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Discussion Starter #1
Why do we demonize the superficial?

The superficial is capable of great meaning but it doesn't warrant one.
What's on the surface is capable of great depth even if there is none.
To the untrained eye, meaningless... to the trained eye, a look into the creator's mind.
To the introvert, a sign... to the extrovert a shiny thing.

Look at some of the great artists throughout history. Their works allude to meanings that are not so apparent, and some allude to absolutely nothing. Perhaps their purpose was to get us to enjoy it simply to enjoy it. And so what if we can't understand the meaning, can we not respect it for it's technical beauty? To imitate texture, color, opacity of our surroundings. To appreciate beauty for the SAKE of beauty.

So why is it then that we demonize the superficial thing or the superficial person. Isn't there something to appreciate, that they were at least brave enough to express themselves when others were not? Do they not help create a world where we can express ourselves all the while being condemned for the very same? There is a NEED for this (I believe this is why Lady Gaga is so popular, she fills the need for people to be as crazy as they want without being judged all the while knowing that they are being judged) So why do we write them off all the same?

What about their vision of what makes them feel beautiful? Doesn't that tell us something? Doesn't that give us SOMETHING to appreciate.

So what if the superficial means absolutely nothing. What of it? If the world is a balance of two extremes, one capable of great depth and one capable of skimming the surface... doesn't that suggest that we DO need both? We need the ying just as much as the yang. We need the letters just as much as we need the paragraphs. We need the superficial just as much as we need depth. The depth to create great meaning, and the superficial to escape it for the very same reason.

It's important sometimes to be superficial and to escape the depth of the day to day; to not drown ourselves in it. Sometimes it's important to just feel the air brushing against our skin, to smell the coffee and appreciate, to test a few bottle of perfumes, visit the local paper store to buy beautifully patterned paper.

It's about balancing your life so you don't create some great and profound meaning where there is absolutely none; just like we should not die having experienced only the surface of life, what a shame that would be.

This is why I LOVE the arts, it gives me the chance to explore great depth but at the same time not. It's an example to me of a balanced life.
 

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Well said. Sometimes the meaning of something is that it has no meaning, it is simply there to be enjoyed. It takes us out of our heavy, heavy thoughts and helps us to just be, to just enjoy.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I don't believe that people demonize the superficial; they condemn too much superficial.

Your post makes a lot of points -- so broad I could go on a huge tangent about everything. I wish it was more narrow in scope. :confused:
I apologize. I don't really think linearly or logically... I see the topic as a tree with lots and lots of branches LOL I think of it more as a shift in perspective that affects different a whole heckava lotta aspects. You can touch on a specific point and take the topic linearly if you want.

Sorry for the confusion.
 

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I apologize. I don't really think linearly or logically... I see the topic as a tree with lots and lots of branches LOL I think of it more as a shift in perspective that affects different a whole heckava lotta aspects. You can touch on a specific point and take the topic linearly if you want.

Sorry for the confusion.
Oh there's no confusion at all. Topics are supposed to branch out in many, many directions. This one just happened to plant another tree in my head. Two sets of trees equals a lot of branches. :crazy:

My initial point still remains.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This one just happened to plant another tree in my head. Two sets of trees equals a lot of branches. :crazy:

My initial point still remains.
Lets talk about it! Which two trees, and why? :crazy:
 

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I agree. There's nothing wrong with the superficial in itself. As an example, I think that Britney Spears album Circus is one of the best albums I've ever heard. Sure the songs aren't deep in their own nature, but they are still great. Things which are only skin deep, can be awesome when done right. And things which carries a lot of depth can be equally bad if done wrong. It always depends on the context.
 

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My non superficial personality makes a lot of judgement from people, I see no use in it though.
I don't change my attitude now matter what I do.

I don't have much to say about though on it, I'm happy the way I am and I have people in life that respect my attitude; thats all i need.
 

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I am interested in this topic, but find the excessive amount of text impossible to read through.

I rewrote this post three times and I still sound like a dick oh well.

Can someone summarize for me?
 
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I am interested in this topic, but find the excessive amount of text impossible to read through.

I rewrote this post three times and I still sound like a dick oh well.

Can someone summarize for me?
As INFJ we find superficially non-important, but she was making a point that Its good because it brings a balance. I'm not sure that's what I got out of it.
 

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It's basically this: not everything has to mean something to have value. If it brings someone enjoyment, then it's valuable. Examples: certains kinds of representative art, humor, etc.

We tend to search out deeper meanings and devalue things that seem shallow to us. That's not necessarily a healthy way to be always. Some things just "are", and that's okay.
 

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It's basically this: not everything has to mean something to have value. If it brings someone enjoyment, then it's valuable. Examples: certains kinds of representative art, humor, etc.

We tend to search out deeper meanings and devalue things that seem shallow to us. That's not necessarily a healthy way to be always. Some things just "are", and that's okay.
Thank you.
 
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It's basically this: not everything has to mean something to have value. If it brings someone enjoyment, then it's valuable. Examples: certains kinds of representative art, humor, etc.

We tend to search out deeper meanings and devalue things that seem shallow to us. That's not necessarily a healthy way to be always. Some things just "are", and that's okay.
what is this "no" meaning you speak off. kidding. that makes more sense.
 

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Hey, I prefer to be original as well. And what's worse than not finding at least some depth or substance in whatever we're dealing with in daily life? Be it people, readings or our own thoughts even.

