[Enneagram Type 2] When someone triggers your need for validation?

When someone triggers your need for validation?

Hello Guest! Sign up to join the discussion below...
Results 1 to 8 of 8
Thank Tree7Thanks
  • 1 Post By Enneagirl2019
  • 1 Post By artastrophe
  • 2 Post By Faery
  • 1 Post By Enneagirl2019
  • 2 Post By Enneagirl2019

This is a discussion on When someone triggers your need for validation? within the Type 2 Forum - The Helper forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; ...

  1. #1

    When someone triggers your need for validation?

    I’m a very independent 2w3, but when I am around someone that is head-centered or just not very emotional and I really like them, I find myself constantly obsessing about my faults and I have realized that I analyze my every interaction with them for pros and cons - ways I came off as “good” and ways that I sounded stupid and possibly made them like me less. I am embarrassed to admit this frankly because I am a professional. Responsible. I think I do life really well, and yet, I have this quite annoying pattern. I would love to know how other 2’s handle this if this is also an issue for you. This could also go beyond the Enneagram but I do find that I care way more about what the “hard” people think that the easy folks. If 10 people are standing in a line, telling me how wonderful I am, and there is one person in that line that I really like but is very withholding and surrounded by emotional walls, I appreciate all of my other open-hearted friends, but I will make a beeline for that one person and obsess about why they don’t like me and if they are important to me, I will analyze my every interaction with them. It’s exhausting and not how I want to be. Any thoughts?
    artastrophe thanked this post.



  2. #2
    Type 2w1

    My instinctive impression is that there was an important figure in your early life/childhood who was emotionally distant/withholding (most typically a caregiver), and attempts to 'win' over similarly difficult people is subconsciously going to make you feel like you are worth the love that they withheld from you: if this new person likes you, then you are more deserving of that love, because you earned it and proved it.

    It doesn't necessarily have to point to a figure from your childhood, though, as it could just be that proving to 'difficult' people that you are worth love helps you accept that you're worth that much more love; you earned it and proved it, because as a Two, the only way you are worth loving (or liking) is if someone else believes you are (and of course they have to continue to demonstrate it.) :)

    So it's like, how much more impressive and awesome are you if you earn the gold medal for the 800-meter dash vs the 100-meter dash?? (Okay, those are probably equally hard for different reasons, just I'm really struggling to come up with sports metaphors lol.)

    The other possibility would have to do more with an MBTI type-kinda thing, as I've found that "F" types often tend to have a sort of... jealousy? of "T" types (often overlapping with the 'head' types and emotional distance), and can often mistype themselves out of that sort of idealization/interpretation. The problems there are really how the various types are described, and how MBTI is usually reduced to that sort of N vs S, F vs T binary (instead of looking into the cognitive functions, sigh), so everyone ends up with distorted views and stereotypes. I'm not sure if 'jealousy' is quite the right word, either, as it might just be an internalization that "T's" are somehow 'better', perhaps as 'smarter' or more 'competent'? (Which is ridiculous, as the smartest people I know are actually F types anyway. :P)

    BUT!! If you happen to have some sensitivities/insecurities along those lines, then people who appear to be "T" types/head types/emotionally distant may be raised up on a pedestal in your estimation, especially in regards to your 3-wing, as that may correspond with more professional success? (Not sure what field you are in, though, as that would be a factor in the representative demographics of enneagram/MBTI there I'm sure!)

    And in that case, I'd say it could tie back to a figure or overall archetype that you admired/looked up to/compared yourself to that you feel has qualities you lack but wish you had?

