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Am I an ISFJ or INFJ?

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This is a discussion on Am I an ISFJ or INFJ? within the What's my personality type? forums, part of the Personality Cafe category; Originally Posted by marblecloud95 Woah, detecting high levels of hyperactivity, you on meds? I think she's just excited that she's ...

  1. #21

    Quote Originally Posted by marblecloud95 View Post
    Woah, detecting high levels of hyperactivity, you on meds?
    I think she's just excited that she's figuring this stuff out.

  2. #22

    Quote Originally Posted by marblecloud95 View Post
    Woah, detecting high levels of hyperactivity, you on meds?
    I have an excitement for learning and, really, I'm not being hyperactive. I like to discuss but I don't like to come off as being mundane. If you knew me at all, you'd know it's usually fairly difficult to get me truly hyperactive.

  3. #23

    Quote Originally Posted by KalimofDaybreak View Post
    Food honestly depends on the person. I can see your sister being especially sensitive because of Si, but that's a bit of a far cry and really isn't that important either way. I will say that trying new experiences vs. her keeping the same diet is a difference between your Se and her Si. Se seeks out new experiences, Si stabilizes experience.
    I've also been excited about moving houses. My sister dreaded it, said she hated having to adapt to a new home. As I've gotten older, this has diminished a touch. Probably because, ya know, now that I'm an adult I actually have to deal with the nasty realities/details of moving that I didn't have to when I was little.

    Quote Originally Posted by KalimofDaybreak View Post
    I can't tell you definitively if you're an INFJ or not, but at the very least, it's pretty clear to me that you prefer intuition and feeling (most likely in that order), and I have no reason to doubt your introversion. As for the last letter, I've pretty much decided that it is irrelevant. It's not in Jung's original typology and it seems to me that it's really only there because Myers' mom had noticed it before Myers actually created the MBTI system. It seems a lot more behaviorist and subject to environment than Jung's theories were, and modern MBTI technicians don't do a great job actually explaining what the letter is supposed to represent.
    Ah, you're discussing Judging and Perceiving, yes? I've always just heard those two described in looser, sometimes stereotypical terms. "Perceivers are hippies, Judgers are uptight scrunches." Blah blah blah...

    By the way, do you have any book recommendations? I have one, this one and it helped understand the functions a bit more clearly. Not sure how reliable some of its "testing" strategies are. But it did help me determine that I was Extroverted Feeling and most likely an Intuitive, but that wasn't for sure obviously.


    Quote Originally Posted by KalimofDaybreak View Post
    Yep, that's a fairly classic sensation/intuition conflict. My mother is an ISFJ; I've had similar talks very often.
    Could my conflict between Ni and Si possibly be because I had so many Si-doms in my life? I probably talk about experiences and past memories more than the average INFJ because that's what my family talked about, so I had to blend in with them. I also had a close friend for a long time that loved talking about her family experiences, she was likely an ESFJ. I wanted to "blend in" with her as well so I would talk about my past experiences to entertain her further, though this wasn't always my favorite topic. I enjoyed listening to hers more than I did telling my own. Same with my family.

    Quote Originally Posted by KalimofDaybreak View Post
    Another thing I relate to. xNFJs have a (somewhat annoying) tendency to try and "fix" people. It's a combination of Ni and F I think--we see how their behaviors will ultimately impact them in negative ways, so we try to fix that before it happens. It can make us lose sight of what's right in front of us, which is generally why xSFJs are a lot better at being empathetic. They don't perceive those things, they just focus on fixing the problem right now.
    Yeah. xSFJ's are probably better at accepting people for who they are than xNFJ's are. I'll admit, I've been called out on trying to change people's behaviors both to meet my ideals for them and for what I think would be best for them. I know when I do it too.
    I have a horrible curse of being way too idealistic with relationships. I have that "dreamy" way of interpreting how people should be and get a reality check when they're not what I was expecting. I'll likely be forever single because of this until I can learn to get out of my head some. :)

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  5. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Ah, you're discussing Judging and Perceiving, yes? I've always just heard those two described in looser, sometimes stereotypical terms. "Perceivers are hippies, Judgers are uptight scrunches." Blah blah blah...
    Yeah, it gets really annoying. Especially since my code is technically INFJ but I almost always score as INFP because my dominant function is perception. But yeah, this is why people think that MBTI is just a zodiac; it gets oversimplified and after that it's meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    By the way, do you have any book recommendations? I have one, this one and it helped understand the functions a bit more clearly. Not sure how reliable some of its "testing" strategies are. But it did help me determine that I was Extroverted Feeling and most likely an Intuitive, but that wasn't for sure obviously.
    Psychological Types by C. G. Jung (duh). At most bookstores, it's going to cost you about $20, but half.com usually has it for a good deal. I got mine for $7 (w/ shipping and handling).

