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Discussion Starter #1
As we all know ;) there are phobic and counterphobic 6s. I've seen a thread about shame and countershame 3s, as well... but why do most types not come in those flavours? Or is only limited to primary types? (what about 9s, then? Are there two kinds of Nines?)
 
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As we all know ;) there are phobic and counterphobic 6s. I've seen a thread about shame and countershame 3s, as well... but why do most types not come in those flavours? Or is only limited to primary types? (what about 9s, then? Are there two kinds of Nines?)
One of those things you mentioned was a feeling the 3 gets from a function, and phobia is a reaction to anxiety. I don't know if they're equivalent to compare.

This topic in the past has shown to lead to the direction of disintegration.
 

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There are counter-anger 9s, yeah.

IIRC, it has to do with the primary types being the most "out of touch" with what it means to be of their triad. 3s don't trust their feelings, 6s don't trust their thinking, and 9s don't trust their anger. You get more variation within the primary types because of this... Thus the counter behavior. The other types are more "in tune" with what it is to be of their respective triad, though in addition to "out of touch," there's over-expression (2,5,8) and under-expression (4,7,1).

I think there was a thread detailing how each type had possible counter behaviors, but IMO @Wake is right that it's more about disintegration than true "countering." Of course all types can be unhealthy, but by no means is a counter-3/6/9 unhealthy by default.
 

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There are counter-anger 9s, yeah.

IIRC, it has to do with the primary types being the most "out of touch" with what it means to be of their triad. 3s don't trust their feelings, 6s don't trust their thinking, and 9s don't trust their anger.
Well, why 3s are said to have shame is the question. I read a description here which tells about them masking their authentic expressions and adapting because they're afraid of not gaining acceptance without this change of image. A 3 who is counter-shame would not have this fear, and not have an image at all but embrace authenticity, similar to how a CP6 will act overly aggressive when threatened.

To me it seems that a 9 who grows angry instead of trying to get rid of it is a disintegrating 9 because they're throwing away their belief in inner peace.

I think there is actually something to the instantaneousness of the reaction which can be found in a CP6. For a moment they decide to go against this feeling which controls them and then they want to go back to their normal Enneagram's state. How well this tendency has support in the short term is the question, and I don't really see it applying to 3s, maybe 9s to resolve issues and vent frustrations.


You get more variation within the primary types because of this... Thus the counter behavior. The other types are more "in tune" with what it is to be of their respective triad, though in addition to "out of touch," there's over-expression (2,5,8) and under-expression (4,7,1).
Got a source for this theory regarding over/under-expression or mind explaining it a little better?
 

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Well, why 3s are said to have shame is the question. I read a description here which tells about them masking their authentic expressions and adapting because they're afraid of not gaining acceptance without this change of image. A 3 who is counter-shame would not have this fear, and not have an image at all but embrace authenticity, similar to how a CP6 will act overly aggressive when threatened.
I was under the impression that the "typical" 3 was counter-shame, but the shame 3 was supposed to appear more humble (not authentic). It was discussed in this thread and, admittedly, I haven't done a ton of research into 3 and 9's counter dynamic.

To me it seems that a 9 who grows angry instead of trying to get rid of it is a disintegrating 9 because they're throwing away their belief in inner peace.
But a disintegrating 9 goes to 6, which means more anxiety. A 9's attempt to get rid of anger isn't exactly healthy, either. Apparently (and this comes from a PerC 9), 9s get frustrated quite often but don't express it. I imagine it's similar to how many 6s don't realize how anxious they are, a sort of awareness but an ability to push it aside.

I've known a counter-anger 9w1 who acted much how one would expect a 9 to act like, but mostly only in public; behind closed doors he would express a lot of frustration at the world. I type him as a 9 because he's always striving for (inner) peace and has very little of the existential anxiety of 6 (I originally thought he was 6w5).

I think there is actually something to the instantaneousness of the reaction which can be found in a CP6. For a moment they decide to go against this feeling which controls them and then they want to go back to their normal Enneagram's state. How well this tendency has support in the short term is the question, and I don't really see it applying to 3s, maybe 9s to resolve issues and vent frustrations.
I'll have to think about this, but maybe my previous comments in this post has helped a little?
My first thought, though, is that it's not as much of a pendulum effect as implied here. For 6s, most of the ones who are obviously cp or phobic live as cp or phobic. Cp'ers aren't normally phobic, but can indeed "switch modes" for a period of time. Same for phobics.

