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Am I an ISFJ or INFJ?

11K views 158 replies 16 participants last post by  SheWolf 
#1 ·
Okay, I'm sure there are a million of these, but I really need to know if I'm an INFJ or an ISFJ. I see so many aspects of myself in both. My sister and mother are probably the epitomes of ISFJ's, and we are so very different in some ways. I'm going to list some things about me and even how I am the same and different from my mom and sister. I think the differences are subtle, but all in all we have a different way of viewing the world and how we want our lives. When I test, Se and Si usually come very close within one another, it's strange.

1) I'm very prudent. I don't take big risks. BUT I am a lot more inclined to take them than my sister and mother, especially my mother. For example, my sister and I traveling to my horse shows. My mom is VERY concerned about every little detail. "Where are you staying? How much money does gas cost there? Is the hotel any good? What are it's rates? How far are you going to have to travel from home to the motel?" Little minutia that drives me CRAZY. Like seriously, mom, don't worry about it. You can't know every little detail! Now, I'm NOT one to take off without any sort of planning (which tells me I'm not IxFP like I used to think I was.) I will make sure that we have the money, a place to stay, and a reliable way to get there. I DO like to have a plan. Also, in the example of my mother once again, she would always bombard me with questions when I said I was going to a friend's house. "Who's their parents? Where do they live? What are they going to feed you? Is their house nice? What do their parents do for a living? What's you friend like?" UGH. Now, I have vague interest in these things, but not for the same reasons my mother does. I want to know about the person on a deeper level. I might think "Since your mom is a teacher, what does that mean for you, my friend?" rather than the sake of knowing alone. One time I was talking about how my friends' mom wanted to take us just to go get some frozen yogurt at the family owned parlor in the next town over. I began telling my mom about how much fun it was, how funny her mom was, how we laughed, how my french vanilla bean frozen yogurt tasted like a cloud from Heaven. What did she want to know? "What car did her mom drive? What does she look like? Where was the parlor at? What did it look like?" UGH. I don't remember because, ya know, I was too busy enjoying my time with my friend and my ice cream that I didn't notice what route we took to get to place. I might remember what color her car was maybe? So I might respond to her with "Just a little red car." I'm not familiar with car models. On a rare occasion, I might remember it being a Chevy because I saw the logo on her steering wheel or something. My sister doesn't do this, but rather, she wants to know every little detail of the conversations I had with them. Like, for example, I might say "My friend was telling me she wants to become a nurse! Isn't that cool? I think she'd be so good at that." and my sister would agree but then proceed to say, "Where does she want to work as a nurse? Is she going to move away or stay in this area?" to which I respond, "Oh... I don't know. I didn't ask. I assume she's going to move away maybe because she complains about how boring it is here." and my sister just kind of looks at me in bewilderment. I've often got remarks from her along the lines of, "What do you and your friends even talk about?" to which I respond "Uhhh.. I don't know." but in truth we will discuss something weird like our opinions on ghosts... LOL! My friends have to be just as strange as me :tongue:
I can become disinterested when people talk about the little details of their current lives. I'd much rather hear about what you want for your future because I see potential in everyone.

2) I can be somewhat scared about sudden change in my life. Like, right now, if I got a random invite to be whisked away to a lovely college dedicated to equestrians, I would be somewhat hesitant. But not really because it would disrupt my comfortable but oh-so BORING life now, but because I would miss my family dearly. I don't care about leaving my lifestyle behind. In fact, I despise my lifestyle now. But that's a rant for another time. When I was little my sister, myself, and a family very close to us went on an out-of-country vacation. I was SO excited... Until I got there. Then I started missing my mom, dad, and pets A LOT. I cried. I wanted to go back home so I could see them. I couldn't even call them. If I could have done that, I would've been right as rain. (After the first day I was perfectly fine and even kind of forgot about home. Lol!) In fact, I went on many smaller vacations after that and as long as I had my sister with me and could call my mother, I never thought twice about going back home. IN FACT I OFTEN DIDN'T WANT TO. Haha.

