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Why Judgers and Perceivers Drive Each Other Crazy

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#1 ·
Interesting read, hope it isn't too stereotypical. Let me know what you think.

Why Judgers and Perceivers Drive Each Other Crazy
BySusan StormMarch 11, 2021

Judgers and perceivers have a lot of misconceptions surrounding their tendencies. Some people argue that judgers are judgmental and prudish, while others argue that perceivers are lazy and irresponsible. Both of these misconceptions don’t really have anything to do with the Judging or Perceiving preference but they still manage to work their way through online type communities.

I remember at my MBTI® certification class there was an exercise about Judging/Perceiving and time management. The instructor took us to the hallway outside the classroom and posed a hypothetical scenario.

“You have just been given an important work project and it’s due in ten days.” He motions to the furthest end of the hallway, “stand there if you’d start the project right away.” He motions to a point at the middle of the hallway, “Stand here if you’d start in five days.” He motions to the opposite end of the hallway, “Stand there if you’d start the project on day 10. Pick somewhere along the wall to choose when you’d typically start the project.”

This particular class was attended by predominantly ISTJ personality types. They all moved to the “Start today” section of the hallway. As an INFJ, I stood close to the middle of the hallway. That left one ENFP who hesitantly stepped between me and the “start on day 10” corner of the hallway.”

We heard snickers coming from the STJ corner of the hallway. Several people shook their heads. I glanced over at the ENFP and a crestfallen look came over her face. Later in the certification process, she told me how judged she felt during that moment.

Unfortunately, moments like this are not rare. There are times when many people are judged or mocked for their J/P preference (often without knowing that it has anything to do with a J/P preference).

But What Does Judging or Perceiving Mean?
Judging and Perceiving relate to the ways you orient yourself to the world around you. If you’re a Judging type, you organize the world to support your decision-making process. If you’re an FJ type, you organize the world to support harmony and interpersonal morale. If you’re a TJ type, you organize the world to support efficiency and effectiveness.

If you’re a Judger, these statements would generally apply to you:

  • I like to have things decided
  • I like planning out my future
  • I prefer to have a clear schedule
  • I pay close attention to deadlines
  • I like to focus on one-thing-at-a-time
  • I sometimes focus so much on finishing one project that I miss new information
  • I work methodically so I don’t feel rushed
If you’re a Perceiving type, you organize the world to support your information-gathering process. This means that you like having unstructured time to be spontaneous and make last-minute decisions. If you’re an NP type, you organize the world so that you can easily explore multiple ideas, theories, and possibilities. If you’re an SP personality type, you organize the world so that you can be spontaneous, jump right into action, or respond to life as it happens.

If you’re a perceiver, these statements would generally apply to you:

  • I like having a flexible schedule that I can change at any time
  • I prefer to wait and see before making a decision
  • Generating possibilities and ideas is more fun than finishing them
  • I like leaving things open-ended
  • I enjoy being spontaneous
  • Making decisions can cause me anxiety
  • I like to mix work with play
  • I am energized by an approaching deadline
  • I work in bursts of energy
The Introvert Dilemma
If you’re an introvert, then chances are you relate to both of these preferences quite a bit. That’s because IJ types have a dominant perceiving function (intuition or sensation) while IP types have a dominant judging function (feeling or thinking).

While on the outside IJ types may appear like Judgers, on the inside they relate to many Perceiving tendencies.

While on the outside IP types may appear like Perceivers, on the inside they often relate to many Judger tendencies.


But because the Judging and Perceiving preferences explain how a type interacts with the outer world, the J or P indicator is still relevant.

On the inside, introverted judgers (IxxJ personality types) get in flow by gathering information, generating ideas and impressions, and flexibly looking at many perspectives or memories. Yet in their outer world IJs still feel most comfortable with a clear plan, closure, and a structure and routine. At work, they’re going to be more content if they can focus on one thing at a time and work in a methodical way so that they aren’t rushing to wrap up projects at the last minute.

On the inside, introverted perceivers (IxxP personality types) get in flow by clarifying and deciding what they think, planning out their futures, and focusing on one thing at a time. Yet on the outside, they appreciate a more flexible deadline, working in bursts of energy as their inspiration strikes.

But Why Do Judgers and Perceivers Annoy Each Other?
There are multiple answers to this question. And to be clear, my husband and best friend are both Perceivers and I’m a Judger. So even though we might drive each other crazy sometimes, Judgers and Perceivers can still share beautiful relationships.

