'm such a meddler, but I do it with good intentions. The INFP has found an amazing ISFP (don't know what her wings are), and they're going strong. They're very old fashioned but it's funny, this rona is taking a toll on them. I'm not laughing, funny is perhaps the wrong word. It is interesting that something like this creates such a struggle. If anything though, it is eye-opening for both parties and it will ultimately strengthen their relationship. They're still going strong. For my INFJ brother, ah man I hope he finds someone who won't manipulate him. I have been trying for years to push him out of his shell, the only reason he ever let me in is because I was one of the few people online that was authentic with him. Ever since we met, we clicked and we've been talking nonstop ever since; it's been so many years.

This block will be more relevant. For my INFJ best friend, I wonder if it would be best for him to seek out an INFJ female. But I feel wrong just thinking about him seeking out a fellow INFJ with a specific Enneatype to boot. Something in my gut tells me we shouldn't be thinking of people only in terms of their type. Of course, this may be obvious to some, though considering the potential benefits of finding a great partner this is such an enticing idea. My grandparents have been married for forty years and they're both INFJs. My grandfather is a 1w2 and though I haven't figured out grandma's type yet, I have reason to believe she is probably a 9w1. When they bicker I just laugh to myself, they are a beautiful couple. Though one huge drawback I've seen is they both let each other slack off in the sensory world. Trying not to sound too harsh, but they have both gotten very lax with the things they eat and have allowed many things around the house to pile up due to not being interested in certain forms of upkeep. So this is one scenario I've considered when talking to my best friend yet there are obviously so many other factors that go into relationships besides Enneatype and MBTI. This truly is an endless conversation.

I absolutely despise those who try and pressure their friends or family into a relationship for something as trivial as "biological clocks". Yes, it exists but that is not the point of a good relationship. If we're lucky, a child is a happy byproduct. People try and force others to have children when that might not be the best idea! What if they aren't emotionally ready? What if they still feel like children themselves? Ugh.

Beautifully put, Semantyx! And congratulations on your engagement! I'm surprised your partner is an ISFP, they must be well-developed and mature. I was in a 5-year relationship with an ISFP back in the day and frankly speaking it was dysfunctional, hahah. He was very attractive but his personality during conflict - total clash.:LOL:

Also my bestie INFJ who's 2w1 has another bestie INFJ who's 6w5 and she struggles with relationships surprisingly a lot more than me and my friend as both INFJs. She tried out dating but she's very sensitive and after a couple of bad experiences as a head type she gave up and locked away that part of herself. So bizarre, and she's only in her 20s as well. She does engage in hobbies like dancing though so I'm sure she'll meet the right guy unexpectedly and situationally, who will naturally gain her trust and make her open up to love eventually. Heck, I've had a lot of trust issues myself before meeting my current partner.
Thank you for the congrats! She is awesome. We definitely have issues but all revolve around the different ways in which we process and communicate. She can definitely be more temperamental. Jeez, just thinking about how she acts when she's angry can give me shivers haha. She can be very impulsive as well and often catches herself acting without thinking. On my end I can seem overly critical always wanting to "solve a problem". I've been told that even with good intentions, while conversing with all of my loved ones I can come off as too cerebral. Usually a comment like that would be an ego-boost, though when you realize you're too damn serious when all your family wants is emotional support it stings. I've learned to show my warmth and get in touch with my Fe. As for her and I, we realized that there is a huge difference in how we communicate and as long as there are few comprises we are fine. She likes to compromise thinking nothing of it until she hates the activity she has compromised for. She typically holds it in until her negativity is bursting. After we isolated some patterns, we realized a couple things:

INFJs are crazy and we do some seriously deep mental dives. Luckily, ISFPs have Ni as their tertiary function and can keep up with our craziness since they're so accepting. The issue is she was forcing herself to talk endlessly when she just wanted a break sometimes. Now she tells me when she's ready to deep dive and we're fine. Of course if something is super important I'll let her know: "Hey, we need to talk at length here, so please set aside some time for this." This is great because she doesn't feel cornered and has time to prepare herself.