3) I've always loved abstract theory. I had the biggest imagination when I was little. Still do. I was disinterested in ANYTHING that was non-fiction or didn't have some sort of fantastical element to it. It was a chore to get me to read stories that were "realistic." The only way was maybe if it had some sort of science or historic element to it. Otherwise, I would complain of being bored through the whole thing. I would daydream ALL the time. It was hard to get me to concentrate unless the subject was something of interest. Even then, I'd ask unusual questions about whatever I was learning and was always a step ahead sometimes. I'd learn something to what I felt was it's full potential and want to move on. That's why I excelled in science but SUCKED in mathematics because that was something that was not only boring but required practicing one concept over and over and that made me want to rip my hair out. I was REALLY good at English. I was home schooled, and my sister said that she barely had to teach me to read (it was her who taught me.) I just magically started doing it with little instruction. Same with learning to write.

4) I'm incredibly drawn to mysticism. Ever since I was a little girl I always wanted a deeper understanding of the world on a spiritual level. I was never happy with things as they are. For example, I had a wild imagination. I was the little girl who collected rocks because I thought there was something special about them. I couldn't tell you what that special was, but I just KNEW it was and if you tell me it's just a rock, like my sister often did, I'm gonna fight you. :) :) :)
(What's funny is I still do this. Sister tells me I can't accept anything at face value. I collect crystals, dream catchers, and objects that have symbolism to me like keys)

5) I'm always thinking forward. I was one of the few children who KNEW what she wanted to be when she grew up: a veterinarian. Guess what? I'm in college studying to get into the veterinary technology program. I was torn between a couple other careers like game design and acting, but I wanted to go with the one that had a higher purpose, was stable, and is something I'm sure I would never ever get "bored" of. I also got lots of people around me saying that they always knew that working with animals was my true calling and I have not diverted my course since. My mind is set, though for awhile I wavered because the others satisfied my need to have art in my life. But the truth is: I suck at art. I can never get what's in my head into real life when it comes to art. At least not the way I want it.

6) I'm a hopeless romantic at heart. While I never voice this outwardly to anyone, I've always had dreams of meeting my "prince charming" and living this ever-so perfect life. When it comes to any sort of relationship, I see through rose-colored lenses. I have high standards for people and am often disappointed when they aren't what I envisioned them to be.

7) My sister has a habit of letting people take advantage of her. She can be somewhat of a doormat. Oh, I can be too, but I can tell when someone is trying to take advantage of me but I go along with them anyway because I don't want conflict. My sister lacks that ability and when I try to tell her what people are doing she doesn't believe me. Ugh. Like one time, at my 15th birthday party, she gave one of her friends some money to hold on to in case my friends and I wanted to play some arcade games at the bowling alley. I tried to warn her that she shouldn't do that, because I just knew she would steal it or something, despite there being no prior evidence to say she would. My sister basically told me whatever. Welp, sure as anything, she never gave my sister back the money and said we spent it. Didn't surprise me at all and I had an "I told you so" moment. What really irritates me is that she's still friends with her. Me? I would've kicked her to the curb for that.

8) I do have an inability to live in the moment, I think. In fact, if I had one wish to go back to the past, it would be to go back to times where I was too worried about what's going on next to enjoy myself. I do this all the time. BUT sometimes I get panicked and overwhelmed with how things are NOW. Like one time I could've swore my instructor was going to fail me on a paper so I was more inclined to just drop the class altogether despite it being a required course. My sister tries to talk sense into me when that happened but I was hellbent on my insight despite not being able to present any evidence that I would be failed on it. I didn't see the big picture that one little paper or even class wasn't going to extremely affect my future. I didn't end up dropping the course and I actually got a B+ on the paper. But it was causing me so much stress that I didn't care.

9) This is a little thing, but I tend to have a habit of not eating anything at all or EATING EVERYTHING IN SIGHT. If I'm really busy I won't even realize how hungry I am but if I'm bored I get really hungry and then I get moody. I have "hanger" issues, meaning I get angry when I'm hungry :laughing: BUT my mom and sister don't do this. Also, when they eat, they stop totally when they're full. I don't. If something tastes good to me I keep eating it despite my body's protests. I hear that Introverted Sensors are very aware of their bodies. Me? I'm either totally unaware of my body or hyper-aware of it. I'm a bit of a hypochondriac. My sister and mom aren't. They're fully aware of what's normal for their bodies and what's not. They're able to sit here and say, "Okay, this has happened with my body once before and I was fine." I don't have that. At all. I'm the person who suddenly becomes aware of my heartbeat and thinks I'm having a heart attack or something. LOL.

