[Enneagram Type 4] 4w3 or 3w4

4w3 or 3w4

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  • 1 Post By weijiangling
  • 1 Post By Neokortex

This is a discussion on 4w3 or 3w4 within the Type 4 Forum - The Individualist forums, part of the Heart Triad - Types 2,3,4 category; Were any of your confused as to whether you were 3w4 or 4w3 how did you resolve this??...

  1. #1

    4w3 or 3w4

    Were any of your confused as to whether you were 3w4 or 4w3 how did you resolve this??



  2. #2
    Type 3w4

    This thread is super old, but I found it because I have the same question and I'm disappointed there aren't any answers. My biggest differentiating points currently are:

    -I am very emotional in the sense of frequently internally feeling a big overwhelming feeling, but I am also frequently not sure what that feeling is and will definitely try to shove it aside as long as there's something important to get done or someone else watching. If I do share what I'm feeling (and I do with close friends fairly regularly), it's usually to get them to be a sounding board for figuring out what the heck I'm actually feeling so I can get over it and get on with my life, not really to focus on it. Though sometimes I do share things because I deeply want them to be validated and accepted, so I'm not sure how strong of a point this one really is.

    -I can get very stuck in a negative frame of mind and feel like there is something missing in my life or something wrong with me, but only really as long as things are actually going badly for me (or if I'm in a particularly bad wave of chemical depression). I will generally take action as much as possible to show myself that I'm not a failure and I'm not broken or cursed or whatever else I might be calling myself, and when I succeed at that, the feeling of being those things subsides. (I'm led to believe that the "something missing" feeling for core fours is more perpetual than circumstantial, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

    -I want to be unique AND competent, but if I'm forced to choose only one, I will go with competent every time.

    -I sure am generally okay with being a chameleon and think shapeshifting to the environment I'm in can be a very useful skill. I occasionally feel cognitive dissonance with that versus some tenuous concept of my "real self", but usually only when I'm actively trying to be "authentic/honest" and realise I'm still censoring myself based on the environment, or I'm feeling a big mood I can't ignore and people indicate to me that I'm portraying the exact opposite. Even then, sometimes the "exact opposite" version of that is pretty intentional and therefore doesn't really bother me.

    -I can really only take so much romanticism in a relationship. I want to know the other person cares (which does involve a certain amount of sharing emotional things and validating me in ways that allow for vulnerability), but I don't really want to spend a ton of time talking about feelings (theirs or mine). I like deep conversations, but often more on intellectual/philosophical lines than personal ones. I've been in that kind of stereotypically romantic emotional relationship and I mostly just find it suffocating. I actually have historically done a lot better with people who have been accused by others of being emotionally unavailable.

    -I don't really do the push/pull thing that fours seem to be known for. If something is going well for me, I make sure to keep it that way.

    -I feel like 3's connections to 6 and 9 make a lot more personal sense to me than 4's connections to 1 and 2.

    I'd be interesting in hearing other thoughts people have on this, too (especially if you are a core four and this actually resonates) since I still wonder despite all that. People who don't know me very well tend to guess that I'm either a 4 or a 5, but a few people who have a clearer view of me than most all agree that 3 sounds (by a small margin) like my primary way of functioning.

  3. #3
    Type 4w3

    I read somewhere that the difference between a 4w3 and a 3w4 is that the 3w4 will choose success over their identity and will compromise on their true self in order to be who the world wants them to be. A 4w3 on the other hand will not compromise their values and will maintain their identity and beliefs at the cost of popularity or success.

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  5. #4
    Type 6w5

    I don't know if the OP is even interested in input anymore, but I'll answer in the perspective of a 4w3 who has had this question in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by weijiangling View Post
    -I am very emotional in the sense of frequently internally feeling a big overwhelming feeling, but I am also frequently not sure what that feeling is and will definitely try to shove it aside as long as there's something important to get done or someone else watching. If I do share what I'm feeling (and I do with close friends fairly regularly), it's usually to get them to be a sounding board for figuring out what the heck I'm actually feeling so I can get over it and get on with my life, not really to focus on it. Though sometimes I do share things because I deeply want them to be validated and accepted, so I'm not sure how strong of a point this one really is.
    Of course, I am also emotional and experience that huge, overwhelming feeling very often. But I can't just shove it aside and move on, I need to marinade in that feeling. I need to reflect on it and figure it out. I have tried to push it aside and work on whatever needs to be done, but it will obviously affect my work. I've found that I wear my heart on my sleeve even if I try not to do so. My opinion is, if I'm mistyped and I'm actually a 3w4, I'm fucking horrible at it.

