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The general topic I am going to write about here is quite wide, so I will try to make my points via numerous sub-points, ideas and examples. Have patience with me :laughing:

So as many Star Trek fans I was dismayed when first Star Trek movie by Abrams came out. It pretty much realised my worst fears about direction of the whole brand. Second movie was bad enough to make me actually leave cinema around 25th minute... Yet I still had some hopes for the TV show given that it was set in "non-pararell" universe and some different people were gonna work on it.

Judging from first two episodes, once more my worst expectations became reality.

Before someone bashes me as nostalgic stuck in past and arguing that many TOS fans hated TNG at first too. My problem with new Star Trek (both movies and what I saw of series so far) is that it is quite frankly stupid - generic action flick trying too hard to be cool stripped of everything that made Star Trek actually Star Trek.

ST was always slower paced, contemplative show. Best episodes of TNG for example were those without single shot fired - Measure of Man, I Borg, Drumhead, Who Watches the Watchers, Darmok, Inner Light etc. - you get the idea. That is what made ST great. Let's face it - it wasn't very good as science fiction. Using SF backdrop to explore complex philosophical, moral, political and simply human issues is what made it amazing and worth watching.

With everything that made Star Trek great washed away to prostitute itself to as wide target audience as possible we get very generic and bland thing that could as well be named "Space Rockets of Death" or something...

It made me think what makes great shows really great as opposed to soulless generic product like this. One example I would like to mention is anime called "Planetes" - if you can at least tolerate anime and like Sci-Fi and strong personal stories, this is one to watch. As I was rewatching some episodes just this weekend I again realised how well made it is. Not only there are both very strong personal stories addressing very universal and relevant topic of human isolation and broader socio-political themes. It also gets science part of sci-fi just right. While most so called "Sci-Fi’s" these days manage to get even basic Newtonian inertia laws spectacularly wrong not to mention stuff like missing light lag and so on Planetes uses realities of physics and space travel to actually build more powerful stories - from dangers of orbital debris to cosmic ray caused cancer that anime manages to actually build on good science to make great story rather than using "fiction" part to justify stupidity or just plain laziness of writers.

Seriously watching Planetes not only made me aware of what it does great, it also made me see what new Star Trek and actually majority of contemporary mainstream does wrong.


So I am getting to my main point. It is not just new Star Trek. Whole contemporary mainstream keeps producing mostly bland and generic stuff. The more movies and shows I see, the more music I hear this is conclusion I cannot avoid. If we compare recent most popular sitcoms - "Big Bang Theory" and "How I met your Mother" that got REALLY, REALLY, REALLY awful after first seasons and compare it to shows like Frasier that managed to remain fairly fresh and funny for frickin' 11 seasons. Even with pop music - comparing even popular danceable songs - Let's say Nena's 99 luftballons (which beyond upbeat catchy tune has pretty cool lyrics satirizing cold war) with song that I can pretty much hear wherever I go these days "Charli XCX - Break The Rules" (had to google it, sadly lyrics get stuck in your head :-D ) I cannot help but see the trend of stuff getting dumbed down and shallower.

Before hypothethizing about what exactly is wrong. I am going to address two points people are likely to make:

A - I am not saying that every single thing used to be great and now everything sucks. I am arguing that there is observable downward trend.

B - I am well aware there is plenty of great culture these days. I scour bandcamp regularly, keep up with more obscure movies, I support stuff on kickstarter etc. I am talking here about mainstream. For example even if you didn't particularly like Rolling Stones in 70s you were bound to hear about them and have heard few hits. I am talking about this kind of mainstream.

So what is wrong? I think it boils down to simple problem. Producers and makers are no longer willing to take the risks. Loss aversion has become so great in entertainment industry that rather than taking risk on new, interesting concepts they seem to be using the same universal recipe for success. So we get yet another comic superhero movie, yet another wannabee supercool space thing with lens flares, yet another badly written "strong female character". yet another "millennial trying oh so hard to be ironic". It gets old and annoying very quickly. Basically lately I feel like I am watching same stuff over and over with different brands slapped on it.

But if you want to make something genuinely great you just gotta take risks. You never know how people will react to something new and even weird. And they might surprise you. Rocky Horror Picture show wasn't successful at all at first. Exile on The Main Street was thought needlessly bloated as double LP by many.