10) I experience some sort of "disembodiment" at times where I'm neither connected to my environment or my body. It's like I'm stuck in some sort of "haze" and the only way I can break out of it is by interacting with my environment. This happens especially when I awake from a dream. My dreams are VERY bizarre too. I won't even elaborate because they're so strange.

11) I get overwhelmed with too much sensory information. I CANNOT have a face-paced job. I once worked at a movie theater and it was actually hell on earth for me. It was loud and I was expected to multitask ALL the time. I also have trouble remember tedious processes. There was a special way we had to process loyalty cards and I could never remember it and even got chastised for it once. I would get pounding headaches and would get sick at my stomach because it was too much for me. I quit. I couldn't take it. I had a job at a small little dollar store for some time. Much better. Allowed me to think while I worked. My sister is easily able to remember how to do processes and tedious work. I can't. Not at all. We both get overwhelmed by too much going on and prefer the quiet, but she is able to at least REMEMBER how to do the job. LOL. I hate jobs that are overly structured. It stressed me out.

12) When my father died, it was extremely hard for my mother to move on. It's understandable, but she was fixated. Her health even declined. I'm not saying I don't miss my father, I think about him every single day, but my mom is still coming to grips about living without him. When my mother had her stroke, my sister became very fearful and hasn't behaved the same around my mother as she did before. Me? I'm not saying I wasn't affected, because it did have some psychological damage on me, but they cannot move on whatsoever. My mother has an extremely detailed memory and talks about them frequently. I have a somewhat detailed memory in the sense that I can remember certain sights and impressions I had. I remember the layout of my beloved childhood home BUT when I was little I made a little "vow" to myself that I'd never forget the homes I lived in. I don't know why. But I still don't dwell on my past much.

13) This is where I start to think I have Si. One time I was kind of forced to jump in the pool and ended up hitting my back on the side, winding myself, and going under water. I broke my tail bone and winded myself badly. Wouldn't jump in the pool again for a LONG time. However, one time I fell off a horse and got winded as well as it hitting my head to the point of dizziness and ear-ringing. I didn't have a concussion or anything. However, as soon as I recovered, I was back to riding without a second thought. In fact, I kind of forgot this happened until just now as I wrote it. Hm. My sister and mom did NOT want me to get back on that horse, ever. Lol.

Okay, I can't think of much else. Please respond. :) Thanks.
 
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#5 ·
Yes, that's what it looks like.

INFJ vs ISFJ

In theory, INFJs’ emotional expressiveness should be fairly similar to that of ISFJs. After all, both types are Introverts and both use Fe as their auxiliary function. The primary difference is that ISFJs, as Si dominants, are wired to function as guardians and conservators of culture and tradition. INFJs, by contrast, function more like societal prophets and diagnosticians, sensitive to what they perceive as the faults and falsities of their environs. This, along with their strong idealism, can contribute to their critical stance toward the world.

Difference between Si and Ni:

Ni vs Si - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Difference between Si and Se:

What would you say is the difference between si... - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic

Difference between INFJ and ISFJ:

Am I an INFJ? 3 Ways to Know if You’re Not – INFJ Blog

Am I an INFJ or an ISFJ



Childhood struggles of each myers briggs type:

The Childhood Struggles of Every Myers Briggs Type - Psychology Junkie

What each function looks like in real life:

How To Recognize Each Myers-Briggs Personality Type In Real Life | Thought Catalog
 
#6 ·
Funky MBTI in Fiction, I ADORE that blog. It's what finally helped me understand cognitive functions.

The thing about my memory is this: I can remember impressions and imagery and feeling a well but not specifics. Example, when I brought my dog home. I love my dog dearly and I remember how she reacted when she first got home. I remember a vision of being in my brother's truck sitting in the back with my dad driving and my brother in the passenger seat and it was sunny when we traveled to pick her up. But that's about it. I remember when I laid eyes on her for the first time, how I cried because we bonded so instantly. But for the life of me, I don't remember what year it was or what day or anything. I know it was in August because I have a memory of asking my father when we did. My dad was an ISFJ, his memory was impeccable. But I can't tell you more than that.
What's even worse? I don't even remember what day it was that my father passed. I know it was around the 20th of July? I have no concept of time. I think it's only been three years since he passed. My mom and sister however know exactly how long it has been and what day it was. I can't remember dates to save my life and I can literally do things like forget where I set my keys. I swear I had them in my hand just five minutes ago.....

