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Wrong ideals

1511 Views 14 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  DDrokenss
Hello INFPs,

I did a Myers-Briggs personality thingy and came out INFP. Made me feel pretty good about myself and sometimes still does.

But today I came here to ask you for help:sad:.
I am a rather idealistic person... and I think I was led to believe in the wrong ideals. I put a lot work, time and effort and also a lot of emotions into pushing some political ideals that I now do not believe in any more... actually "do not believe in anymore" is an understatement, for I now think those ideals are dangerous for the world.

I did not want to belive in the wrong kind of things again, so I tried having no ideals at all... did not work out. It left me feeling empty and useless.
I am also feeling very bad about myself for pushing the wrong kind of ideals. I even lied to do so. Well, I did not feel bad about me then. I thought I was aiding humanity, but now I do feel bad about me and think I am a failure and worthless.

I just thought you might understand.
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neoloGismaker said:
You wanna argue? Let's do it. Tell me that I'm incorrect on any of these points.
Okay, fine. Let's have at it!

Lusting after children is twisted.
How so? That depends, I believe, on your opinions of the nature of paedophilia as a phenomenon. I hold that paedophilia, along with any other paraphilia and/or aspect of human sexuality, is inherent to the individual and an involuntary response. Thus a person could conceivably be attracted to, and even 'lust after', a child, but due to their rational faculties and empathy towards people, would restrain themselves from acting. Terms like 'twisted' are simply subjective value judgments which depend on an individual's criteria. To me, the most important thing is one's actions, and that people are not harmed; therefore I cannot hold thoughts as evil in and of themselves. The same goes for potential murderers and such. The human psyche, for all its recurring patterns and apparent simplicity, is an unfathomably complex beast, and has many dark and unexplored crevices yet.

neoloGismaker said:
Raping a little kid is beyond evil.
Much like 'twisted', 'evil' is also a moral judgment. However, in this case, as the harm done to the individual is real and undeniable, I would agree with your assessment. Above and beyond that, from a rational perspective, the damage done to the child's psychological development is often devastating, and carries with it the potential to cause an individual to lash out at others for the abuse they have suffered, perhaps become abusers themselves, or perhaps against the odds they will conquer the trauma and use it to fuel future success; such people are rare. Nevertheless, it is entirely unjust and one of the purest forms of apathy and selfishness I can conceive.

neoloGismaker said:
Genocide is beyond evil.
Well, now, I don't know about that. I would quite happily sanction the genocide of a large portion of the criminal population, who have perpetrated unspeakable horrors against their fellow man and whose genetics, upbringing and psychological profile show they are beyond hope of redemption. I'm only half joking, you know. But I know that in reality it would be a horrible thing, as well as utterly impractical.

But again, genocide... I would consider to be the most repugnant act on this list. One is merely a thought; it harms nobody. Another slashes at a person's very being, leaving a devastating wound that will never fully heal. But genocide is... an unspeakable abomination. You know, when I look at statistics on a sheet of paper, when I see that a million people have died, it doesn't really affect me emotionally at all, because I'm incapable of comprehending such magnitude. I was playing a war game the other day, though, that showed scenes of the D-Day Normandy landing. Normally it doesn't bother me, but I saw them, these people, during the cinematics, talking of hopes, of dreams, and of focus, rushing onto the beach, only to be mowed down on the spot. It wasn't just one, or two... but tens, even hundreds of people, mowed down so mercilessly. Even though they were only game characters, I knew that something like this must have happened. I stopped to think that these people could have had sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers... and how brightly their life's flame might have burned, leaving its mark on the world, were it not for the freakish storm that blew them all out at once. To think that any one person can instigate such thoughtless, ruinous destruction... words fail me. For them, Hell is too kind a thought.

Right, now that that's done, @Homer Simpson, these are my words to you. It's not about the specifics, but the principles. It's unfair of you to be so hard on yourself for things you didn't know in the past. Ignorance is no great sin when one is able to freely admit their shortcomings and learn from them, and I am certain that, had you known then what you know now, you would have agreed with yourself in the present. Perhaps you had the facts wrong, you were a little misinformed... but you were fully committed to your cause, your heart in the right place. The principle is the same. If I were you, I would be able to hold my head up high. Rather than dwelling on what you didn't and perhaps even couldn't have known, I would instead look to the future and see what you can do next.
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neoloGismaker said:
I love an argument where everyone agrees about pretty much everything. xD
Hahaha, I read that over again and I kind of did agree with everything, didn't I? It just kind of came out of me. What can I say, I'm tired, that's my excuse. But just to refer back to what you said:

neoloGismaker said:
If a person lusts after children, what would prevent them from finding child pornography if the person did not have a conscience? And what is a conscience if not a person's own moral judgments?
That's just it: nothing would. However, I would be far more condemning of a person for their lack of conscience than I ever would for any thoughts they may have that I do not agree with. I also believe that, although the existence of child pornography is in itself a horror as for such a thing to exist, the events must have taken place, simply viewing it is, as far as criminal acts go, fairly innocuous. You deem those thoughts to be poisonous; I ask of you, do you consider your attraction to men as poisonous? If you were told you had to take a vow of celibacy this instant, what would happen? If you were told that not only were you unable to think about men in a sexual way, but that such thoughts would ultimately be your undoing, and would compel you to launch yourself on someone to relieve your sexual frustration, how would that make you feel? I know you can't really compare the two, as the power differentials and innocence that frequently accompanies childhood is vastly different to two adults, but it's the closest comparison I can come up with.

If I were put in that situation, though, I'll tell you - I wouldn't even allow myself to feel guilt - I'd balk at the suggestion. I believe that repression is more dangerous because it is essentially a denial of a part of yourself and that will manifest itself in either persistent depression or an explosion somewhere down the line where you really can't control your actions. In my opinion, embracing one's inner darkness, even when uncomfortable, allows for greater understanding, and thus, greater control. I really don't think that this sits on the same level as brainwashing, owing to my belief that sexual feelings are more inborn, whereas brainwashing and other forms of psychological manipulation are learned. That said, I do not deny that there is also a subset of people who, feeling as they do, are also deluded into thinking that their actions are not harmful. In such cases I am torn, as although I denounce their ignorance, I am not entirely without sympathy.

I also love how impressionistic my arguing and writing style is getting lately. I guess I'm just allowing my feelings more leeway; being persistently logical is hard work sometimes. Hopefully no factual errors result.
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