[Enneagram Type 6] How 4s differ from NF 6-es and why we mistype - is this true?

How 4s differ from NF 6-es and why we mistype - is this true?

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This is a discussion on How 4s differ from NF 6-es and why we mistype - is this true? within the Type 6 Forum - The Loyalist forums, part of the Head Triad - Types 5,6,7 category; I found something on the enneagrminstitute's boards....something I could relate to really well. The spark was this line by someone: ...

  1. #1
    Type 6w7


    How 4s differ from NF 6-es and why we mistype - is this true?

    I found something on the enneagrminstitute's boards....something I could relate to really well.

    The spark was this line by someone:
    INFP 6w7's - sp/sx mix of some kind. They think they are 4's because they have a whole lot of things in common with that enneagram type. They often have considerable push-pull issues.
    Which was followed by stuff like this:

    When 4's are unhealthy they are boring snobs.
    When 6's are unhealthy you hate them.

    6's move the emotions of others 100% more than 4's....with out even trying.

    4's fall back on shock value or with draw. If they poor their failure into creation, those creations can move people, yet they themself are still boring snobs or over done shock drama.

    NF 6's live a much richer life of emotion than 4's on the whole. 4's will nurse the same emotions for years. NF 6's LIVE a world of many many deep emotions.

    Really it is better to be a NF 6 than a 4. imo

    NF 6's can really connect with people.

    4's are so self absorbed they fail to understand others on any deep level....although they will spend years nursing the emotions the others invoked in them.


    sx first 4's come close to nf 6's on the emotional gutting Ability. although once again the 'hurt' is found in the creations not the person. The 4 them self just makes you want to roll your eyes at them when they are unhealthy. (An unhealthy 4 is platitudinous and pompous...yawn)

    A 6 can make you want to kill them with your bare hands. (An unhealthy 6 is exhausting...malignant crazy loon or vindictive Passive aggression).
    4s are very self-absorbed and have much less mercurial and direct emotions than sixes (heart vs. head triad) even though both are in the reactive triad.

    The emotional scope of fours is narrow and narcissistic - they are likely to explore all the angles of an emotion, introspect, dwell in the emotion prolongedly to get as much out of it as they can. 6s will react off other people more and directly. The hearts of fours can be closed to others - they explore themselves. Many a six has told me that my heart is closed off to them.

    The emotional world of a four is prevailingly rich stylistic-wise and personal to them (rather than in conjunction with others) and they tend to have more monochrome than sixes. Fours don't do angst as much as sixes, which probably points to what VO is saying.
    .........strangely enough I could relate as a NFP 6 or better said couldn't relate to what the 4 said.

    Plz discuss...
    zsherryfla, Paradigm, white-knuckle and 7 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    Type 6

    Wow, thats funny in a kind of stangely accurate way in personal relation though I do wander what some 4's might have to say about this. A lot of the 6 stuff does ring pretty true though. I do like to emotionally provoke people not in a negative sense but to push them out of their emotional cuckoon when it comes to something important like a social issue. But, somebody reacting badly to a badly reacting 6 is not something I seek out, no matter how reactive I get, its important the other person stays calm and doesn't provoke me further otherwise I get extremely frustrated and angry. Fighting fire with fire is not advised.

    A 6 can make you want to kill them with your bare hands. (An unhealthy 6 is exhausting...malignant crazy loon or vindictive Passive aggression).
    Actually, I feel like I am capable of killing someone with my bare hands when provoked, I get pretty virile and unstoppable, its weird coz im pretty calm for the most part but provoke me and I can fly off the handle, maybe im just hypersensitive.

    Interesting information.

  3. #3

    4's are so self absorbed they fail to understand others on any deep level....although they will spend years nursing the emotions the others invoked in them.
    Unfortunately, the bolded part is very true for me. I wouldn't say I don't understand others on a deep level though. Personally, getting to the core of others is extremely fulfilling. Upon connecting with someone, it's almost a need for me to know them better than they know themselves. Does my self absorption get in the way? Sometimes, but I usually don't let it.

    The emotional scope of fours is narrow and narcissistic - they are likely to explore all the angles of an emotion, introspect, dwell in the emotion prolongedly to get as much out of it as they can. 6s will react off other people more and directly. The hearts of fours can be closed to others - they explore themselves. Many a six has told me that my heart is closed off to them.
    My 4-ness and my Fi make me a very self-absorbed person altogether. Everything I experience is rehashed in my mind over and over again. Every interaction, I manage to twist back in a way that relates to me. I squeeze out the emotional juices of a situation and feed on them ravenously. I wouldn't use the word narcissistic though, because a Four's perception of themselves is a mix of self-loathing/shame and pride. We don't delude ourselves into thinking we're absolutely wonderful. There is a big part of us that believes we are flawed. Something's wrong with us, something is missing. It is this lack that becomes a source of pride.

    About being closed off to others.. Yes, I suppose that is true. I think I long more for someone to explore me than I actually allow it. I'd much rather explore myself, it's safer.

