[Enneagram Type 4] Difference of the 4 and 6 pattern

Difference of the 4 and 6 pattern

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This is a discussion on Difference of the 4 and 6 pattern within the Type 4 Forum - The Individualist forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; ...

  1. #1
    Unknown

    Difference of the 4 and 6 pattern

    A lot of Sixes are mistyping as Fours. One of the reason for mistyping is due to how type 4 is frequently described. The picture of a romantic, feeling, artistic and melancholic type is especially appealing to all NF types regardless if they are actually 4s or not. On the other hand a lot of type 6 descriptions tend to give a rather SJ picture of a dutiful and loyal person. But even if you scratch off such rather stereotypical portrays there are a lot of 6s who will point out how much they can relate to the 4 descriptions.

    The interesting thing for me is how many people relate to the 4 descriptions but interpret them in a sixish way. A while ago I realized that there are similar words used to describe 4s and 6s which makes for some confusion. After some great help I can hopefully make better sense of it now.

    being different Ė being deviating
    understanding yourself Ė knowing yourself
    to be authentic Ė to be true to yourself

    Itís not a matter which set of terms you like better but what pattern lies behind those.

    Being different Ė being deviating
    Fours have a deep-ingrained feeling that thereís something wrong with them. They donít know what it is, but itís at the root of their alienation and their feeling of being different. Sixes on the other hand are a relating type and notice how they deviate from the norm and how they are different from others. It becomes noticeable in how both types react towards a changing or fixing. For Sixes itís about getting rid of their flaws and fixing the things that make them deviate (Of course thereís also the counter version 6 who is deliberately deviating from the norm), whereas Fours donít know whatís wrong with them. So how could you fix it anyway? But even if it would be possible thereís a repulsion coming up because it is so deeply ingrained in them, itís part of who they are and getting rid of it would mean getting rid of who they are.

    Understanding yourself Ė knowing yourself
    The core fear of Sixes is of not knowing themselves and of not having an inner guidance. Knowing themselves means for Sixes to get a better sense of their self, to know what they are and want and of not following someone elseís lead or idea. Understanding for Fours means to understand whatís wrong with them. In comparison with Sixes they have a strong sense of self though they donít think they understand themselves because understanding themselves would mean they would understand what makes them wrong.
    Getting healthy 6s will get a stronger sense of self while 4s realize thereís nothing wrong with them at all.

    To be authentic Ė to be true to yourself
    Being true to yourself ties in with the 6s fear of following someoneís elses lead and of not having an inner guidance. If they are in accordance with their own self and their own lead they are true to themselves. 4s as image-type are concerned about presenting themselves as authentic (being authentic) and of not showing off an artifical image.
    OrangeAppled, Scruffy, Wake and 141 others thanked this post.



  2. #2

    Hey thanks for that! As of the past few days, I took it in as a possibility that maybe I've mistyped myself as a 4, though maybe I'm really a 6. But this definitely clears matters up.

  3. #3

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    Fours have a deep-ingrained feeling that thereís something wrong with them. They donít know what it is, but itís at the root of their alienation and their feeling of being different.

    Understanding for Fours means to understand whatís wrong with them. In comparison with Sixes they have a strong sense of self though they donít think they understand themselves because understanding themselves would mean they would understand what makes them wrong.

    4s as image-type are concerned about presenting themselves as authentic (being authentic) and of not showing off an artifical image.
    Oh yes, that all makes so much sense to me.

    Especially that first description of having something indefinably wrong about you. That's why I worry about people getting too close. They will see my true self - something that is flawed and wrong. I remember trying so many times to articulate why I felt like a terrible person to my therapist and settled on vastly incomplete and superficial reasons.
    susurration, BlissfulDreams, Tengwar and 14 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4
    Unknown

    Writing my previous post I wasnít thinking about a problem Iím now getting aware of. Thereís some tendency to treat descriptions as some sort of ultimate truth and to look which one fits best. If this is what people get out of it I failed in what I was going about. Iím rather hoping at getting at the different patterns of type 4 and type 6 and getting people to look away from the surfacey descriptions and to the pattern that drives them.
    Itís an attempt, not some unalterable truth and with more learning and understanding a better differentiation will maybe come about.

    Iím interested in how 4s relate, how 6s relate.

    Thanks, IndyAnnaJoan and Heartturnedtoporcelain
    Nymma, hmwith, iMaven and 4 others thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    Writing my previous post I wasn’t thinking about a problem I’m now getting aware of. There’s some tendency to treat descriptions as some sort of ultimate truth and to look which one fits best. If this is what people get out of it I failed in what I was going about. I’m rather hoping at getting at the different patterns of type 4 and type 6 and getting people to look away from the surfacey descriptions and to the pattern that drives them.[/SIZE]
    It’s an attempt, not some unalterable truth and with more learning and understanding a better differentiation will maybe come about.
    Agreed, each description is only an attempt to get at something that is really quite complex. The best way to go about it is to collect as much information as possible about the types that seem to cohere most strongly with your personality and then work out what fits best. I've disregarded quite a few posts in this forum as incorrect/inadequate in my attempt to type myself. What I'm trying to get at that I don't necessarily see the link between finding what fits best and considering enneagram descriptions as the ultimate truth or some such.