Let’s start with one of the most common conflicts:

Judgers want to focus on one thing at a time. Perceivers often move from task to task, mixing work with recreation or play.
In a relationship, a Judger might be hyper-focusing on one task (say….trying to figure out what to make for dinner) when the Perceiver bounds into the kitchen, turns on the television and starts talking about their day. The Judger, completely thrown off by the interruption, feels a flash of anger by the distraction. Rather than being able to focus on one thing (looking through their recipe books) they now feel their attention splitting three ways (recipe books, TV, spouse’s words). Eventually, they slam a recipe book on the table, collapse on the floor, throw their head into their hands, and groan. The perceiver looks at them shocked,

“What’s wrong?!”

“It’s 5:30!” the Judger shouts, gesturing towards the wall clock.

The perceiver, less bothered by schedules, shrugs.

“And?”

“And…It’s DINNER TIME AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M MAKING!”

The perceiver suddenly gets a burst of energy, there’s a problem to solve spontaneously! He jumps up, starts pulling random ingredients out of the refrigerator, and setting them next to the stove.

“What are you doing??” the Judger gasps nervously.

“I can throw something together! I’ve got this. You just take a break.”

“But WHAT are you throwing together? I have a meal plan. Some of those ingredients might be needed for recipes I’m making later in the week.”

The Judger gets up and quickly starts looking at all the ingredients the Perceiver placed on the counter. She shakes her head and puts the ham and cheese back in the refrigerator.

The Perceiver scoffs and shakes his head. “Why won’t you just let me help you? Screw the meal plan. We’ll figure Wednesday out when it’s Wednesday.”

While the particulars of this scenario will vary, this overall pattern tends to repeat itself in many relationships.

Perceivers (especially ExxPs) are skilled at multi-tasking. They can have multiple things going on at the same time, and rather than being drained, they feel a rush of excitement. They now have multiple streams of information flowing into their senses and they can juggle back and forth between the various streams that are most interesting at the moment. They also enjoy acting in the moment, being flexible, and taking life as it comes.

A caveat: There’s a limit even to what Perceivers can handle. As an example, nearly everyone gets overstimulated by crying babies, toddler tantrums, lots of people shouting at each other, or being interrupted in the middle of a high-pressure task that needs to be finished right away. IxxP types are also more bothered by a lot of outside sensory stimulation and interruptions.

Judgers like to start one thing and finish it in one fell swoop, without distractions or interruptions. IxxJ types especially find outside interruptions overwhelming. They like to direct all their energy to the task at hand and they like planning things out in advance (like the weekly meal plan). Splitting their focus can create a lot of stress and anxiety in the Judging type and they often worry that they’ll run out of time or energy.

A caveat: If a Judger has done something many times they can multitask easily. For example, if they have prepared a variety of meals many times, they can prepare them from memory while talking on the phone and the television is on. Judgers also enjoy flexibility during their leisure time when there is no pressure and their to-do list is completed.

How Judgers and Perceivers Feel About Surprises
The surprise is often used as an example of where Perceivers and Judgers differ. Judgers typically like having a plan and following the plan. A surprise can throw them off course and be more of an irritating interruption than a harbinger of joy and elation. For the Perceiver who has a more flexible approach to life, the surprise can be exciting and stimulating! This surprise can give them more new information to take in and this new information could spark new possibilities and opportunities!

In general, this theory is fairly accurate, but, as always, there are some caveats.

If a Judger has their tasks completed and they’re an extrovert, a surprise party might be a really exciting thing for them. If they’re in the “leisure time” segment of their plan then unexpectedly having friends over can be a fun and energizing reprieve. Not so for the introverted judging types – they’re more likely to want to fill their leisure time with solo activities. The same goes for IxxP types, as introverts can get overwhelmed by people and social obligations quickly.

The key being, know the Judger or Perceiver you’re trying to surprise. If you want to anger an IJ type, announce that someone is unexpectedly coming over when the house is a mess and they already had a plan for their day. Even if the IJ likes that person, they’re bound to be shocked and stressed by the sudden change in plans and the need to re-arrange their entire schedule and mental state. If you want to anger an EP type announce that you have every bit of their week scheduled out in advance. Having no room for flexibility and spontaneity is a death sentence for any perceiving type, especially an EP type.