Got a source for this theory regarding over/under-expression or mind explaining it a little better?
I wish I did. Came across it on EIDB. I'm a bit sick right now and not capable of the patience it requires to wade through the past posts. I'll try to summon up the motivation later or find an alternate source.

Interesting note I just realized, though... They share the same types as the object-relation triads.
 

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I was under the impression that the "typical" 3 was counter-shame, but the shame 3 was supposed to appear more humble (not authentic). It was discussed in this thread and, admittedly, I haven't done a ton of research into 3 and 9's counter dynamic.
Hmm... thoughts about their image or the deeper thoughts reflecting their image. I don't think their own character necessarily has to be something they feel shame in and doesn't apply to all 3s.


But a disintegrating 9 goes to 6, which means more anxiety. A 9's attempt to get rid of anger isn't exactly healthy, either. Apparently (and this comes from a PerC 9), 9s get frustrated quite often but don't express it. I imagine it's similar to how many 6s don't realize how anxious they are, a sort of awareness but an ability to push it aside.
To carry it and melt down is different than a counter-anger moment and release it.


I've known a counter-anger 9w1 who acted much how one would expect a 9 to act like, but mostly only in public; behind closed doors he would express a lot of frustration at the world. I type him as a 9 because he's always striving for (inner) peace and has very little of the existential anxiety of 6 (I originally thought he was 6w5).
Ya, my mom is that way. I think it's partially comfort in who they're releasing it on, and for that reason do not mind a bit of a vent. She always displaces anger though because she holds so much in. Perhaps it is a little more complicated than strictly reactionary.


I'll have to think about this, but maybe my previous comments in this post has helped a little?
My first thought, though, is that it's not as much of a pendulum effect as implied here. For 6s, most of the ones who are obviously cp or phobic live as cp or phobic. Cp'ers aren't normally phobic, but can indeed "switch modes" for a period of time. Same for phobics.
Most phobics I'm aware of have CP moments and issues, but are very much phobic and their is much gradient. Others like DJArendee who is now retired (bitchary) seemed to make this toughness part of their way of interacting best, probably their self-image also.
 

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Hmm... after taking a harder look into that thread there maybe some truth to that about 3s. I'll have to think about that matter more.
 

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I think Katherine Fauvre mentioned--I can't remember where, when--something about each type's vice being transmuted into a counter-vice. So if sevens tend towards gluttony and excess, the counter-vice would be austerity...but austerity to excess, nonetheless.

I know that doesn't answer the question exactly, but it's something to consider. I witness this rather flagrantly in my own life and it was one of the many reasons I couldn't figure out my type--I'm so anti-materialistic, -overindulgence, and -exuberant happiness. Could just be my overbearing 1- and 5-connections, though.

I think you're on to something @aconite.
 

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I'm fairly new to the enneagram and I skimmed through this quite rapidly (1AM here), but I believe two things are getting mixed up: the primary emotion related to each triad, and the primary vice related to each type.

I found timeless's post in thread posted by @Paradigm particularly interesting. He explained (briefly) how each instinctual type can experience counter-anger, how each image type can experience counter-shame and how each head type can experience counter-fear. So according to this, all types might have a certain counter-variant.

I believe it's most outspoken in the primary types since their primary emotion has the most overlap with their primary vice (and the other types' vices can indeed be seen as over- or under-expression of these vices, now I think about it). Anyway:
-Sixes' fear-anxiety is the most obvious.
-Trees' shame-deceit is a bit less apparent, but not that far fetched and has already been discussed before.
-Nines' anger-sloth, well...