Ah, a 6w5 like my best friend. Yep! Just like him! He had some interesting encounters with many folk throughout his younger years and decided he would close off the world. He put it like this: "Mike, I built a huge fence up and just sat behind it for years. If anyone wanted to walk up to it I would talk to them from behind it without much hope for a relationship. But when I met you, you saw the fence and hopped over that shit to gimme a handshake. You're the only person I've ever let in, not even my family knows the things you do. I'm not really ready to let others in yet, but I'm slowly letting down my fence." He works in a grocery store and has been doing his best to exercise Fe. He finds that most people quickly lose interest in many topics he brings up (philosophy, gaming, TV Shows, etc.) and he's looking for those that remain. No luck yet but I know he'll find someone!

That was awesome, thank you for your direct answers. Recently he has come out of his shell and mingles with just about everyone but it does appear that he stays away from me, unless he really musters up the courage and then he will kinda hang around the group of people I am with so as to 'run into me' and then we chit chat about very generic events. He seems tongue tied and also oddly forgets our past conversations, which was shocking to me. I rarely approach him because I need to be sure that he was as interested as I and that is why after about 5 months of this...I send the hand written letter and yes, sprayed it with my perfume. (Funny you said that), the old fashion snail mail. I explained everything in that letter such as situations where I froze up and said goofy things and I corrected a statement that I had made regarding dates that was incorrect, just to set the record straight. I told him that the letter was sent because of his personality type and the longing for people to be direct, so I was giving the direct approach a test drive.
I ended it with all my contact information along with the fact that now, he knows and soon I suppose I would know.
Finally I simply told him not to leave me hanging to long.
So there has been NO contact at all for over a week. I am not accustomed to your personality type but from my end, I seriously doubt he will do a single thing. Too bad...too sad. Nothing else I can do, Ive done more then I would ever normally do in this situation after all, I am the girl.
Hey, thanks again...Its nice to vent sometimes.
Ohhhh! Im giddy from reading this! And you're very welcome! It truly is strange that he's being so reclusive. I definitely have been a recluse for sure, but not so much in relationships. Plus, when I'm gonna ghost I tend to let my loved ones know so they don't get hurt. By now everyone knows what to expect of me.

Hmm. I wonder if my INFJ best friend would act this way? I'll have to ask. This may be a stupid question but are you sure he received the letter? The ball is in his field and he hasn't acted yet, that's strange. I wonder if he's planning something nice or is having trouble working up the courage. Is he an INFJ? Maybe he's currently taking in information about you. I really do hope he received that letter, it is so sweet!

Anyway, I hope you're not beating yourself up over it or anything. I hope you get closure soon! Good luck! :)
 
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After you replied to my post I had to scroll up and see if you'd said anything else prior, and this is so interesting to me. I definitely think the rona has led to me not wanting to go outside as much, and man, being indoors with your SO day in day out is always eye-opening; I'll address that further below.

Gonna vent here a bit, but you can skip this specific block if you're uninterested. It's really interesting that you believe male and female INFJs are similar and you're the first person I've seen that acknowledges our female-minded side haha. Let me say that I have three best friends: INFP (male) 4w5 from High School, INFJ (male) 6w5 from an online competitive game and my SO ISFP (female) 6w7. After I met my SO from years of searching (though with all my effort, I know there's still a huge luck factor), I was determined to help put my best friends out there haha. I'm such a meddler, but I do it with good intentions. The INFP has found an amazing ISFP (don't know what her wings are), and they're going strong. They're very old fashioned but it's funny, this rona is taking a toll on them. I'm not laughing, funny is perhaps the wrong word. It is interesting that something like this creates such a struggle. If anything though, it is eye-opening for both parties and it will ultimately strengthen their relationship. They're still going strong. For my INFJ brother, ah man I hope he finds someone who won't manipulate him. I have been trying for years to push him out of his shell, the only reason he ever let me in is because I was one of the few people online that was authentic with him. Ever since we met, we clicked and we've been talking nonstop ever since; it's been so many years.