    -I want to be unique AND competent, but if I'm forced to choose only one, I will go with competent every time.
    Yes, being unique AND competent is extremely ideal. But I think I'd rather choose unique given those two choices.

    -I sure am generally okay with being a chameleon and think shapeshifting to the environment I'm in can be a very useful skill. I occasionally feel cognitive dissonance with that versus some tenuous concept of my "real self", but usually only when I'm actively trying to be "authentic/honest" and realise I'm still censoring myself based on the environment, or I'm feeling a big mood I can't ignore and people indicate to me that I'm portraying the exact opposite. Even then, sometimes the "exact opposite" version of that is pretty intentional and therefore doesn't really bother me.
    I hate the idea of being a chameleon. I find that I'm not great at shapeshifting into whatever the environment needs. I'm not a very adaptable person. I've felt like I'm a 3 because I don't think that I'm as honest as I could be, but at the same time the fact that I'm perpetually bothered by the idea of me being someone I'm not does make me point toward 4 as my typing.

    -I can really only take so much romanticism in a relationship. I want to know the other person cares (which does involve a certain amount of sharing emotional things and validating me in ways that allow for vulnerability), but I don't really want to spend a ton of time talking about feelings (theirs or mine). I like deep conversations, but often more on intellectual/philosophical lines than personal ones. I've been in that kind of stereotypically romantic emotional relationship and I mostly just find it suffocating. I actually have historically done a lot better with people who have been accused by others of being emotionally unavailable.
    Never been in a relationship. I'm definitely going to need some space if I ever get involved in one, but I strongly desire deep, personal conversations with a significant other.

    -I feel like 3's connections to 6 and 9 make a lot more personal sense to me than 4's connections to 1 and 2.
    Same... But I think I'm a 469 tritype which might explain why.

    And here are some points of my own that makes me type as 4w3 instead of 3w4:

    -I am ambitious, but I spend more time envying others for their successes instead of trying to recreate the successes on my own because I feel like I am inherently incapable and defective.

    -My relationship to shame. I can never seem to move on from it, and I self-deprecate a lot. I heard that 3s tend to want to ignore it and not deal with it. But I dwell in it constantly, and for years. It makes me feel inherently different, that there is a barrier between me and others even when I try to act "normal," keeping me as a separate entity who can't cope with society.

    -I identify with my pain much more than my successes. I can't separate myself from the bad things that happen to me, they are a huge part of me. They make me, me.

  6. #5
    Type 4w3


    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Beggar View Post
    I hate the idea of being a chameleon. I find that I'm not great at shapeshifting into whatever the environment needs. I'm not a very adaptable person. I've felt like I'm a 3 because I don't think that I'm as honest as I could be, but at the same time the fact that I'm perpetually bothered by the idea of me being someone I'm not does make me point toward 4 as my typing.
    I second that... but who doesn't hate the idea of being a chameleon? Or: is there really anyone out there who is willing to admit truly that they have been and will be a chameleon and in that sense are not really reliable, can't really be figured out? Is there anyone willing, especially here on a typology site, to admit to be lying to you, for their own social networking, materialistic agenda, to blow their cover? Of course not, this is the internet, a goldmine of opportunities and we're all competitors, "enemies" to each other.

    I've also had struggles with that w3. Or that thing inside me that pushes me to smile at times, to look lively, happy, up to the task. To differentiate the "Social instinct" from E3, I think the keyword is "competence." E3 is an ability mimic. "There's no way I'm not good enough, no way I can't do what the other can..." and it goes on and on... No critical thinking involved: even if that ability/task proves later to be detrimental relative to the actual circumstances. I lie about my emotions, I promise more competence than what I can actually handle... then it all eats me out from the inside later. Am I an oily, skeezy salesman always doomed for mortification by constantly having caught not living up to his promises? No wonder why I don't follow through with courtship... it's only interesting until they "are sold on the idea," then it's time for the downers, the personal drama. "I don't want a surrogate mom, you know, but please someone understand my tortured soul." It's only interesting until you become self-aware that it was your marketing that was the condition for their interest, you showing strength was the trick, love has never been "unconditional," it never will...
    Unsainted thanked this post.


     

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