    Personality Type: An Owner's Manual by Lenore Thomson. This one is a bit controversial and her model for the functions is a bit strange, but the approach she takes to talking about the functions is enlightening and she has some really good stuff in there about type and just being a good person based off your type.

    Gift Differing: Understanding Personality Type by Isabel Myers. I myself have (shamefully) not read this one yet, but it's rather essential if you are going to do any reading about MBTI.

    There are other writers, too; Marie von Franz, J.H. van der Hoop come to mind (these two immediately followed Jung: von Franz was his protege and van der Hoop was a patient of Jung's if I am not mistaken). These two are also on my reading list. :P

    I've not read the book you linked to, but I will tell you one thing about Nardi. While I appreciate his work and I think it's rather groundbreaking, his view of the functions is that they are just that: function, conscious processes of the mind. He can be insightful, but in the end he is an empiricist and is interested in data he can collect. The Jungian idea of the functions, that they are mindsets or perspectives, not an actual process, conflicts with this, since there is no real way to empirically quantify them. Nardi can be helpful, but don't take his word as gospel.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Could my conflict between Ni and Si possibly be because I had so many Si-doms in my life? I probably talk about experiences and past memories more than the average INFJ because that's what my family talked about, so I had to blend in with them. I also had a close friend for a long time that loved talking about her family experiences, she was likely an ESFJ. I wanted to "blend in" with her as well so I would talk about my past experiences to entertain her further, though this wasn't always my favorite topic. I enjoyed listening to hers more than I did telling my own. Same with my family.
    Any extended contact with a person of any type is going to shape you (especially if you're an Fe-user :P). So yes, I would say most likely. Talking about the past isn't necessarily Si in of itself, but being focused on that instead of the future would be a little more up that alley. (*cough* back in my day *cough*) When I was younger, I was a lot more focused on the past than I am now, partially for life circumstances and partially for the amount of S influence I had (literally, my entire mother's side is sensing except for myself, a cousin, and an uncle).

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Yeah. xSFJ's are probably better at accepting people for who they are than xNFJ's are. I'll admit, I've been called out on trying to change people's behaviors both to meet my ideals for them and for what I think would be best for them. I know when I do it too. I have a horrible curse of being way too idealistic with relationships. I have that "dreamy" way of interpreting how people should be and get a reality check when they're not what I was expecting. I'll likely be forever single because of this until I can learn to get out of my head some. :)
    I know the feeling of being too idealistic. And yes, it's the getting out of the head that's trick with that. Another reason there should be an INxJ support group.

  6. #25

    Give me an example of the kind of abstract concepts you like to talk about. Tell me the core truth of something.

    ETA: I mean... check out this interview / this post.

    David Bowie. Ni-dom. I thought lower Ni, until I watched more interviews.

    The interview quoted in that ... is blah until about 6 minutes in, and then the Ni comes out in full force. Psychopomp is right -- Bowie has been waiting the entire interview to discuss SOMETHING like that. Something pure abstracting and remote and purely conceptual - the internet. The alien invading our lives. The symbol of rebellion and potential. Look how abstracting his language becomes. Look how the interviewer is clearly not understanding a word of it, is totally lost, and tries to bring him back to tangibles. Bowie is having none of it. That's Ni. Pure Ni.

    Being creative is not Ni.
    Daydreaming is not Ni.
    Not being sentimental is not Ni.
    Being intelligent is not Ni.

    Ni is obscure, unattached, weird, symbolic, and impossible to relate. Ni art is Bowie and his Ziggy character. His music videos from the 1970's/80's where the audience thought, "Dude, what the hell does that even MEAN?"

    There is a super low bar for "intuition" on PerC. You can cross it by not being a stick in the mud. But real INFJs are Bowie. And Yoko Ono. And people who are so utterly devoted to subjective impressionism that you catch them in a conversation and it turns into ... that.
    Last edited by angelcat; 01-21-2016 at 09:23 AM.
    Julia Bell and xraydav thanked this post.

  7. #26

    Quote Originally Posted by angelcat View Post
    Give me an example of the kind of abstract concepts you like to talk about. Tell me the core truth of something.

    ETA: I mean... check out this interview / this post.

    David Bowie. Ni-dom. I thought lower Ni, until I watched more interviews.