    Also, another angle with the MBTI -- and my apologies if you aren't familiar with it at all so this isn't helpful, ack; in that case, just skip over it -- but that is the cognitive functions of Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs Extraverted Feeling (Fe). Fe overlaps a lot with enneagram Two and Nine, so it's about connecting to others and harmonizing, whereas Fi is more about one's integrity, and internal set of values and ideals (very type Four!). Fi-users may view Fe-users as flaky, shallow, and insincere, since Fe-users project what can almost be seen as a 'false' sort of warmth in an attempt to set others at ease or get them to like them (which sounds a bit like Twos, eh? But not all Twos have to be Fe-users; it's just a common correlation). So Fi is more selective about who they open up to and who deserves to see their feelings, and they are driven to be honest and true to themselves, so can see strong Fe as false flattery and insincerity. So they would instinctively be a bit put-off by any sort of effusiveness, and might even be suspicious of people who are expressive and overly friendly or emotive -- like the people who are 'open-hearted' you mentioned.

    In less MBTI-terms, though, it's kinda like: if this person is that nice to everyone, how do I know if they truly value me as an individual*? How do I stand out from any other person; did I really earn that attention or deserve it, if I didn't have to work for it? Is sincere love really there at all??

    *Which I think is tied into Two's 'integration point' to Four, as I've personally found that I feel so much more validated or invalidated when it is in regards to my personal creative pursuits and how I express myself (mostly through writing or personality theory haha) -- if someone values that part of me, then they really value me and not just what I can do for them. And correspondingly, it's a million times worse when that side of me is rejected/ignored/dismissed.

    Twos believe we have to be useful and helpful and nice in order to be loved and to have value; unless we do a lot of work on ourselves, we need external affirmation to believe that we are worth anything on our own. So anyone who is standoffish and expressing that they don't like us or don't feel that we are contributing (even unintentionally), makes us want to bend over backwards trying to show them that they're wrong. But it's really about showing ourselves; we just have to hear it from the outside.

    As far as whether I personally have a problem with this... I honestly am not entirely sure, as I am not around enough people to have noticed that pattern? But I did find myself writing characters (and being drawn to characters) who were either assholes or emotionally cold and then having a love interest who was... basically a 2sp (this was before I realized that was my enneagram) that helped them out of their shell and change their outlook. *rolls eyes*

    2191ac01c708348e94dc42612ec192fa.jpg

    Aaaand then I eventually realized I probably have father issues given that he is an emotionally-distant workaholic Enneagram Nine ISTP. >_> So the theme I'm drawn towards is a female 'earning' a difficult male character's love, which is some problematic toxic heteronormative bullshit but it's an attempt to heal myself (from one of the childhood wounds that made me a Two) so I'm kind of torn about it... So, yeah, I'm guessing I do have similar issues there. ^^;

  3. #3
    Unknown

    But I did find myself writing characters (and being drawn to characters) who were either assholes or emotionally cold and then having a love interest who was... basically a 2sp (this was before I realized that was my enneagram) that helped them out of their shell and change their outlook. *rolls eyes*
    I love stories with those archetypes, too. Although we both know he's not really cold in there, he's classically misunderstood and withdrawn. It's a defense mechanism. He's putting his spines out in self-preservation, like a porcupine does. In general, he's the Byronic Hero: "Cooked up by the "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" Lord Byron. A Byronic hero is an antihero of the highest order. He (or she) is typically rebellious, arrogant, anti-social or in exile, and darkly, enticingly romantic." Examples:


    Hades and Persephone
    Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennett
    Beauty and the Beast
    The Phantom and Christine Daaé (The Phantom of the Opera)
    Damon and Elena (The Vampire Diaries)
    Lestat/Louis (Interview with a Vampire)
    Count Dracula
    Eric Draven
    Roy Batty
    Severus Snape
    Hannibal Lecter
    Batman
    (there's a lot more)


    The common theme is that most of the time, he wasn't born that way, in truth he's deeply sensitive and caring, but something happened, so he became that way. But the Type 2 archetype sees into his soul and his heart as they really are in their unfettered state, before all of the pain. It's not dark inside, it's deep sensitivity.


    It's not so much about the individual or their personality traits, although that's part of it, it's the deeper concepts driving their tug-of-war between being withdrawn and being vulnerable. I always want love to win. It's watching an internal battle between love and hate, joy and sorrow, light and dark. My idealism, love, and hope cannot die, even if I am dying.