I had not read about counter-anger 9s before, but I have read about counter-slothic 9s. In one of the questionnaires, this link was posted by Ylajali. I think the quote grasps the essence of it (but if you have time to read the full page, it's quite an interesting read):

I would actually say that I am hyper aware. Most 9s are described as being the least people aware on the Enneagram. But due to counter-slothia, I am actually the most highly aware type, the one most fundamentally connected to spirit. Counter-slothic nines are afraid of not being aware. They will do anything within their grasp to become more aware of themselves, except they neglect actually taking action in their lives. Action can be put off till later, as long as introspection and navel gazing is maintained. That's why 9s can be extremely aware and yet avoid what needs to be done. Counter-slothic 9s problems is not a lack of awareness, but an overabundance and over-focus on awareness. They fall asleep to their body, their actions, drawing attention to themselves, and fall asleep to life in general. The problem they have is difficulty taking action in the world and becoming a real person instead of a disembodied spirit.

Counter-slothic 9s focus so much on how they are different from others rather than on the similarities, because of their alignment to their inner world and the rejection of the outer world. The focus is on disconnection, not relating, not merging, and the frustration of not belonging in the universe. Specifically there is the object relation of how much more awake they are than other people, not seeing how ineffectual and asleep they actually are. There is an identification with the self-image of being aware which is in direct opposition to the actual lack of awareness of their true nature - who they really are.
I'm not entirely sure how to connect the dots, but I would say the (counter-)anger of the 9 can lead to a rejection of the outer world in favor of the inner realm. Of course, all of this is put to an extreme, but I could relate to it and it made me see the 9 description in a new perspective (before I did not relate to the happy, unaware and go-with-the-flow profiles at all).
I would say my (counter-)sloth is indeed intellectualization. I'm prone to spend more time building theorems and contemplating than actually doing something. But I have always known that I am susceptible to this pattern, and I don't let it drag on for too long (anymore). So as all things taken with moderation it's in essence not really a bad thing. Letting it take over your life (as in the quote and link, and how it has been here for a while) is.

---
@aconite
Thank you for starting this interesting thread. I'm excited to see what ideas will emerge next.
 

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@apple pie, how does anger connect to intellectualism? I've always considered anger to be a rather primitive reaction and it's dealings are very much a knee-jerk reaction.
 

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@apple pie, how does anger connect to intellectualism? I've always considered anger to be a rather primitive reaction and it's dealings are very much a knee-jerk reaction.
Mhh.. you seem to have missed a few steps. But it’s true that:
  • I probably should have used the word ‘contemplation’ instead of ‘intellectualization’
  • Counter-anger 9s and counter-slothic 9s are two different manifestations (I read some more in the counter-anger thread and I don’t really relate to it, as I generally don’t like the raw displayal of anger either)
But in essence, both movements seem to have their roots in anger. Nines have a rather ‘angelic’ image, but in fact they do have a lot of supressed anger (even if they don’t always realize it themselves):
  • CA 9s seem to somewhat quietly but constantly vent out this anger.
  • CS 9s seem to supress this anger to the point were they basically don’t want to deal with conflict at all...
^
CS 9s focus on how different they are, how the world tramples on their idea of ‘holy love’ and withdraw. As opposed to the regular 9s they don’t deal with this conflict by looking outside of themselves (so they could ignore these problems by getting ‘absorbed’ in the outside world), but they look for serenity and peace inside themselves (as they came to reject the outer world).
Now, by looking inside the CS 9s are faced with the 9’s fundamental fear: (inner) voidness. So the CS 9s will do anything to become more aware of themselves. They go in overdrive contemplation, while they neglect to take action in the real world (and are ironically still fully aware of this).

Now I might be mainly talking about myself, but some interesting pattern I noticed in the little information that I found is that CS 9s always seem to be 9w1s and are usually tripple withdrawn.
  • The 1 wing and it’s resentment caused by the discripancy ideal-reality seems to add the idealism needed to reject the outer world.
  • During their overdrive contemplation and search for awarement the CS 9 becomes obsessed with the ideal self, their image and their knowledge. As a result, a lot of similar 4/5 and 9 patterns as introjection vs merging, identity vs emptiness, detachment vs awarement, nihilism vs annihilation etc. start to merge (so I’m actually getting more convinced that the tritype just indicates how the core type deals with different tirads). So most CS 9s easily mistake themselves for a 4w5 or a 5w4.
All this is essentially not harmfull, as long as you keep actively living your life. The problem is that CS 9s usually just do the minimum, while they keep dreaming and spin their wheels. Because their basic tendency is to withdraw, and because they are afraid that upon entering the real world and following their dreams their inner emptiness will be exposed and become reality. So they do nothing and paradoxically become ‘nobody’ (especially when compared with their own skyhigh expectations).
Once you have reached the end of this cycle and came to this realisation, the key to all this becomes even more apparent than it has always been: reconsile with the outer world and act upon your ideals. Letting out anger is good too. I don’t supress it as much anymore, but I don’t lash out either. I just try to deal with it and talk it over.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Counter-anger 9s and counter-slothic 9s are two different manifestations (I read some more in the counter-anger thread and I don`t really relate to it, as I generally don`t like the raw displayal of anger either)
So, does the "counter" thing relate to the core vice of the type (sloth in 9 case) or the triad (anger)?
 

