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Wrong ideals

1508 Views 14 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  DDrokenss
Hello INFPs,

I did a Myers-Briggs personality thingy and came out INFP. Made me feel pretty good about myself and sometimes still does.

But today I came here to ask you for help:sad:.
I am a rather idealistic person... and I think I was led to believe in the wrong ideals. I put a lot work, time and effort and also a lot of emotions into pushing some political ideals that I now do not believe in any more... actually "do not believe in anymore" is an understatement, for I now think those ideals are dangerous for the world.

I did not want to belive in the wrong kind of things again, so I tried having no ideals at all... did not work out. It left me feeling empty and useless.
I am also feeling very bad about myself for pushing the wrong kind of ideals. I even lied to do so. Well, I did not feel bad about me then. I thought I was aiding humanity, but now I do feel bad about me and think I am a failure and worthless.

I just thought you might understand.
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1. I think idealism is a kind of selfishness; anything else is wrong!
Lusting after children is twisted. Raping a little kid is beyond evil. Genocide is beyond evil. 2 + 2 = 4.

You wanna argue? Let's do it. Tell me that I'm incorrect on any of these points.

As far as the actual thread @Homer Simpson: ... It happens. To all of us. The important thing is that you've resurfaced out of ignorance, so if you feel like you've done damage, you can make efforts to un-do it. Otherwise, you are free with your new knowledge. :)
You wanna argue? Let's do it. Tell me that I'm incorrect on any of these points.
Okay, fine. Let's have at it!

Lusting after children is twisted.
How so? That depends, I believe, on your opinions of the nature of paedophilia as a phenomenon. I hold that paedophilia, along with any other paraphilia and/or aspect of human sexuality, is inherent to the individual and an involuntary response. Thus a person could conceivably be attracted to, and even 'lust after', a child, but due to their rational faculties and empathy towards people, would restrain themselves from acting. Terms like 'twisted' are simply subjective value judgments which depend on an individual's criteria. To me, the most important thing is one's actions, and that people are not harmed; therefore I cannot hold thoughts as evil in and of themselves. The same goes for potential murderers and such. The human psyche, for all its recurring patterns and apparent simplicity, is an unfathomably complex beast, and has many dark and unexplored crevices yet.
Raping a little kid is beyond evil.
Much like 'twisted', 'evil' is also a moral judgment. However, in this case, as the harm done to the individual is real and undeniable, I would agree with your assessment. Above and beyond that, from a rational perspective, the damage done to the child's psychological development is often devastating, and carries with it the potential to cause an individual to lash out at others for the abuse they have suffered, perhaps become abusers themselves, or perhaps against the odds they will conquer the trauma and use it to fuel future success; such people are rare. Nevertheless, it is entirely unjust and one of the purest forms of apathy and selfishness I can conceive.
Genocide is beyond evil.
Well, now, I don't know about that. I would quite happily sanction the genocide of a large portion of the criminal population, who have perpetrated unspeakable horrors against their fellow man and whose genetics, upbringing and psychological profile show they are beyond hope of redemption. I'm only half joking, you know. But I know that in reality it would be a horrible thing, as well as utterly impractical.

But again, genocide... I would consider to be the most repugnant act on this list. One is merely a thought; it harms nobody. Another slashes at a person's very being, leaving a devastating wound that will never fully heal. But genocide is... an unspeakable abomination. You know, when I look at statistics on a sheet of paper, when I see that a million people have died, it doesn't really affect me emotionally at all, because I'm incapable of comprehending such magnitude. I was playing a war game the other day, though, that showed scenes of the D-Day Normandy landing. Normally it doesn't bother me, but I saw them, these people, during the cinematics, talking of hopes, of dreams, and of focus, rushing onto the beach, only to be mowed down on the spot. It wasn't just one, or two... but tens, even hundreds of people, mowed down so mercilessly. Even though they were only game characters, I knew that something like this must have happened. I stopped to think that these people could have had sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers... and how brightly their life's flame might have burned, leaving its mark on the world, were it not for the freakish storm that blew them all out at once. To think that any one person can instigate such thoughtless, ruinous destruction... words fail me. For them, Hell is too kind a thought.
I love an argument where everyone agrees about pretty much everything. xD