    It's about how many arrows it will take to get through all of their armor and reach their heart. The irony is that the most gentle touch or act of kindness is all it takes. It's a war that happens inside all of us. The truth is nobody can protect themselves from pain without closing themselves off from love, too. They know that opening up to love means the possibility of experiencing unendurable pain exactly because of that love, so they resign themselves from both. The Type 2 wants to convince them that true love is more powerful than anything else. They themselves can't stop feeling or believing in it, even when their heart is broken.


    Who needs to believe in love? The most hardened and broken of hearts.
    Last edited by Faery; 08-25-2019 at 07:27 AM. Reason: formatting
    Sri and artastrophe thanked this post.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    PersonalityCafe.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4

    Quote Originally Posted by artastrophe View Post
    My instinctive impression is that there was an important figure in your early life/childhood who was emotionally distant/withholding (most typically a caregiver), and attempts to 'win' over similarly difficult people is subconsciously going to make you feel like you are worth the love that they withheld from you: if this new person likes you, then you are more deserving of that love, because you earned it and proved it.

    It doesn't necessarily have to point to a figure from your childhood, though, as it could just be that proving to 'difficult' people that you are worth love helps you accept that you're worth that much more love; you earned it and proved it, because as a Two, the only way you are worth loving (or liking) is if someone else believes you are (and of course they have to continue to demonstrate it.) :)

    So it's like, how much more impressive and awesome are you if you earn the gold medal for the 800-meter dash vs the 100-meter dash?? (Okay, those are probably equally hard for different reasons, just I'm really struggling to come up with sports metaphors lol.)

    The other possibility would have to do more with an MBTI type-kinda thing, as I've found that "F" types often tend to have a sort of... jealousy? of "T" types (often overlapping with the 'head' types and emotional distance), and can often mistype themselves out of that sort of idealization/interpretation. The problems there are really how the various types are described, and how MBTI is usually reduced to that sort of N vs S, F vs T binary (instead of looking into the cognitive functions, sigh), so everyone ends up with distorted views and stereotypes. I'm not sure if 'jealousy' is quite the right word, either, as it might just be an internalization that "T's" are somehow 'better', perhaps as 'smarter' or more 'competent'? (Which is ridiculous, as the smartest people I know are actually F types anyway. :P)

    BUT!! If you happen to have some sensitivities/insecurities along those lines, then people who appear to be "T" types/head types/emotionally distant may be raised up on a pedestal in your estimation, especially in regards to your 3-wing, as that may correspond with more professional success? (Not sure what field you are in, though, as that would be a factor in the representative demographics of enneagram/MBTI there I'm sure!)

    And in that case, I'd say it could tie back to a figure or overall archetype that you admired/looked up to/compared yourself to that you feel has qualities you lack but wish you had?

    Also, another angle with the MBTI -- and my apologies if you aren't familiar with it at all so this isn't helpful, ack; in that case, just skip over it -- but that is the cognitive functions of Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs Extraverted Feeling (Fe). Fe overlaps a lot with enneagram Two and Nine, so it's about connecting to others and harmonizing, whereas Fi is more about one's integrity, and internal set of values and ideals (very type Four!). Fi-users may view Fe-users as flaky, shallow, and insincere, since Fe-users project what can almost be seen as a 'false' sort of warmth in an attempt to set others at ease or get them to like them (which sounds a bit like Twos, eh? But not all Twos have to be Fe-users; it's just a common correlation). So Fi is more selective about who they open up to and who deserves to see their feelings, and they are driven to be honest and true to themselves, so can see strong Fe as false flattery and insincerity. So they would instinctively be a bit put-off by any sort of effusiveness, and might even be suspicious of people who are expressive and overly friendly or emotive -- like the people who are 'open-hearted' you mentioned.

    In less MBTI-terms, though, it's kinda like: if this person is that nice to everyone, how do I know if they truly value me as an individual*? How do I stand out from any other person; did I really earn that attention or deserve it, if I didn't have to work for it? Is sincere love really there at all??