I'm not usually one to dwell on the surface of things very long before diving in the deep just out of curiosity to see where the rabbit hole ends. Please allow me to share a quote which summarizes my view on the matter:

"Frivolity palls and eventually leads to boredom and emptiness, but true happiness and joy and humour that are parts of a balanced life that includes serious thought, compassion and humble servitude to God, are characteristics that enrich life and add to its radiance." - Shoghi Effendi
 

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I fully agree with this point. I think one needs to take in reality as a whole rather than just completely reject and block out those parts one does not agree with or sees as meaningless. Example of excessive superficiality still upset me however. Like people borrowing money to do cosmetic surgery or to buy some special brand of clothing or a handbag ... it is just like ... ugh ... I would agree with PivotalSyntax that it is too much focus on the superficial that I see as problematic.
 

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Interestingly enough, I had a similar discussion with an INFJ friend of mine just a few days ago. He had been taking some time off to decide what to study and while some of his options included physics, history and political science, the discovery that fashion was eventually the one for him left me somewhat baffled and well...disappointed. I consider him an intelligent and capable person who would be able to excel in whatever career he would choose and especially after having witnessed deeds that demonstrated a special kind of warm-hearted approach to his socialist agenda, I couldn't help but try and make him reconsider.

This person dreams of a better society and tends to value ideas and actions that let him subtly(!) advertise for common good and general welfare, like a quiet pusherman for empathy and kindness. So this in mind, wouldn't the competetive environment and overall superficiality of the fashion industry present a serious hindrance for the propagation of ideas whose ultimate goals to raise class awareness and eliminate inequality would mean that to make them matter, it would require a little bit more effort than just buying something to display solidarity? Sure, there is a possibility that a clever fashion designer would be able to associate products with whole lifestyles and philosophies and be even somewhat successful in introducing them to customers, therefore making it trendy to be 'green' or 'anti-establishment' and 'punk' or whatever, but wouldn't a clothing item make for a poor and unefficient carrier for a message that strives to ridicule such social climbers themselves and erode the very same system that it seeks to make a profit in? And still have enough substance to be taken seriously? This is like those bloody Che Guevara T-shirts all over again.

Then again, if one dreams of changing the world, making clothes is a start as good as any. And it is impossible for information to spread through the population without any kind of distortion. And perhaps if superficiality can be viewed as a unit of compressed data, it might actually be a good thing. And maybe I'm just over-thinking and expecting too much. Or maybe this post belongs in the Venting forum, instead.
 

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I think it's all about balance. Superficiality in excess really bothers me. When people refuse to think about the meaning of things, important things, it's very frustrating. But the point I believe was that this can be taken too far, to the point where we have a difficult time just enjoying the everyday gifts that life bestows upon us. I think if we could learn this lesson of balance, it might be easier to enjoy the people we meet and the experiences that we have.
 
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Interestingly enough, I had a similar discussion with an INFJ friend of mine just a few days ago. He had been taking some time off to decide what to study and while some of his options included physics, history and political science, the discovery that fashion was eventually the one for him left me somewhat baffled and well...disappointed. I consider him an intelligent and capable person who would be able to excel in whatever career he would choose and especially after having witnessed deeds that demonstrated a special kind of warm-hearted approach to his socialist agenda, I couldn't help but try and make him reconsider.

This person dreams of a better society and tends to value ideas and actions that let him subtly(!) advertise common good and general welfare, like a quiet pusherman for empathy and kindness. So this in mind, wouldn't the competetive environment and overall superficiality of the fashion industry present a serious hindrance for the propagation of ideas whose ultimate goals to raise class awareness and eliminate inequality would mean that it would require a little bit more effort than just buying something to display solidarity? Sure, there is a possibility that a clever fashion designer would be able to associate products with whole lifestyles and philosophies and be even somewhat successful in introducing them to customers, therefore making it trendy to be 'green' or 'anti-establishment' and 'punk' or whatever, but wouldn't a clothing item make for a poor and unefficient carrier for a message that strives to ridicule such social climbers themselves and erode the very same system that it seeks to make a profit in? And still have enough substance to be taken seriously? This is like those bloody Che Guevara T-shirts all over again.

Then again, if one dreams of changing the world, making clothes is a start as good as any. And it is impossible for information to spread through the population without any kind of distortion. And perhaps if superficiality can be viewed as a unit of compressed data, it might actually be a good thing. And maybe I'm just over-thinking and expecting too much. Or maybe this post belongs in the Venting forum, instead.
It is perhaps indeed as you noted him trying to align his reality, what he thinks he is really good at doing, to his dreams. May be he feels that he has more certainty what to go with this career choice, more resources to head there (may be somebody in his family is in this area), and thus will be able to accomplish something whereas something like political science there is just too much uncertainty for him. NFs generally lack in the self-confidence area, especially younger NFs, and may go along with career choice that others advise to them or where they see they can get more support.

Another possibility is that he is not an INFJ but INFP. INFPs tend to have the same bettering humanity notions as INFJs but I have noticed that they place more weight on self-expression while they are at it, thus being more inclined to choose such careers as design. The two personality types frequently mis-test for one another.

If you are confused by his choice you can talk to him more about it, ask him what he wants to accomplish with his life, what his general plan for future is, most likely will shed more light on it for you.
 
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