For sake of my own boredom, mostly~ Evil is a moral judgement, yes. As exemplified by the horrendous consequences of many mal-intentioned actions, evil exists. It is not a creepy shadow with glowing eyes who hides under our beds. Evil is acting upon dark desires and thoughts. I feel no shame in judging child molestation and genocide as evil. Sure, you could say a thought harms no one.

No one, that is, except the thinker. Our thoughts are the food of our minds. When we have poisonous ideas, we become poisonous. I don't mean to say that we should all be burned at the stake or taken to Room 101 for our inner darkness--but, at the same time, it is important to recognize what potential we each individually have to do terrible things. Only the individual can protect themselves from acting upon their thoughts. The more frequent the thought the stronger the urge to act upon it. If a person lusts after children, what would prevent them from finding child pornography if the person did not have a conscience? And what is a conscience if not a person's own moral judgments? When a company wants people to buy a product, they show frequent commercials to put French fries on the brain. Think about education, how children were once brain-washed by their textbooks into thinking this or that race of children just like them, was evil. The mind is humanity's most dangerous and powerful weapon. When we do not attempt to reject dark thoughts, we open ourselves to acting upon them. I chose "twisted" over "evil" because no, you're right, no child would be affected by mere thought unless that thought were connected to a reckless, selfish person's body.
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I believe that repression is more dangerous because it is essentially a denial of a part of yourself and that will manifest itself in either persistent depression or an explosion somewhere down the line where you really can't control your actions. In my opinion, embracing one's inner darkness, even when uncomfortable, allows for greater understanding, and thus, greater control.
I absolutely agree--in fact, this is the approach I (attempted to and possibly failed to~ xD) take in my argument: that only the indivual can edit themselves, and allowing lust to run wild can definitely be dangerous.

You deem those thoughts to be poisonous; I ask of you, do you consider your attraction to men as poisonous? If you were told you had to take a vow of celibacy this instant, what would happen? If you were told that not only were you unable to think about men in a sexual way, but that such thoughts would ultimately be your undoing, and would compel you to launch yourself on someone to relieve your sexual frustration, how would that make you feel?
I'm probably not a good example, as I've considered the nunnery xD However, that description is how the Church and other religious institutions have seen both male and female sexuality throughout history. I don't have a source but conjecture that cultural suppression of these instincts has let to the starved, unhealthy sexual culture today, where one is barely human if one's not consummating one's desires nightly. When unchecked, sexual thoughts and desires can cause unhealthy obsession and even loneliness because they are pleasurable, natural, and made to be acted upon with another person. When the focus of sexuality is sexuality, family units can fall apart because a spouse becomes unfaithful to meet their "need." Long-term relationships become superficial. Even in this scenario, raw sexual desire can be dangerous when "embracing" is translated to mean "fixating." It is the responsibility of every person to keep themselves from fixating on, anything, really--any kind of fixation is not only unhealthy but is also just as "learned" as brain-washing. Fixation, however, is self-imposed bombardment of information. I don't think fixation is any more unhealthy than suppression, but I don't see how it is any less healthy, either.

I also love how impressionistic my arguing and writing style is getting lately. I guess I'm just allowing my feelings more leeway; being persistently logical is hard work sometimes. Hopefully no factual errors result.
I don't say this because I originally made the statements: some morals are true to the point of being factual, for we can feel to the point of knowing. Morality is postulation: provable only in that it is difficult to disprove.

Meh, debate can be annoying when it becomes a question of "who" rather than "what" is right... sometimes--I love playing Devil's Advocate as much as the next person. xD
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