    *Which I think is tied into Two's 'integration point' to Four, as I've personally found that I feel so much more validated or invalidated when it is in regards to my personal creative pursuits and how I express myself (mostly through writing or personality theory haha) -- if someone values that part of me, then they really value me and not just what I can do for them. And correspondingly, it's a million times worse when that side of me is rejected/ignored/dismissed.

    Twos believe we have to be useful and helpful and nice in order to be loved and to have value; unless we do a lot of work on ourselves, we need external affirmation to believe that we are worth anything on our own. So anyone who is standoffish and expressing that they don't like us or don't feel that we are contributing (even unintentionally), makes us want to bend over backwards trying to show them that they're wrong. But it's really about showing ourselves; we just have to hear it from the outside.

    As far as whether I personally have a problem with this... I honestly am not entirely sure, as I am not around enough people to have noticed that pattern? But I did find myself writing characters (and being drawn to characters) who were either assholes or emotionally cold and then having a love interest who was... basically a 2sp (this was before I realized that was my enneagram) that helped them out of their shell and change their outlook. *rolls eyes*

    2191ac01c708348e94dc42612ec192fa.jpg

    Aaaand then I eventually realized I probably have father issues given that he is an emotionally-distant workaholic Enneagram Nine ISTP. >_> So the theme I'm drawn towards is a female 'earning' a difficult male character's love, which is some problematic toxic heteronormative bullshit but it's an attempt to heal myself (from one of the childhood wounds that made me a Two) so I'm kind of torn about it... So, yeah, I'm guessing I do have similar issues there. ^^;
    Thank you so much for this. You are SPOT ON!! My mother was withholding emotionally. Actually my entire family. And my dad was absent. So this makes total sense!! This is fantastic insight!! Thank you so much!
    artastrophe thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Faery View Post
    I love stories with those archetypes, too. Although we both know he's not really cold in there, he's classically misunderstood and withdrawn. It's a defense mechanism. He's putting his spines out in self-preservation, like a porcupine does. In general, he's the Byronic Hero: "Cooked up by the "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" Lord Byron. A Byronic hero is an antihero of the highest order. He (or she) is typically rebellious, arrogant, anti-social or in exile, and darkly, enticingly romantic." Examples:


    Hades and Persephone
    Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennett
    Beauty and the Beast
    The Phantom and Christine Daaé (The Phantom of the Opera)
    Damon and Elena (The Vampire Diaries)
    Lestat/Louis (Interview with a Vampire)
    Count Dracula
    Eric Draven
    Roy Batty
    Severus Snape
    Hannibal Lecter
    Batman
    (there's a lot more)


    The common theme is that most of the time, he wasn't born that way, in truth he's deeply sensitive and caring, but something happened, so he became that way. But the Type 2 archetype sees into his soul and his heart as they really are in their unfettered state, before all of the pain. It's not dark inside, it's deep sensitivity.


    It's not so much about the individual or their personality traits, although that's part of it, it's the deeper concepts driving their tug-of-war between being withdrawn and being vulnerable. I always want love to win. It's watching an internal battle between love and hate, joy and sorrow, light and dark. My idealism, love, and hope cannot die, even if I am dying.


    It's about how many arrows it will take to get through all of their armor and reach their heart. The irony is that the most gentle touch or act of kindness is all it takes. It's a war that happens inside all of us. The truth is nobody can protect themselves from pain without closing themselves off from love, too. They know that opening up to love means the possibility of experiencing unendurable pain exactly because of that love, so they resign themselves from both. The Type 2 wants to convince them that true love is more powerful than anything else. They themselves can't stop feeling or believing in it, even when their heart is broken.


    Who needs to believe in love? The most hardened and broken of hearts.
    Faery, this is amazing insight as well, thank you!! You are so right in how you described both types. I have to re-read both of these replies a few times as they are super, super insightful!!
    Faery and artastrophe thanked this post.

