5w4 INFP?

5w4 INFP?

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  • 1 Post By hannahleigh
  • 1 Post By IntrovertHero

This is a discussion on 5w4 INFP? within the What's my Enneagram type? forums, part of the Enneagram Personality Theory Forum category; Hi there! I am fairly new to the enneagram and I am having some real struggles with typing myself. I've ...

  1. #1

    5w4 INFP?

    Hi there! I am fairly new to the enneagram and I am having some real struggles with typing myself. I've known from the first time I read about it that I am either a 5w4 or a 4w5. I am a very solid INFP, if that helps anything. Here are my thoughts currently:
    Looking at myself, I display a whole lot of the characteristics of a 4 outwardly. I am artsy and individualistic. However, I really struggle with the "emotional" aspect of a 4. I am not an emotional person, but I do feel deeply. I am not dramatic and I certainly do not make feelings based on emotion. Until taking the enneagram, I had often described myself as someone who feels deeply, but suppresses my emotions and has to think them through. I am minimalistic as well, which 4's don't tend to be. However, I don't think I come off as "aloof" as 5's often do. Like a 4, I am incredibly introspective, eloquent with words, and always seeking the deeper meaning of myself and life.

    I had somewhat settled on being a 4w5, but still was unsure enough to take the RHETI, which typed me as scoring a 25 for 5 and 17 for 4. So now, I am all kinds of baffled.

    Does anyone have any insight?
    IntrovertHero thanked this post.

  2. #2

    I went throught the same questioning myself,
    I first thought i was an INTP because i'am very skeptical, and do not show emotions. I also considered myself first as a 5w4 because of being very withdrawn and tend to analyse alot of subjects in deep.

    Here is how i figured out that i'am actually a 4w5 type. Sorry it is a bit long, but i tried to have the more complete answer possible because i struggled myself alot with it.

    About 4 vs 5


    Well first of all i studied cognitive functions in deep and found that Fi is really what i was using, the reason is that i spend alot of time understanding the world, in order to know where i belong in it rather than for the sake of pure knowledge, i care alot to be coherent with myself in each decision i make, to the degree that i tend to over analyse everything but not for being knowledgable but for the sake of knowing what my opinion is about the subject and how i relate to it.
    I say that because being INFP there is a high chance to also be E4 rather than E5 not saying it is impossible to be E5 but very unlikely, this because the mechanice behind Fi are very similar to those behind E4. It is about understanding the self and what is relevant to the self. Ti and E5 is rather understanding how things works and what is objectively true. If when you analyse a subject you always try to see how it relates to you, to your life, experience,... you are most probably E4, if when you analyse your main puropose is to gather data even if the subject has nothing to do with yourself you most probably be E5. Again you can do both but i think with E4 there is always the need to understand how the subject relate to yourself in some way.
    This to say that since you say you are an INFP and i have no reason to doubt that, there is a very high probablity for you to be E4 with a 5 wing than the other way around.

    Another thing that made me realise i was E4 are the passions of each type. I think this is a tricky one because no one would recognise easily their passion, since it is something very painfull to admit, even to ourselves.
    E4 feels like they are alien, they feel that they dont belong because they are not good enough to belong in the first place and never will. This leads to alot of shame and self hatred, even if it is not always counscious, it is always here somewhere. This make us always compare ourselves to others and be very aware of how we are percieved, aware of our image.
    In the other hand E5 feel that they are not knowledgable enough, they think that this lack of knowledge will make them fail in life, there is a big unsafety about it, so they will try to understand as much as they can, they will not care about other people's opinion on how they are percieved as long as they know that their are objectively right on a subject, what they fear is not shame, but being incompetent.
    This lead to the 2 passions which respectly are Envy and Avarice. Envy is the 4 that unable to deal with so much self-hatred that they will start to feel it toward people that have the quality they think themselves lack. Belittling other's uniqueness is a way to feel less random or at least it is how an unhealthy person will feel. Avarice in the other hand do not care about other people's quality, it just care about the person's need, they will always feel that they need more time, more informations and they are afraid to give it away because that will lead them to a disadvantage, which ultimately will lead to their loss, at least that what an unhealthy person will think.

    Hence we can see why E5 is less people related. They really don't care about what people think, while when 4 will tend to not let it show,but deeply they care.

    About 4 wing vs 5 wing


    Here it is my understanding after comparing wings with core type, i cannot guarantee that it is 100% that way, however it is how it is for me and how i understood that i was 4w5 rather than 5w4.

