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What role does your 8th function play in your life, you know, that inferior subconscious one?

For me, that's Ti. I feel like I can use ration and logic along with the best of them as regards other people, but when it comes to myself, it's like I end up just picking myself and situations apart until there is nothing left.

I especially interested in how INTPs and ISTPs relate to their Fi. But I want to hear how all types think/feel toward their 8th function.
 

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With Si as my 8th, I find myself knowing and remembering things that I didn't know I knew or would remember. The sad part is that it never helps when I need it to help. It just shows up whenever it wants, and will leave me all alone just as soon. And forget remembering physical details (colors, size, etc.).
 

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The "8th function" is not something we can make healthy use of, as it conflicts with our dominant preferred function. This does not mean, however, that it has no influence on our cognitive processes. In fact, in the Socionics Model A for function order, the 8th function is actually placed in the 3rd function slot, to represent its place in consciousness. As a "rejected function" it is something that one is aware of, but still feels pressure from.

For example, as an INTP my 8th function is Fi. Typically, the main influence of Fi on my personality is the pressure it exerts on me to not vocalize my thoughts or opinions so as to avoid hurting my relationships with others. In essence, it calls me to suppress my Ti. Unfortunately, I am rather incompetent with actually reading the social feedback that Fi would give, so doesn't actually give me good insight on when I should feel comfortable saying what I'd like to say. This gets better as I get to know people better, but it can be quite unpleasant at first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The "8th function" is not something we can make healthy use of, as it conflicts with our dominant preferred function. This does not mean, however, that it has no influence on our cognitive processes. In fact, in the Socionics Model A for function order, the 8th function is actually placed in the 3rd function slot, to represent its place in consciousness. As a "rejected function" it is something that one is aware of, but
This is why I thought it might be interesting for us to think about that process we can't consciously use but obviously still has some influence on us.
 
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Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point.
Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it.

It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles.
These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea.



Hmm, I think I do this stuff all the time and that I'm quite good at it. At cognitive functions test Ti is usually my third, or fourth strongest. I don't get why Ti should be an unconscious "shadow" function for me, and also the inferior shadow function. Why must there be shadow functions?
 

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How I can know what is my last function (the 8)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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I'm not sure how people can "know" their 8th. How would you ever really know? Wouldn't you have to basically loose most consciousness to even remotely "experience" it?
 

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How I can know what is my last function (the 8)?
It's best to think of it as your dominant function switched in type. Dominant Ti --> Fi is the 8th function. Dominant Fe --> Te is the 8th function. It's last because your dominant preference causes you to very much reject the opposite process filling the same role.
 

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One doesn't "use" one's eighth function.

This is the absolute, most rejected mode of consciousness. To use it would be ridiculously alien.

My eighth function is Si. I can't even comprehend Si mode of thought. I understand it on a strictly conceptual/experiential level. I know Si types so sometimes I can try to imagine what Si is like, but honestly I have no idea. And further, its an "enemy". As far as I can tell, Si is basically the "truth distortion" function. Which obviously isn't the case, but I have no way of knowing what its actually useful for. I can emulate any needed parts just fine with my top four functions. On any sort of level, when I begin to comprehend Si, its just like "no, no. Why would someone think like that?"

Nothing against Si types. Just, as my eighth function, it just seems stupid. As the most rejected part, there will be many prejudices....
 

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I'm very moralizing and a bigot. Yet I try to have some value over it.
 

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One doesn't "use" one's eighth function.

This is the absolute, most rejected mode of consciousness. To use it would be ridiculously alien.

My eighth function is Si. I can't even comprehend Si mode of thought. I understand it on a strictly conceptual/experiential level. I know Si types so sometimes I can try to imagine what Si is like, but honestly I have no idea. And further, its an "enemy". As far as I can tell, Si is basically the "truth distortion" function. Which obviously isn't the case, but I have no way of knowing what its actually useful for. I can emulate any needed parts just fine with my top four functions. On any sort of level, when I begin to comprehend Si, its just like "no, no. Why would someone think like that?"

Nothing against Si types. Just, as my eighth function, it just seems stupid. As the most rejected part, there will be many prejudices....
According to
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...volving-eight-functions-type-beebe-model.html
We can indeed use our "demon" function, by projecting and in that state become this ourself. We can also use it for good, then it becomes "angelic" or "transformer"
"The anima or "soul" is shadowed by a "demon" which receives its stimulation from the opposite orientation of the inferior. (This is the other one named by Beebe; a "negative anima", and it appears a "double negative" principle leads to it being the same gender as the person). Since that was already the most rejected area, then its shadow manifests in a particularly destructive fashion. It can also become an "angel" or "transformer" in bad situations."

What you can see in my linked post is that everything can be used for good, the trixster can become a comic relief, the old man can become a wise man. The positional personality a function that covers gaps. The demon the revelation of using a completely different perspective and letting go of ones primary function hate for the demon sort of behavior/thinking.