  7. #6

    wow very interesting write up. Inspired me a lot.

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Enneagirl2019 View Post
    I’m a very independent 2w3, but when I am around someone that is head-centered or just not very emotional and I really like them, I find myself constantly obsessing about my faults and I have realized that I analyze my every interaction with them for pros and cons - ways I came off as “good” and ways that I sounded stupid and possibly made them like me less. I am embarrassed to admit this frankly because I am a professional. Responsible. I think I do life really well, and yet, I have this quite annoying pattern. I would love to know how other 2’s handle this if this is also an issue for you. This could also go beyond the Enneagram but I do find that I care way more about what the “hard” people think that the easy folks. If 10 people are standing in a line, telling me how wonderful I am, and there is one person in that line that I really like but is very withholding and surrounded by emotional walls, I appreciate all of my other open-hearted friends, but I will make a beeline for that one person and obsess about why they don’t like me and if they are important to me, I will analyze my every interaction with them. It’s exhausting and not how I want to be. Any thoughts?


    I can totally relate to this. I feel the same way. I walk in somewhere with 100 people appreciating me and that one person who doesn't show interest becomes my interest. I am a type 2 ENFP and I really need to accept even the fact that it bothers me and move on without obsessing about why am I like this.

    I think in the foundation it is the type 2 weakness. I also find the Human Design very relevant. When you don't have your heart centre/will centre defined this happens. You can check that out.

  9. #8
    Type 8w9

    Quote Originally Posted by Enneagirl2019 View Post
    I’m a very independent 2w3, but when I am around someone that is head-centered or just not very emotional and I really like them, I find myself constantly obsessing about my faults and I have realized that I analyze my every interaction with them for pros and cons - ways I came off as “good” and ways that I sounded stupid and possibly made them like me less. I am embarrassed to admit this frankly because I am a professional. Responsible. I think I do life really well, and yet, I have this quite annoying pattern. I would love to know how other 2’s handle this if this is also an issue for you. This could also go beyond the Enneagram but I do find that I care way more about what the “hard” people think that the easy folks. If 10 people are standing in a line, telling me how wonderful I am, and there is one person in that line that I really like but is very withholding and surrounded by emotional walls, I appreciate all of my other open-hearted friends, but I will make a beeline for that one person and obsess about why they don’t like me and if they are important to me, I will analyze my every interaction with them. It’s exhausting and not how I want to be. Any thoughts?
    youre a 2 it seems - when you stress, your pride is trying to defend your ego. (pride is the sin of 2's) the real you knows how you REALLY are, while your ego puts on an image of 'professional' , 'responsible' , 'doing life really well'.

    2's are very heart centered, with 2 points in the heart and 1 in the body - they can be aloof or absent minded. you sense their mental fortitude and it puts your ego on guard mode, so you begin looking for justification.

    the path to integration for pride/2 - is humility.


     

Similar Threads

  1. [Enneagram Type 4] What happens when you get what you long for? Or do you ever get what you long for?
    By L P in forum Type 4 Forum - The Individualist
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 10-01-2019, 12:34 PM
  2. [ENFP] Having someone's back--- when do ENFPs stand up for others and when not.
    By Llyralen in forum ENFP Forum - The Inspirers
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 09-08-2019, 02:58 AM
  3. [INFJ] why do i act differently when accompanied by people and when alone?
    By johnfreakinfj in forum INFJ Forum - The Protectors
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 08-08-2018, 08:43 PM
  4. [INFP] External Validation vs Internal/Self Validation
    By sensei.of.slow in forum INFP Forum - The Idealists
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-18-2014, 03:30 PM
  5. [ESTP] What Are Your Enneagrams, ESTPs? Need Some Validation
    By Le9acyMuse in forum ESTP Forum - The Doers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-06-2010, 04:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28 AM.
Information provided on the site is meant to complement and not replace any advice or information from a health professional.
© 2014 PersonalityCafe
 

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0