Different Work Styles
Judgers move through life by evaluating situations, setting priorities, and creating structures or rules to accomplish tasks. They typically like to start a project and work on it full swing until it’s finished, or work on it in moderate chunks at a steady rate over the course of several days, knowing they will finish way ahead of the deadline. Being distracted by an unrelated event, conversation, or possibility can send them into a stress response quickly (as we explored in the dinner-time scenario).

Perceivers move through life by absorbing information, looking for possibilities, and noticing any interesting pathways they’d like to explore. They like their life to feel open and boundless, without a lot of rules or guidelines. When they start a project they may feel inspired and finish the entire task in one burst of energy, or they may work for five minutes, go for a walk, talk to a friend, or play a game waiting for more inspiration or information to come to them. Distractions can be a welcome reprieve for the Perceiver, giving them the opportunity to step off one path and explore a new one.

When Judgers and Perceivers work together, in a business setting or in a family setting, they can butt heads over these different work styles.

I’ll use an example from my own life:

I work from home running Psychology Junkie while my husband attends film school. When I work, I put on my headphones, block out all surrounding sensory information, and hyper-focus on one project at a time. At the moment, I’m trying to focus all my energy on writing this article. If my husband, an ESTP, is working with me, he’ll work in little micro-bursts of inspiration, occasionally turning to me to tell me about something interesting. I’ll look up from my screen and see him looking at me with his lips moving, but I can’t hear him because I’m listening to blaring loud opera or instrumental music. I realize I have to disengage from my task and hear his interesting story. I look at the clock on the wall, realizing my “work segment” of the day is nearing an end and I don’t have a lot of time. Soon I will have to be in “mom segment” and switch my focus to that realm entirely.

Do I think my husband is trying to be annoying? No. Does he think I’m being a stick in the mud? Maybe. But this shows one of the frustrations that Judgers (particularly IxxJs) face when they’re trying to work alongside Perceivers (particularly ExxPs).

Perceivers generally need to feel a sense of inspiration in order to do their best work. Judgers tend to follow their schedule and task list regardless of the level of inspiration. Both of these tendencies can have downsides and upsides. The perceiver may procrastinate on a task for far too long or the Judger might hurry up and finish a task in a lackluster way because they lacked inspiration.

Does this mean Judgers Never Explore and Perceivers Never Create Structure?
Absolutely not. As a Judger, I enjoy open-ended mental wandering during my scheduled “leisure time.” I arrange my life in blocks, with mental frameworks I need to be in during each block. During “mom block” I focus fully on being there for my children and training them/tending to their needs, during “work block” I am all about work and want zero input from another side of my life, and during “leisure block” I let myself relax and explore many different ideas, possibilities, or theories. But my time blocks generally don’t mix. If I have to mix them, I feel stressed and mentally scattered.

Your average perceiver doesn’t typically organize their days in these timed “blocks.” They might mix “mom block” with “work block” and a little “leisure block” thrown in.

Just like the keys of a piano, the Judger’s life has a predictable order and structure that they follow in order to simplify things and avoid stress. A Perceiver’s life is more like a jazz band, following inspiration and improvising based on new information.

Perceivers will have moments where they structure their lives as well. My ESTP husband served in the military for eleven years and had to enforce structure, rules, and guidelines during his time there. He knew that a repeatable structure was the most efficient way for him and his fellow sergeants and airmen to accomplish the tasks they needed to accomplish at particular times. At the same time, he was always ready to improvise if needed and wouldn’t have been stressed if he’d had to ditch the structure because a surprise task came up. In fact, he thrived whenever he could create fun, novel ways to accomplish tasks with his team rather than doing things “by the book.”

How Judgers Can Understand Perceivers:
  • Try not to schedule the majority of their time for them unless you are in a supervisory position.
  • If you must have a schedule, make sure you’re giving them ample unstructured time within that.
  • Realize that it is often their style to mix work with play and sprint to a finish at the last minute when they have a task to accomplish
  • Realize that there are benefits and strengths of a perceiving preference. When someone stays open to new information longer, they often discover creative flourishes and features that can improve a project or experience.
  • Practice spontaneity. It can feel a little unsettling at first, but you might find out you really enjoy some of the experiences you discover along the way!
How Perceivers Can Understand Judgers:
  • If they have a busy schedule, try not to interrupt them with surprise events or activities that will throw them off.
  • Realize that they will still sometimes enjoy spontaneity and surprises. Take some time to ask them what kind of surprises they enjoy and get a clearer idea of the kinds of interruptions they enjoy or dislike.
  • Realize that there are benefits and strengths in a judging preference. When someone prioritizes tasks and works on them one-at-a-time, they can stay organized and ahead of schedule easily.
  • Try to show up on time for important events to show that you care. If you can’t be there on time, try to give them a heads up.
What Are Your Thoughts?
Do you have any tips for fellow Judgers or Perceivers? Let us know in the comments.

