Type Eight Misidentifications

Type Eight Misidentifications

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This is a discussion on Type Eight Misidentifications within the Type 8 Forum - The Challenger forums, part of the Body Triad - Types 8,9,1 category; ...

  1. #1
    Type 8

    Type Eight Misidentifications

    • Type Eight-Type One

    Both Ones and Eights are in the Instinctive Triad, both have strong wills, both are action-oriented, and both have strong notions about how to do things. However, Ones try to convince others to do the right thing (as they see it) from the standpoint of a moral imperative–because it is the right thing to do. They try to logically convince the other of the soundness of their views, but become irritated and less logical when others resists their reasoning. Eights, on the other hand, rely on their own self-confidence, and attempt to sway others by their gutsy convictions and sheer personal charisma. ("I don't know if it's the right way, but it's my way.") Ones try to convert those who resist them: Eights try to power through them.
    The greatest misunderstanding between these two types involves their concern with justice, although the nature of their sense of justice can be quite different. Ones hold justice as an extremely important value–many judges, attorneys, advocates, and criminal prosecutors actually are Ones. Ones think a great deal about issues of providing suitable standards for human beings and about the specifics of how to administer a fair and equitable system. Ones at all Levels of Development refer to justice and think that they seek justice (no matter how skewed their interpretation of it may become). In any case, justice is a matter of principles–part of their idealism. They strive after justice and want to rectify injustices wherever they find them because, among other reasons, to do otherwise would be to fail to live up to their high moral standards and make them feel guilty.
    In Eights, justice is more of a visceral response, a reaction to witnessing injustices occurring. Eights, generally speaking, do not walk around thinking about these matters, but if they saw a helpless person being harmed or bullied by others, without thinking about it, Eights would rush in to "level the playing field." For Eights, justice has little to do with abstract principles. Eights see themselves as protectors of others, and when they are healthy, they actually are. Eights are more likely to seek justice for "their people"–their family, friends, co-workers, ethnic group, and so forth. It is usually expressed in a concern that those in their care (or under their power and authority) be treated fairly. The cowboy marshal protecting the town against criminals and the union chief negotiating a just wage for the rank and file are examples of this more restricted concern for justice. With Eights, the sense of justice usually involves addressing an imbalance of power. This is quite different from the One who seeks to make sure that people are appropriately rewarded for good actions and punished for bad ones.
    Of course, in their unhealthy manifestations, both types can be extremely unjust. Ones will still believe that they are being fair–the punishments they are meting out are for the good of the person being punished, or at the very least, for the good of society. Ones feel they need to rationalize their punitive activities. Eights do not. For unhealthy Eights, administering justice is simply meting out vengeance. ("You hurt me or my people, and I'll destroy you." "He ripped me off. Now he has to pay.") Needless to say, others may question the "justice" in either of these types' unhealthy behavior.
    The confusion between Eights and Ones probably also stems from the fact that some Ones may misidentify themselves as Eights since they would like to have the authority and influence of Eights. They may also recognize that they have aggressive impulses and misidentify themselves as an "aggressive type," although they are really compliant to their ideals; the Eight is the true aggressive type par excellence. On the other hand, Eights almost never misidentify themselves as Ones, viewing Ones as lily-livered and bloodless–moral only because they are too weak to be strong. Although Eights themselves are unlikely to think they are Ones, other people sometimes misidentify Eights as Ones because they see them as reformers. But clearly, many natural leaders, including Eights, lead reforms when they are needed. Contrasting Ones such as Pope John Paul II, Ralph Nader, and Hilary Clinton with Eights such as Lee Iococca, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Barbara Walters gives a vivid sense of their differences.



