Type Four Misidentifications

Type Four Misidentifications

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This is a discussion on Type Four Misidentifications within the Type 4 Forum - The Individualist forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; ...

  1. #1
    Type 8

    Type Four Misidentifications

    • Type Four-Type One

    Since Ones and Fours are so different, it might seem strange that they can be confused. The confusion seems to arise when a One (who may be going to Four under stress) begins to think that he or she is a Four. Invariably, Ones who misidentify themselves as Fours focus almost exclusively on the traits of the unhealthy Four and not on the type as a whole. Because they feel melancholy, depressed, and alienated from others, they may convince themselves that they must be Fours. If Ones have been having more severe difficulties, they may be "shunting" to Four more continuously to avoid falling into even more unhealthy Levels of type One–a far more serious problem. At such times, Ones are typically guilt-ridden, feel worthless, and are subject to excruciating self-contempt and self-hatred. (They may even felt suicidal). Their confusion would clear if they were to look at themselves historically and see both themselves and the Four as a whole.
    In the average Levels, Ones usually attend to their responsibilities first, and deal with their feelings later. Their lack of focus on their feelings is actually one of the main causes of their not infrequent depressions. (It is also worth mentioning that Ones are one of the types more vulnerable to depression.) Fours, on the other hand, want to sort out their feelings first, and deal with their duties after they have worked through their emotions. As a result, they may have difficulty mobilizing themselves to meet responsibilities. Most Ones would not give themselves permission to "indulge" their feelings in this way for very long. For lower average Fours, non-productively dwelling on their feelings can be the rule rather than the exception.
    Despite these differences, there are similarities. Both tend to be perfectionistic and dissatisfied with things as they are. Both are often frustrated with themselves and their environment, and can be perceived by others as fussy, or picky. Both can be very particular about their environment and the "rules" that they want others to observe in their personal space. ("No one comes in here without removing their shoes.") Both types can be angry: average Ones are frequently critical and irritable, but usually over others' inefficiency or failure to follow agreed upon procedures. Average Fours are often critical and picky over others' lack of awareness of their sensitivities. The may feel irritable about others' apparent coarseness. Similarly, Fours can also become resentful when they feel that others' do not appreciate their depth and creativity. If upset in this way, Fours attempt to punish the offenders by coldly withdrawing emotionally or even physically. They refuse to engage in further communication. Average Ones do not withdraw from people. On the contrary, they press themselves and their opinions on others with increasing urgency as they become angrier at what they see as the irresponsibility of others.
    It is also possible for an occasional healthy Four to be mistaken for a One; such a misidentification would, however, be a compliment to the Four since it indicates that he or she has integrated to One and is living with purpose beyond the self. Fortunately for them, some Fours actually do integrate and begin to manifest the reason, moderation, and attraction to objective values of healthy Ones. Further, some Fours may well be teachers and in a teaching situation be called on to move beyond their feelings and interior states. But a Four who has genuinely integrated some of the healthy qualities of type One is still a Four—and besides having either a Three-wing or a Five-wing, other important characteristics, will continue to be present in the Four's overall personality. Contrast a Four such as Anne Rice and a One such as Martha Stewart or a Four such as Tennessee Williams and a One such as Arthur Miller for more insight into these types.
    PeacePassion, Evgenia, hmm and 25 others thanked this post.

  2. #2
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Two

    Twos and Fours can be confused primarily because they are both Feeling types, and because they both put great emphasis on the ups and downs of their personal relationships. Even with these similarities, however, these two types are seldom mistaken for each other. When they are, it is usually because they are defining the types too narrowly. For instance, some Twos might mistype themselves as Fours if they have been through a depression or have recently been through the end of an important relationship. They may learn that Fours are a depressive type and deduce that since they have been depressed that they are probably Fours. In fact, all nine types can be depressed: feeling sad or alienated in itself is not an indication of being any particular type. Twos may also hear that Fours are romantic, and seeing themselves as romantic mistype themselves. Female Fours who have been reared in traditional or strongly religious environments may identify themselves as Twos, but this is a danger for woman of all types. Some Fours may also have been under stress for a while may similarly recognize many Two-ish behaviors.
    Their differences are not difficult to recognize, however. Twos tend to move toward others and engage them, sometimes excessively. Fours tend to withdraw from others, while hoping that others will seek them out. Twos look for people to rescue, Fours look for someone to rescue them. Twos are very aware of others' feelings, but tend to be unaware of their own motivations and needs. Fours are highly attuned to their own emotional states, but can fail to recognize their impact on others, and so forth.