This block will be more relevant. For my INFJ best friend, I wonder if it would be best for him to seek out an INFJ female. But I feel wrong just thinking about him seeking out a fellow INFJ with a specific Enneatype to boot. Something in my gut tells me we shouldn't be thinking of people only in terms of their type. Of course, this may be obvious to some, though considering the potential benefits of finding a great partner this is such an enticing idea. My grandparents have been married for forty years and they're both INFJs. My grandfather is a 1w2 and though I haven't figured out grandma's type yet, I have reason to believe she is probably a 9w1. When they bicker I just laugh to myself, they are a beautiful couple. Though one huge drawback I've seen is they both let each other slack off in the sensory world. Trying not to sound too harsh, but they have both gotten very lax with the things they eat and have allowed many things around the house to pile up due to not being interested in certain forms of upkeep. So this is one scenario I've considered when talking to my best friend yet there are obviously so many other factors that go into relationships besides Enneatype and MBTI. This truly is an endless conversation.

I absolutely despise those who try and pressure their friends or family into a relationship for something as trivial as "biological clocks". Yes, it exists but that is not the point of a good relationship. If we're lucky, a child is a happy byproduct. People try and force others to have children when that might not be the best idea! What if they aren't emotionally ready? What if they still feel like children themselves? Ugh.


Thank you for the congrats! She is awesome. We definitely have issues but all revolve around the different ways in which we process and communicate. She can definitely be more temperamental. Jeez, just thinking about how she acts when she's angry can give me shivers haha. She can be very impulsive as well and often catches herself acting without thinking. On my end I can seem overly critical always wanting to "solve a problem". I've been told that even with good intentions, while conversing with all of my loved ones I can come off as too cerebral. Usually a comment like that would be an ego-boost, though when you realize you're too damn serious when all your family wants is emotional support it stings. I've learned to show my warmth and get in touch with my Fe. As for her and I, we realized that there is a huge difference in how we communicate and as long as there are few comprises we are fine. She likes to compromise thinking nothing of it until she hates the activity she has compromised for. She typically holds it in until her negativity is bursting. After we isolated some patterns, we realized a couple things:

INFJs are crazy and we do some seriously deep mental dives. Luckily, ISFPs have Ni as their tertiary function and can keep up with our craziness since they're so accepting. The issue is she was forcing herself to talk endlessly when she just wanted a break sometimes. Now she tells me when she's ready to deep dive and we're fine. Of course if something is super important I'll let her know: "Hey, we need to talk at length here, so please set aside some time for this." This is great because she doesn't feel cornered and has time to prepare herself.

Ah, a 6w5 like my best friend. Yep! Just like him! He had some interesting encounters with many folk throughout his younger years and decided he would close off the world. He put it like this: "Mike, I built a huge fence up and just sat behind it for years. If anyone wanted to walk up to it I would talk to them from behind it without much hope for a relationship. But when I met you, you saw the fence and hopped over that shit to gimme a handshake. You're the only person I've ever let in, not even my family knows the things you do. I'm not really ready to let others in yet, but I'm slowly letting down my fence." He works in a grocery store and has been doing his best to exercise Fe. He finds that most people quickly lose interest in many topics he brings up (philosophy, gaming, TV Shows, etc.) and he's looking for those that remain. No luck yet but I know he'll find someone!



Ohhhh! Im giddy from reading this! And you're very welcome! It truly is strange that he's being so reclusive. I definitely have been a recluse for sure, but not so much in relationships. Plus, when I'm gonna ghost I tend to let my loved ones know so they don't get hurt. By now everyone knows what to expect of me.

Hmm. I wonder if my INFJ best friend would act this way? I'll have to ask. This may be a stupid question but are you sure he received the letter? The ball is in his field and he hasn't acted yet, that's strange. I wonder if he's planning something nice or is having trouble working up the courage. Is he an INFJ? Maybe he's currently taking in information about you. I really do hope he received that letter, it is so sweet!