Lol!
 
#14 ·
Yes and no. I said it was textbook Ni because I could already tell she was an INFJ based on other things, which led me to deduce that the impetus of her coloring words and notes had to do with unconscious impressions and that sort of thing; for example, G major (a standard triad; inversion would be different) is green, black, and gold for me because the notes G, B, and D are those colors, respectively. (Don't ask me why. I really don't know. :p). Calling this synesthesia is possible, but issue is that it doesn't project; I don't actually see these colors, they're just in my head. Someone has synesthesia because their brain triggers a second (or third, or fourth, etc.), unrelated sensory stimulus in response to an initial event. This would lead a person to actually see a color in response to hearing a certain note, or actually seeing the letter 'A' as rosy red (which, it is rosy red for me, but I don't actually see it like that). It's possible that this is synesthesia, but then it's more likely that it isn't.

Don't let this be definitive for your type, though; I don't personify these ideas nearly as much as OP does (at least, not that I know of). There can be countless reasons for why a person might or might not display a trait of a function.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Give me an example of the kind of abstract concepts you like to talk about. Tell me the core truth of something.

ETA: I mean... check out this interview / this post.

David Bowie. Ni-dom. I thought lower Ni, until I watched more interviews.

The interview quoted in that ... is blah until about 6 minutes in, and then the Ni comes out in full force. Psychopomp is right -- Bowie has been waiting the entire interview to discuss SOMETHING like that. Something pure abstracting and remote and purely conceptual - the internet. The alien invading our lives. The symbol of rebellion and potential. Look how abstracting his language becomes. Look how the interviewer is clearly not understanding a word of it, is totally lost, and tries to bring him back to tangibles. Bowie is having none of it. That's Ni. Pure Ni.

Being creative is not Ni.
Daydreaming is not Ni.
Not being sentimental is not Ni.
Being intelligent is not Ni.

Ni is obscure, unattached, weird, symbolic, and impossible to relate. Ni art is Bowie and his Ziggy character. His music videos from the 1970's/80's where the audience thought, "Dude, what the hell does that even MEAN?"

There is a super low bar for "intuition" on PerC. You can cross it by not being a stick in the mud. But real INFJs are Bowie. And Yoko Ono. And people who are so utterly devoted to subjective impressionism that you catch them in a conversation and it turns into ... that.
 
#26 ·
I cannot watch the videos as something really funky is going on with my browser's plug in that makes some videos suddenly crash. But yes, perhaps you are correct. But now I'm left with more frustration. I think some abstractions confused me and I'm getting pissed with the lack of examples of what REAL cognitive functions look like in people and how it presents itself. When reading on perceiving functions it seems the only ones that make sense to me is Se. The rest? No idea. Fe and Fi make sense. Te and Ti was a touch harder for me to grasp at first. But I understand now.

If I don't get this MBTI crap put to rest for myself I'm going to scream.
 
#30 ·
Norton does strike me as a Ni-dom. I'm not sure he's Fe, though... might be Te in there. He is certainly insistent on carrying out his vision to its absolute conclusion. James Cameron is another high Ni user, though he might be ENTJ. The fact that he patted Kate Winslet on the back after nearly drowning on TITANIC and then told her to get back to work speaks to high Te... maybe higher than aux. By in large, I've found the NFJs are more stylistically weird than the NTJs. It's the Ni/Ti ruminating.
 
#34 ·
I want to put this here, because it's about Si:

It is essential to consider that Si is never rational thought, but PERCEPTION of what is. MBTI changed Si into something about tradition and the past, but Jung meant Si to mean Abstraction of Sensation. Namely, that in the perception of all sensory input, the Si would warp it all heavily through their psyche into something unrecognizable from objective reality, in order to fit into their subjective private world.

Just as Feeling is bound to disturb Thinking, objective Intuition is bound to disturb this subjective private world by injecting wild possibility into it. The Si, then, is bound to struggle to handle or to positively interpret possibility, and to see it as a monstrous thing sent to disturb that private world.