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So, does the "counter" thing relate to the core vice of the type (sloth in 9 case) or the triad (anger)?
That's what I was wondering, too, after thinking about it. How are we defining the terms?

If we take 6 as an example, the "typical" 6 is phobic and the "atypical" 6 is counter-phobic. This leads me to think that the anger/shame titles for 9/3 are inaccurate, or at least not following the same pattern. I realized that "counter-anger," to me, implies "avoiding anger," which is pretty typical 9.
My thesaurus-fu skills are poor lately, though... Can't think of any better terms atm. And as @apple pie mentioned, "(counter-)sloth" isn't the same as expressing anger.

Got a source for this theory regarding over/under-expression or mind explaining it a little better?
Here you go. From a book and everything :wink:

Let me know if it doesn't work.

Also, I'm curious about how you understand cp/p 6s. Do you think all 6s are essentially phobic, or that they all show phobic behaviors at most times? Apologies, I'm just wondering if we're on the same page.
 

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Am I derailing the thread with CS9s or is there a gap in the Enneagram?

So, does the "counter" thing relate to the core vice of the type (sloth in 9 case) or the triad (anger)?
There you have nailed it!

:crazy:

I admit there was some ambiguity in my posts about that. By the time of my first post, I thought that counter-movements probably centered more around the vices of the types than the emotions related to the triads (due to CS9’s correlation with the vice). By the time of my second post, I had read a bit more about various counter-emotions, got confused and thought there might be some mutual influence.

Now that I have done some more research I believe that most of the counter-movements are just related to the triad-emotion:
  • All types have counter-emotions that correspond with their triad. They just manifest most cleary in the primary types. CS3, CP6 and CA9 fit this category (but CA9 fits it less i.m.o.).
    @Paradigm: so the terms are probably correct after all (phobic could really refer to either anxiety or fear, and CS9 appears to be something different). Sorry for the confusion.
  • Type 9 also has a CS9 subtype that displays counter-behavior based on the type’s vice (and fixation).

COUNTER-EMOTIONS

After exploring some different paths, it really seems to be as simple as timeless stated in the counter-anger thread:

The head types (5,6,7) all are counter-fear in their own way. 6 is like a center point, with 5 mirroring phobic six (retreat and survey the territory before acting to overcome fear) and 7 mirroring counter-phobic six (get super-active to distract yourself from fear), with six having both characteristics as it's in the center.
Counter-behavior manifests most clearly in the primary types because they hold the most variety. The other types are more ‘counter’ or ‘regular’ by default.
(Somehow the body-triad does not entirely fit the bill though, I’m more inclined to see 9s as ‘counter’ and 1s as the ambiverts?)

I think the various Counter-X motivations are what drive the day-to-day activities of the types. In fact, I would say that the Counter-X drives are the bridge between the deep-seated inner fixations of the Enneatypes (e.g. the virtues) and the outward characteristics and actions of each type.
This rings very true as well. The fixation can be dealt with by giving in to the vice (stress) or by pursuing the virtue (growth). The emotion related to the triad plays a role in this.
  • The emotion leads the fixation to the vice (e.g. anger + judging = resentment).
  • The counterindulgent-emotion leads the fixation to the virtue (e.g. counterindulgent-anger + judging = serenity).
By the counterindulgent emotion I do not mean the same thing as the counter-emotion, nor the emotion nor the absence of the emotion. I.m.o. it’s really more about how to stop indulging the emotion (either by overexpression / ‘counter’ or by oversupression) and how to *counter* (basically just deal with it) in a mature manner.
So the so called counter-anger 9s are probably more... anger 9s. They overexpress their anger, whereas most 9s oversurpress it. But they both lead to indifference. True counterindulgent-anger is about how to stop being angry because you’re angry (same goes for shame and axiety) and give it a place. No? OMG I’m rambling!



