INTP or INTJ? Cognitive function conflict? - Page 2

INTP or INTJ? Cognitive function conflict?

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This is a discussion on INTP or INTJ? Cognitive function conflict? within the What's my personality type? forums, part of the Personality Cafe category; Originally Posted by Saturniid -- To describe myself, I'm more often than not an extremely quiet person. To be frank, ...

  1. #11
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturniid View Post

    • -- To describe myself, I'm more often than not an extremely quiet person. To be frank, people could easily classify me as asocial in this instance. I've been this way since I was a child, and was even held back in school due to blatant disinterest in communication with other people. In fact, people would often ask me if I could talk at all (or if I was mute). I can say that I'm not without manners socially, but I don't really have anything decent when it comes to tact due to obliviousness, and either way, my lack of personal interaction stifles this anyway. Another contributor is that I tend to get a bit nervous while talking due to the fact that my sentences are very broken and full of pauses. Refer to the video to see what I mean. I have to think out my sentences well before I speak them, otherwise they wind up like what you'll see, and even then, sometimes I still stutter or fumble. Talking is one of my least favorite things to do because of this.


    • -- On the playground at school, I was far, far more interested in finding and observing how insects behaved and worked, how plants functioned and grew (when, where, why, what type, etc, etc.), and how many types of rocks I could spot in the playground gravel. I had a very hard time making friends either way due to the fact that I was the kind of kid that would pick up wasps, spiders and snakes in the classroom before the teacher could kill them because I knew what specific kind of creature it was, and whether or not it, or its behavior was actually threatening, sheerly because I was so hellbent on understanding what it was at some point. I was always fascinated by the things people typically feared.


    • -- Admittedly, I have some theories in my mind that aren't generally what people deem 'normal'. For instance, I'm utterly amazed by the capabilities of a venus Flytrap, Mimosa, and so on, so forth, in the sense that without any nervous system structure, and without muscular structure at all, they can recognise when something has come into contact with their snares or leaves, reacting with either offensive or defensive motion based on this. This has lead me to believe that scientists have quite honestly not bothered to dig deep enough beyond the scope of function in order to examine that there could quite possibly be other forms of 'conscience' and 'sentience', and just the mutter of 'It's just a plant' irks me like no tomorrow.

      I have other theories in mind too, mainly pertaining to blood types, Rhesus factor, and autoimmune disorders.

      Of course, most people tend to find the above thoughts rather absurd, so I keep them tucked out of sight until I see someone that brings up something vaguely similar to it, and then I'm off like a train with discussion of the possibilities.



    • -- I'm obsessed with taking things apart and learning what makes them work. It's the basis of understanding these things that I find satisfying. Whether it's taking apart an entire PC and observing all the circuits, coils, cards and chips, or exploring the external dynamics that make something otherwise simplistic in construction function, such as a glider, hot air balloon or parachute, understanding what makes it work is a great deal to me. I guess that it could be explained as a desire to perceive the unperceivable, clarify the intangible, and all in all, understand what we do not.


    • -- Over all, I suppose I tend to contradict myself a bit in this regard, but I favor organization externally (my files, binders, and many other things are extremely organized), while as long as I can remember, I've had instances where I pick up random objects--little trinkets and nick-naks that remind me of something, so I won't forget it. I suppose there's a slight nostalgic air in this, and often it can clutter my space (the top of my computer desk is one such area).


    • -- I am NOT a people person. Never have been, and probably never will be, mainly for many of the reasons I've already given, but another thing is that while I want others to be happy, I don't always know how to go about making that a reality. I get paranoid if I have to act as someone's security blanket unless I trust them. Regardless of this paranoia, I have a tendency to be a bit selfless if someone else is in need, and I will almost always put the needs of others before my own. Sadly, my capabilities to avoid making others feel awkward or weirded out by my behavior meanwhile can make this more than a little difficult.


    On a second read through I'm now seeing the Se as well. Your function stack looks to me to be Ti-Se-Ni-Fe I bolded parts that seemed especially enlightening. You are definitely a Ti dominant type with a Fe polr. Problem is, you have introverted intuition not extroverted. You are also clearly very hands on with your learning. Which points to Se. Now... the other option Ni-Fe-Ti-Se, that puts Ti and Se too far down the stack to really fit. An INFJ would have less problem accessing Fe to support Ni. They might be the morbidly curious sort as well, but in a more abstract way.
    Saturniid thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturniid View Post
    • -- To describe myself, I'm more often than not an extremely quiet person. To be frank, people could easily classify me as asocial in this instance. I've been this way since I was a child, and was even held back in school due to blatant disinterest in communication with other people. In fact, people would often ask me if I could talk at all (or if I was mute). I can say that I'm not without manners socially, but I don't really have anything decent when it comes to tact due to obliviousness, and either way, my lack of personal interaction stifles this anyway. Another contributor is that I tend to get a bit nervous while talking due to the fact that my sentences are very broken and full of pauses. Refer to the video to see what I mean. I have to think out my sentences well before I speak them, otherwise they wind up like what you'll see, and even then, sometimes I still stutter or fumble. Talking is one of my least favorite things to do because of this.


