[abitsilly]

Do woman get enough freedom to express their thoughts...think about it, have you been just about to speak and been interupted by men or by clone women thinking you're not important enough to be heard?
I feel like a woman who's being constantly brocken in like a horse, to conform to these standards of simplicity to which we are all a part of. Those who inforce these thoughts are bad and should be ignored those who promote them are worse. I have seen my mother and my mothers mother being reduced to a state of almost worthlessness, by this 'mans' world.

 

[abitsilly]

c'mon I don't believe no one has experienced this?

 

[abitsilly]

eughh! take me to the egress. civilisation moves too slowly.

 

[Classy]

That's Abitsilly, Ignorance is to blame not man. Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?

 

[agokcen]

I've really never had this problem. Whether or not people want to listen to me, they do. I don't give them any option. It's a non-issue. *shrug*

Then again, it's pretty widely agreed upon that I'm a dude on the inside. Also, my mother is a very strong woman (we call her "Boss Lady"), so perhaps that's been a factor.

Nonetheless, if you don't let it affect you, it won't. Command -- don't just ask for -- respect and it will be given to you. At least in my experience.

 

[xrevolutionx]

eughh! take me to the egress. civilisation moves too slowly.

Patience young padawan. Enlightenment takes time.

To answer your question. Men interrupt. period. Even when it's just the guys hanging out, we all interrupt each other. In fact, if something really excites us, we interrupt after only two words! I'm guilty of it, recognize it as i'm doing it, but sometimes cannot stop because of my excitement. It's almost like a reflex reaction. I've had it done to me too plenty of times and have had moments where it was too much and wanted to punch the guy in the face.

I don't believe men are purposely trying to put women down in that context. It's just guys being "guys".

 

[Phoenix Down]

*ahem*

Do women get enough freedom to express their thoughts...think about it, have you been just about to speak and been interupted by men or by clone women thinking you're not important enough to be heard?
I feel like a woman who's being constantly brocken in like a horse, to conform to these standards of simplicity to which we are all a part of. Those who inforce these thoughts are bad and should be ignored those who promote them are worse. I have seen my mother and my mothers mother being reduced to a state of almost worthlessness, by this 'mans' world.

I don't know why, but that, and only that, bothered me. Ha Ha.

Yes, this used to happen all the time... but it was never because I'm a woman... Evidently I ask too many intellignet questions durring class and it takes up valuable class time :dry:

I don't think my thoughts have ever been subject to gender discrimination. However I have experienced my fair share of discrimination based on age...
This is one reason as a kid I turned to the internet: no one had to know I was 14.

In general people listen to me: I'm usually right.

 

[agokcen]

However I have experienced my fair share of discrimination based on age...

Ugh, true story. I still get that (although, thankfully, I can get through it most of the time), but you'll notice it's always from immature adults -- the ones who need a way to assert their superiority over a kid who's more intelligent or mature than they are. It's their way of finding a reason to discount what you're saying when they otherwise could find none. Good gosh, does that annoy me to no end....

 

[Phoenix Down]

Ugh, true story. I still get that (although, thankfully, I can get through it most of the time), but you'll notice it's always from immature adults -- the ones who need a way to assert their superiority over a kid who's more intelligent or mature than they are. It's their way of finding a reason to discount what you're saying when they otherwise could find none. Good gosh, does that annoy me to no end....

Don't forget the diploma wavers!

 

[yesiknowbut]

This is everywhere, the continual striving of one person to best another. Human nature. Most people don't notice it.

Unfortunately sexism is widespread, and again I think possibly ENTPs sail above it lots of the time because they don't notice it so as to be upset by it. It finally dawned on me after I'd finished a very difficult 3 year stint in management, when I watched my successor take on all the battles I'd been fighting. Two things started to get said in meetings:

"why have we not heard about this before?" and
"This is really important".

I was really hurt, and had to go to the lengths of actually showing people the minutes of meetings in which it was documented that I had told them all of this before, and they had done nothing.

They hadn't been listening. But my successor was a man.....

I had always in my career told myself not to be a victim, and that if I found my progress blocked I should look for any other cause than gender before I felt myself to be disadvantaged. That's poisonous, you see. I think I missed a lot, but it's still probably good advice.

 

[WildWinds]

Its only a problem if you allow it to be one.

You will encounter people who will try to interrupt you, control you, disrespect you and treat you like a maid, doormat or idiot.