 
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#2 ·
Pretty good actually. Hmm.
 
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#3 ·
Did you note that IxxJ types can somewhat understand the P perspective and IxxP types can somewhat understand the J perspective?

While on the outside IJ types may appear like Judgers, on the inside they relate to many Perceiving tendencies.

While on the outside IP types may appear like Perceivers, on the inside they often relate to many Judger tendencies.
 
#4 ·
Yep which tracks. I like the part about- we IxxJs like surprises. You know, if everything is done and the schedule is clear.
🙄
 
#5 ·
My biggest issue with a few P types I know is when they are perpetually late to everythinng. You'll be waiting for them to arrive at your house for an evening, for 1 1/2 hours! That is taking the p*ss. Now I am not a strong J so I can cope with people not being on time to the minute, but that is just too long and too rude.
 
#33 ·
Yeah, I am a P-type (I think) but I am like Jimmy Hoffa when it comes to being on time for an appt. If your late, you're saying something. It shows a lack of respect for the other party and their precious time. It is offensive. If your late, you are in effect saying, "my time is worth more than yours", or "I am more important than you are". It is selfish and immature.

I am with the J's on this — being laid back and or whatever is no excuse for not keeping your commitments.
 
#8 ·
I've always scored INT high with a low J. It made me wonder if I was an INTP. I've always scored INTJ but it did make me wonder (probably due to a fair few mistypes telling me what I should and should not be thinking like). After spending time with INTPs I realised I'm nowhere near Ti. Some of my favourite people are peceivers.

I'm not so much fussed by a lot of "P" tendencies though. I'm usually on time and having someone just starting to get ready when I'm about to leave is a pain. I do procrastinate, I can focus on multiple things at once but I do like some notice so I can plan for things before a deadline and I enjoy the journey rather than a finished product. I HATE rushing things at the end of something.
 
#10 ·
Can confirm... I related to this quite a bit:

I work from home running Psychology Junkie while my husband attends film school. When I work, I put on my headphones, block out all surrounding sensory information, and hyper-focus on one project at a time. At the moment, I’m trying to focus all my energy on writing this article. If my husband, an ESTP, is working with me, he’ll work in little micro-bursts of inspiration, occasionally turning to me to tell me about something interesting. I’ll look up from my screen and see him looking at me with his lips moving, but I can’t hear him because I’m listening to blaring loud opera or instrumental music. I realize I have to disengage from my task and hear his interesting story. I look at the clock on the wall, realizing my “work segment” of the day is nearing an end and I don’t have a lot of time. Soon I will have to be in “mom segment” and switch my focus to that realm entirely.

Do I think my husband is trying to be annoying? No. Does he think I’m being a stick in the mud? Maybe. But this shows one of the frustrations that Judgers (particularly IxxJs) face when they’re trying to work alongside Perceivers (particularly ExxPs).

Perceivers generally need to feel a sense of inspiration in order to do their best work. Judgers tend to follow their schedule and task list regardless of the level of inspiration. Both of these tendencies can have downsides and upsides. The perceiver may procrastinate on a task for far too long or the Judger might hurry up and finish a task in a lackluster way because they lacked inspiration.
Also working with an EP as an IJ, it gets like this. I've sort of given up on schedules because they will always be broken. Always. There is some new thing EP has thought about, and the only important thing is the new thing. And then the last minute thing, because the new thing was so shiny the urgent thing took a backseat until urgent thing became critical thing. Yet, it's not like I'm so much better - I end up feeling kind of like the 'bad guy' for imposing too many limitations, agendas, and singular focus that take the joy out of the work for EP - yet their "do whatever inspires in the moment" strategy sort of takes the wind out of my sails, too.

So it goes. It ends up that just being open to the other person's preferred way of doing things, and communicating frequently about what is needed and why to do our best work, goes a long way.
 