(I made this chart based on timeless’ articles, info on the enneagraminstitute and some more ‘random’ googeling. There was some ambiguity on the virtue of 9s and 1s, as different sources had them swapped. But I can see how they could be interchangeable, and it also plays a role in the next part: [see below]) -- and yes, it says 'counterindulgement-emotion' instead of 'counterindulgent-emotion', but I'm too *lazy* to edit and change it, hoho!

COUNTER-VICE

There is also a specific type of 9 that counters their vice because their fixation seems to have settled differently (yet the same). The world corrupts the 9’s holy idea of love:
  • The solution for 9s is to withdraw from oneselves and get absorbed in the outside world.
  • The solution for CS9s is to withdraw from the world and get absorbed in themselves.
(I actually still remember my loss of ‘holy love’ (wouldn’t have called it that way though). It was my first day at kindergarden. So I don’t believe you suddenly take on this counter-state or meander between the two. Since most 6s do seem to switch or even ‘practice’ CP, it’s the thing that got me thinking that CS9 is different from other counter-states. And I indeed couldn’t detect such 180 degree flips in the other profiles. Then again, I am not that knowledgeable about 3s and 6s, so if any of them would like to share their thoughts, I would be happy to read it.)

Anyway, by countering their vice, an illusion of truth is created. This is a state of stagnance, but due to the gap in the enneagram that doesn’t properly define the virtues of 9s & 1s, they can (dis)integrate as well:
  • 9s rely on indifference (sloth in mind) to maintain the illusion that their inner concerns aren’t a problem. Action leads them to stagnation, but serenity leads them to their growth point of 3, as they become more in tune with their inner thoughts and desires.
  • CS9s rely on indifference (sloth in action) to maintain the illusion that their outer concerns aren’t a problem. Serenity leads them to stagnation, but action leads them to their growth point of 3, as they become more in tune with realising their inner thoughts and desires in the outer world.

----
So, a somewhat debateable middle position of 9 and unproperly defined virtues:
Is there really something off about the gut-triad or am I talking bu//s#!t at 5:45 AM? (couldn't sleep before I had finished this)

:shocked:

Anyway, this was my brainstorming and I would like to hear yours!

And to those who have read my ennea-questionnaire:
I have stated it before! I really have a gift to make all things complicated! Yi-ha!

:crazy:
 

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HEY YOU GUYS!!!

I randomly found this article copied onto the EIDB forums, here. It's exactly what we were all talking about here. Take a look:

Passion and Counterpassion
Is Type Six different from the others? Or do other types portray similar dualistic characteristics?
Fabien and Patricia Chabreuil
When learning the Enneagram, many people are surprised to discover that, unlike other types, point Six has two expressions of personality: phobic and counterphobic. This phenomenon is often perceived as an anomaly. It is difficult to understand why only point Six has two distinct versions. One begins to wonder whether this dualistic approach may be applied to other types. Some existing Enneagram literature does suggest a two entity approach to all the types, not just Six.

In the May 1996 issue of Enneagram Monthly, Claudio Naranjo attributed the difference between the two forms of Six to its subtypes. He affirmed that it was possible to generalize this approach to all the types. For example, the sexual subtype of Four, Competition, he described as "competitive and hateful," the social Four was "shy and melodramatic;" and the Self Preservation Four looked very much like a One and was more self-contained or "counter-dependent" and didn't look like a Four at all. [1]

Admittedly, people of the same type can appear extremely different due to their subtype. For example, there is a strong connection between the phobic-counterphobic duality and the Six subtypes: the Self-preserving (warmth) and the Social (duty) Six are more often phobic and the Sexual (strength-beauty) Six is usually counterphobic. However, the duality of the Six seems to have another aspect: the subtypes are different ways of living the emotional passion. Whereas the Six's phobic and counterphobic duality centers on the awareness or the denial of fear. Similarly, the sexual Four cited by Naranjo doesn't deny his passion of envy; he knows he wants to have something that someone else has and is competitive in order to acquire it.

