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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the story, not really as bad as others just mine. For starters, I have a huge problem with socializing with anyone outside of my family and my 2 friends. It is the hardest for me to "fit" in with "general" people. I have had one major relationship, she was the one who actually asked me out (which I like) we were engaged, after a year and a half, I found out I wasn't "marrying" her fast enough and we didn't have kids fast enough. Caught her in a lie, 90% sure she cheated (can't prove) moved in with him, married and got pregnant all within 4 months of leaving me. Totally crushed, I was 100% commited to the relationship, after a period of time, I ended up "falling" for another girl, pushed the idea of both of us being in a relationship, and I received a lot of excuses but never a closed door. This went on for about 3 years, I tried to remain positive and believed it would happen at the right time like she mentioned, recently found out she is now dating someone, so her medical issues must make that possible I guess, (one of the things that was "holding" her back according to her) though she still actually has them!!!

I know, I take what people say as their "word" (what was I thinking. haha). Also there have been many women that I had as friends, who I asked out, but they all say (I'm too good for them, or They just want to be friends, They don't want to change what we have now) yada yada yada, drives me nuts. If I'm such a great person why am I only the "friend"? Not to mention, I always had to keep up communication with them if I wanted to talk, so it's one-sided. Not sure why they wanted to stay "friends" since they never go out of their way just to talk to me. So I basically just don't talk to them anymore and a friendship with them, imo is non-existent. I will always be myself and nice and respond if I ever met them again and they wanted to talk, but I just don't see it as a friendship. Friends talk?

Anyways, sorry this is so long, anyways I'm kinda at a point where I just don't trust women anymore, and with all my insecurities on this subject and my growing distrust I get told that it is only "hurting" me and somehow now it will never change because of "my" part. wtf? I've been trying to "recover" but I just feel as I will always distrust women. Anyone else have something similar, or at least understand where I'm coming from?
 
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I have something similar to you going on, although for me it is more small scale (i.e only to do with 1 woman). I can't trust her due to what she did to me over several months when I needed her the most and because of this lack of trust I can't be friends with even though I would greatly like to be friends with her and this situation is hurting not only me but her as well I suspect. The problem is that I also know that she wants to be friends with me as well but until she proves to me that I can trust her its not going to happen. Occasionally I try (give her chances and what not to prove that I can have some trust in her) but it so far hasn't worked out, in fact it has just caused the opposite.
Sorry that I wasn't anywhere near as detailed as your post.

So yes I think I know where your coming from (even if I haven't experienced something as bad as you have), the only thing I can suggest is that just be your self and see what happens and hopefully in time you can find some one you can trust.
 

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If you come across as "too nice" you might be perceived more like a dear brother than a potential partner. Thus, entering a relationship with you would feel almost like incest (emotionally and/or sexually).

Even so, I don't think you have to become the complete alpha male stereotype, and if you tried you probably wouldn't succeed, as it would be too way out of line with your true self.

I understand why you tend to distrust women, but I also think you've met the wrong type of women (that is, the wrong type for you). As I'm sure you've noticed, there are a lot of good hearted girls/women on this forum (just as an example), so they do exist.

My best advice: Take it slow, and don't jump into anything just for the sake of being with someone, anyone, just any one. Do you have any special interests that can be translated into social interaction (clubs, associations, groups, whatever)? It is easier to socialize when there is less smalltalk and more focus on some subject or interest you have in common within that group.
 

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There has been some discussion of this topic in sex and relationships subforum. The pattern seems to be that initially people start out in the relationship arena full of optimism, and feeling, and openness, and enthusiasm for it. However with time most of us run into some kind of negative experiences. For most people their very first relationship doesn't turn into the life-long one. The crazy ex thread in that subforum has some examples of the far end of the sort of very negative situations people can find themselves in. There are even relationships that end with somebody having to attend counseling or taking antidepressants or falling into substance abuse. And then obviously second or third round people become more guarded, more fearful of each other. You are not the only one who is following through through this pattern. I believe with this happens to everybody who has ever had their relationships fail.

With trusting people, one thing I've learned is to pay more attention to what people actually do rather than what they say. The two are not always the same thing. The word of the person may paint one picture, while his or her actions will paint another. If your partner tells you that he or she wants to marry you and then obviously delays it for 3+ years then it would be foolish to continue believing what they are saying. It is not that people are horrible and intentionally go around lying to others. It is that many don't know themselves. In psychology there are such understandings as conscience and subconscious. It is said that subconscious is really what directs our actions but our reason cannot penetrate into it, we cannot easily bring out what's in our subconscious into the conscious level. So it happens that a lot of discrepancy between what is seemingly happening on surface and what gets said and what is really taking place is due to this divide.