  7. #6
    Type 6w7

    this is pretty excellent.

    i really resonate on the 6 side of all the 4 vs 6 descriptions, especially understanding vs knowing self. i have always had a solid sense of identity - i have a good picture of who i am - but not of what i want, or what i should do.

    one little nitpick --
    For Sixes itís about getting rid of their flaws and fixing the things that make them deviate (Of course thereís also the counter version 6 who is deliberately deviating from the norm)
    i think what we would like is to have control over our deviations, so that we can decide if we want to show them or not. like, i don't mind that i have a short temper - it's a little lame but it is what it is, i find it amusing somewhat - but i don't want to spontaneously explode in front of others because then they might reject me for that when i don't want them to. of course, if i want them to, it doesn't really matter. i don't want to be rid of my flaws - i don't want to be just like everyone else, i like being different! - but i don't want my flaws to rule me and determine my life for me. it sort of ties into not knowing yourself. i don't really know where i want to go, but i definitely don't want my flaws deciding for me before i can decide for myself.

  8. #7

    Oh, how this made my eyes water. I wish I could fully explain how much I personally relate to some of these points... but that will make this thread far too intense for passerby.

    Thanks for this, Delphyne. You did a fine job differentiating here.

  9. #8

    I think the main difference is that fours are a heart type, and they react via shame. Sixes are a head type, so they're reaction is fear.
    There is also the theory about four being ego fixated, and six super-ego fixated.


    Type 4: Shame/counter-shame (Social subtype)


    "In the social domain you easily can feel shame for not measuring up or being a “misfit.” You feel that your protective cover is removed and that your deficiencies or shortcomings will be exposed publicly. You mitigate your envy through shame. You want to hide your defects and deficiencies, keep your fatal flaws from being detected and avoid disgrace. Your shame also helps you feel or keep a connection to others: “They’ll notice me and my deficiencies, and I’ll matter.” This makes you feel special in the eyes of others. Shame also motivates you to do better – create an elegant image, produce pride of elitism, look unique and special, in short to develop counter-shame and a sense of honor for your integrity and what you do for the group. You may become an emotional truth-teller in the group. At your worst, shame can lead to retraction into self-absorption, depression or despair."


    Type 6: Duty (Social subtype)


    "In the social domain, you assuage your fear through your loyal duty to a group or cause. You feel safe bonded together with others in a common cause where you understand the needs and assure the code of behavior. You align with people you trust through mutual obligations and sacrifice: “United we stand, divided we fall.” You find power and hence safety in the group’s authority. Knowing the rules and creating clear agreements with friends and colleagues are vital for overcoming your fear. As a Loyal Skeptic, your tendency to project negative power onto the world makes underdog causes particularly appealing. You align with the needy, the oppressed and the persecuted. You work for the cause. The call to duty mobilizes you rather not personal gain, which would expose you. But at your worst, you give away your own authority and power." - Subtypes | Enneagram Worldwide


    We are subconsciously driven by our emotional energy or passion(Anger, shame, or fear).

    "Our evolution as human beings required three basic survival behaviors, referred to in the Enneagram as the basic survival instincts or instinctual energies:


    The link explains it more in-depth.

    Understanding yourself – knowing yourself
    The core fear of Sixes is of not knowing themselves and of not having an inner guidance. Knowing themselves means for Sixes to get a better sense of their self, to know what they are and want and of not following someone else’s lead or idea. Understanding for Fours means to understand what’s wrong with them. In comparison with Sixes they have a strong sense of self though they don’t think they understand themselves because understanding themselves would mean they would understand what makes them wrong.
    Getting healthy 6s will get a stronger sense of self while 4s realize there’s nothing wrong with them at all.
    Who says there is anything wrong with the four? They do, but only because they can't seem to get over being so subconsciously drawn to their emotions. They're a heart(shame) type who is focused on their ego. This is why they feel defective and different, I do believe.

    I think I just figured out something. Yea, so.. sixes feel like they lack inner guidance. Well, Ni, the function commonly associated with 4, it seems like the complete opposite of someone who would feel that they lack inner guidance. Although, I think we can all feel that way sometimes if life is going bad.
    I completely agree with you about there being many who depend merely on surface descriptions to type, rather than looking in to what makes these types have the traits in the first freaking place.
    OrangeAppled, Nobleheart, Nobleheart and 23 others thanked this post.

  10. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by DontKnowJack View Post
    I think the main difference is that fours are a heart type, and they react via shame. Sixes are a head type, so they're reaction is fear.
    No, that's about the social subtypes only.

    In general, fours react via envy (not shame).

    Check out the rest of the pages you quoted.
    iMaven, unico and Acerbusvenator thanked this post.

  11. #10
    Type 6w7


    Wow :) nice descriptions guys.

    I can relate a lot to feeling inferior to others and having self image problems that are "in my head". I compensate for that which can feel depressing at times. Being criticized makes these worse. I did however notice not long ago that it is mostly in my head and should ignore it. It's been working lately and have regained confidence through that. I think mainly because the opposite of what I thought about myself has been shown to me.

    Btw I detach from feeling too much when I'm confronted with a situation where another person is having an emotional breakdown. I understand what is happening to that person, where it is coming from and what I need to do :\...but I don't feel together with that person. The feelings rush in later when I allow them to or by that time they have dissipated. I feel very strongly thou when it comes to my own feelings and base decisions with those in mind. Have been looking at the INTP description due to this but it doesn't resonate much with me *sigh*.

    Could this be a type 5 thing or it is just the huge amount of stress I'm under most of the time?
    Juan M thanked this post.


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