Now, on a philosophical level, the Si might LIKE the idea of possibilities or of randomness, and might embrace progressive ideas as part of their private world view. I am talking, then, about something more mundane... like choosing which college to attend. At such a crossroads in life, the possibilities are endless and this would inevitably trouble or paralyze the Si, who comprehends how much this grey field of possibility is bound to upturn the dreamy fairy tale of life.

As the Si gets older, that fairy tale private world only gets more and more subjective and out of step with the actual world. This makes more and more possibilities seem undesirable and morbid to them. There are, of course, plenty of cases of eccentric and quirky Si-doms who seem to embrace 'weird' things, but again this is not what I mean. They've incorporated these into their private world, and might rather enjoy being that rebellious old lady. Again, it is real possibility in their life that can disrupt them... something or anything that is set to disrupt that world (whatever it may be) that they have built up through their psyche. These disruptions are seen as quite dark and disgusting... though, since we cannot easily tell what that person's psyche has built up as 'real' within their private world, we cannot easily say what will disrupt it.

An example might be that quirky, awesome biology teacher you have that seems like she is out of a movie or a novel, being so eccentric and committed to the out-of-touch and charming private world she has built around her. The school administrators, however, are trying a new program and want to clear out her classroom and relocate her, now as an English teacher. This would be deeply distressful and troubling to her... where a dominant Ne would revel in the possibilities that this disturbance might open to them.
And this:

I cannot grasp why MBTI changed Si into [memory or past reflection or tradition]. As has been said, Si is subjective - and I'll add abstract and inevitably eccentric.

It would be, in and of itself, disinterested in tradition. It is associated with tradition, perhaps, because unlike Pe and specifically Ne, it is uninterested in CHANGE.

Tradition is about sentiment, right? So it would associate with Feeling.

Si is about comprehending reality through the heavy influence of the psyche on sensory stimuli. In essence, creating one's own reality.

Si, at an extreme, is Eleanor Rigby sitting in a house that should be in an episode of hoarders, watching soap operas and BBC period pieces or reading fantasy novels all day because objective reality means nothing to them, but whatever private reality strikes them best... that supports their mythologies best, that syncs with their psyche best, is preferred. Whatever they are, Si types live in a world apart.


Whenever people say 'tradition', all i can think of is that Te is formulaic and objective.. and thus might push proven traditions? Fe might push traditions as part of social propriety or moral control?
Si is not what most people think it is, nor what most people attribute it to.

And again, I offer you a way to start abstracting, I invite you to show me Intuitive -- and you don't.

I'm thinking... sensor.

Do you start abstracting / conceptually-driven conversations or do others pull you into them?

When and if you do so, what are these conceptually driven conversations about?

You talk about loving abstract things, but what IS abstraction to you?

I guess you're somewhat right on the extent I'm interested in what could be. But I'm quite immersed in it. For example, my extreme interest in Witchcraft and Paganism and what "could be" diverted me from the Christian beliefs that were shoved down my throat as a child. I had a tendency to question everything I was taught when learning about it. I never once fully agreed with my family's views on things but I would agree with them outwardly to keep the peace and I thought it was stupid to argue about it anyway.
Sounds like me as a child. And as an adult. Doesn't necessarily indicate type.

Outward agreement to keep the peace might be Fe. Or it might not.

Another "Intuitive" (I quote because it's likely stereotypical) is things along those lines, afterlife, aliens, etc. I often catch some people off guard because I want to talk about those strange things and I've noted that it makes people uncomfortable. I sense this quickly and much to my dismay, stop discussing it. But then people get offended when I "zone out" when you start talking about what your boyfriend said to you last night. I don't give two shits about your relationships. My sister says I can be rude in that manner, but I'm sorry. I JUST DON'T CARE.
The afterlife and aliens are not... specifically... abstract concepts.

How art is subversive and its grayness obscures it and not complete until you are absorbed into it, as Bowie would say, is an abstract stream of thought.

Bolded is Fe. Fi doesn't really care that much if other people aren't interested when it gets excited about talking about its interests. (Cue me not listening to FP friend going on for hours about stuff she loves and I don't, and her literally not noticing that I'm zoned out.)

Also, I'm always wondering if I'm actually Feeling dom/aux sometimes. I'm not affectionate with my family. My ISFJ sister is always saying things like "I love you," and constantly checking in with people's well-being and ugh... wanting to smother them with physical affection.
She's a Heart Enneagram. 2 maybe. I know an ISFJ just like her. I also know some cold, withdrawn, do not touch me ISFJs.