    What i have explained above is the core of each type. However as i said it is a very painful truth for each. So they will try to avoid it. Avoiding the feeling of envy related to shame for 4 and of avarice related to being afraid of incompetence for 5. So they will unconsciously try to embody traits that will deviate from their passion to relieve the stress related to it. Here E4 will think that other people are too unique, too amazing and that he is too random, he will never achieve to be recognised for his uniqueness. There is 2 way to cope with it, both have to do with cutting their emotion, one will be to focus on their self image while working hard to show an image of sucess in order to be aknowledged as special it is the 4w3. The other way is to cut from the emotions and retreat, gather as much informatons as possible in order to be as knowledgable as possible. After all who is more unique than the all knowing hermit? Einstein could have the more fanciful haircut, no one will dare not aknowledge him as someone unique and amazing, who will not aknowledge him as a genious? Who will dare to juge him for being different? He is more clever than everyone and everyone knows that. Also to gather knowledge is a way to make sure no one would be able to ever control you and put you in a position where you won't be able anymore to express your authenticity.

    You get the trick here? E4 will so much want to have the qualities of E5 that they will start to adapt their passions, however it will never be as strong as their real one. Here avarice is just there in order to serve the purpose of E4 which is being authentic. If they are too unhealthy for too long their wing might become stronger and stronger as they will need more and more to cut from their emotions and retreat hoping that one day they will be knowledgable enough to go out and be able to be recognized for their uniqueness. This can lead them to be fooled in believing they are E5, and the people around them too might believe so, except people knowing them very well on a personal level.

    I dont really know how this work for 5w4 but i guess it will be the opposite. They will think so much of being unable gain as much knowledge as needed to be omniscient that they will compensate by relating more to their feeling of being unique. After all they are very unique. This will relieve the original pain of not feeling knowledgable and competent. However they might more and more relate to their uniqueness, how they are isolate and feel defective, their dark side. That they might relate more to 4 than they original 5.

    I guess the question to ask yourself to know if you are 4w5 or 5w4 would be:

    Are you really not in touch with your emotions or just hiding them because they are too painfull to openly express?

    How where you orginally when you were a kid? Dreamer or rather "nerdy"?

    How do you relate to people, do you really care about the impression you are leaving, even if you refuse to aknowledge it or do you really find it hard to relate to them and what they feel even if you try?

    4w5 will not show emotions in public because of shame, they will keep up to themselves an look cold on the surface, however once alone or with close people, they will not hesitate to over feel. They will get dramatic, will rethink again and again about what have hurt them. They have alot more resentment than 5 type. They have more complexe personalities but it is hidden and they appear cold at first sight.
    When young they were dreamers and idealist not very drawn to logic, until later when they realised that logic and knowledge is important and started to get into analysing rather than just feeling. They somehow always feel shame for not being clever enough.

    5w4 will look more emotional than they really are. They can speak in a poetic way, use metaphores, arts but this is more due to their lack of ability to normally make themselves understood, they are trying to adapt to "normal" people who will not naturally understand their cold scientific factual way of thinking. However they will less likely than 4 take things personally, hold grudges, dramatise a situation. They may sometimes outwardly seems to, but it would be more a way to make understand people that they want to be alone when themselves they will just feel empty inside. They might look darker at first sight, but they have lighter personalities.
    They realised how much they where unique later in life and then wanted to adapt to this in order to make them more understood.

    To make it short here, if it happen for you to easily get hurt by criticism or other people's behavior and then tend to rethink about the situation again just in order to re-feel the bad emotions and tend to intensify it just to feel it, because even if you hate it, the emotion is making you feel more alive, you are most probably a 4. Even if you show nothing outside and deatch from your emotion while the event itself is happening.
    A 5 will rather try to understand their emotion rather than feel them, they don't really care about the feeling itself related to the emotion, but rather the meaning behind it.

  3. #3

    This is incredibly helpful! Thank you so much for this response! I think that I often try to make myself feel emotion because I think that's what I "should" do, even though I don't want to feel. I have always said that I view emotions like a check engine light on a car, because it means there is something deeper happening. It's funny reading your post because I didn't realize that people don't try to understand the meaning behind the emotion. I also am thinking about an instance a few weeks ago when I realized that the thing I hate the most in life is being in a situation where I feel that that I'm stupid or incompetent, because those are two feelings that I actually can feel, and I hate it. I wrote an entire blog about it.

    I do, however, see where an INFP who is a 5 is very rare. I find it intriguing that in my INFP, I am 90-100% on the letters IN and P, but only about 50-60% on the F.

    Lots to ponder for sure. It's actually driving me a little insane that I cannot figure out which one I am.


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