#18 ·
I guess reality is a hard mistress, and sophistry is an easy fallback.
Well, more serious answer would be that this is not about how well you do something, if that is how you framed this, but about what you prefer.

And functions are arranged in the way such that if you are not leading with perceiving function, then you necessarily have to lead with judging function. (if you don't prefer J, then you prefer P)
And yes, if there is no prominent dominance, then its case of "undifferentiation" within such theory, not sure what you mean by "hand waving", it is how it chose to describe such configuration.
 
#19 ·
Well, more serious answer would be that this is not about how well you do something, if that is how you framed this, but about what you prefer.

And functions are arranged in the way such that if you are not leading with perceiving function, then you necessarily have to lead with judging function. (if you don't prefer J, then you prefer P)
And yes, if there is no prominent dominance, then its case of "undifferentiation" within such theory, not sure what you mean by "hand waving", it is how it chose to describe such configuration.
Fair enough. I find, by context, that my preference changes and while attempting to quantify it numerically there isn't (so far) a clear inclination one way or another across my life. If this changes, I'm more than open to it.

Investigations are ongoing. Although if I'm not careful, Reckful will be along to tell me how wrong I am.
 
#20 ·
Very fascinating, the cooking one is a interesting example as I live with a INFJ and a ENFP ( I myself a INFP). Me and my ENFP friend are relatively spontaneous with cooking and just ask and do whatever food works. Basically we're pretty chilled and make somewhat basic foods that are simple but nutritious. We also help each other out whenver we make food.
When my INFJ housemate cooks, they make very elaborate meals and plan it on specific days and the do it silently without much communication and never ask for help. They seem quite stressed if we spontaneously just decide to make something else thatwasn't on their plan.

Ithink we reached a compromise in the end but it was very interesting to see.
 
#23 ·
Hmm. IRl IDK most people's types so this kind of talk is mostly abstract to me. I tend to blame a certain type of common workplace struggle on 's types' or 'p people' more or less arbitrarily.

One thing that has always gotten the blankface from me is this thing of offering 'likes schedule' as some kind of easy-base instant key to identifying a judger. TBH most of this article seems to be simply that. 'judgers like to schedule, perceivers be all 'whee!' /endoftopic'. For one thing, I never felt like that represents me. And for another, even to the extent that it's true it doesn't feel to me like it really gets to the root.

That could be because I'm a particular subtype of judger, of course. I have significant and recurring struggles with certain teammates; in fact it's recurring right now. Not once [at least as I recall] has that struggle ever been about 'time'. The judgers-be-all-clock-fascists thing has alwYs felt to me like it misstates and undermines what the real issue is.
 
#31 ·
Hmm. IRl IDK most people's types so this kind of talk is mostly abstract to me. I tend to blame a certain type of common workplace struggle on 's types' or 'p people' more or less arbitrarily.

One thing that has always gotten the blankface from me is this thing of offering 'likes schedule' as some kind of easy-base instant key to identifying a judger. TBH most of this article seems to be simply that. 'judgers like to schedule, perceivers be all 'whee!' /endoftopic'. For one thing, I never felt like that represents me. And for another, even to the extent that it's true it doesn't feel to me like it really gets to the root.

That could be because I'm a particular subtype of judger, of course. I have significant and recurring struggles with certain teammates; in fact it's recurring right now. Not once [at least as I recall] has that struggle ever been about 'time'. The judgers-be-all-clock-fascists thing has alwYs felt to me like it misstates and undermines what the real issue is.
For me it is helpful to locate stress points that I might otherwise misattribute to another factor that is less useful. The shoe fits, so I wear it.

No one is “the same” over all contexts and lifespan in terms of behavior, but I sort of look at it like taking an average for what behavior tends to be the most disruptive/affecting in my day to day life, and how I tend to approach different circumstances before my experiential “wisdom” has a chance to make an impact within the different contexts.

The impulse towards rigidity and order, and subsequent fear/fascination/preoccupation with being “thwarted” by outer chaos, is a consistent undercurrent.
 
#26 ·
@Worriedfunction
When you say contradict, do you mean I contradict in what I say about myself? Or in behavior?
What you say with your behavior, mostly. I didn't read you thoroughly, though.