I am uncomfortable with outward affection. I even wrinkle my nose when I see people kiss in movies or worse... in public. Yuck.
Not type related. Not feelings related.

When I was little I sometimes got chastised for accidentally saying things that hurt other's feelings. I do have a tendency to be a bit blunt with some people despite HATING conflict.
Don't we all. I was a notoriously frank child. Still 99% positive I'm Fe though.

Also, two of the most blunt people I have ever known in my life were Fe-doms. ESFJs. Fe doesn't automatically = I care, or I'm nice, or I'm polite.

Which is what made me assume I'm a Feeler. In my Enneagram post I was told I show strong 9 qualities because of my conflict-aversion but yet, when I'm upset, I create it. I hate crying in front of others. I view it as "weak" and I like to give off a tough exterior, but yet I sometimes find it impossible to hold it in. My emotions are so confusing to me, really. I feel things deeply and sometimes things I see in movies, songs, etc. can affect me but when it comes to sympathizing with others? Nah. Like one time my friend started talking about how her dog got put to sleep and started getting emotional with me I didn't feel anything. I did the whole Fe "Oh, I'm sorry..." type of thing but I didn't feel anything. Actually, I started worrying about if I'm some sort of heartless monster because my sister proceeded after she left to tell me how I should've done more. I even got an "Ashley, how can you be so heartless?" comment which struck me deep actually. I'm not heartless. At all. I'm not good at expressing my love for my family or friends, but you have no idea how much they mean to me.
Thomas Cromwell in WOLF HALL is most likely an Enneagram 9 INTJ. You can be a 9 and be a feeler, or you can be a 9 and be a thinker. Enneagram doesn't indicate Feeler or Thinker in MBTI.

Again, I relate. I tap in much easier to entertainment than real people, although I do admit that when a friend told he she had to put her dog to sleep, I cried. Because it was sad. I imagined how she felt. I know what it's like to lose a pet. But knowing how to comfort her with more than just hand-patting and I'm sorry? That is not my area of expertise, I'm afraid.

That last line encompasses me in a nutshell.

(For the record, I type as ISFJ... but a few friends are convinced I'm INTP. =P)

I'd also like to note, it may be hard to type me honestly. I have anxiety (especially social) and depression. I was on medication for a long time to help control my emotional outbursts due to it. That can cloud typing as it causes my behavior to be erratic and not what's normal for me. I can't tell you a time when I didn't have it, either, because it's been something that has stuck with me.
My brother is a high functioning autistic with anxiety disorder on the side. It confuses his type, but he is INTP. Abstract reasoning, frustration at being unable to articulate his thoughts/ideas/feelings in tangible ways, and notorious for rabbit-trailing / going off topic.

I have another MBTI post here, as I posted a second one because last time I didn't get a decent answer. Might help. I swear to the Goddess, I will not stop until I put this to rest. :dry:
I'm inclined to say Sensor, overall. ISFX. There were a few times I got a sense of Se from you, but I don't know.

I'm going to tag @Psychopomp and ask him to read the first post. He may or may not answer, but he's probably the most knowledgeable typist on the forum and is pretty good at assessing individual functions at a glance.
 
#45 ·
Si is not what most people think it is, nor what most people attribute it to.

And again, I offer you a way to start abstracting, I invite you to show me Intuitive -- and you don't.

I'm thinking... sensor.

Do you start abstracting / conceptually-driven conversations or do others pull you into them?

When and if you do so, what are these conceptually driven conversations about?

You talk about loving abstract things, but what IS abstraction to you?
Yeah, you're probably right. Last night, I had a friend, I'm uncertain of his type, started RANDOMLY talking to me in what I deem as abstractions. "Are you a flowing, changing being or one who encourages self suffering by resisting with a set of patterns and restricted beliefs?" Then he sputtered some stuff along the lines of Buddhism. I understood him, but it was irritating to me. That goes deeper though, as he proceeded to tell me about how I was living my life all wrong because I haven't converted to Veganism yet and I started to get pissed which has nothing to do with much. But yeah, that would likely indicate Sensing as I have zero tolerance for nonsense sometimes.

But, I can lead conversations about those strange things that I aforementioned, but as you stated, they're not exactly specifically abstract concepts.