Few more examples to prove the point:

Planescape: Torment - The game features ungodly amount of text to read and true achievements in game is getting to specific dialog rather than beating some monster or whatnot

Falco - Jeanny : Song is possibly about abduction and rape of underage girl (there is some discussion over that, let's agree at very least it is about girl that is away from home with someone who doesn't mean well with her). Exploring some very dark and uncomfortable topics it caught heat at the time but became hit anyway.

Clerks - Kevin Smith's first movie was black and white talking comedy about two convenience store workers. Hilarious though...

Original star trek after all in it's time featured first interracial kiss and exemplified stupidity of racism in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" - quite controversial for 60s

I could go on with dozens examples, but you get the idea and this post is already too long. The point in the nutshell is this - Creators of entertainment and culture need to actually take risks with new ideas to make something worth remembering. Today mainstream culture seems to be producing constant stream of unified soul-less crap in increasing rate.

With so broad idea it was hard to make this at least somewhat concise and coherent. If you read up to here I thank you and I will welcome any kind of discussion :wink:
 

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The problem isn't mainstream really, it's the business model. I could write a five page essay on the flaws of the movie industry, distribution models, and marketing. Or, alternatively, I could give an entire speech about it.

You can publish innovative stuff, but getting it out to enough of an audience to be profitable enough to fund future films (and earn a living) is very difficult these days.
 

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I too saw the 1st 2 episodes of STD
I was quiet pleased with the special effects
not the direction of the plot, for fuck sake the entire season at war with the Klingons
no, just fucking no
and the Chinese captain who could barely speak English
Michael- a transgender half Vulcan/human:laughing:
da fuq

anyhoo, Hollywood is no longer creating art
it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
if they can't make a profit on opening weekend than it's not worth their effort
the upside is that many indie movie makers are putting out quality movies
net flix and amazon have many of them
main stream holly wood sucks Kaitlyn jenners cock
holly wood and modern music doesn't make movies/music anymore
they mass produce them
 

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First two episodes had me on the fence;

 

Michael was really annoying. Who tries to take a ship by force/mutiny then when the captain shows up try and plead with her? Shortest mutiny ever. Agree that I also don't care for Star Trek when it's 24/7 war. I really liked DS9 but it's hard to slog through that war. Too many dutch angles; dialogue was way too CSI-like (everybody has to be instant one-liner quip machines when they aren't monologuing exposition). The bridge even seemed CSI-like (or maybe NCIS I dunno I don't really watch those shows). A little too close to an Abrams movie.


The third episode was better: Michael obviously got a little bit of humility; there was some interesting sci-fi involved. I was surprised by how much gore they showed. I'll keep giving the series a chance for now.
 

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The first and second Abrahms' reboot movies were good. The third one was terrible with many plot holes.

As far as Discovery is concerned, for a postmodern, gritty interpretation, it works and I continue to watch it, even though I'm tired of postmodernism and all its cynicism and individual focus. But I was hoping for more hope and wonder, full of universal principles of modernism. That's what I loved about NextGen and Voyageur.
 

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I'm "boycotting" Discovery. Why do we need another bland prequel when lots of fans have written great concepts for series set in the future?
I've never watched NuTrek (Abrams) either. I sincerely hope the franchise dies so that we can remember the glory of TOS/TNG/DS-9 (+VOY/ENT) and the word Star Trek won't be associated with NuTrek.
 

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I'm in the boycott camp as well. A lot of people above have already mimicked my thoughts so I won't repeat it. But Star Trek and darkness simply do not mix well. I hate that they've drenched the innate optimism it evoked. It's not a problem with everything else --- there's plenty of room for having dark shows, but there's no reason to alter Star Trek.
 

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The Expanse is good! Not sure if you noticed but Discovery has copied its main theme, that of a bio-agent.
I've never watched Discovery, so I wouldn't know.

Is it the mysterious bio-agent that gave the Klingons bumpy heads?
Also, are they messing up the timeline again? Because in TOS, the Federation didn't know all that much about the Klingons. If there had been a major war with them, Kirk would have known.

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I've never watched Discovery, so I wouldn't know.

Is it the mysterious bio-agent that gave the Klingons bumpy heads?
Also, are they messing up the timeline again? Because in TOS, the Federation didn't know all that much about the Klingons. If there had been a major war with them, Kirk would have known.