Anyway, I hope you're not beating yourself up over it or anything. I hope you get closure soon! Good luck! :)

Did he receive the letter? Well, I didn't have it sent return receipt so Im not completely sure. As far as being an INFJ, the writing is on the wall and I tend to lean toward him having a lack of courage. Either way, moving on is a must and yes, beat myself up over and over, feeling like a fool now but hey, at least I tried and didn't cower.
Glad you are have a special someone, its the best feeling in the world. Oh, that guy behind the fence, I think I saw him on that sitcom called Home Improvement!
 

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Be patient...When it happens you will most certainly know.
Thank you. I'm sure you are right. Patient is all I've ever really been... or rather, just not expecting any such things out of life like love.
I have had relationships before (LDR ones) and they seemed to come about when I was least expecting it. It's been a long time though since then.
 

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Thank you. I'm sure you are right. Patient is all I've ever really been... or rather, just not expecting any such things out of life like love.
I have had relationships before (LDR ones) and they seemed to come about when I was least expecting it. It's been a long time though since then.
Off topic but your signature is awesome! By any chance is that hexagon pattern based off of the game Super Hexagon?
 
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Off topic but your signature is awesome! By any chance is that hexagon pattern based off of the game Super Hexagon?
:) Thanks! I'm not too sure, I found it while searching for my old hexagon gif but it does remind me of it. (crazy game, the soundtrack is awesome).
 
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After you replied to my post I had to scroll up and see if you'd said anything else prior, and this is so interesting to me. I definitely think the rona has led to me not wanting to go outside as much, and man, being indoors with your SO day in day out is always eye-opening; I'll address that further below.
Oh man, you need not dissect my entire post like that.😂 My Fe is very appreciative and feels like "yay, I found a homie" but my Se has gone into overdrive... So forgive me if I don't go into as much detail and address all but I'm trying not to go completely off topic on this thread.

I reckon it's worth mentioning my half and I don't live together and can't meet atm. Having said that, I'm not sure if spending so much time into each other's space if we lived together would have gone entirely without conflict. We're still people after all.

Yeah, INFJs are androgynous in my opinion because of their functionality combination and leading stack of NiFe. Not necessarily in your face androgynous. It may not come across in the physical appearance but it definitely does in our body language, gestures, overall mannerism of how we talk, behave, the way we think. The more comfortable we feel around someone, the more prominent it is. I think it also depends on our partner's personality as we may assume either a more feminine or masculine role to balance things out. I personally never naturally felt like a lady, the thought even disgusted me when I was a child and was all wild climbing trees and rooftops, lol. I've grown more comfortable into my own femininity with age.

Thanks for sharing some of your friends' story with me. I totally feel for phobic 6s.😕 I have a 6 second in my ennea archetype and boy, it's given me a lot of personal conflict to sort through. One thing I've noticed though, which I also think may be driven by the 9 in my stack, is that the more people push me to do something I'm afraid of, the more I fear or resist it, haha. So let your 6w5 guy be and focus on your own relationship. I think leading by example will be best here. If you and your fiancee have a healthy relationship, in time he'll realise it is not such a 'life & death' matter and he'll lighten up in conversations with other people including women which will lead to naturally attracting someone good. Unfortunately, I believe fear only attracts fear or what you fear. The law of attraction is a b*.😅 So until he looks at love from a fear-mentality, he won't find anyone. He probs doesn't even admit to how afraid he is deep down because you know, ego and especially a 6 likes to keep some coolness factor, like they're above this crap called love. Pfft. Sweethearts. Anyway, great that he works in a more social setting. And he should keep talking about what he likes, the person who likes similar stuff will come as long as he doesn't push them away out of fear. :)

The story about your grandparents melted my heart a little, haha. Yeah, totally true. Don't go by just the typology. My other half and I have had this conversation before because we're both into MBTI and INFJs so it has led to some bias when we struggled to understand each other. Well, it's been slightly easier for me to understand why we differ despite both being INFJs since I'm also into the Enneagram and we're not identical in that department despite that his core is a 5w4. A pretty cool factor is that neither of us are the typical instinctual variant of our ennea-cores. Having said that, a lot more goes into a person: how they were brought up, where, their attachment style, their life experience, their past relationship(s), their love language, their mental health, etc. MBTI definitely helps but isn't a guarantee for a compatible and mature partner as I mentioned in my first post under this thread.