As far as what abstractions mean to me, isn't abstraction itself subjective? Can one truly say what's an abstract concept and what's not? Because that's what abstraction is, something entirely unknown, unseen, and therefore can change form depending on the eyes that see it and the mouth that speaks it. In a very basic definition, abstraction is what cannot be seen. Someone may deem, say, the subject of dragons as an abstract, whereas someone might say gravity is abstract because it can't be seen. Another might be, "Why are humans so drawn to create something, only to see it destroyed when it becomes useless?" The answer to this is unclear, open for debate, and has no real answer. It is unseen and non-tangible.. That, my friend, is an abstraction in my opinion. My sister thinks I'm abstract because I think deeply about things like the afterlife, but you think that this is not an abstract concept. Once again, I repeat, abstract is just that and it will change depending on the person.
It's almost funny, really, how the definition of abstract is abstract. Can even lean on being a paradox. Heheheh...

Bolded is Fe. Fi doesn't really care that much if other people aren't interested when it gets excited about talking about its interests. (Cue me not listening to FP friend going on for hours about stuff she loves and I don't, and her literally not noticing that I'm zoned out.)
See, now, I used to be really bad at this. I once recall trying to get a friend to be as into my new video game as I was. But she was not having it. I saw she wasn't interested. But I didn't give a shit until she ratted me out to my sister who made me quit and do what she wanted which angered me beyond all measure. I would get told I needed to do what my friend wanted when they were over, but ugh, I didn't want to. I'm somewhat better about this now obviously, because I don't want to be a rude person, but it still irritates me. I can see when a person is zoning out to me but I don't quit because it disinterests them, but rather because they've offended me. And I probably won't be hanging out with that person again :) :) :) :) Bye Felicia.


She's a Heart Enneagram. 2 maybe. I know an ISFJ just like her. I also know some cold, withdrawn, do not touch me ISFJs.
That's more me. It depends. I may want a hug, or I may stab you if you touch me when I'm upset. Depends on my mood flux :) :) :) :)

Thomas Cromwell in WOLF HALL is most likely an Enneagram 9 INTJ. You can be a 9 and be a feeler, or you can be a 9 and be a thinker. Enneagram doesn't indicate Feeler or Thinker in MBTI.

Again, I relate. I tap in much easier to entertainment than real people, although I do admit that when a friend told he she had to put her dog to sleep, I cried. Because it was sad. I imagined how she felt. I know what it's like to lose a pet. But knowing how to comfort her with more than just hand-patting and I'm sorry? That is not my area of expertise, I'm afraid.

That last line encompasses me in a nutshell.

(For the record, I type as ISFJ... but a few friends are convinced I'm INTP. =P)
My best friend's father actually just passed away and I've lost my father very unexpectedly too. But I didn't cry with her. She called me on the phone, on the verge of tears (she's a very hardened person, but this did her in obviously)
I mostly just listened to her, and I briefly mentioned that I know what it was like to lose a father. Especially since both of us were very close to our dads, I almost suspect that's why she came to me. She knew I'd understand. But, I didn't want to be selfish or pretend like I knew exactly what she was feeling, because I don't. Her dad died of cancer, mine of sudden heart attack. He died in a hospital right before her eyes, I found mine dead on the floor in my home. While close, our relationships with our fathers were still different. I cried with my family when my dad died, because they all were going through the same thing as me and had the same perception/relationship with him as I did. My friend? No. I also didn't know her father very well and I felt it would be selfish of me to cry over him.
While on the subject of my dad, the funeral was hell for me for this reason: people coddling me and those who barely knew my dad crying when they looked at me. I knew I shouldn't have been like that, but it felt fake. Now, when my dad's coworkers cried I cried with them because they actually DID know my dad well. When they talked about him I would cry, because yup, they spot-on described my father.
I can strongly relate to Fi in the sense that if I haven't been through something, it's hard for me to relate. I'm more sympathetic to those who have lost pets now, because I had to see three put down in the last couple of years.

Also, this is totally unrelated to MBTI most likely, or it could be a key, I hate kids. Why? I can't relate to them and have no experience with them because I was basically an only child (siblings are 20+ years older than me) I was also very mature for my age. I wasn't like most kids. Animals, though? Love them. This bewilders my sister, who literally can't grasp how I can't be sensitive to them (or anyone for that fact.)