Another approach consists of remembering that the difference between phobic and counterphobic Sixes is only a different way to name what Oscar Ichazo called the dichotomy of the Six: pushy-surrender. Ichazo assigned a dichotomy to each type. Thus, in theory, the Six duality echoes Ichazo's standard. By using dichotomies, we could consider two distinct versions in each type. [2]

However, here again, the phobic-counterphobic duality of the Six differs from other points. Ichazo's dichotomies define each type's two ways of living in what he calls one of the nine domains of consciousness (Feelings; Health and security; Creativity; Intellect; Social; Work, activities and leisure; Power, hierarchy and rank; Law and moral; Spirituality). These domains are indirectly connected to each type's passion.

To further illustrate this train of thought, we'll analyze with more precision the phobic and counterphobic duality of Six.

Phobic and Counterphobic Sixes
Three concepts are central to understanding the phobic-counterphobic duality of the Six:

1. The duality of the Six is in direct relationship to its passion: fear. In both cases, fear (like the other characteristics of the type) is present. Phobic Sixes know that they're afraid and show it. Counterphobic Sixes also are afraid; however, they deny their fear and seek to prove to others, and themselves, that they can distroy the danger.

2. Counterphobic Sixes often believe that they're practicing the virtue of their type: courage. However, counterphobia is severe and cutthroat.

Some Sixes, and even other types, may find this difficult to admit because the passions in the triangle (3-6-9) are universal emotions. Many people tend to believe that courage is needed to control fear. In fact, fear is the passion of Sixes, the chief feature of the emotional center of their egos; whereas, courage is the virtue of the type, the function of the higher emotional center of their essence. Thus, as long as there is the passion of fear, there is ego. This is sometimes easier to understand in relation to other types. For example, Ones can easily admit that patience does not consist of feeling the anger, then repressing it, and behaving patiently. This is not virtue, it is reaction-formation, the Ones' principal defense mechanism. True patience is immediate, not preceded by anger. [3]

The majority of Sixes' fears are unrealistic and do not have to be felt (phobic) or be denied (counterphobic). An integrated Six can occasionally feel fear if:
- the fear corresponds to a real danger;
- the fear is not the principal focus of attention;
- the fear is accepted, but not prolonged, amplified, extended to other circumstances, or projected on other people.
In that case, fear is a normal emotion, a positive signal pointing out the reality of the environment. The Six's relationship with fear is summarized below:

The Six is conscious of fear The Six is not conscious of fear
The situation is objectively dangerous The fear is a normal emotion and is not a manifestation of the passion.
The virtue of courage is lived or not. Counterphobia
There is no objective danger Phobia Counterphobia


Definition of the notion of Counterpassion
Once this analysis is made, it becomes relatively easy to identify an analogous phenomenon in the other eight types. One of our students, Bénédicte Gasnier, suggested the term "counterpassion" to describe the same emotional quality expressed in two different ways.

People are expressing their counterpassion if they are:
1 …living in their passion;
2 …not conscious of their passion and denying it openly;
3 …behaving in a manner contrary to the attitude which would be induced by their passion;
4 …attaching a positive value to these behaviors. They may confuse counterpassion and integration, especially if they know the Enneagram and assume these behaviors resemble the virtue aspect of their type.

At the same time, this concept does not change the structure of the type: its preferred center, passion or fixation. As with point Six, these structures remain the same whether the person behaves from passion or counterpassion.

The Counterpassions of Each Type
Some brief examples of the counterpassions of the nine Enneagram types.



One: Renouncement
The passion of Ones is anger. The counterpassion of Ones is a caricature of the virtue of patience; in these moments, Ones want to be tolerant, neutral, and objective. They let others get away with errors. They think they are indulgent, magnanimous and understanding of others. Nevertheless, Ones notice errors, which shows that they are still being judgmental. Anger bubbles up inside them even if they are not aware of it. Ones' counterpassion is close to, if not equivalent to, its principal defense mechanism, reaction-formation, and consequently is one of the most thoroughly discussed counterpassions in classic type descriptions.

