[honestfi]

So I was catching up with my (ENTP, female) boss today, about a meeting that I missed yesterday.

Without boring you with the intricate detail, in the course of the conversation I was given the impression that our client was expected to do something that I had previously had the understanding was our responsibility.

After breaking down the various elements of the problem (as NTPs do, gosh it's so enjoyable having a convo with someone genuinely NT), she starts getting flustered as it's nearly time for her to go home, and I found that the impression that she had given was not actually so. It is still our responsibility, it just needs clarification. From the client.

Twenty-odd minutes this took. So. WTF. I was left mighty confused. Tips please, on how to get an NTP convo to cut to the chase without repetition, hesitation or deviation.*


*For those not getting the reference, please see here kthx

 

[yesiknowbut]

Umm...just say? I don't find it a problem.

 

[eso]

just stare at her breasts...she'll get the point.
If that doesnt work the sort of moan or grunt alot

 

[yesiknowbut]

Yeah. That really works in a British board room with someone of your own gender...not.

 

[honestfi]

Thanks for giving me a smile on a "meh" morning, anyway.

Point is, we're both really bad at reading what the other is trying to say. Can't just "say" when we don't know (or the other has misunderstood) what to "say" anyway.

She gets ratty, I get ratty, and because we're both so damn stubborn we don't get anywhere. Need a plan on getting her to say what she means. Other ppl in the team have the same problem.

 

[yesiknowbut]

You sure she is ENTP? It doesn't sound right, we're usually pretty direct.

 

[vel]

does she seem to wander around all the kinds of different possibilities, just throw them out there, and give you little indication which one she has committed to and which one you should follow through?

when I feel ambiguity like this I usually try to make the other person commit to what I personally see is the most reasonable solution, unless of course it is an activity where ambiguity is welcome and is part of creative process - you can brainstorm for hours but at the end something has to be decided, nailed down, thus sprouting a plan of action

 

[honestfi]

You sure she is ENTP? It doesn't sound right, we're usually pretty direct.

Oh yes. And she's direct when she wants to be, but her command of English is sometimes lacking.

 

[honestfi]

does she seem to wander around all the kinds of different possibilities, just throw them out there, and give you little indication which one she has committed to and which one you should follow through?

Yes - leaving me confused as to which one she has committed to

when I feel ambiguity like this I usually try to make the other person commit to what I personally see is the most reasonable solution, unless of course it is an activity where ambiguity is welcome and is part of creative process - you can brainstorm for hours but at the end something has to be decided, nailed down, thus sprouting a plan of action

Trouble is, she's quite stubborn. If she's seen the route she wants to go, there is little you can do to persuade her otherwise. I know mine can be a better route, but she doesn't see it. There are little victories from time to time, as she's a manager, and albeit I'm just a grunt, I have more experience in the grass roots level.

 

[yesiknowbut]

Ok then

Sometimes I get into misunderstanding with my husband because we are both strongly expressed N types and we are speaking to what we are reading as the other's thoughts, two or three jumps ahead, rather than listening to what the other is saying and answering that. I'm a bit more concrete and can spot this happening sometimes, he is Fe-Ni and doesn't analyse, so can't. It makes for lovely arguments

If you are both Ne types it's quite possible you are dong this too, an it's not just her but the combination of you two that is the issue?

From your point of view it's worth being sure that you are responding to what she is saying rather than what she is thinking as far as you understand it, and it might help to use a mediation skill to reflect back to her what she has just said as she might be a few jumps ahead by now? Like, "I see. So what you are saying is....and we should.....is that right?" You might then be able to pin her down to just what she is driving at.

It comes across also that you don't like her as well, though, and that doesn't help. Don't have a clever solution for that.

 

[vel]

Yes - leaving me confused as to which one she has committed to

Her main function is perceiving, not judging, making a judgement is only secondary to her but primary to you. So if you are feeling like her perceiving function is too ambiguous for you, ask her to clarify what she wants, make her commit.

Trouble is, she's quite stubborn. If she's seen the route she wants to go, there is little you can do to persuade her otherwise. I know mine can be a better route, but she doesn't see it. There are little victories from time to time, as she's a manager, and albeit I'm just a grunt, I have more experience in the grass roots level.

Well this is a separate thing from the question you were originally asking. Your question was about how to deal with her ambiguity, stubbornness is not related to this. Afaik ENTPs are known to be quite stubborn - she might look sort of 'spread out' on the outside but inside there is a strongly structured core.

 

[honestfi]

Sometimes I get into misunderstanding with my husband because we are both strongly expressed N types and we are speaking to what we are reading as the other's thoughts, two or three jumps ahead, rather than listening to what the other is saying and answering that. I'm a bit more concrete and can spot this happening sometimes, he is Fe-Ni and doesn't analyse, so can't. It makes for lovely arguments

If you are both Ne types it's quite possible you are dong this too, an it's not just her but the combination of you two that is the issue?

Hmmmmm yeah.:blushed: Realised I skirted round that in my original post, I knew it, but didn't state it. Hey ho at least I'm true to type.:laughing:

From your point of view it's worth being sure that you are responding to what she is saying rather than what she is thinking as far as you understand it, and it might help to use a mediation skill to reflect back to her what she has just said as she might be a few jumps ahead by now? Like, "I see. So what you are saying is....and we should.....is that right?" You might then be able to pin her down to just what she is driving at.

Fab advice. I'll use it.

It comes across also that you don't like her as well, though, and that doesn't help. Don't have a clever solution for that.

No worries on that score. She knows me, and knows I'm INTP. She doesn't take anything personal most of the time.