[Enneagram Type 4] i don't deserve to be...

i don't deserve to be...

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This is a discussion on i don't deserve to be... within the Type 4 Forum - The Individualist forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; "I don't deserve to be happy" Is this attitude so normal for #4 ? If YES ,why ? and how ...

  1. #1

    i don't deserve to be...

    "I don't deserve to be happy"

    Is this attitude so normal for #4 ?

    If YES ,why ?

    and how to deal with it ?
    Sengai and Sei35 thanked this post.



  2. #2

    No it is not healthy but wouldn't be surprised if it is a common issue having to deal with it myself, for me it is more like having to do without and struggling through life while watching others almost ease through it without much if any real struggles in life. It is very easy to be positive when life is on easy but when it hits the fan it is much harder especially when it is personal or someone close suffers.

    Everyone deserves to be happy and to enjoy life just not at the expense of others.

  3. #3
    Type 4w5

    This is my take on things from looking at my own experience so it may or may not be applicable to all 4's. I'm also a social 4 so that's the perspective I'll be speaking from.

    I think having thoughts of not deserving good things (happy) is pretty common amongst 4's. Growing up they believed their needs and wants were not allowed. Personally, whenever I got something I wanted as a child I remember my older brother, who was my strongest attachment, got angry at me since he didn't get his wants. So I did things that favored what he liked to keep the relationship in tact but giving up my wants at the same time and that stuck with me. In other 4's cases maybe they weren't payed attention to and believed they were unimportant. They may have been rejected in overt or even subtle ways and they took it to mean they are unimportant. That can give rise to feelings of worthlessness that is common among 4's. Feeling worthless means you don't think you deserve good things.

    How to deal with it? If I had to put it simply it would be to forgive yourself and accept who you really are. One of the lost childhood messages for the 4 is, "You are seen for who you are". 4's just want to be seen, heard, and want express themselves and getting to really know who they are is the right path towards that. You don't have to hide who you are anymore.

    Hope this helps. Please share any feedback or if there was anything you related to. I'd love to hear it.
    L P, Sei35, Shrodingers drink and 2 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4
    Type 4w5

    I'd say it is, worthlessness, undeserving of good things, defective, all normal for a 4. Why? Because you have an ideal of who you should be in your mind, and once that ideal is "reached" (it can never be reached) then you will deserve all those things. How to deal with it? Accept your self, the way you are now, get out of the gap between who you are and are not, rest easy in yourself, in your ugly, despite what you think the world thinks, lay down the burden of trying and just be, then you'll be happy even if you don't "deserve" it.

    Also it's funny how I didn't read the above post but said the same thing, must be a 4 thing.

  6. #5

    The thought comes to mind that many of us grow up with our needs, wants, desires, interests, and personalities being invalidated by the world around us making do and going without including the things that are often taken for granted. Many 4s are flowers growing in the dark.
    L P thanked this post.

  7. #6
    Type 4w5

    Quote Originally Posted by The Edwardian Spirit View Post
    The thought comes to mind that many of us grow up with our needs, wants, desires, interests, and personalities being invalidated by the world around us making do and going without including the things that are often taken for granted. Many 4s are flowers growing in the dark.
    Sure I grew up like that as well but what about people who grow up like this and are not 4s. Like is this a nuture thing?
    Sei35 thanked this post.

  8. #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Sure I grew up like that as well but what about people who grow up like this and are not 4s. Like is this a nuture thing?
    I know that other types struggle differently under the same conditions so I am never surprised that so many people end up having issues or worse end up on drugs or having some other major problem. This world sucks to be honest.
    ImminentThunder thanked this post.

  9. #8
    Type 5w4

    I hope I may join as a five with a four wing. The discussion topic took my attention because the happy thing was really the theme of my week.

    I started a course on loving yourself and loving others from a buddhist perspective on Monday and in the first unit we were made to reflect on the question of what makes us happy.

    When I couldn't sleep the first night of the course I had this question popping up again in my thoughts and I began to cry and I got into very deep emotional pain and at some point I felt like four years old or somehow much younger like a child, and I felt not just unhappy as that child, I felt miserable.