  2. #2
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Two

    It is not difficult to see how Twos and Eights can be confused, although there is a world of difference between them. Some average Twos realize that they are forceful and dominating, two of the significant traits of Eights. A particularly aggressive Two may find himself or herself in a work-related role that requires leadership and discipline. For these and other reasons, it is possible for some Twos to misidentify themselves as Eights. This is especially true for male Twos, who, for cultural reasons, may prefer to emphasize these traits. (The difference even on these points, however, is that average Twos do not dominate others and their environment to extend their personal power. Twos do indeed dominate others, although indirectly: they may be overbearing and controlling, although always under the guise of being concerned for others. When Eights attempt to dominate, they make it clear that they are in a power struggle with the other.) Twos and Eights are nevertheless similar in the deep feelings and passion they bring to their relationships, although the expression of their feelings and the effects they have on others are quite different.
    It is worth noting that both types struggle with underlying feelings of rejection, although they cope with these feelings in different ways. These feelings probably predispose both types to have stormy relationships and, should conflicts occur, to express their intense passions in interpersonal conflicts (Eights) or in covert neediness and manipulation (Twos).
    The probable source of the confusion is that both types have strong wills and egos and a tendency to dominate others. Eights are openly aggressive, forceful, and egocentric, but are very direct in their communication. When Eights are not happy about something, they have no difficulty letting the other person know that they are angry or disappointed. Twos can also be aggressive, forceful, self-satisfied, ego centric, and so forth, although covertly, under an increasingly thin veneer of love. Twos have great difficulty communicating their anger openly, even though they may be very upset with someone. Thus, they use indirect approaches, trying to hint at, or failing that, to manipulate others into meeting their needs. By contrast, less healthy Eights intimidate people openly and when they are frustrated, they push harder to get what they want, possibly using direct threats. When Twos are frustrated, they try to make others feel guilty, especially by dramatizing the suffering they feel. Of course, as Twos become more overwhelmed by stress, they increasingly resemble Eights since Eight is the Two's Direction of Disintegration. Contrasting Twos such as Mother Teresa and Barbara Bush with Eights such as Indira Gandhi and former Governor of Texas, Ann Richards will yield more insight into these two types.

  3. #3
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Three

    Threes and Eights are both assertive (PT, 433-36), although the confusion between them centers on the competition found in average Threes and a similar competitiveness in average Eights.
    In general terms, both Eights and Threes are ambitious and competitive: both types want to rise above others. The difference is that average Eights are self-assertive and want others to give them their way immediately so they do not have to waste time and energy fighting with people–not that they are afraid to do so. Eights compete for material and sexual dominance, less over purely social or status issues. For instance, Eights usually do not spend a lot of time comparing themselves with others, and certainly never to the degree that Threes do. For the same reason that Threes confuse themselves with Sevens and Fives (because they are looking for a flattering identity), it is far more likely that Threes identify themselves as Eights rather than vice versa.
    Despite some superficial similarities, the differences are profound: Eights are leaders, deal makers, and power brokers who want to make the world conform to their personal vision. They want to have a large impact, to build and accomplish great things, possibly something that will live as a testament to the greatness of their audacity and will. Strong and implacable, they can be ruthless when something or someone gets in their way. They have large egos, and achieving some form of glory is important to them. Money is both a form of power and a means to amass more of it. Achieving personal power is the dominating drive in Eights, and there is nothing ambiguous, much less furtive or duplicitous, about them.
    By contrast, power is not the key motive of Threes; achieving success and prestige and basking in the admiring attention of others is. (By contrast, Eights do not care about popularity; they do not care about the goodwill of others, so long as they get their way.) If Eights are natural leaders, Threes are natural managers and technicians. If Eights do not fear failure as such, Threes fear failure deeply because they see it as a personal humiliation, a potential occasion for being rejected, their deepest fear. By contrast, Eights see failure as an opportunity to learn something and come back stronger. If Eights are too busy achieving their purposes to worry about public opinion, Threes live and die on the opinions of others and desperately want to be in demand socially. If average Eights are combative and intimidating and can "take the heat", despite a certain bravado, average Threes will back down or be driven to deviousness: they cannot take pressure for long or exposure for a moment. In short, even average Eights are the "genuine article," whereas average Threes are an imitation of it. Contrast Eights such as Telly Savalas and John Wayne with Threes such as Sylvester Stallone and Burt Reynolds.
    Phoenix, Aßbiscuits, Primequis and 4 others thanked this post.

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  5. #4
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Four

    At first, it would seem extremely unlikely that Fours and Eights would be mistyped for one another, but it does occasionally occur. More often, Eights mistake themselves for Fours because they see themselves as passionate and intense feelings, and this is usually true. Similarly Eights may well recall childhood hurts and identify with the Fours' sense of alienation or loneliness. But Eights cope with these feelings in radically different ways than Fours do. Eights learn to toughen themselves up and to "get over it" so that they can do what they need to do to maintain their independence and personal authority. Fours find it difficult to let go of their childhood wounds and do not want to "get over it." Fours do not necessarily want to be dependent on anyone, but they are willing to rely on others if it gives them the time and resources to work out their feelings or to develop their creativity.
    Eights do feel vulnerable inside, but as much as possible, they steel themselves against any feelings of insecurity and weakness in themselves. Eights tend to see such feelings as self-indulgent luxuries for people who have no serious responsibilities. Fours show their vulnerability, but can be much tougher and controlling than they generally realize. In fact, Fours are quite resilient and can endure emotional difficulties and losses that would cause most other types to collapse. In a strange way, Eights are like Fours turned inside-out. Contrast Fours like Roy Orbison and Johnny Depp with Eights like Frank Sinatra and Sean Penn.
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  6. #5
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Five

