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Then we have vastly different ideas of "gigantic muscles" because people can certainly get to a point of it being excessive in my opinion without steroids. I find athletic, but lean bodies more attractive on men. Runners are always going to look better to me than body builders. preferences are subjective.

why? This literally doesn't make sense. A lot of men build muscle to look better for women. Obviously it's not only for that. Make up isn't only to look nice for men either.

It seems telling that you choose cardio as being closer since it's not actually possible to spot reduce and having muscle burns fat. Is it possible you're having some confirmation bias?
I've been to the gym and almost all people who lifted weights were men. It's still common for women to think that they will develop large muscles from weightlifting so they do cardio instead.

Novelty for whom?
A straight man typically isn't in contact with large muscles. There are men who play contact sports, but that's uncommon nowadays with the digital age.

?I brought it up because both people gain weight. It's a bit ridiculous to want to be a fat fuck, eat Cheetos all day every day, be a lazy bastard and think your wife should stay fit for you. If you think women are all just cool with that, you should probably talk to some women.
But aren't I saying that it's okay for women to not worry about staying fit once they're married?

I'm married to a dude. If he let himself go completely I'd try to get him to excercize with me (something I do everyday because it's nice for my mind), drink more water, eat healthier, and like go see a therapist if he needed to. I love him and I want to be with him. If he let himself totally go I'd probably not be as into the whole fucking him thing. However, if I still felt that way and also let myself go I'd be as big of a joke as the dudes who become fat asses and want a hot wife.
Some fat dudes are cool. They have that "relaxed fit" vibe about them. Some women dislike when men look better than they do. And also, if a woman has too much control over a man, then it stresses her out because she wants someone to be her rock in times when she can't think straight.

ah so that's why the majority of women are into Donald Trump and men that look like him and there wasn't a ton of even old women super into the twilight guys wanting to fuck them? That's why there's no demand for conventionally attractive celebs and most women are like "GROSS! GET RYAN GOSLING, BRAD PITT, HENRY CAVILL, ZAC EFFRON etc OUT OF THIS FILM AND SHOW ME DANNY DEVITO OR JACK NICLOLSON!" right?


hate to break it to you, but I don't think this is true.
In Hollywood and works of fiction, elements are used together to provide certain images. They aren't going to take Danny Devito and make him a war hero. They aren't going to take Seth Rogan and make him into a sexy vampire. They're going to use whoever suits the roles best.

Real life is different. Although expectations and stereotypes have a certain gravity, there are things that defy them.

What stays the same is that women are attracted to power. It could be Donald Trump's power of political influence, Justin Beiber's power of making young girls squeal, a nerd's power to outsmart others, or a jock's power to intimidate others.

The theoretical "fat fuck" you are describing sits on a couch all day eating cheetos. But what if he's the big cheese? What if he's also smart, attractive, and strong? The argument that weight matters for a man falls apart.

Do you think that maybe that's because men are judged on their performance while women are judged on also how they look?

I absolutely fit this pattern. My husband and I are within a 3.5 year age gap. I haven't had interest in dating an old guy. I've been approached by older men when I was younger and that always seemed disgusting. For wisdom, I'll read a fucking book, not date someone 10+ years my senior. apparently most women agree.
The chart shows that it's more common for older men to be with younger women than older women with younger men.

I knew a woman who slept with or even dated her professor when she was in college. She was 20 years younger than he was. The difference in social standing, a student and a professor who exerts influence upon dozens or hundreds of people, made up for the difference.

I'll also add that people are with each other because they want to be. It's obvious that men and women have a different preference as to age.

What countries are you expected to wear formal attire and people are xenophobic?
I can't imagine North Korea to have many fashion choices. China, maybe. Conservative Arabic countries. What I meant was countries with a conservative disposition in general.

dieting causes weight gain and is pretty unhealthy overall. The US is obsessed with dieting. It's not really that surprising there is such a weight issue there.
You made a sweeping generalization, since many people don't diet, and furthermore, childhood obesity is a thing. I think seed oils are responsible, they are present in fast food and many packaged foods and worsen insulin sensitivity, among other things.

Very few people (men included) can have any natural charm if they let themselves go. It's not good mentally or physically. Looking put together does actually impact mood. The Case For Getting Dressed

It still seems like you don't get that people can care about their appearance without only thinking about that? it's a bit odd.
Placebo effect is another mental phenomenon where mental state is impacted from something that doesn't matter.
 