    The beliefs that came with that grief or were the door to the grief was a bit different though to what you are talking about here. This might be the five core. For me it rather feels that there is nothing that could ever make me happy. That it just is not possible for me to be happy. To have a happy life. That I am not able to be happy.

    Because it evolves around capabaility/ability my guess is that this is the five.

    What I can see so far is that whether I deserve it or not is not a question that plays an important role here. Consciously it is for me rather the opposite and I remember myself telling myself many times that when I look around I would deserve it more than others. So I would be interested when you fours could describe more detailed why you think you are not worth it. If this is true about what you believe about yourself what's the stories that prove this?

    I'd love to hear those!

    I'd love to continue to describe mine and how I remember my childhood but first I need to do something else. I hope I can be back later.
    KidPeculiar, PlasticRenaissance and Sei35 thanked this post.

  10. #9

    I have a really bad habit of punishing myself and withdrawing from the world when I feel like I am not who I want to be... or as my brain tells me, who I should be.

    I've seen therapists for my mental health issues back when I was really struggling and one of them pointed out how I tend to speak with a self critiquing tone. A lot of "should"s and "shouldn't"s. We worked on this issue by changing the language and the tone of how I speak to myself and by inspecting where these thoughts come from.

    I deal with it by practicing self love. It's a life long habit of critiquing myself so I know it isn't going to be easy; I mean, I'm still working on it. I started by replacing a lot of the "should"s with "want" and "wish". This way, it doesn't have a self punishing tone but instead, a self motivating tone. But, the issue doesn't stop here because these thoughts still stem from a place of deep hatred. So once I catch myself trying to punish myself for who I am, I engage in grounding and loving activities. Meditation, giving myself a spa treatment at home, listening to music, treating myself to a bougie drink from some expensive cafe...etc. This way, I feel like I am sending myself the message that I am okay. I'm good. There's nothing wrong with who I am. Instead, I want to celebrate all of my emotional victories in life. Making myself feel loved by me really helps.

    Also, I just want to say that all the replies in this thread are so beautiful. :)

  11. #10
    Type 4w5

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengai View Post

    So I would be interested when you fours could describe more detailed why you think you are not worth it. If this is true about what you believe about yourself what's the stories that prove this?

    I'd love to hear those!

    I'd love to continue to describe mine and how I remember my childhood but first I need to do something else. I hope I can be back later.

    Why you think you are not worth it?

    For me I can pinpoint a few reasons.

    I grew up with a cousin the same age as me until I was 13, he over shadowed me because he was everything a boy was supposed to be and I was not, so people treated him like he was older than me. And the only way I knew that was because he gained respect from people for being strong, charismatic, and brave. For me that begged the question "Why do people treat him like that and not me, what is wrong with me?" So I began to think you have to be like that in order to "deserve" respect, love and admiration. And I was not like that. He was ESTP 8w7, my polar opposite fwiw.

    Then Highschool reinforced this idea of who I was not and who people accept. Many kids in highschool got socially rewarded for being tough, winning a fight, coming from a "cool"(rough) neighborhood, being in juvi, being in a gang, some kids even were in jail, and everybody thought they were cool, guys respected them, high fived them, named dropped them, and girls talked about them and wanted to be around them and date them. I felt like, I'm not like these people, and because I'm not like these people the world ( my surroundings) does not respect me, admire me, love me, care about me. So the idea that I had to be like that to deserve respect, love and admiration was reinforced. After 3 years of me attending the school my cousin (who lived out of state and attended another school) moved in with my family, attends the school for a year and becomes popular to the point that people referred to me as his cousin instead of my name, and I had been there for 3 years prior, so life reinforced that idea in my head again just in case I didn't get the point, guys like him are more valuable and deserving of love than me.

    And if I think back even before highschool, there was a moment where me and my cousin got into a fist fight. After the fight was over both our out little brothers told our grandma about it, me thinking my grandma is supposed to be impartial to her grandkids, never expected her to ask our brothers "Who won?" and of course both our brothers sided with ESTP because he's big and strong and can beat you up(even though it was a sloppy fight and there was no clear winner). After they told my grandma my cousin won, I won't forget the look of respect in her eyes she had when she looked at my cousin, it was like a reflex, she almost nodded at him like good job. That was the first moment I remember thinking to get respect in this world you have to be like that.