    The interview quoted in that ... is blah until about 6 minutes in, and then the Ni comes out in full force. Psychopomp is right -- Bowie has been waiting the entire interview to discuss SOMETHING like that. Something pure abstracting and remote and purely conceptual - the internet. The alien invading our lives. The symbol of rebellion and potential. Look how abstracting his language becomes. Look how the interviewer is clearly not understanding a word of it, is totally lost, and tries to bring him back to tangibles. Bowie is having none of it. That's Ni. Pure Ni.

    Being creative is not Ni.
    Daydreaming is not Ni.
    Not being sentimental is not Ni.
    Being intelligent is not Ni.

    Ni is obscure, unattached, weird, symbolic, and impossible to relate. Ni art is Bowie and his Ziggy character. His music videos from the 1970's/80's where the audience thought, "Dude, what the hell does that even MEAN?"

    There is a super low bar for "intuition" on PerC. You can cross it by not being a stick in the mud. But real INFJs are Bowie. And Yoko Ono. And people who are so utterly devoted to subjective impressionism that you catch them in a conversation and it turns into ... that.
    I cannot watch the videos as something really funky is going on with my browser's plug in that makes some videos suddenly crash. But yes, perhaps you are correct. But now I'm left with more frustration. I think some abstractions confused me and I'm getting pissed with the lack of examples of what REAL cognitive functions look like in people and how it presents itself. When reading on perceiving functions it seems the only ones that make sense to me is Se. The rest? No idea. Fe and Fi make sense. Te and Ti was a touch harder for me to grasp at first. But I understand now.

    If I don't get this MBTI crap put to rest for myself I'm going to scream.

  8. #27

    I think Bowie is ENFJ and Yoko Ono is something else. Ive heard INTP. Just because someone is weird and you can't relate doesn't mean theyre Ni dom. ;)

  9. #28

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I'm getting pissed with the lack of examples of what REAL cognitive functions look like in people and how it presents itself. When reading on perceiving functions it seems the only ones that make sense to me is Se. The rest? No idea. Fe and Fi make sense. Te and Ti was a touch harder for me to grasp at first. But I understand now.
    But that's still looking at external behaviors to type, rather than how your brain processes information. Anyone can act like anything at any time for any reason -- it doesn't mean they are this or that type.

    The introverted functions are harder to grasp because they are specific to the person using them -- they are all impressionistic and abstract. So no one can describe Ni or Si to you, because they are both abstract and tied to individual perception. I use Si, but my Si is NOTHING LIKE the Si in my ISFJ friend. Yet, we both still use it. Reality is subverted through our Si, to create sensory impressions rather than Ni symbolic / conceptual impressions.

    Actually, that's a good way to frame it: Si is sensory abstraction and impression, Ni is conceptual abstraction.

    Doesn't help, does it? I'm sorry, I'm abstracting myself at the moment. :P

    The fact that not once in the initial questionnaire you willingly led the conversation into abstraction leads me to think you're not high Ni. But if you wanted to show me some intuitive concept that excites you, I'm willing to keep talking.

    Your daydreaming and enjoyment of thinking about what COULD BE instead of what IS struck me as very Ne. Not necessarily higher Ne, but Ne in general. That's the linchpin of Ne: not seeing what something is, but how it could be more idealized. ISFJs are not beyond this -- it is highly common in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
    I think Bowie is ENFJ and Yoko Ono is something else. Ive heard INTP. Just because someone is weird and you can't relate doesn't mean theyre Ni dom. ;)
    You are right, that does not make them Ni.

    However, their interviews and body of art all have that detachment / wildly concept-driven impressionism to them, which is indeed Ni... and much more common in Ni-doms than in Ni anywhere else in the placement stack. (Lana Del Rey uses Ni as well, but as an ISFP it's less important to her than Se-aesthetics in her work.)

  10. #29

    @angelcat what about Edward Norton?
    Bowie maybe.
    Im still not sold on Yoko Ono

  11. #30

    Quote Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
    @angelcat what about Edward Norton?
    Bowie maybe.
    Im still not sold on Yoko Ono
    Norton does strike me as a Ni-dom. I'm not sure he's Fe, though... might be Te in there. He is certainly insistent on carrying out his vision to its absolute conclusion. James Cameron is another high Ni user, though he might be ENTJ. The fact that he patted Kate Winslet on the back after nearly drowning on TITANIC and then told her to get back to work speaks to high Te... maybe higher than aux. By in large, I've found the NFJs are more stylistically weird than the NTJs. It's the Ni/Ti ruminating.


     
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