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I find the thread bordering on tactless. It makes sweeping generalizations, blatant assumptions, and thinly veiled insults about the motivations of one half of our species by someone who is at least claiming to be a member of the other half.



How does the OP know for a fact that all women dress up and make themselves up for the reasons he states? By what direct personal experience does he determine this assumption? Even if he claims observation, how can he be certain his sample size is adequately represented? Even if we discount the subtly implied insults the OP levels against those women who choose to dress up and wear make up, he cannot conclusively prove his arguments...no, wild accusations, valid.



The means and methods by which women choose to enhance their natural beauty are indeed socialized and encultured, but we should not fault them for choosing to use those means and methods. Is it a natural part of the mating ritual? Sure. Is that all that it is? No. Some women choose to make themselves up and wear certain clothing for their own



The OP is making a thinly veiled allusion that women who make themselves up and wear certain clothing are are shameless nymphomaniac sluts and they should only be taken seriously, not if, but only when, they choose to dress conservatively and use less make up in order to become future wives and mothers. If I (and others) are being tactless in this regard, then I am only responding in kind.
Then that is what should have been written instead.

Note: I have no qualms with your original response. Your response was firm, but fair. Same goes for Kynx' post. I was referring to how you specifically clicked 'Like' on posts that deliberately attacked his person. My next qualm after that was with the group.

So, tell me, even if it was not the intention: could it not be viewed as a lack of tact, cyber bulling, or a tad passive aggressive to group an entire massive group of people into one category? could it not be viewed as a lack of tact, cyber bulling, or a tad passive aggressive to group an entire massive group of people into one category and ask why that category is a way you perceive without anything actually backing that up?



I've seen this occur many times on many threads. I've also seen people come in (as you are) and defend the original post, but not those who disagree with it.



Could the op not be viewed in any way of trolling, bigotry, sexism, (an entire gender, btw)? If so, why do you feel a point to talk about distasteful behavior in response to something that could easily be classified as the very things you're arguing against? Is it just that these things don't matter any more when you agree with the opinion of whatever is trolling, bigoted, sexist, racist, etc? Is there a different reason?







Based on your post....you're being ironic with this, right?
Lack of tact? No. I am but one person defending another person from being repeatedly harassed by a mob who are simply in it to gain positive reaffirmation, in which they can feel good about themselves regardless of whether they are performing an injustice or not. Cyber bullying? That depends on your definition of bullying. I'm translating from the Norwegian term "mobbing" which is considered "group violence". Bullying is to me defined as a mob viciously attacking a single person repeatedly, and possibly even attempting to freeze them out from joining their social networks, which is what you're doing. I am not a mob, and I abstain from participating in circle jerks. Passive-aggressive? No. I'm not passive... I'm just aggressive. And I will continue to be aggressive until your mob scatters, because you have no moral or logical high-ground from where I'm standing.

There is no reason for me to defend anyone of you when you are 5-10 people, if not more, fully capable of defending yourselves, which you are. You have an absurd number of people here in your clique, in your own personal safe haven INCEL-like group, whom from the very start launched a series of attacks on a single individual without letting said individual explain themselves, and whom now are defending each other relentlessly, defending your judgments, presumptions, bullying, injustice, amoral actions, rationalizing that everything you do, whatever it may be, is ok. There will be nothing but a streamline of defense from your mob from now on, so, you do not need my help. You will not need my help, so long as you stick together, and defend each other relentlessly through thick and thin, regardless of whether you are right or wrong. Do you see this post? I'm not going to defend that post. He had more than enough time to get up off his feet, find an appropriate way of participating, or get away from you. So, there's also limitations to how long I am willing to defend someone.

Yes, the OP could be viewed as trolling, and as displaying bigotry and sexism. Now, how do we go about approaching that, I wonder. How about we try asking first, to make sure that it is in fact what he is doing? How about we simply reject his viewpoints, instead of attacking his person, presuming who and what and why he is?

No, I'm not being ironic. Fuck you. And if you try to presume anything about me again, fuck you twice. Fuck you three times, just for good measure.
 

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PerC Host, ENTP 5w6 So/Sx 584 ILE
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Then that is what should have been written instead.

Note: I have no qualms with your original response. Your response was firm, but fair. Same goes for Kynx' post. I was referring to how you specifically clicked 'Like' on posts that deliberately attacked his person. My next qualm after that was with the group.