    Fast forward to college, I hung around the wrong crowd, bunch of knuckle head players. One guy I was friends with had 2 girlfriends at once, I was so impressed at the time. All our main concerns revolved around girls. But silly me I was a hopeless romantic and wanted to "fall in love" and find "the one" and these guys wanted to sleep with everything in sight. At first they poked some small fun at my real desires to find a girl friend, and that was enough for me to realize the "culture" of this group", if you're not trying to be a player and you're trying to keep one girl, you're lame. I didn't have the sense to know otherwise at the time. Of course I thought there was something wrong with me, why did I feel weird about trying to bed every girl in sight, why wasn't I like these guys, also why am I not aggressive in pursing women, I remember even thinking that maybe it's because I'm gay, just to try and find an explanation. And then the reinforcement of these insecurities begun, I watched on the sidelines like a bench player as these guys treated girls like shit and got laid. It made no sense to me, why does being an asshole work, at the time I did not know all about girls liking bad boys and such. It made me feel like I had to be an asshole to get what I want, which is a relationship. And I asked myself again "What is wrong with me, why does it not feel good for me to be an asshole but it's so easy for them to be an asshole." I asked this because I watched it work, I watched them play the game and I felt like because I am who I am I don't get to play. Once again I don't deserve respect, love or admiration, because I'm not like that.

    I did good by ridding myself of those friends. I made friends with an ENFJ who helped me realize those guys were bad for me and that what I wanted ( relationship, one person, love) was normal and I shouldn't feel weird or "lame" for wanting the things I want. We are still friends to this day and he is like a brother to me. And shortly I made friends with a new pack of guys who were more like me and not playerish and I felt like "Wow I didn't know I could find this." and I finally was able to be myself around others.

    Fast forward to post college, meeting women, finding a job, fulfilling career, all these things seemed harder than expected. Idk why I thought life just hands you an adult life starter kit, but I realized everything that happens to me now I have to make happen myself. That's when I ran into the new I-don't-deserve-this problem, all the things I wanted I had to be someone else to get. All I could do was look up self help programs, advice, articles on the internet, and all that really ended up happening was slaps to my self esteem. To get women you need to be confident, to get a good job you need to be a go-getter, to get a fulfilling career and make your dreams come true you need to be a risk taker, to get this you need to be a hustler, disciplined, out going, a leader, alpha, respected, thick skinned, not care what people think about you, have your shit together, responsible, not insecure, not needy, focused, have a 5 year plan, have no debt, have good credit, have life figured out, have a life etc etc. In the face of all this self help advice, reading articles of 10 things women want in a man, 10 habits of wealthy people, 10 things all successful people do and yada yada yada, I felt completely unworthy, seeing things on these lists I didn't have seeing things on the list of things you shouldn't have that I do have, it just made me feel like ultimately I'm not the kind of person that gets these things in life and therefore I am not the kind of person who deserves this, because I don't have the qualities/what it takes. There is an outgoing, confident, responsible, assertive, "alpha" version of myself in my mind that looks at me and shakes his head at every day I fail to become him, telling me that I will never get where I want to get or what I want to get in this life unless I become him, he is the ideal me, the me that has life figured out, that has his shit together, that can talk to strangers without lack of social abilities, that is charismatic with every woman he encounters, an assertive go-getter, tht is installed with evrey should have on every one of those lists and freed from every should not have. And until I'm him or close to him, I have the feeling deep down that I don't deserve the things I want, because that's what it takes and I don't have that, so I don't get those things, respect, love and admiration, because those things are reserved for the people who are like that.

    Sorry, that was more than a few reasons.

    TLDR: Conditioned Perfectionism.
    Last edited by L P; 07-28-2019 at 08:50 PM.
    Anunnaki Spirit, KidPeculiar, Sei35 and 3 others thanked this post.


     
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