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  5. #4

    yes, yes... I relate to the unhealthy 6 ! And i am NFP. There is no hope, ppl avoid me, my life turn shit, ect, ect , ectdskjgfklsdjfk, and I don't think I give a fuck anymore



    I strongly think that the unhealthy side of ppl come from when their last function become overly active (and this don't mean that function work great), and overwrite their id function.
    Take NiFeTiSe 4 (enneagram 4 is Ni, whatever you want to think) : with Se overactive, they are "too" aware that they need to do an impact on the world/experience sensation with what they do or their creation. They have explored all side of their personnality, then all what left for reinstating their ego is their last function : in a sense their personnality stop to be the sublimation of the Se power, they think they are actually the Se power, but a weak one since the function is not well develloped. Their emotionnal side (Fi id function) is suppressed of the consciousness due to Se overactive, then their Fe begin to lose wideness, "large scope", because they can't feed it anymore with Fi. That's probably for this reason they try to cultivate them, ie due to a fear of loss. Their deep symbolism (Ni) begin to be not much deep and more provocative/out of track, because their try to grasp profound symbol is quickly blocked by sensible need for impact/reality. Their creation begin to be more and more disconnected from the world (this don't mean they are bad or haven't meaning), esoterical and surrealist. If they loss their inspiration/creative activity too that's the open door for schizophrenia.

    Same with FiNe 6 : Te become on overdrive and overwrite Ni as id function. Thinking they was doing "great", They have accumulated knowledge in all what interested them : they have planned the unplannable, they have logicated the unlogicable. They have simply retired all surprise in life. They can't stop thinking about 1 or 2 theme max, loss their abstract thinking, worry about 1 theme and think the world revolve around that. They can't grasp any other thematic since their Ni is off, and their Ne is diminished due to that. They become aware that their life have become a total robotic stuff wich lack hope, so they try to reinstate interpretation of image/meaning Ni way, but can't avoid using Te wich block the experience of this : no one meaning is left valuable for themself.
    Their Te finally derail because of the conflict beetween what they experience as the harsh reality (Te) and the need for spirituality (Ni) and they go neurotic, have ritual, think about metaphysical bullshit, fear their goal, avoid responsability, try to "fix" their opinion on things in a world of change, end up in a prison of though. Their Fi lose deepness because all emotion, all things are rationnalized immediately when it happen, so they can't grasp nor understand any profound emotion. They basically become a bad 1, but a unintelligent, disconnected and unasertive one.



    Finally MBTI learn something very depressive : we are all the sublimation of a function, our last function. When life begin, this function, for wich we feel a natural attraction, is full of promise and greatness, because our id is "deluding" ourself that way : or it's more we think that one day we will be able to meet our id "without compromise" - we aren't in contact with the sad reality of our last function, but are in full contact with a powerfull id. When young, we confound our id power with our last, weak function. As we age, we begin to hate this last function ("we hate our father", if some can make the connection with psychoanalysis), since we become aware that the id function is different of the function itself, and id give more pleasure/sense of personnality than the last function itself. If the conflict become to strong, if you lose sight to your shadow or id, you end neurotic, psychotic, ect.
    Last edited by noaydi; 06-26-2012 at 05:45 AM.
    white-knuckle and FreeBeer thanked this post.

  6. #5

    Yin and yang exists in all types. Sixes are capable of being self-absorbed. I think it's just for different reasons than a four. A four is preoccupied more often than not with their individuality and not conforming. Depending where in their journey they are is how it's going to be expressed. Sure, sometimes it might mean a stagnant decline in moving forward and feeling depressed and without energy. Yet, on the flip side they can be the most passionate. Perhaps, that reactive energy when rising to such a level can make someone more susceptible to crashing. Same concept with many drugs. Same concept with understanding are physiology, chemical balances, and how what we eat, do, how we sleep, how others affect us, and how we interpret that. Perhaps, because the 4 found such passion it was worth that artistic high. Worth going for days and days, writing, painting, or whichever expression that draws there attention.

    The six does something similar. It's are preoccupation with showing strength or being brave. Perhaps, at one time we felt weak and may at different times depending on a particular sixes cycle. Often there is talk about a traumatic childhood or event in which we felt powerless. So, that drives us to be want to brave in whichever way that applies to the particular six. Well, in challenging that sometimes we might hit boundaries and feel anxious. Sometimes something might intimidate us and throw us off our feeling powerful streak. Sixes are on a similar spectrum as 8 in for whichever reason that applies to the six makes them want to have a power grab and in whichever form that takes.

    I think the difference is a passion/depression cycle for a 4 and a anxious/feeling powerful cycle for a six. We all have to find our balance in that. A four has to find a way not to sink so low as to take their own life. That's the last thing we want because it deprives the world from seeing their artistic talents being fully realized and obviously keeps them from fully realizing the depth of that expression.