"ENxJ's Might attack people for bombarding them with multiple possibilities."
I, as entj, can easily catch myself becoming Ne when i do this as a critical parent, throwing out possibilities why his suggestion will lead to problem. But logically, if i can utilize Ne for this bad behavior it follows that i should be able to use it for good and let it become a wise man function. I can also become Ti stuck when experiencing amassing problems, but i know that i am in fact being stubborn and one has to let go. But Ti can also help with the detail problems that occur at the leaves in the organization.

I think that prejudices in this case is the same as projecting? If that is so one should try to catch one self and realize that one too does it and try to reach a more complete state.

Disclaimer, yes i know that the term "use" is wrong.
 

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I think the concept of what our shadow functions are, is just ridiculous. As a dominant Ti user you'd think you would be somewhat comfortable (definitely not prefer) with using the extraverted counterpart. I definitely am, although I strongly prefer Ti. Same thing with my Ne, I can use Ni effectively, but I really need to to use Ne because I have worked that muscle so much more.

One of the reasons I'm starting to really like the socionics model.

As for how I feel about my 8th function, I do use it more sometimes to justify my principles, but I'm uncomfortable doing so and I become almost angry at myself because of my Ti's love for logic and reasoning.
 

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I havent much researched the individual house functions or their role in how they affect my psyche specifically, but!.... i am an INTP female, and I have similar thoughts regarding introverted Feeling as RoSoDude above. I am especially shy in new and unfamiliar situations, where perhaps feeling is trumped by an overwhelming toppling of ideas and uncertainty, dealing with how exactly one 'should' act in public.  I found this to hold more of a significance on my personality before I became interested in exploring how other people think, feel and act; but im still suupperr easily disinterested by someone who pools extreme emotion where solutions to conflict could be dealt with intellectually.

I don't express my introverted feelings easily, or care to really, unless provoked by another to do so specifically.  I like to think it's because i'm laid back, but really, my actions seem fueled a lot more smoothly by my reason and thinking than my personal emotions, which fall prey to just so many naive cares and worries of mine.

Ultimately though, it would be impossible to for me to go through life unfeeling in the introverted sense.  My feelings run deep and far below where i can really get a good look at them....but they are always running up and down my spine jerking my thoughts into the place they need to be to become a form of applied reality.


Hiya! btw. first post! Weeeeeeee..!
 

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I think this idea that "the eighth function" is sooooo unconscious that we could never use it is a bit dramatic. I mean, Ti isn't that complicated or "elusive" in Fi-doms. Same with Fe, Ni and Se. I think trying to experience or subtly beginning to notice the other cognitive functions already in use in your thoughts (but still not having much conscious effect on your ego) is mostly a matter of finding a good definition and letting yourself "play" around with what it might be like to be a another type. That's been my experience, at least.

That being said, I'm not even sure if I agree with the idea that Introverted Thinking is part of my unconscious "shadow process" or that it is my "eighth function" ...
 

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My Si acts like an obsessive-compulsive disorder. It brings forth embarrassing past thoughts, and I am forced to dispel them through mumbling nonsense. Then again, this may be actual obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Personally, when it comes to applying all eight functions, I prefer Socionics to MBTI. In Socionics, the extroverted/introverted functions of one's dominant and auxiliary functions are mainly skills which can be used easily, but which are disliked. And the extroverted/introverted functions of one's tertiary and inferior functions are hated, weak, and ignored.
 

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ThatOneWeirdGuy said:
I think the concept of what our shadow functions are, is just ridiculous. As a dominant Ti user you'd think you would be somewhat comfortable (definitely not prefer) with using the extraverted counterpart. I definitely am, although I strongly prefer Ti. Same thing with my Ne, I can use Ni effectively, but I really need to to use Ne because I have worked that muscle so much more.


Yeah.

Here's actually why I think they ended up making it that way. In MBTI, there's a lot of focus on whether you're a P type or a J type, apparently (in fact, what's in common among all P types? They have Ne or Se auxiliary or dominant. Similarly for J types).

I think the socionics model is right in describing an "unconscious but strong" function possibility. The bottom line is the reason Ni would be forced shadow for an INTP is that they're auxiliary Ne, so Se is such a tremendously rejected perspective that there couldn't possibly be confusion enough to say we carry out most of our conscious perceiving through Se-Ni.

That said, it isn't to say that for an introverted T type who has strong N, that a subjective intuition plays little role in the sidelines, in fact, it's said in socionics to be the second easiest to access perspective in a LII {INTj}. Which would make sense. For an intuitive Ti dominant, there's no reason I've heard that is encompassing enough to be total / final as to why the primary mode of intuition preferred should be objective in flavor philosophically.

But all this is kind of useless to MBTI, which I think is a more "practical tool" by intension, which it appears is interested mainly in how we organize our conscious introversion, extroversion patterns. So once you decide you're a Ti-Ne type, that's pretty much it. Of course you've got Si and Fe on the sidelines, but that's just by taking the complement of the introverted T and extroverted N.

Of course, I warn, socionics types = / = MBTI types. They are organized differently.

 
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