    • -- On the playground at school, I was far, far more interested in finding and observing how insects behaved and worked, how plants functioned and grew (when, where, why, what type, etc, etc.), and how many types of rocks I could spot in the playground gravel. I had a very hard time making friends either way due to the fact that I was the kind of kid that would pick up wasps, spiders and snakes in the classroom before the teacher could kill them because I knew what specific kind of creature it was, and whether or not it, or its behavior was actually threatening, sheerly because I was so hellbent on understanding what it was at some point. I was always fascinated by the things people typically feared.


    • -- Admittedly, I have some theories in my mind that aren't generally what people deem 'normal'. For instance, I'm utterly amazed by the capabilities of a venus Flytrap, Mimosa, and so on, so forth, in the sense that without any nervous system structure, and without muscular structure at all, they can recognise when something has come into contact with their snares or leaves, reacting with either offensive or defensive motion based on this. This has lead me to believe that scientists have quite honestly not bothered to dig deep enough beyond the scope of function in order to examine that there could quite possibly be other forms of 'conscience' and 'sentience', and just the mutter of 'It's just a plant' irks me like no tomorrow.

      I have other theories in mind too, mainly pertaining to blood types, Rhesus factor, and autoimmune disorders.

      Of course, most people tend to find the above thoughts rather absurd, so I keep them tucked out of sight until I see someone that brings up something vaguely similar to it, and then I'm off like a train with discussion of the possibilities.


    • -- I'm obsessed with taking things apart and learning what makes them work. It's the basis of understanding these things that I find satisfying. Whether it's taking apart an entire PC and observing all the circuits, coils, cards and chips, or exploring the external dynamics that make something otherwise simplistic in construction function, such as a glider, hot air balloon or parachute, understanding what makes it work is a great deal to me. I guess that it could be explained as a desire to perceive the unperceivable, clarify the intangible, and all in all, understand what we do not.


    • -- Over all, I suppose I tend to contradict myself a bit in this regard, but I favor organization externally (my files, binders, and many other things are extremely organized), while as long as I can remember, I've had instances where I pick up random objects--little trinkets and nick-naks that remind me of something, so I won't forget it. I suppose there's a slight nostalgic air in this, and often it can clutter my space (the top of my computer desk is one such area).


    [list]-- I am NOT a people person. Never have been, and probably never will be, mainly for many of the reasons I've already given, but another thing is that while I want others to be happy, I don't always know how to go about making that a reality. I get paranoid if I have to act as someone's security blanket unless I trust them. Regardless of this paranoia, I have a tendency to be a bit selfless if someone else is in need, and I will almost always put the needs of others before my own. Sadly, my capabilities to avoid making others feel awkward or weirded out by my behavior meanwhile can make this more than a little difficult.[/list]
    Look at the bolded parts: they make you a textbook example of a Ti-dom. (The last bolded part shows inferior Fe poking through.) The only question is between Se-Ni and Ne-Si.

    Though I can see arguments for ISTP - as Elyasis said, I don't think you should rule out INTP without researching well the differences between the two. An INTP may just as well display the attitudes and behaviours you described. If you are ISTP, you must be one with a very developed tertiary.

    Right now my vote goes to INTP over ISTP. As an argument, there's Si (most likely - sometimes a combo of functions may appear as Si) in the orange coloured part. Also, the inclination to make up uncommon scientific theories.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dare View Post
    Seems classic INTP e5. There were a few very INTP (Ti + Ne) statements and a few things that were very not INTJ (expressing Fe).

    I'm an INTJ 5w4 sx/sp, so if you want to compare notes, let me know.
    Yes, certainly. I'd be quite curious to know some of the differences. If you don't mind my asking, I have a few questions.

    1- What might you think an INTJ 5w4 would do differently in the instances that you couldn't relate to? I'm assuming that your statement might play a lot on Fi versus Fe regarding the bit in parentheses that follows.

    2- If it's okay, then might I ask which lines specifically stood out as Ti+Ne to you?

    3- Lastly, is there anything that you could spot that might end up confusing others into thinking these are INTJ mannerisms instead of INTP that I display?

    Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Elyasis View Post

    On a second read through I'm now seeing the Se as well. Your function stack looks to me to be Ti-Se-Ni-Fe I bolded parts that seemed especially enlightening. You are definitely a Ti dominant type with a Fe polr. Problem is, you have introverted intuition not extroverted. You are also clearly very hands on with your learning. Which points to Se. Now... the other option Ni-Fe-Ti-Se, that puts Ti and Se too far down the stack to really fit. An INFJ would have less problem accessing Fe to support Ni. They might be the morbidly curious sort as well, but in a more abstract way.
    This is certainly very interesting. It seems so far, you're the first to note the Se, and though I won't immediately strike out the possibility of ISTP as an option, I do think that it would be reasonable to give the following input:

    For what I'm assuming you made note of in some sense of Se, which would perhaps be the instances of taking things apart, it's not necessarily that aspect that I enjoy. I do that because it's more or less essential to the process of understanding how things work. I have to dissect something in order to gather some understanding of their function, and it's not so much a physical thing for me, so much as a mental thing. It's a curiosity factor driven by "What does this do? What if this here causes this?", and it ends up converting into the thought process of "What if this piece here is what makes that function? How does it function? How do these circuits do such complex things?". It's the same aspect of fascination at realizing something we generally see so simply is honestly incredibly complex, thus being taken for granted, such as how a CD or a hard-drive platter is just a flat, circular surface, but beyond that, there's tons and tons of information stored in what's essentially artificial memory--something that's branched out and reached an enormous potential for all kinds of ideas.

    Another example is the realization of how a camera can capture or record sound, motion, color, so on and so forth, and essentially capture a fragment of time that we experienced as a reality, and can freeze that in a frame on a piece of film, or play it back to us at any point in a future tense. These capabilities are something I genuinely find incredible. There's so much to understand behind the construct--not of the mechanism, but what it captures, and how.

    I hope that clears some of the thought process up a little bit. :) Thank you for your input.







    Hmm. I find it rather fascinating that from what I notice, the only function that people have not mentioned so far seems to be Fi. I suppose that rules out anything with Fi in it, at the very least. Haha.


    Quote Originally Posted by iNdependent View Post
    Look at the bolded parts: they make you a textbook example of a Ti-dom. (The last bolded part shows inferior Fe poking through.) The only question is between Se-Ni and Ne-Si.

    Though I can see arguments for ISTP - as Elyasis said, I don't think you should rule out INTP without researching well the differences between the two. An INTP may just as well display the attitudes and behaviours you described. If you are ISTP, you must be one with a very developed tertiary.

    Right now my vote goes to INTP over ISTP. As an argument, there's Si (most likely - sometimes a combo of functions may appear as Si) in the orange coloured part. Also, the inclination to make up uncommon scientific theories.

    Yes, thank you for bringing this up. This is an instance that I was curious about, as while I'm still studying functions, I am quite aware of the tendency in Si to reflect a sort of nostalgia. I find your remark fairly relevant to the post I'd created pertaining to the experiment before I made this thread as a follow up, simply due to the fact that someone noted in the video, I showed very heavy signs of Ti + Si, especially when answering the question of how I react when someone tells me I'm wrong about something (I think it was one of the last questions if I remember correctly). This is what they said about my response in that question:

    "Here, you respond with the most extreme and hardcore Ti-Si response I have ever witnessed - you say, basically, that if someone tells you you are incorrect - you would require the information that prompted their response (S, but, really it's just human) and then you go on to say you practically are the arbiter of subjective truths and question the validity of their sources (Ti, clarity, what source? who? credibility? clearing the mud etc) - your main goal here, is to seek to discredit the opponents position.

    How do you do this - by the way - is right here, verbatim:

    "if I don't find it credbile, then we're not going anywhere, I will just counter it with the research I've found credible in my studies"

    This is.. Ti-Si to the max - you counter peoples positions by referring to already known information - you don't seek to accept or understand their position and come to an agreement of some sort (F) instead you come straight at it with your own subjective truths (Ti) and your research and knowledge you have accumulated from the past (Si).
    You don't go looking for new information to combat them with, either, which is Ne/Se - gathering processes - instead you refer to already known information (Si/Ni, I just know it's Si here for reasons I've already outlined)."
    So yeah, so far, unless more prominent evidence of Se can be pointed out in some instance, If you agree with the above being a combo of Ti and Si, I think Si is definitely the function I far more naturally rely on.



    It seems like the conclusions are slowly narrowing in. All of these perspectives are interesting to witness! I appreciate the time people are taking to read this. Thanks. :)
    Last edited by Saturniid; 04-26-2018 at 12:06 PM.

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  5. #14

    @brightflashes - Since you commented on the older thread, perhaps you'd be interested in reading the follow-up and gathering a conclusion from this?


     
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