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I don't want to spoil it for you. If you enjoyed The Expanse, you might enjoy Discovery. It's well done for what it is, even though it doesn't follow the ST narrative. It's certainly high production with good CGI.
 

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I don't want to spoil it for you. If you enjoyed The Expanse, you might enjoy Discovery. It's well done for what it is, even though it doesn't follow the ST narrative. It's certainly high production with good CGI.
I'm never ever going to watch it anyway, so you wouldn't be spoiling it for me.
Good CGI in itself doesn't do much for me unless the show has a very distinctive style, like the Expanse does.
Sorry to be so narrow-minded, but I don't normally like prequels at all. Plus, I want my Star Trek to be Star Trek. There are lots of other non-Star Trek sci fi shows that I've never even seen. So I'll go for those if I want something new.
:(

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I've never watched Discovery, so I wouldn't know.

Is it the mysterious bio-agent that gave the Klingons bumpy heads?
Also, are they messing up the timeline again? Because in TOS, the Federation didn't know all that much about the Klingons. If there had been a major war with them, Kirk would have known.

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They're calling it part of the Prime timeline, but that's a lie. This is a full reboot but they're not calling it that. Not even confident enough in their property to tell us the truth.

I don't want to spoil it for you. If you enjoyed The Expanse, you might enjoy Discovery. It's well done for what it is, even though it doesn't follow the ST narrative. It's certainly high production with good CGI.
I tried Expanse for a season, but I couldn't get into it in the second. I don't know why but there was something missing ...

For my current very important sci-fi needs, I've had to suck it up and start watching anime. There's some good stories there, but nothing quite like Star Trek.
 

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@Jawz maybe it's the mystery that's missing? But I would be careful not to jump to conclusions. E.g. what about that guy who invented the 20G drive... Eppstein or something?
Could he have turned into the proto-molecule somehow by catapulting himself into FTL? Or was he picked up by an alien civilization just before he died and they learned about humans and sent the proto-molecule?

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I don't mean to belabor the point, but if you haven't (and you want to) try this series: Start at episode 3. You miss a couple short-term characters, but it's worth it.
 

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I'm in the boycott camp as well. A lot of people above have already mimicked my thoughts so I won't repeat it. But Star Trek and darkness simply do not mix well. I hate that they've drenched the innate optimism it evoked. It's not a problem with everything else --- there's plenty of room for having dark shows, but there's no reason to alter Star Trek.
I agree
they could have given this show another name not affiliated with gene Roddenberry and it would have done better
this show has nothing in common with Star Trek and it's spin offs
personally I find it offensive and disrespectful to all Trekkies to pervert the series
 

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@Jawz maybe it's the mystery that's missing? But I would be careful not to jump to conclusions. E.g. what about that guy who invented the 20G drive... Eppstein or something?
Could he have turned into the proto-molecule somehow by catapulting himself into FTL? Or was he picked up by an alien civilization just before he died and they learned about humans and sent the proto-molecule?

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I don't quite know what you're talking about (since I haven't seen the show). I've seen clips, and I've read things about the story, the tech, the attitudes. The clips I've seen, the acting, the overall aesthetic of the show is like a blatant attempt to try to do the dark and grimy space version of Walking dead and Game of Thrones (and just other successful shows of this generation. It doesn't work. Not for Star Trek.

I'm from a different generation. I do not understand the millennial obsession with human depravity in their consumed stories.

I agree
they could have given this show another name not affiliated with gene Roddenberry and it would have done better
this show has nothing in common with Star Trek and it's spin offs
personally I find it offensive and disrespectful to all Trekkies to pervert the series
^This is exactly what they needed to do. I would have definitely given it a chance. But at this point I'm ok with not ruining Star Trek for myself. I have no inclination or desire to watch an attempted GoT's in space with the Star Trek name on it.

It's a cash grab and I don't have to participate.
 

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@Jawz I was talking about the Expanse, not Star Trek Discovery.
Hang on, let me check who said what, maybe I'm hollering at the wrong person.

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Star Trek was about hope, humanity, the possibility of peace in the future, exploring the final frontier
std- is about war and violence wtf were they thinking
than to add insult to injury they made it into a serial soap opera where you must watch every episode
nah, I watched the 1st 3 episodes and will not watch anymore


WTF IS THIS^^^^
 

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Hey where is the uber space babe in a cat suite? What no ceremonial thong and sacred Vulcan pole dancing?
 
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