I see confidence as based on either an external system of approval or a bloody-minded internal system based in nothing but emotional content. Consistency in that area is luck-of-the-draw and based on what genetic material you spawned from.
Don't you find how such perspective harmoniously aligns with the hypothesis of you being a feeling type?
I view confidence as one of the many tools in my box, which can be fueled and oriented with all sorts of things potentially, not only via isolated emotion, blind belief, or someone else's approval.
The quality of genes may surely contribute to how efficiently such tool will be utilized, but so can many other factors.
 
#28 ·
@Worriedfunction

What you say with your behavior, mostly. I didn't read you thoroughly, though.


Don't you find how such perspective harmoniously aligns with the hypothesis of you being a feeling type?
I view confidence as one of the many tools in my box, which can be fueled and oriented with all sorts of things potentially, not only via isolated emotion, blind belief, or someone else's approval.
The quality of genes may surely contribute to how efficiently such tool will be utilized, but so can many other factors.
In answer to the question: since all decisions have a basis in emotion in order to create a hierarchy of values, no. But I have no problem with being a feeling type. I don't see how confidence can be a tool when it appears to be an a priori assessment in phenomenological experiences, have you got some examples?

For example, confidence is known when seen and experienced, but the science of where it comes from is muddy at best and nearly all explanations fall back on it as a belief system with it's root in emotions.
 
#27 ·
I don't know about that.
Perceivers don't drive me crazy, and I don't seem to drive my perceiver friends crazy either.
They seem to appreciate the structure I give, while I appreciate that they remind me to relax and enjoy the present.

That being said, rigid control-freaks and living messes drive everyone crazy, even their fellow control-freaks, their fellow living messes, or themselves.
 
#29 ·
@Worriedfunction
have you got some examples?
Resistance to stress/failures generally, gains in creativity (as was shown by some studies, but I don't have links around me), protection from undesired external or internal emotional influence.
I don't see how it being a priory assessment has to necessarily be a problem, confidence can serve like attitude without distorting resulting judgments when employed carefully.
It can be affected by non-emotional content, where the strength of the influence would at some levels turn it into a basic preliminary anticipation/expectation about some properties of an object.

since all decisions have a basis in emotion
Not necessarily. Or, even if they do, that won't be a useful way of interpreting at things. We would require another set of words to differentiate primordial psychical drives from immediate feelings. And from "complex" non-immediate emotions of anticipations of emotions.
But I do agree that every thinking/decision necessarily relies on some set of a priori assumptions/beliefs.
 
#30 ·
@Worriedfunction

Resistance to stress/failures generally, gains in creativity (as was shown by some studies, but I don't have links around me), protection from undesired external or internal emotional influence.
I don't see how it being a priory assessment has to necessarily be a problem, confidence can serve like attitude without distorting resulting judgments when employed carefully.
It can be affected by non-emotional content, where the strength of the influence would at some levels turn it into a basic preliminary anticipation/expectation about some properties of an object.
Interesting way of looking at it, however, it's difficult for me to operate from a perspective of imagination of 'what might be' as I tend to default to 'only what I already know'. This isn't great for growth, so I tend to rely on experience, and my experience hasn't shown me anything that would allow me to perceive your example. I do acknowledge that your experience may be completely different, though. So most people I've known who were confident, seemed to be so either on an immaterial basis that couldn't be quantified, just some vague sense of 'rightness' in their conception of their own actions. Or they had an attachment to an external sense of achievement, usually through commonly-held forms of status.

I just find it hard to see confidence as anything but a deeply internal motivation, which relates to your point about primordial psychical drives, but how one arrives at confidence I have no idea. It's like a cat trying to explain why it chases movement.

Not necessarily. Or, even if they do, that won't be a useful way of interpreting at things. We would require another set of words to differentiate primordial psychical drives from immediate feelings. And from "complex" non-immediate emotions of anticipations of emotions.
But I do agree that every thinking/decision necessarily relies on some set of a priori assumptions/beliefs.
In terms of what is useful, can it ever be synonymous with truth?

I do actually understand that emotions, unless confronted, can be an unending source of misery and that you don't necessarily solve emotional issues by indulging them.
 
#35 ·
@Worriedfunction
as anything but a deeply internal motivation
I wouldn't describe a helpful sort of confidence as "deep", because, in my view, it has to be specialized, shaped by the object to an extent.
It would work similar if not equal to motivations, manifesting your belief on an emotional level that it would make sense to invest more of your resources into some endeavor, stimulating you effectively.
Attachment to an external sense of achievement, simply by being "attachment" already makes confidence "informed" in a way or sets the foundation for it.

