[DarwinTotes]

HEY ENFPS!

I posted this to the INTJs, but I thought that I would get your opinion too!

So, there are two of us ENFPS. One of us is 26, female, straight, and divorced. And the other is 20, male, gay, and trying at his first relationship. Yet, we are best friends, and we are coincidentally dating two INTJs. We are both feeling usure about this dating process. We are intrigued but mystified by our INTJ dates, and want to know if any other ENFPs have stories or advice about dating our supposedly ideal intj partners?!?

Thank you guys SOOO much!!!

 

[ApolloNoUta]

Well, here's some advice, at least

INTJs need plenty of alone time (although how much they need is particular to the individual) but just because they need that time doesn't mean that they don't like you. It's just how they recharge. Also, it is a very good idea to discuss personal boundaries with them. I used to have a problem with being physically clingy to my guy (I had some issues from a past relationship and didn't know it was an issue) and as soon as he verbally expressed his disapproval, I switched it and there have been less issues.

That, and with the whole "ideal couple" thing, unless you are extremely balanced out, it takes some work. It takes compromising from both people. My S.O. became a little more sensitive for the sake of my feelings and tries to be a little more affectionate, while I give him his space, but still give him encouragement, support, and affection, and make sure I don't have any uncomfortable outbursts of emotion around him (with exceptions of really serious situations). But with being an ENFP, we help the INTJs to relieve their stress a little and have some fun, while they help us to constantly better ourselves. It is not easy at times, depending how emotional you are (it took a lot of work on my side) but can be an extremely fulfilling relationship!

Wish I could give you more advice, but that's all I can think of at the moment. But congratulations, and best of luck!

 

[MaggieRooWho]

I don't even know how INTJs are considered our ideal partners. I'm willing to bet an INTJ figured that out, because from my experience, our idealness for each other is all logical and mathematical and 0% about feelings and emotions. Anyway.

My ex-SO (as of a couple of days ago) is an INTJ and I don't think it ever worked for us. We were together almost a year, and will probably get back together again like we always do, and when we clicked, it was PERFECT... but we didn't click very often. I constantly felt belittled and picked on and ignored, and he felt smothered and like I was demanding on his time and affections.

TBH, there are days where I just wanna tear my hair out and scream at every single INTJ in the world "if you need so much damn alone time, you have NO right to be in a relationship with anyone! how dare you drag someone else into your miserable little life!"... but I'm trying to be mature about it, and realize that they are not all like that.

Not trying to burst your bubble, though! It, as always, is possible for any personality type to work with any other personality type... just depends how much you're willing to go through to get there, and how much compromise you both are willing to make. It takes work, like all relationships do, it just may take more than you're used to.:dry:

 

[Paradox of Vigor]

"if you need so much damn alone time, you have NO right to be in a relationship with anyone! how dare you drag someone else into your miserable little life!".:dry:

You see it's outbursts like that that piss us off. Haha not so much, but seriously it sounds like he should've been more willing to compromise.

 

[Finaille]

While INTJ's aren't verbally expressive, they do a lot of things to show that they care for you. My father is an INTJ, and he spoils me absolutely rotten. He would take a bullet for me, even though we fight like cats and dogs. It is amazing what they will do to show you how much they care about you. He has been dating his girlfriend for a number of months (I will need to take some time to observe her type, I guess she's ESFJ but I'm not terribly sure) and he always sends her cards, gifts, takes her out to dinner and dates... it's really sweet.

 

[SparkB4theFlame]

We don't always need time alone. I mean, it's nice, but not manditory. If you are so well known to us that we can basically predict most anything you'd say, you are enough apart of us that being around you is like being alone and it's cool hanging out all the time... so long as you shut up now and again.
We like conversation about matters that are eternal. In other words if you want to talk about, say, opra, we'd much rather discuss the philosophies and theoretics of her opinion, what circumstances and factors brought her to fame, and the dedication of her following rahter than talking about the prospect of her adopting a new pet or how she and her husband get along (is she even married?)
conversation has to have direction. We talk for a purpose, not simply to chat. Are we learning something from this conversation? Teaching something? debating something? If not, we'd rather not waste our breath. Small talk is tolerable in small doses, then we'll start nodding our heads in a way that says "not listening, blahblahblahblah..."
If we go quiet, we are no longer interested in the conversation.

 

[wonderfert]

I could be entirely alone in thinking this, but if you want to know if an INTJ likes you just ask. I for one have never been fond of the playing around and trying to gauge my feelings. I'd much rather just be asked, and in turn told when someone is interested in me. Saves time and a lot of confusion.

But hey, it could just be me that feels that way. roud:

 

[viva]

Oh god. My advice: give up on trying to tell, because you will NEVER KNOW!

I speak from experience.

Well, my INTJ best friend from high school who I was completely enamored with (the first of many) finally decided to tell me he had feelings for me approximately three years after the fact, after we had lost touch and both already had other significant others. So... uh. Maybe that counts. But besides that, nope.