Then of course I think that for each of us there is only small portion of other people who will form a good match. So if you have a failed relationship then look at the bright side - that person apparently wasn't a good match for you after all. It sounds like in first case you weren't in agreement how fast both of you wanted to move along, and at the end it turned out that she is somebody untrustworthy. In second case that went on for 3 years you just failed to read the actions of the person.

I know, I take what people say as their "word" (what was I thinking. haha). Also there have been many women that I had as friends, who I asked out, but they all say (I'm too good for them, or They just want to be friends, They don't want to change what we have now) yada yada yada, drives me nuts. If I'm such a great person why am I only the "friend"?
Well have you ever met women yourself who you think are great people and would make great friends, but who you wouldn't be interested in romantically? Think of the reasons why you would only think of these women as friend and nothing more. Same works vice versa.
 

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Is this question about trusting yourself or women?

There are threads in the INFJ forum about friend-zoned this can happen in relationship's also.
 

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That sucks.
Seriously.
Sorry that happened to you.
Some people just blow; man or woman.
Hopefully you can find someone you can trust again and someone worthy of your trust.
But I think it happens to everyone.
 
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I also find it hard to fit in with general people, and I also tend to take people's word alot =/ All my past experiences with men were bad. The 1st guy stringed me along for a year because he couldn't make up his mind, 2nd guy used me, 3rd guy turned out to be a cheater. After this happened, I spent a few months getting over all that and analysing their actions and mine. Looking back I realised how so many things were odd with the 3rd guy which added up to him being a cheater and I realised how he manipulated me. I also learned other things from the 1st and 2nd guy. Things that showed how they weren't very intested in me. I really like what vel said about paying more attention to what people actually do, rather than what they say.

When my current boyfriend came along, I was extremely suspicious of him. I observed him closely but he never showed any similar behaviour to the other guys. No signs that he was most likely cheating, nor signs of him not being genuine. It took many months to finally trust him, after he had done and said many things to show me that he really liked me. Also I met his friends after 3 dates and his mum after 2 months. I asked him why he likes me, he says he hasn't met anyone decent like me in quite awhile. He knows I'm caring and kind-hearted, that I would never cheat, never lead anyone on, never hurt anyone purposefully, that I don't constantly complain, bitch or undermine, and that I'm always positive, cheery and easy-going. My cheating ex, said I had this aura of innocence, yet he didn't trust me because he's a cheater!

Because my boyfriend not only can see these qualities in me, but also values them, tells me alot about his character. I'm hoping this relationship will last, but if it doesn't I know we will still be friends. I hope that you will be able to trust again too.

I also agree with what vel said about people not consiously wanting to hurt others. I know a girl that dated someone for 6 months and never kissed him or even bought him a valentines gift, she said she didn't like getting all mushy. I would never date someone that I didn't want to kiss! I wanted to tell her off for this, but I knew that she didn't use him (purposefully), she just didn't know herself well enough. Unfortunately she broke his heart and he told others that she lead him on (I don't blame him).
 

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Anyways, sorry this is so long, anyways I'm kinda at a point where I just don't trust women anymore, and with all my insecurities on this subject and my growing distrust I get told that it is only "hurting" me and somehow now it will never change because of "my" part. wtf? I've been trying to "recover" but I just feel as I will always distrust women. Anyone else have something similar, or at least understand where I'm coming from?
I had this ENFJ who strung me along and really screwed with my head... It was horrible. I feel you, dude.

A few different ways to look at this issue... you could see it as a phobia. A phobia is a negative association caused by trauma. That is... maybe you've associated women (the kind you are attracted to) with pain (of betrayal specifically). If you have a phobia, the more these kinds of women don't cause you pain, the less afraid you will be. So if this is your problem, you just gotta force yourself to get out there (Harder than it sounds, I know), and eventually your phobia will disappear.

Another way of looking at this is maybe the reason why you are so distrustful now is because in some way, you blame yourself. This is a very INFJ thing to do... we are too hard on ourselves.
 

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I agree with Btmangan about treating it like a phobia and forcing yourself to become counterphobic, which will undoubtedly open you up to more pain but also open you up to some more positive experiences, and hopefully they will eventually balance out. Even if they don't balance out completely, you only need one relationship to go perfectly right once don't you? Search for that one in a hundred relationship...and be selective. If you don't think things are quite right, go with your instincts and get out of there, or at least force some honest conversatiion about where the relationship is going. Don't waste time on might-be's, you should concentrate on the probably-for-sure's. I'm not saying there are hundreds of potential girls out there waiting for you, I'm just saying don't be afraid to be single if the right girl isn't around at the moment. I was single for 7 years before I met my husband.