  3. #3
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Three

    Here also, misidentifications are probably the result of confusion over wing versus dominant type: 3w4 and 4w3. The primary difference between these types can be seen in their relationship with their emotional life. Threes tend to focus on task, on efficiency, on performance. Of course, Threes have feelings, but as much as possible, they put them on the backburner whenever there are things to get done—and with many Threes, that is most of the time. As Threes become less healthy, they increasingly see their own feelings as "speed bumps"–annoyances that must be dealt with but which interfere with their effectiveness. Threes want to get their goals accomplished, and then, time permitting, process their feelings.
    Fours are almost the exact opposite. Naturally, Fours want to accomplish things too, but when difficult feelings arise, Fours want to stop what they are doing and process them before returning to their tasks. The less healthy the Four, the more he or she will need lots of time to sort through troubling feelings and reactions. Threes can see the Four's preoccupation with sorting feelings as unprofessional and immature. Fours can see the Three's obsession with performance as inauthentic and shallow.
    It is far more common for Threes to mistype as Fours than vice versa. This is especially true for Threes who grew up in families in which artistic self-expression was particularly valued. They may mistakenly believe that only Fours are creative, while failing to recognize that there have been many noted artists who are Threes.

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  5. #4
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Five

    Fours and Fives can resemble each other in that both are withdrawn types (PT, 433-36), both can be individualistic and eccentric by mainstream cultural standards, and both can be highly creative. Of course, there is a greater risk of mistyping with 4w5s and 5w4s.
    Fives are more likely to mistype as Fours than vice versa, primarily because of simplistic definitions of the types. Some Fives have learned that Fours are more feeling-oriented, and Fives are more intellectual, and seeing that they have deep feelings presume that they must be Fours. (This is especially true with female Fives.) Also, Fives are often portrayed as scientists or engineers while Fours are creative artists. In fact, it is true that Fours are less likely to be scientists than some other types, but there are as many Fives who are artists as Fours, although their styles are somewhat different.
    Fours are self-absorbed and emotionally volatile–they express their feelings one way or another, and need people to respond to them in an emotional way. Their artistic work tends to be autobiographical, based on their families, on relationships, past or unrequited, and on the content of their subjective experience. Fives may have intense feelings but share them with few people. Their feelings tend to fuel their thoughts and their imagination, leading them to more abstract or fantastic forms of creative expression. Their work is less autobiographical, and more often portrays their vision of reality. ("I paint what I see!") Fives tend to be more experimental and outlandish in their artwork. Although both types can explore personal darkness more thoroughly than most, Fours tend to focus on their disappointments in love and with their childhoods and their attendant pain. Fives tend to focus on inner emptiness and feelings of meaninglessness. Fives are more driven to penetrate the surface of things to understand, Fours to get in touch with feelings and cathartically express them. compare Fours Ingmar Bergman and Anne Rice with Fives David Lynch and Clive Barker.