 

[Inquiery]

I think INTJs in general love ENFPs, but we aren't really able or particularly willing to analyze the situation as it isn't rational. As a result, we freeze up pretty frequently and are inter-personally helpless at times.

From my experience, if ENFPs are pretty aggressive in trying to connect with me (in a light and positive way') I will like them. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about being liked, you guys are too hard on yourselves. If your getting little or no emotional feedback, I would recommend ratcheting up the attempts at connecting. Assume we like you and being yourselves works (believe it or not). If we don't like you, we are pretty good (or is it bad?) at rejecting people in a callous and very obvious manner. That probably sounds a little harsh, but remember, we already like you generally (always in my experience).

And some last thoughts, privacy is ideal here. Try not to get super emotional when were in public together. We have enough trouble analyzing ourselves and you, so adding others to the situation does not help at all. So in summary, assume they like you, act accordingly, and try to keep interactions relatively private. I don't think you'll have trouble getting them to like you if you keep those tips in mind. Don't get too conscious about our feelings, even we don't understand them. Analysis won't work (at the beginning of a relationship).

 

[Apollo Celestio]

It's all preference and past experience here.

You think they might be different enough that something draws them together.

 

[zerogravity]

I'm an INTJ and one of my best friend is an ENFP
We get along quite well, she also knows when I need to be alone and leave me for a while. She talked about love problems to me when we're still new friends, seeing no emotional feedback from me, she didn't talked about it often lately. I do feel guilty since I'm not always there for her when she's being really nice and trying so hard to understand me

 

[Inquiery]

Oh god. My advice: give up on trying to tell, because you will NEVER KNOW!

I speak from experience.

Well, my INTJ best friend from high school who I was completely enamored with (the first of many) finally decided to tell me he had feelings for me approximately three years after the fact, after we had lost touch and both already had other significant others. So... uh. Maybe that counts. But besides that, nope.

Yep, I've done something similar. We really do have that much trouble with our emotions. When young either we have to have YEARS to think about things, or need a little (read lots of) encouragement. Emotions are scary, we run away from them a lot like a scared squirrel if were unsure. Offer us some acorns and talk in a soothing, quiet tone, and don't make any sudden movements. Once you "get" us though, you got us. Lots of opening up.

 

[SteffSweetlySour]

I Think Basically If you haven’t been told "You annoy me, go away." you’re on the right track. The old saying "Not one to suffer fuels." applies well to INTJ's. I remember even when I was a little girl I know very quickly whether or not I liked someone, and if I did I would do my best to figure them out. Staying mostly quiet and just paying attention to every detail of the person, but if I decided I didn’t like them I would either say something like "Your voice is really annoying." or if I was in a giving mood, "That's nice... I have to go." This hasn’t changed much. (Much to mothers chagrin.) So I think if they haven’t told you they don’t like you then you’re in the green my friend. :crazy:

On another note I know that what I like about ENFP's is their optimism. I’m a realist with pessimistic tendencies who always wanted to be an optimist, but it seems about as logical as walking into traffic blindfolded. But to see someone throw caution to the wind and just decided that life is a beautiful, happy place all the time, is so enticing to me. My sister is an ENFP and I find her crazy rambling about what makes "kung fu panda" so great, just adorable and soothing to listen to. Having someone there who doesn’t see the same dark ominous world I do, makes me happy, and hopeful. When I think ENFP I think sweetness, innocents, and sunshine, and those are things I’m lacking, but do actually value greatly.

 

[MaggieRooWho]

Simply put: they don't like you. And most of them will tell you so. Have you seen the way we're ridiculed and roasted on the INTJ forum? I'm pretty sure I cried for a half hour the first time I ventured over there, and I haven't gone back.

 

[Lullaby]

Simply put: they don't like you. And most of them will tell you so. Have you seen the way we're ridiculed and roasted on the INTJ forum? I'm pretty sure I cried for a half hour the first time I ventured over there, and I haven't gone back.

*hugs*

I know what you mean... I don't like that place. :sad: It kills all my hopes of having something to do with their type. Ever.

But then I come back here, where people are emphatic and they try to understand and help you, instead of making you feel like an idiot for even approaching them. I feel that our efforts go very much unappreciated with them. ENFPs accept people as they are. We try to understand those we can, and just love everyone else and their differences. We don't exactly expect the same in return, but at least a tiny bit of respect...

INTJs I feel are very.. difficult. As a woman, that attracts me no end, but then they just go and kill all hope of even being friends. They act like they don't want to be helped, like your attempt at doing something nice for them is an insult. As if we're trying to help, because we think they can't do it alone. It's not true. I want to help because I just want to. Reading into it is a mistake; I just like helping people. That's that.

I still like them, though. They're a bit like a classmate of mine - you start with good intentions, they do a ton of hurtful things, and then - when you're just about to give up, they go out on a limb and do something nice. Rinse, repeat.

Yeah, no wonder I had the biggest crush on said classmate. It's like we want to believe in people despite them.