How would one arrive at this confidence? Not directly.
Through self-evaluation, for example.
If it is an activity in relation to which confidence needs to be built, you might ascertain your average levels of performance in it. Or how such performance progresses over time.
Or may progress over time if you influence in a way some of its factors. Tap into similar experiences and related confidence levels and convert them to your case.
Afterwards, once you manage to collect enough material, you will necessarily arrive at some rough general estimation of your relevant qualities, or will see the outline of the path to develop satisfactory levels for them.
The emotional component of such generic estimation that transcends individual instances of activity in question is what will constitute your confidence, for better or worse.
Confidence can be low as well, and this may still be useful.

In terms of what is useful, can it ever be synonymous with truth?
Rarely. The utility is shaped by the definition of truth but isn't equal to it, I think, as it also concerns itself with application.
Truth is more like end in itself. As it is the case with isolated application of Thinking in the way Jung described it.
In our case specifically, the reductionist approach would be best viewed as just descent within a multi-leveled structure of "truth".
Indeed, our mind may be composed of excitations within a set of quantum fields, but such a level of discourse would move us no closer to understanding how the mind works.
 
#38 ·
I don't agree with this, I don't plan out my future because I'm Ti dominant, most INTPs seem like eternal seekers/searchers in fact. They're trying to transpose J tendencies onto the "internal" world of IxxPs and it just doesn't make sense, it's just plain contradictory. In fact IxxP types seem to have a particularly hard time with structuring their lives even compared to ExxPs.

Judging and Perceiving are heavily correlated with trait Conscientiousness, but this is completely independent of introversion/extroversion. I think that most in this thread agree with this article is a sign of confirmation bias, many are interpreting this to fit with the commonly excepted understanding of cognitive functions. I personally don't feel externally or internally Judging and I don't observe this split in others either, most who are organized externally are internally organized.
 
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#39 ·
I dont' agree with this, I don't plan out my future because I'm Ti dominant, most INTPs seem like eternal seekers/searchers in fact. They're trying to transpose J tendencies into the "internal" world of IxxPs and it just doesn't make sense, it's just plain contradictory. In fact IxxP types seem to have a particularly hard time with structuring their lives even compared to ExxPs.

Judging and Perceiving are heavily correlated with trait Conscientiousness, but this is completely independent of introversion/extroversion. I think that most in this thread agree with this article is a sign of confirmation bias, many are interpreting this to fit with the commonly excepted understanding of cognitive functions. I personally don't feel externally or internally Judging and I don't observe this split in others either, most who are organized externally are internally organized.
I accept your perspective as equally valid as mine. This does not mean I have to always agree with your perspective, nor you with mine. We should be able to clearly articulate those differences and strive to make them understandable to those with whom we disagree.

I think that's what has to happen for us to bridge the gaps between P or J, E or I, or T, or F, or N or S. We just have to be able to acknowledge the validity of perspectives that are different from our own, even if we don't agree with them. Then we can construct a model of understanding that allows both perspectives to be acknowledged and a new level of understanding can be achieved.
 
#40 ·
I am undoubtedly a Perceiver from these two checklists, but the older I get I sympathize with Judgers. I guess that fits with me being an IP type. I think there's a line between being irresponsible and preferring spontaneity and freedom. I make tentative schedules and itineraries sometimes, but keep them flexible and allow for different possibilities that may arise. Then we can just come up with an alternative. However, someone being consistently late so that the entire schedule gets thrown out the window I find irritating. To me that demonstrates immaturity and a lack of respect for the other people involved and their time. I don't like to feel rushed, so when I have the ability I always make sure I have the time I need to do something, which becomes important when you don't start right away like the ISTJs.
 