The simple answer is: Don't let them. Stand up for yourself. Say no. Ignore them until they behave in a more appropriate manner. If you want to express your thoughts, do it. If somebody keeps interrupting you, politely tell them to shut up because you're trying to talk. If they don't want to hear what you have to say, point them to the exit.

 

[abitsilly]

That was just an example. Did you know women my age find it hard to get a job because employers think that we're going to pop out a couple of kids soon?! Strange I know, it's one of the questions they're not allowed to ask in an interveiw also religion as well? like that counts. Every time I try to be myself I get chastised and put down until I am 'normal' again. But I appreciate all your thoughts.
Chrissy x

 

[yesiknowbut]

Just keep at it. Your employers will realise your worth. When I applied for my current job I went to have a look around first. Asked them when they were interviewing and they told me. Oh, I said, that will be difficult for me. -Why? -because that's the day my baby is due.
They put the interview date back by 6 weeks, and I got the job. It can happen.

 

[ENTPreneur]

This is everywhere, the continual striving of one person to best another. Human nature. Most people don't notice it.

Unfortunately sexism is widespread, and again I think possibly ENTPs sail above it lots of the time because they don't notice it so as to be upset by it. It finally dawned on me after I'd finished a very difficult 3 year stint in management, when I watched my successor take on all the battles I'd been fighting. Two things started to get said in meetings:

"why have we not heard about this before?" and
"This is really important".

I was really hurt, and had to go to the lengths of actually showing people the minutes of meetings in which it was documented that I had told them all of this before, and they had done nothing.

They hadn't been listening. But my successor was a man.....

I had always in my career told myself not to be a victim, and that if I found my progress blocked I should look for any other cause than gender before I felt myself to be disadvantaged. That's poisonous, you see. I think I missed a lot, but it's still probably good advice.

Unfortunately, that can happen if you are a man too. Alpha males look for men similar to themselves.... Probably the same for alpha-women. All about expectations. I could read DotCom-gurus for what they were back in the days. Did anyone listen to me? No. If I suggest a solution to a problem in a completely different area than I work in, will anyone care? Not many. If another person with the right credentials repeat my words and idea syllable by syllable, it suddenly is gold. It takes about four years for new alphas to understand that my ideas are valid. They understand by experience, and eventually they come around.

Also, I treat everone about the same, no matter title. This makes the alphas very uncertain.... and so it is easier for them to deem me slightly crazy.... Ever wondered about how similar the Board members are in a company? Inbreeding? Or just looking for copies of themselves...? Your guess is as good as mine. I think a mix of both.....

EDIT: And I am suggesting that "credentials" include such things as charisma, silver tongue, experience, ass-kissing, relations and gender. And, oh...yes, almost forgot: Actual skill and knowledge....

 

[yesiknowbut]

To be fair, sometimes it isn't even someone else with more acceptable credentials. Sometimes it is the right time for the decision to finally get made, politically.

I wonder if we can be a little bit blind to that kind of game-playing, as we tend to be straightforward and focussed on the problem and its solution. What I certainly forget sometimes is that the professed problem is often not the actual problem as far as the next link in the decision-making chain is concerned. To them the problem may well be getting a bigger company car or keeping their nose clean as this would be a really bad time to make a decision with any risk in it, as the job for such-and-such is about to come up and they think they might be in with a chance....

Pah. Workplace politics suck. DC.

 

[Shikamaru]

Those who inforce these thoughts are bad and should be ignored those who promote them are worse.

No, they just have alternative morality. :wink:

Press most people and you'll get them to admit that they don't actually believe in objective morality, so the only thing wrong with treating you this way is that you don't like it. :crazy:

 

[WildWinds]

Pretty much ^

So then it just turns into a matter of learning how to manipulate people to get what you want.

 

[YourMom]

Women have rights?

 

[agokcen]

Women have rights?

Sigh. I was just waiting for this. Inevitable response is inevitable.

 

[Sellihca]

Women are breeding cows. Treat them accordingly. And, inexplicably, they usually love it.

Which, if I may add parenthetically, is a captivating paradox of female sexual selection. Women are programmed to pick the alpha male providers, who are the ones most likely to be brutish and aggressive. Of course, the conscious, sentimental part of their brains always tell them they want nice guys with a sense of humor. But, no, biology trumps all, ergo, they want swaggering assholes with a square jaw and a fat paycheck.