    Also, the sixes anxious/feeling powerful cycle can be dangerous. If we can't find peace then I'm certain we can't fully contribute to it. So, we have this driver and sometimes don't want to back down. Sometimes I'm very discouraged if I focus on only the negative things. I have a part in me that want to see the struggle in the world. I want to identify this "bad guy" or that "bad guy" (or woman). And stepping out too far can make me feel so hopeless. Yet, when I find a way to be inspired to make a difference then I don't let that anxiety take me too far into its depths. So, yeah both types have a lot to give the world whether in their expression or movements. It's an exciting thing.

    Sometimes I hear many members in this community talk about how negative the enneagram is. But, how they like the honesty in it. I think we need to focus on yin yang. To hopefully understand that darker side and see it but to not let that into our hearts, minds, and spirit. That there is a flip side and it's very exciting to bring that about. To recognize our strengths and to use that in the world.

    When I think of some of the great 4's I am very excited about that potential and very proud of the love they can bring. It's that not denying the heart thing. It's that feeling I get when I listen to Bob Marley. He had a tough life too. But, some of his songs about love are some of the purest expressions I've heard. It's very inspiring and makes me believe in true love.


    Some of the sixes in the world. Wow, they get so deep in their fight for man kind, they can get in a haze. Where they saw too much and don't think they can feel right again as a result. Yet, it's all worth it when you know you are bringing peace to somebody else. That you could prevent and protect someone who is defenseless. And when I see so many men crumble at the dollar bill, at greed, and lust, and take from others for self gain, and see someone stand up to it even if it meant their life, I am very hopeful and excited about what the world could be.
    zsherryfla, loonatic, FreeBeer and 4 others thanked this post.

  7. #6

    When I read you six I always get the sense my motivation are closer to 4. Strange. But Im a six, no doubt. Not the most healthy, but no doubt...

    No doubt? what I just said ? so Im not a six if Ive no doubt.
    Ah, I just doubted, so Im a six.

    ps : there is great chance bob marley was ISTp 9, or ENFp 7 with a 9 somewhere. But that's always difficult to judge with these kind of stoner.
    white-knuckle and FreeBeer thanked this post.

  8. #7

    The enneagram is like taking 50 years of mental age while staying the same physicaly : you know all your life, you know how it will unfold, this is depressing compared to your aspiration (if life haven't retired them already), then you can die
    Last edited by noaydi; 06-25-2012 at 03:50 PM.

  9. #8
    Type 4w3

    So basically... 4s like to examine their emotions, know everything about them and get everything they can out of them before moving on?

    Wow... I really can't relate to that. I don't think I'd want to focus on negative emotions at all (I've never understood people who like to wallow in negativity). Interesting, I definitely relate more to the 6 described here.
    FreeBeer and kaleidoscope thanked this post.

  10. #9
    Unknown


    When I'm at my worst I feel boring and I crave silently a lot of attention. I often demand it obliquely. I withdraw a lot too, mostly because of the apathy and discouragement. I don't think others hate me, except the impatient ones; they surely can. Instead, they just ignore me. That's because I fed them up with a lot of questions related to me and about our relationship level. I consider me self-absorbed. But I do not act snobbishly, even if sometimes I try but unsuccessfully.

    I don't think I live a rich life of emotion. I wish I could and that's because I need them to state firmly on any situation. I lose interest and I tend to become indifferent easily. Neutrality is good, but it doesn't help to stop feeling at the middle of situations. That's mainly why.

    In fact, I love connecting with people, but I really do not understand people, mainly because I'm focused on myself. That doesn't mean I'm trapped in my own world, exploring all the facets of my emotions, mmm no.
    FreeBeer and PinkDolphin thanked this post.

  11. #10
    Type 6w7

    My first thought was, "Well, someone really dislikes 4s." >_>

    This is the most important part which no one seems to understand:
    NF 6's live a much richer life of emotion than 4's on the whole. 4's will nurse the same emotions for years. NF 6's LIVE a world of many many deep emotions.
    Yes, 4s are quite emotional. But they don't really "get over" things. My aunt (ESFP 4w3--still very much a 4) will still bring up minor transgressions years afterwards. Like accidentally forgetting to invite her somewhere, or something... Try to make up for it and she'll go, "But you didn't want me to go that one time *pseudo-fake pout*." And she'll always bring up if someone 'hates her,' when they probably don't (or, at least, don't care / is neutral).

    Granted, she's not particularly in the healthier levels and she's 8-fixed; that secondary rejection type is obvious as hell now that I think about it. (Haha I thought she was 9w8-fixed--no, I am just silly.)

    I can't really speak for NF 6s. As an NT (/stereotype), I feel a bit out of place in my own body if my emotions keep swinging wildly. I'm used to my even keel. (That might even be the dysthymia talking, not the NT part.) Still, given the reactivity of 6s, I can easily see how they would be more mercurial in their emotional states, especially the 6w7s of the bunch. I imagine that most INFxs would mistype as 6w5s, though, just like most of them mistype as 4w5s... Instead of 6w7 and 4w3, respectively.

    Have had people tell me I do something like this, though:
    6's move the emotions of others 100% more than 4's....with out even trying.
    FreeBeer, cosmia and AngelOnHerFlight thanked this post.


     
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