Two: Self-effacing
The passion of Twos is pride. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of humility. In these moments, Twos want to keep themselves in the background and say that they are nothing much. For example, they might affirm that their assistance was only a small act of helpfulness among many others. They can also insist that what others bring to them is richer than their contribution, or that the love they give does not come from them, that they are merely a channel for love. Pride is there, of course, and the Twos did nothing but refocus the attention: it is not about being proud of the assistance that they bring, but of their false humility.

Three: Self-restraint
The passion of Threes is deceit. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of truth in which Threes try to appear reserved and discrete. When in counterpassion, Threes do not exhibit their achievements or they down-play them; they center their attention and their interest on the other. Threes may consider themselves shy, or others may perceive them as shy. In reality, this reserved approach regarding success and competence is an unconscious action to lower expectations and thereby avoid failure, or minimize its possible effects.

Four: Self-sufficiency
The passion of Fours is envy. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of contentment. At that time, Fours want to appear self-sufficient. They claim to be satisfied with who they are and what they have. What others have that they lack is hence useless, devoid of interest and they are happy to do without. In French literature, there is a famous fable, by Jean de La Fontaine, that describes the counterpassion of the Four and reveals a transparent haughtiness and the persistence of envy.

The Fox and the Grapes
(Book III, fable 11)
Translated by Norman B. Spector

A certain Gascon Fox, a Norman one others say,
Famished, saw on a trellis, up high to his chagrin,
Grapes, clearly ripe that day,
And all covered with purple skin.
The rogue would have had a meal for the gods,
But, having tried to reach them in vain,
"They're too green," he said, "and just suitable for clods."

Didn't he do better than to complain?

Five: Extravagance
The passion of Fives is avarice. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of unselfishness. Then Fives want to appear generous. They will give an enormous amount of information about their subject of interest, holding mini-conferences about almost any situation. Avarice is there, however, because they manage to give this information to people who do not desire it and, thus, inevitably will not understand it or use it. Sometimes Fives unconsciously give subtly incomplete or veiled answers.

Six: Temerity
The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a overcompensation from fear. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature.

Seven: Austerity
The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.

Eight: Waryness
The passion of Eights is excess and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of simplicity. In which case, Eights want to appear careful, measured and decent. They are reticent, hold back their anger; and may choose an ascetic way of life. However, even in these circumstances, Eights continue to go to extremes. An excess of simplicity is still excess. In Eights, the passion-counterpassion duality resembles Ichazo's term for the Eight's dichotomy, hedonist-puritan.

Nine: Hyperactivity
The passion of Nines is sloth and the counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of activity. Nines are then hyperactive, perpetually agitated and overloaded with tasks. Although they often produce quantities of work effectively, idleness is still present: these activities are practical but have the effect that the more Nines do, the more they forget themselves. This counterpassion is one of the first we observed, and we interpreted it at the time that these Nines use work and activities as a means of narcotisation (their principal defense mechanism).
An even more subtle form of Nine's counterpassion is a hyperactive pursuit personal development. Such Nines devour books, workshops, therapists, and gurus. They profess to thirst after self-knowledge; however, they end up spinning their wheels, changing nothing.

Using the Concept of Counterpassion
The interest in using this counterpassion concept is two-fold and once again, we can apply what we have observed with the examples of phobic and counterphobic Six to all types.

The first application is educational. As teachers and impassioned lovers of the Enneagram, we want people to benefit from this extraordinary system and, of course, it all starts with identifying one's type.

Counterphobic Sixes typically have difficulty identifying their Enneagram type. This is normal since counterphobia encourages them to deny the principal characteristic of their type, fear. Sometimes this type is difficult to identify from the outside for the same reason. However, Sixes are not the only ones with this problem. In all other types, there are people who identify with the passion of their respective type or with its counterpassion. Being familiar with this distinction allows people who are more identified with counterpassion to more easily identify their types, and begin the Enneagram path of psycho-spiritual development.

Understanding the concept of counterpassion decreases the likelihood of misinterpreting our true motives and state of development For example, counterphobic Sixes often believe they are practicing the virtue of courage when they are actually expressing the counterphobic qualities of foolhardiness. Therefore, instead of letting go of their passion, they fight it and try to master it. All the other types may make the same mistake believing they are connected to the virtue of their type while they are actually living out their counterpassion. For example, one of our type Seven students described the way he used this mechanism: "By suppressing the wordplay and mental chatter of Seven, I have become a sinister and haughty individual, without any spontaneity." We know many people who have made the same error, and have not always escaped this tendency ourselves. The discovery of the concept of counterpassion has helped us and we hope it will also help others.
 