  6. #5
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Six

    While there are real similarities between the two types, there are even more differences. The principal difference is that Sixes are usually extremely appealing and relate well to people; they have the ability to unconsciously engage the emotions of others so that others will like them and form secure relationships with them. Fours, in contrast, do not relate primarily to people but to their own inner emotional states. Fours take it for granted that they are alone in life, and find it difficult to form bonds with others—something that comes easily to Sixes. The psychic structures of the two types are also very different: Fours are true introverts, while Sixes are a blend of introversion and extroversion—true ambiverts who possess qualities of both orientations.
    Confusion arises between these types principally on the part of Sixes who think that they are Fours for two main reasons. First, some Sixes identify with the negative side of the Four (depression, inferiority, self-doubt, and hopelessness, for example) and think they must be Fours because they recognize similar traits in themselves. The difference lies in the motivations for these traits. For example, while all the types can become depressed, Fours do so because they are disappointed with themselves for having lost some opportunity to actualize themselves. They become depressed when they realize that in their search for self, they have gone down a blind alley and now must pay the price. Unhealthy, depressed Fours are essentially angry with themselves for bringing this on themselves or for allowing it to happen.
    By contrast, Sixes become depressed when they fear that they have done something to make their authority figure mad at them. Their depression is a response to their self-disparagement; it comes from the fear that the authority is angry with them and will punish them. Thus, the depression of Sixes is exogenous (coming from the outside) and can be relieved by a word of reassurance from the authority. This is not the case with Fours whose depression is endogenous (coming from the inside), a response to their self-accusations.
    Second, we have characterized the Four as The Individualist , and some Sixes who are artistic think that they therefore must be Fours. However, as noted above in the discussion of Fours and Nines, artistic talent is not the sole domain of Fours, so it is entirely possible for Sixes to be artists of one kind or another. Even so, there are important differences in the creative work produced by these two types.
    In general, Sixes tend to be performing artists, while Fours tend to be original creators. Sixes are more likely to be actors or musicians than poets and playwrights, more likely to perform the words or music of someone else than to create it themselves. Even those Sixes who are creative tend either to be traditionalists, creating within firmly established rules and styles, or they go to an extreme and become rebellious, reacting against traditionalism–such as rock stars and experimental novelists who purposely defy traditional forms. In either case, both tradition and reactions against it are an important aspect of their art. The themes typically found in the art of Sixes have to do with belonging, security, family, politics, country, and common values.
    Creative Fours, by contrast, are individualists who go their own way to explore their feelings and other subjective personal states. The artistic products of Fours are much less involved either with following a tradition or with reacting against it. Fours are less apt to use political or communal experiences as the subject matter for their work, choosing instead the movements of their own souls, their personal revelations, the darkness and light they discover in themselves as they become immersed in the creative process. By listening to their inner voices, even average Fours may speak to the universal person or fail to communicate to anyone, at least to their contemporaries. They may be ahead of their time not because they are trying to be rebellious or avant-garde, but because they develop their own forms to express their personal point of view. What is important to Fours is not the tradition but personal truth. Tradition is no more than a backdrop against which Fours play out their own personal dramas. Compare and contrast the personalities of Rudolf Nureyev and Peter Ilich Tchaikovsky (Fours) with those of Mikhail Baryshnikov and Johannes Brahms (Sixes) for further similarities and differences.
    PeacePassion, SenhorFrio, susurration and 17 others thanked this post.

  7. #6
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Seven

    Fours and Sevens are vastly different, and except for a superficial similarity at Level 6 of both types, it would be difficult to see how anyone familiar with both could misidentify them for long.
    It seems, however, that the basis for mistaking them is that both types tend to be excessive–Sevens go to extremes in the external, material world with the lavishness and number of possessions and experiences they acquire. Highly materialistic, Sevens tend to become jaded and hardened, insensitive and demanding, selfish and uncaring about others. At Level 6, we have characterized them as The Excessive Materialist.
    Fours at the same Level (The Self-Indulgent Aesthete) are also excessive and go to extremes, although emotional extremes. Emotionally self-indulgent, average Fours go for the big emotional charge in their fantasy lives, allowing themselves to feel and imagine anything, no matter how ultimately unrealistic or emotionally debilitating it might be. They wallow in their feelings and fantasies, squeezing the last breath of life from them to reinforce their sense of self. Thus the Four's self-indulgences are more internal and private, centered on the emotional world they inhabit. Outwardly, their emotional excess is expressed in an increasing preciosity and impracticality, an effete, over ripe decadence and sensuality that is the main point of similarity between the two types. While both types may become decadent and sensual, Sevens do so to dissipate themselves and thus flee from anxiety. By contrast, Fours embrace sensuality, luxuriating in sex or drink or drugs to heighten their emotions and to deaden the pain of their self-consciousness.
    Both types share a love of fine, expensive things, although here too there are differences. Fours make do with fewer material things, cherishing beautiful objects for the sake of their beauty and the feelings that beauty awakens in them. A stone picked up on the beach or a twig with a single bud can quicken their aesthetic feelings and satisfy them. By contrast, while average Sevens want to possess beautiful objects, they become increasingly unappreciative and insensitive to the beauty or value of those objects. They become acquisitive not because they enjoy things for themselves but because possessing things provides a sense of security. And even more fundamentally, what excites Sevens is the stimulation they feel when they desire something new. The stimulation of their appetites reinforces their sense of self, although once they have actually acquired what they want, they usually lose interest in they acquisition. The pair of shoes that they were "dying" to have joins the racks with dozens of others; the fur coat they were drooling over for weeks suddenly becomes "that old thing" as they turn their attention to acquiring something else. In short, average Sevens tend to be acquisitive materialists, while average Fours tend to be languishing aesthetes–very different types. Compare the styles of Bob Dylan (a Four) and of Elton John (a Seven) and those of Ingmar Bergman (a Four) with Steven Spielberg (a Seven) to understand the difference.