 

[Lyssa]

I agree with whoever said just ask, in my experience INTJs will tell you directly if they don't like you, and they won't bother to sugarcoat it. Alternatively, observe their behavior. INTJs generally distrust people's words and instead focus on their actions, if you want to know how much they care, you should do the same. They can be quite generous (for them) of their time and energy to assist those they're fond of.

 

[geGamedev]

Well, my INTJ best friend from high school who I was completely enamored with (the first of many) finally decided to tell me he had feelings for me approximately three years after the fact, after we had lost touch and both already had other significant others. So... uh. Maybe that counts. But besides that, nope.

I'm guilty of doing that. I completely ignore any emotional and physical attraction unless I'm already attracted to her mind and personality. So far, there's only been one person I even considered dating and that wasn't until about a year or more after we met. Granted, there were other complicated in my case, which only increased when infatuation started short-circuiting my brain. lol

 

[Yeomen94]

Gosh MaggieRoowho, i'm sorry you feel that way. I always thought the INTJ forums were rather civil...but i can see how you'd think that. We're blunt...
You all are so sweet on this forum, and it may not be obvious but we do appreciate you and your crazy NFness. Personally, there isn't anything that makes me feel better than reading what ENFPs post about their INTJs on forums.
OH NO- I FEEL!

 

[Bahama Mama]

INTJs I feel are very.. difficult. As a woman, that attracts me no end, but then they just go and kill all hope of even being friends. They act like they don't want to be helped, like your attempt at doing something nice for them is an insult. As if we're trying to help, because we think they can't do it alone. It's not true. I want to help because I just want to. Reading into it is a mistake; I just like helping people. That's that.

Yeah, no wonder I had the biggest crush on said classmate. It's like we want to believe in people despite them.

I agree with the attraction part, but the dangerous part is (1) ENFPs love a challenge especially when the the guy is playing "hard to get" and (2) ENFPs will linger in a relationship that isnt good for them in hopes that the good feelings they once felt would come back. It's dangerous because when INTJs are "playing hard to get" they're not playing--they WOULD rather spend time with their computer/PS3/Guitar than to spend time with you.

The most attractive features of an INTJ to an ENFP in my opinion is that they are incredibly smart in a silent way, have many talents, and seem rather kind. What you can't see until you live with them is that they can be really critical and anal about everything and...BOY THEY ARE ADDICTED to alone time. They can deny it because to them it's normal and doesn't seem like that much--but to an ENFP who could go weeks without alone time, its excessive.

I don't even know how INTJs are considered our ideal partners. I'm willing to bet an INTJ figured that out, because from my experience, our idealness for each other is all logical and mathematical and 0% about feelings and emotions. Anyway.

My ex-SO (as of a couple of days ago) is an INTJ and I don't think it ever worked for us. We were together almost a year, and will probably get back together again like we always do, and when we clicked, it was PERFECT... but we didn't click very often. I constantly felt belittled and picked on and ignored, and he felt smothered and like I was demanding on his time and affections.

TBH, there are days where I just wanna tear my hair out and scream at every single INTJ in the world "if you need so much damn alone time, you have NO right to be in a relationship with anyone! how dare you drag someone else into your miserable little life!"... but I'm trying to be mature about it, and realize that they are not all like that.

Not trying to burst your bubble, though! It, as always, is possible for any personality type to work with any other personality type... just depends how much you're willing to go through to get there, and how much compromise you both are willing to make. It takes work, like all relationships do, it just may take more than you're used to.:dry:

poor baby. I know this evil spiral that is affecting you...Been there. I saw this one MTV show about an ENFP and an INTJ couple. She would beg him to leave the apartment and take her out and when he finally would he would take her out to only one place. He just couldnt understand her "nagging" and refused to change because he didn't understand the concept of a romantic outing--wining and dining...So sad. In the end she couldnt take it anymore and knew that she would always stay with him--so she had to MOVE OUT of NYC!! Crazy. I know I wouldn't have given up on my INTJ if he was my one and only. Luckily I had met my ISTP and been friends with him years before--so if I could have such an amazing FRIENDSHIP with an ISTP that never compared to anything me and my INTJ had, i must have been missing something.

It took me a while to get over him after he lusted after another girl right before my eyes. (I was even thinking of taking him back after that)...but it was too late. I didn't wanna suffer anymore. He tried after that to hook up with me--but they can just be so...mathematical all the time. SUcks.

My advice to you. Enjoy the beginning part but make sure u and ur friend will be there for each other when ur INTJ's start to hurt ur feelings without knowing it. The mystery of the INTJ is hard to figure out--but when you do--it really is as simple as 1+2=3

 

[perennialurker]

Simply put: they don't like you. And most of them will tell you so. Have you seen the way we're ridiculed and roasted on the INTJ forum? I'm pretty sure I cried for a half hour the first time I ventured over there, and I haven't gone back.

Yes, but you also need to notice all of those same INTJs lurking and posting nice things about ENFPs in this forum.