I know that as a younger INFJ I didn't make for a good partner as I didn't know how to communicate my needs and feelings, set boundaries. So I don't blame my failed relationship with the aforementioned ISFP entirely on him. We were both young and stupid, despite that we loved each other very much. Just love doesn't make for a robust relationship. I have a good ISFP friend now. She's much older than me but communication with her is like a breeze, especially since we have similar hobbies and life experiences bringing us closer together.
 

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My opinion

INFJ's feel they are too good to end up on dates, do not believe in casual flings, ONS, always looking for something Long term meaningful Emotional connections, and most importantly they get turned on when you stimulate their intellect.They are like the hot pursuits for many, always on the demand, you need to appeal to their Intellect and connect with their emotions in order for them to pursue you. The more you appear repulsive/mysterious, give subtle signs, the more they will follow you and try to find about you, if they are really interested in You.

I have no regrets being an INFJ, never been on a date till now, as I don't believe in one, nor am I looking for the perfect woman. Going by the statistics and chances of finding a partner, No matter how low the chances are, I don't believe in dates, as I want to connect to their Soul more than their Body. And it is not definitely about standards or being idealistic, it is more about my beliefs, morals and values.

When we know that INFJ's are attractive, and intelligent, we have every reason to believe that an INFJ will look only for the perfect mate, which is Non existent. The sooner they realize there are only perfect relationships, and not perfect Men/Women, would make their life easier, happy and peaceful.
 

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My opinion

INFJ's feel they are too good to end up on dates, do not believe in casual flings, ONS, always looking for something Long term meaningful Emotional connections, and most importantly they get turned on when you stimulate their intellect.They are like the hot pursuits for many, always on the demand, you need to appeal to their Intellect and connect with their emotions in order for them to pursue you. The more you appear repulsive/mysterious, give subtle signs, the more they will follow you and try to find about you, if they are really interested in You.

I have no regrets being an INFJ, never been on a date till now, as I don't believe in one, nor am I looking for the perfect woman. Going by the statistics and chances of finding a partner, No matter how low the chances are, I don't believe in dates, as I want to connect to their Soul more than their Body. And it is not definitely about standards or being idealistic, it is more about my beliefs, morals and values.

When we know that INFJ's are attractive, and intelligent, we have every reason to believe that an INFJ will look only for the perfect mate, which is Non existent. The sooner they realize there are only perfect relationships, and not perfect Men/Women, would make their life easier, happy and peaceful.
So why are some so obsessed with that word 'Date'. Its just a word. Would you feel different if someone said, 'lets go hang out'? What is the difference? Its pretty much the same thing, isn't it? Does the definition of date equal something more significant then just meeting and hanging?? I don't think so and wonder why it does to some people.
 

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"Date" may simply be a word, but the stakes are high, especially with the current generation expectations(at least from 1 of them). I don't know who is obsessed with Date, I am happy as long as I am not.

Getting to know each other, Spending quality time with each other, Understanding each others emotions and Respecting each other - Is what I believe in.

"Meeting and Hanging" need not necessarily achieve what I believe, I can meet a lot of people, and still feel emotionally detached from them, I can be miles away from the person I love, care for, I still feel connected to that person. I need not necessarily need to go on a so called "Date" to feel connected to that person.

It does to some people because some people like me believe that there are more to a relationship than mere "Meeting & Hanging" leading to so called "Dates" to decide on a relationship.

That is why there is a generation gap between what we understand, perceive to be Pure Love, than what is now called "Meeting & Hanging" leading up to dates, No offense to both.
 
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