  8. #7
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Eight

    At first, it would seem extremely unlikely that Fours and Eights would be mistyped for one another, but it does occasionally occur. More often, Eights mistake themselves for Fours because they see themselves as passionate and intense feelings, and this is usually true. Similarly Eights may well recall childhood hurts and identify with the Fours' sense of alienation or loneliness. But Eights cope with these feelings in radically different ways than Fours do. Eights learn to toughen themselves up and to "get over it" so that they can do what they need to do to maintain their independence and personal authority. Fours find it difficult to let go of their childhood wounds and do not want to "get over it." Fours do not necessarily want to be dependent on anyone, but they are willing to rely on others if it gives them the time and resources to work out their feelings or to develop their creativity.
    Eights do feel vulnerable inside, but as much as possible, they steel themselves against any feelings of insecurity and weakness in themselves. Eights tend to see such feelings as self-indulgent luxuries for people who have no serious responsibilities. Fours show their vulnerability, but can be much tougher and controlling than they generally realize. In fact, Fours are quite resilient and can endure emotional difficulties and losses that would cause most other types to collapse. In a strange way, Eights are like Fours turned inside-out. Contrast Fours like Roy Orbison and Johnny Depp with Eights like Frank Sinatra and Sean Penn.
    PeacePassion, decided, susurration and 9 others thanked this post.

  9. #8
    Type 8

    • Type Four-Type Nine

    Some average Nines think that they are Fours because they have artistic talents and creative inclinations of one kind or another. As in the case of love not being the sole domain of Twos, artistic capacity is not the sole province of Fours. Other types can be, and often are, artists.
    Even so, the artistry of Fours is much more personal and self-revealing than that of Nines. The art of Nines often expresses idealized, mythological, and archetypal worlds–usually the real world glossed into something fantastic and wondrous. Nines are often gifted storytellers in which "...and they all lived happily ever after" is assured. (There are no unhappy endings in the Nine's world of make-believe.) By contrast, the art of Fours is generally more personal and realistic, the expression of the Four's (and of everyone's) deep longing for love, wholeness, and meaning. Fours often deal in the tragic, finding redemption in self-transcendence; Nines deal in the commonplace, finding comfort in ordinary lives and simple situations.
    The principal reason these types may be confused is that they are both withdrawn types. (PT, 433-36). Fours withdraw from others so that they can protect themselves and give themselves time to deal with their emotions. Nines, on the other hand, are withdrawn in the sense that they remove their attention from people or situations that threaten them, disengaging themselves emotionally so that they will not be anxious or upset. They cut off their identification with others (or never identify with them in the first place), identifying instead with a private idealized version of reality. Average to unhealthy Nines tune out any unpleasantness by dissociating from whatever upsets them, whereas Fours do just the opposite, brooding over their anxieties in an attempt to come to terms with them. Fours are certainly not detached from their emotions–just the reverse, they are keenly aware of them, perhaps too much so.
    Both types can therefore be shy, absent-minded, confused, and detached from the real world. The difference is that Nines are detached both from the external world and from their emotions, whereas Fours withdraw from whatever has caused them pain. (In the end, that may add up to quite a lot.) Nines see the world through rose-colored glasses, and their view of it is comforting, whereas Fours see the world from a garret window as outsiders and are not comforted: everyone else seems to be living a happier, more normal life. Contrast the personalities of Mahler (a Four) and Aaron Copland (a Nine), Saul Steinberg (a Four) and Norman Rockwell (a Nine).


    That's it for Type Four.

  10. #9

    Interesting thread, thank you. There's a bit of stereotyping, though.
    Grey, susurration, chasingdreams and 1 others thanked this post.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    • Type Four-Type Five
    Also, Fours withdraw to support their self-image of being different or special and hope that someone will notice and go to try to understand and rescue them emotionally. Fives withdraw to support their self-image of being able to rely on their thinking or learning abilities for guidance and hope that they won't be interrupted by other people or anything else that might place external demands on them.
    Grey, Larkjule, Empty and 2 others thanked this post.

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