Also there have been many women that I had as friends, who I asked out, but they all say (I'm too good for them, or They just want to be friends, They don't want to change what we have now) yada yada yada, drives me nuts. If I'm such a great person why am I only the "friend"?
Because, unfortunately, to have a successful intimite relationship you have to be sexually attracted to someone, and if you're not, you can rarely force it. I went out with a guy for 18 months who I was never at all attracted to, but whom was a good friend who I loved. I found myself constantly fancying his friends or other people. It wasn't nice for me. And it didn't turn out nice for him when I eventually finished things with him. I went through a lot of grief with this guy, he treated me apallingly a lot of the time and I put up with it because I loved him and I wanted to help him, but in the end I had to finish the relationship because I got attracted to other guys too often, and once I had acted on the attraction just the one time with one kiss, I knew that I had to end things for both our sakes.
 

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Will I ever learn to trust again?

Yes...you will if you want to be able to.

Distrusting 50% of the population is a very interesting possition for a person of either gender to take. Try not to see them as women, but as individuals, or as That Bitch Susan. They were unpleasent people, but not all people are unpleasent, you have just met the wrong ones.

I am not a generally trusting person, and I've had bad expirences with other humans who I've trusted too much, but I do still manage to form connections with them. I have just learnt from past expirence, and I am now more carful who I trust. I make sure people are worthy of my trust and care before I put myself out there.

Getting used hits you hard, as it undermines your confidence in your ability to make decisins about people, and to protect yourself. Once you trust your own ability to suss users and time wasters out, you will be able to trust again, and meet people desirving of your attention and care.

Look at what you can learn from these expirences, not just how these women behaved to signal a problem, but how did you respond to that/them? Where did you go wrong with how you acted (though acept knowing what you did then, it was understandible), and how can you change that so you are better prepaired for next time. If you can't look at your part in what happened objectivly, and see opertunities to learn, these things may repeat themselves.

I don't mean to put any blame on you, but the more you can do to understand these things and protect yourself the better.

I test my friends and perspective partners very carfully before I fully commit. I am very selective with what I share with new people, building up slowly, I never give anyone anything they can use against me until they've proven themselves a true friend. I don't date guys who I don't know as good friends, ever. If I can trust a guy as a good and reliable friend, I can likly trust him as a good and reliable partner. Do we get on, share the same values? I can explore that in a friendship first. Not all guys are interested in being my friend first, and those are the ones who are users and time wasters. If people really like you they will want to get to know you as a person, not just as a potentual sex object or a security blanket. However, if I think of someone as a perspective partner that I am befriending, I am carful not to lead them on, I don't say that's how I see them and I treat them like any other male friend. With my recent ex we were friends for a few months, I decided I liked him and he liked me, I flirted a little, he flirted back, then dated for two years, now we are friends again. More than a few months as friends is too long, and you need to acept you are just friends or move on to pastures new.

Usually with men though, I quickly realise they are not worth the effort within a short period.

You are lucky those women were not interested in you, as they were clearly not relyable people or commited to your friendship. Dating them would end in a great deal of hurt.
 

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Even if they don't balance out completely, you only need one relationship to go perfectly right once don't you? Search for that one in a hundred relationship....

...and be selective. I'm just saying don't be afraid to be single if the right girl isn't around at the moment. I was single for 7 years before I met my husband.
Inspiring words and I couldn't agree more. You can fail countless times... just as long as you succeed once. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks all for the great posts, sorry I couldn't respond sooner. There was a comment about not being afraid to be single (and I know that was a general reference), but just to give a little more of this, I'm 27, I met my ex when I was 22 and she has been my only relationship outside of friends (basically she's the only one who gave me a "chance") So, I can definetly handle being single, also leading to me being very picky because I am, it's typical for me to make a move well after meeting someone.

Yeah, I know I'm my own worst enemy, I mean all in all I'm a hopeless romantic as a typical INFJ is, and I really fit the INFJ personna, and putting myself out there just isn't me. Also being the "alpha male" (which I loved that comment it made me laugh) yeah that will never happen, sorry I'm just not a "regular" guy, I love to have fun and I love sports just not like "general" guys do.

One thing I love and hate about INFJ especially beiing a male is that fact we are the rarest, honestly I find that remarkable, the hate part comes into is finding a female who is actually attracted and actually open to the complexity of INFJ's as well as trying to find a suitable match for the rarest personality. Oh, my other downfall I think is I find a trend of being attracted to single moms, I think because I respect the struggles they go through and I always want to help them (and I don't mean just like ok I'm gonna cook so you get to relax, it's more like I'm there to be a companion through life with them if the relationship "works") but I never even get the chance. Ok, gonna stop here because I don't want to turn it into a rant.
 
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