    These two types are not often mistyped, but share similar attitudes. Eights and Fives both see themselves as outsiders and both feel rejected easily. Both are highly independent, and willing to go to battle with anyone who threatens their independence. Both believe in direct communication, can be aggressive, and tend to protect their vulnerability.
    Eights sometimes see themselves as Fives because they go to Five in stress, and therefore recall times when they have withdrawn from others to strategize and think about their future courses of action. Nonetheless, Eights more often deal with problems head on, and can be highly assertive in going after what they want. Fives, by contrast, tend to retreat from others and to cut off from many of their needs in order to avoid risking dependencies.
    Eights are highly instinctual and very related to their bodies: they are people of practical action, pragmatism, and sensuality, as a result. Fives tend to stay in their heads more, and often have an ambivalent relationship with their bodies. Staying grounded and practical can be a problem for Fives–it is almost never one for Eights. Compare James Joyce (a Five) with Ernest Hemingway (an Eight).
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  7. #6
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Six

    Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive, and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.
    As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.
    The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.
    Both types at this Level can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally. On the other hand, average Eights are more rational: they take the odds of success into account at every move. If and when they finally do become violent, however, Eights are more dangerous than Sixes because they are more ruthless, and the momentum of their inflated egos makes them feel that they can and must press onward until their enemies are utterly destroyed. Eights eventually become megalomaniacs (and may be destroyed after they have destroyed others). By contrast, unhealthy Sixes eventually become self-defeating (and may be destroyed by their own fear). Compare G. Gordon Liddy and Mike Tyson (Sixes) with Henry Kissinger and Muhammad Ali (Eights) to understand more about the similarities and differences between these types.
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  8. #7
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Seven

    Sevens and Eights are both aggressive types (PT, 433-36) and can resemble each other in certain respects. Both are powerful personalities who are able to go after what they want in life, but what they want, and how they attempt to get it, are different.
    Sevens are primarily interested in variety–they want to sample as many different experiences as possible and become practical in as much as their practicality gives them the means to pursue the experiences they want to try.
    Eights, by contrast, are more interested in intensity–they care less about variety than about having intense experiences that they enjoy. Eights are also interested in power, both as a way to maintain their independence and as a way of asserting their dominance in the environment. Sevens are not particularly interested in having power, seeing the work necessary to maintain it as possibly infringing on their freedom.
    Eights are an Instinctive type, and as such, make decisions from their "gut" instincts. They prefer dealing with practical matters, and although emotionally volatile at times, generally remain grounded and down to earth. Sevens are Thinking types, and can have brilliant, quick minds. At the same time, Sevens can get ahead of themselves with their plans, schemes, and interests: they can have trouble staying grounded and on track with their projects. Sevens see themselves as idealistic optimists, while Eights see themselves as hard-nosed realists. Compare Sevens Mike Myers and Goldie Hawn with Eights Danny DeVito and Roseanne Barr.
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  9. #8
    Type 8

    • Type Eight-Type Nine

    Eights with a Nine-wing can sometimes be mistaken for Nines with an Eight-wing, although this is not a common mistype. Eights are openly assertive and do not mind getting into conflicts to make their point. In fact, Eights often like to get into conflicts and debates, finding them energizing and a sign that the other person really cares about the issue. Nines dislike contention of any kind and if possible, would rather agree with the other to keep the peace. As they deteriorate down the Levels, Eights become angrier, more aggressive, and domineering: Nines become more passive, disengaged and depressive. Compare Nines Geena Davis and Walt Disney with Eights Susan Sarandon and John Huston.

    [Source
    ]

    That's it for Type Eight.
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  10. #9

    @ Grey

    Thank you, this has really been an eye opener for me and your posts have answered a lot of the questions I had.

  11. #10

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    • Type Eight-Type One

    Both Ones and Eights are in the Instinctive Triad, both have strong wills, both are action-oriented, and both have strong notions about how to do things. However, Ones try to convince others to do the right thing (as they see it) from the standpoint of a moral imperative–because it is the right thing to do. They try to logically convince the other of the soundness of their views, but become irritated and less logical when others resists their reasoning. Eights, on the other hand, rely on their own self-confidence, and attempt to sway others by their gutsy convictions and sheer personal charisma. ("I don't know if it's the right way, but it's my way.") Ones try to convert those who resist them: Eights try to power through them.
    Oh thank you so much for this clarification! I did the Enneagram profiling the first time, I was classified as a one. While I AM idealistic, this whole imposing a moral code on other people thing just didn't match me at all. I re-did the test and got an 8. That's much more who I am. I thought still I was screwing up something to get differing results (MBTI I always get INTJ!)... now I understand why the results kept shifting - there's this nuance that's hard to capture in a radio button answer! :)
    Scorch97 thanked this post.


     
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