Lack of tact? No. I am but one person defending another person from being repeatedly harassed by a mob who are simply in it to gain positive reaffirmation, in which they can feel good about themselves regardless of whether they are performing an injustice or not. Cyber bullying? That depends on your definition of bullying. I'm translating from the Norwegian term "mobbing" which is considered "group violence". Bullying is to me defined as a mob viciously attacking a single person repeatedly, and possibly even attempting to freeze them out from joining their social networks, which is what you're doing. I am not a mob, and I abstain from participating in circle jerks. Passive-aggressive? No. I'm not passive... I'm just aggressive. And I will continue to be aggressive until your mob scatters, because you have no moral or logical high-ground from where I'm standing.

There is no reason for me to defend anyone of you when you are 5-10 people, if not more, fully capable of defending yourselves, which you are. You have an absurd number of people here in your clique, in your own personal safe haven INCEL-like group, whom from the very start launched a series of attacks on a single individual without letting said individual explain themselves, and whom now are defending each other relentlessly, defending your judgments, presumptions, bullying, injustice, amoral actions, rationalizing that everything you do, whatever it may be, is ok. There will be nothing but a streamline of defense from your mob from now on, so, you do not need my help. You will not need my help, so long as you stick together, and defend each other relentlessly through thick and thin, regardless of whether you are right or wrong. Do you see this post? I'm not going to defend that post. He had more than enough time to get up off his feet, find an appropriate way of participating, or get away from you. So, there's also limitations to how long I am willing to defend someone.

Yes, the OP could be viewed as trolling, and as displaying bigotry and sexism. Now, how do we go about approaching that, I wonder. How about we try asking first, to make sure that it is in fact what he is doing? How about we simply reject his viewpoints, instead of attacking his person, presuming who and what and why he is?

No, I'm not being ironic. Fuck you. And if you try to presume anything about me again, fuck you twice. Fuck you three times, just for good measure.
I can feel the love. Sometimes a snarky response is warranted, IMHO. ;)
 

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Women don't dress up for men, but women dress up for other women.

If you observe how women interact with each other, you would notice that women tend to eye each other up and down and judge each others' looks more harshly, as compared to how a man would judge a woman's looks. I never used to like dressing up, as I've always felt that natural is beauty, until I had a bunch of women at my workplace criticizing me harshly for dressing plainly, and that is when I started dressing up whenever I leave my house.
This.

OP You'll most likely assume we're all homosexuals since I've heard incels say those things before. But women naturally seek the approval of other women. Even the most beautiful girls I knew (Actual models) dressed for female approval. Men were just a bonus.

This isn't to belittle men or anything of the sore, it's just how women are with each other.
 

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@tanstaafl28 showed a lack of tact and regard for obligation when they appropriated the continuation of cyber-bullying via passive-aggressive devices such as the 'Like'-button. As I've only seen this occur once, I don't suspect this is a repeated offense. The toxic presumptions made by @KasKas19, however, trolling by @Lady of Light , and blatant racist bigotry of @SilentScream, leaves residue of distasteful behavior across the site that would otherwise not have been tolerated in society let alone on a medium intended for civil discourse. Yet, here we are, derailing another thread by allowing it to be pigeonholed to what a few perceive is the world's problem at large.
Dude...are you a schizo or were you raised by a Karen?
 

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Women don't dress up for men, but women dress up for other women.

If you observe how women interact with each other, you would notice that women tend to eye each other up and down and judge each others' looks more harshly, as compared to how a man would judge a woman's looks. I never used to like dressing up, as I've always felt that natural is beauty, until I had a bunch of women at my workplace criticizing me harshly for dressing plainly, and that is when I started dressing up whenever I leave my house.
Perhaps for some women.

Some prefer to dress up nice in the comforts of their own home, especially when alone. Nothing wrong about having preferences for how we like to express ourselves, for the purpose of only fulfilling our own desires. It has nothing to do with pleasing, comparing to, nor competing with other people.

Careful with those generalizations. It paints people in a crude manner that exploits sexist language.
 

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I know I can't. Fashion and aesthetics are life. I've dumped men for wanting me to dress down. Don't date people you want to change. I rather jump off a bridge than be trapped with the same boring man forever in marriage.
 

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I know I can't. Fashion and aesthetics are life. I've dumped men for wanting me to dress down. Don't date people you want to change. I rather jump off a bridge than be trapped with the same boring man forever in marriage.
Word.
Imagine some dude trying to tell you that you dress too sexy and he's sporting some crusty ass birkenstocks and tan cargo shorts with his favorite faded green shirt that has a cabbage stain on it lol.

Fashionless people are the female birds of the human species, sure they have function but they aren't very fun to look at most the time.
 
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