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Seven: Austerity
The passion of Sevens is gluttony. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of sobriety or temperance. Sevens may then practice excessive self-control. They want to appear to be serious. They don't allow themselves any joy or rest. They limit their mental capacities, by either underusing them or focalizing them too much. They are proud of this seriousness that gives them a sort of masochistic happiness. The passion of gluttony appears as an excess of control. More is better: the battle cry of Sevens is still present, only now its focus has changed.
Thanks, holyrockthrower! Counter types can really confuse. But it's interesting to read this since I found out today that social Sevens (which that above Seven counterpassion description is really about) make the counter type of Sevens no matter how odd does that sound. This was highly informative too. I kinda wish I had found this earlier, it might have made me realize my core type sooner :)


Taking advantage of your post, I post Naranjo´s depiction of Social Sevens below.

SOCIAL 7
Passion: “SOCIAL SACRIFICE¨
¨Brother Sun, Sister Moon¨

It’s the Counter-7: Sacrifices his/her gluttony in the pursuit of a social benefit, the postponement of desires for one ideal.
The gluttony in this case is focused in the desire of being seen as very, very good, almost Saintly.
Have gluttony for recognition of their sacrifice.
The key word is SACRIFICE but it’s a narcissistic sacrifice because they want to be appreciated in return. They sacrifice their pleasure for an ideal, for Goodness = Goodness for applause.

They are the most austere of all Sevens. The good boy/girl who makes sacrifices for the world. Too pure. Altar Boys, Boy & Girl Scouts, Hippies. They need to be seen as good kids.
Good for a benefit. Idealism focused on Social things
More accepting of limits than other subtypes. High sense of responsibility.
Eagerness to please, thirst of recognition and popularity. They need to shine (like 3s) but projecting the image of BEING GOOD, ALMOST SAINTLY.

-Desire for PURITY.

-Childish.
-More connected with guilt, more idealistic.
-Utopian & Idealist. Reach ideal of perfection-like Ones-, but in the Social 7 it's not innate perfectionism, it's forced.
-Sly & shrewd with face of good boys/girls, they always get what they want.
-Generous but not selfless. They can lie and manipulate (but always thru good manners), but without noticing their strings attached.

They keep talking about their sacrifices for the common good.
They long for a ¨highest kind of pleasure¨, being next to God.Many Priests and Nuns belong to this subtype.
-They are more hard-working (more focused), less fickle than the other subtypes..
More Fivish, they are not so visible or extroverts.

-The most faithful of all Sevens, they only cheat in their fantasies. It doesn’t match being pure & promiscuous. Before ¨temptation¨, they can hold themselves back easily unlike the Sx & Sp who can’t.
-Helpful with others, but usually expect a reward. Their generosity has a hidden agenda.
-They help everyone without regards, unlike the SP 7 who just helps those of their convenience (and whose can take advantage of later)

When you need something in the social arena, you need recognition and approval. What´s the best way to get this? Being GOOD. They try to be good according to social consensus.

The most sober and introverted of 7s. Concerned about diet, image, etc.
Usually self-sacrficing, takes the burden of family, children, etc.

Example: St. Francis of Assisi (note: in order to understand this subtype, he recommended watching ¨Brother Sun, Sister Moon¨). " We are all brothers and sisters¨

Mistypings: can be mistytped as Social 9s for the two subtypes are very much alike.
Can be confused also with Twos.


That made me really amazed since it manages to combine my image issues, need for freedom and also for admiration which may even make me to please others to get what I want, my enthusiasm, curiosity and kindness, that I'm a restless hippie lover, utopistic, idealistic and child-like. It even explains why I recognize some compliance issues even when I'm a Seven. Although I'm not that responsible as described here... But ugh, I just hate how narcissistic this makes social Sevens look like and yet I know it's true. Well, luckily I also have some good qualities ^_^
 

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I consider myself a conter-envy 4... In place losing myself envying others and what I don't have, I try my best to have something others don't and to be glad of my individuality and uniqueness.
 
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