#41 ·
almost my whole family is J and I’m a strong P. They drive me nuts....and it’s bc of the J. ( they are mostly all extrovert as well.)

like my dad ( ESTJ)when I was young and we all ( family) went camping or to the beach for the weekend, he has to planned out our whole day even what we will eat for each meal. And he will go over it..over and over. And I’m like who cares what we our going to eat, just pack the basics, sandwich material, some fruit, and the rest we can eat out ( part of the fun when you go somewhere new) and there are stores at the beach. There is six of us and half our car is pack with food bc he is obsessed with planning and food.
i just bring my own money and get what I want once I get there. it drives me nuts and he will keep nagging at me to help him...like how do I know what I want to eat 3 days from now at lunch or dinnertime...god, i don’t know and then he gets mad at me bc Im annoyed with him and he thinks I’m just being a jerk, but I really can’t stand this. It’s pointless. And he is just relentless.

my mom (ENFJ) is a true ppl charmer, loves being around others, always going to events especially family stuff. i on the other hand hates going to events. It’s not that I dont care about my family and don’t support them, but going to things like a kindergarten graduation ...ls, like, no way. okay I didn’t even go to MY own high school graduation. Every week she tries to guilt me into coming to some torturous event, well some things would be fun. Not only that but she wants me to commit to these things like a month in advance. Even if it is something I would like, I still don’t know how my mood will be around that time/day. But she needs to know NOW. Theres been too many times where I committed myself but comes that day, I really just didn’t feel like it but bc I’m said I would I went anyways, and was so miserable. Now I say no to everything which drives her nuts And like my dad she thinks I’m being a jerk. But i told her if it is very very very important to her, I will go, of course she seem to think everything is important.

Even tho, my P is high like 78%, I’m rarely late. Of course, I ve learned not to obligate myself. So, I don’t have many appointments to be late for. if My friends want to see me, just call me at least a day in advanced ( intorvert here) and just come by, see I can’t be late. I actually have I very good sense of time, and I don’t know how. i don’t even need an alarm clock to wake me up. tho I hate waking up.
 
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#48 ·
Not only that but she wants me to commit to these things like a month in advance. Even if it is something I would like, I still don’t know how my mood will be around that time/day. But she needs to know NOW.
This is painfully relatable 😆 My mom is a strong J (probably ISXJ) and I am a strong P (I know MBTI isn't by letter but I scored like an 85-90% for P), and she has a mindset of "I need to start this now - I need to make a structured plan for what I'm going to do today." She also likes to constantly ask people stuff like "When are you going to start this? Can't you start it now? You're going to run out of time later!" and "Can't you make a decision quickly?"

On the other hand, I'm more of the person to say, "I'll do something when I feel like it, I'll get it done in the end, just not now," and "I can't make a firm decision now, I might change my mind later, I need to keep my options open!" I've always found my mom to be extremely pushy because of this and our ideals have always clashed a lot. I would get into a lot of heated arguments with my mom when I was younger lol, and I think a lot of them revolved around my strong Se versus her strong Si. She's always seen me as lazy, reckless, and hedonistic (which I will admit, all three of those are true to an extent), and I've always seen her as someone who is overly paranoid and can't put work aside for a little enjoyment in life.
 
#43 ·
I can tell who the judgers and perceivers are in my dance class. The judgers try to properly execute the movement, ask questions to clear up any inconsistencies, and practice at home so they come to the next class being able to do the movement well. Not so the perceivers! GENERALLY SPEAKING. They generally do the movement 'however they think it should be done/or however they want to do it (I'll quote one ESFP/ISFP girl in the class who said 'I just do whatever I want'), and they're not as careful about correcting their mistakes. And they come to class unpracticed. Drives me nuts!

The perceivers (particularly the Esfps in the group) are very good at taking the spotlight and doing spontaneous movements when it calls for it, though.
 
#46 ·
I can tell who the judgers and perceivers are in my dance class. The judgers try to properly execute the movement, ask questions to clear up any inconsistencies, and practice at home so they come to the next class being able to do the movement well. Not so the perceivers! GENERALLY SPEAKING. They generally do the movement 'however they think it should be done/or however they want to do it (I'll quote one ESFP/ISFP girl in the class who said 'I just do whatever I want'), and they're not as careful about correcting their mistakes. And they come to class unpracticed. Drives me nuts!

The perceivers (particularly the Esfps in the group) are very good at taking the spotlight and doing spontaneous movements when it calls for it, though.
I’m an entp and I love to dance spontaneously, the very idea of there being a dance routine make me throw up a little 😂
 
#44 ·
As a little 'j' who won't necessarily start a project right away but have the end goal and deadline in mind, who also prefers openness and flexibility from start to finish but with generalized benchmarks, a little of both is fine with me. Also, prioritization will have the greatest impact since it's rare that people have only one thing on the go.
 
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