I'm inclined to say Sensor, overall. ISFX. There were a few times I got a sense of Se from you, but I don't know.
If you don't mind my asking, in what ways specifically did you see Se (Hehehe.. "see Se")

Also, I do appreciate you taking the time to deal with my exhaustible nature and helping me. I'm persistent persistent. :p
 
#53 ·
@angelcat apparerently i got IEI from this blind reinin dichotomies (i have no idea what that is) quiz too: http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/747081-reinin-dichotomies-blind-description-test-6.html#post24856658

ill just post it here
IEI, with:

CAREFREE (rather than Farsighted) = Found in normative ENxx's as well, so indicative of a possible "CONTACT" pole of the Contact/Ignoring dichotomy of the DCNH subtype system.
STRATEGIC (rather than Tactical) = Found in normative xNxj's as well, so indicative of a possible "TERMINATING" pole of the Initiating/Terminating dichotomy of the DCNH subtype system.

An introvert with a Contact pole is usually a bit more social than the typical introvert.
An irrational with a Terminating pole is usually a bit more organized than the typical irrational.

 
Possible DCNH Subtype:

DOMINANT subtype.
A larger “capacity” (and inclination) to emulate-- meaning, larger capacity to make something that looks like a higher-dimensionality version of a certain function that you're emulating-- one of the following:
(1) Larger capacity to emulate a pseudo-4D (and in the case of an IEI, Producing) Fe: You'll "add a little kick of Fe information to 'flavor' some of your expressions... with a little tiny tiny extra influence from your (IEI, PoLR) Te: it'd pull your PoLR Te more toward being expressed, despite how insecure you may feel about how unsuccessful its usage can be.
(2) Larger capacity to emulate a pseudo-2D (and in the case of an IEI, Producing) Te: You'll "add a little kick of more well-rounded Te information to 'flavor' some of your expressions... with a little tiny tiny extra influence from your (IEI, PoLR) Te: it'd pull your Creative Fe more toward being expressed, making you a bit more sociable or gregarious.

 
Variations (1 and 2) of the Dominant subtype are known as:

(1) Dominant-IEI-Fe: “Dominant-emotional subtype”
(2) Dominant-IEI-Te: “Dominant-executive subtype”
 
#59 ·
What i just said may be a little contradictory to the "result type person" but i i want to find the truth and be sure of it because i think 1 year is a bit too much to contemplate about something like this, and im driving the people around me a little insane, + i could be doing other, more useful stuff but i dont because im too caught up in this topic.
 
#66 ·
I'm more interested in the theory / concept of it / thinking about the functions than I am great at seeing them in people, particularly online through conversation. I'm open to being wrong. Ne sees multiple possibilities and interpretations, so when I intrude on a thread like this I'm more interested in correcting information that is too stereotypical and/or narrow / has nothing to do with the function it is attributed to, and more inclined to offer suggestions and/or examples of functions and try to let people draw their own conclusions than I am to flat out tell you -- "You're this type."

If you're expecting that from me, it won't happen. Mine is a more hands-off theoretical approach. To know your type, you have to get a sense of the functions and their interactions and get a sense of how your brain processes information / how you first interact with the world. Is it through people-dynamics? Sensory information? Conceptual possibilities? External organization? Etc.

I'm like Yoda.

Share information, he does.
Tell you anything directly, he does not.
 
#68 ·
Which sucks. Because, unfortunately that is sort of what I am wanting.
How does one even go about typing themselves???? I know it's no easy endeavor, but I know I'm looking at all the wrong things. How do you even know what your cognitive processes are anyway? They're in your head.


This is how I am currently feeling right now:



:')
 
#75 ·
This might be suggestive of Fi-dom.

Are there other ways you relate to Rey?

Do you find that you are something of a jack of all trades -- able to pick up different things fairly quickly?

Or do you tend more to try out different things and maybe struggle a little at first but become better with practice?
 
#77 ·
Jack of all trades. When I was young, if something didn't come to me easily (especially physical things), I was done with them. Didn't want to do it. I would beat myself up and say "I'll never be good at this!" after like, ten minutes of doing it and my sister would say "Well, you have to practice!"
Ew. Practice. BOORRRIINNNGGGG.

Take martial arts for example. I hardly ever practiced outside of class time and somehow, I managed to pass all my tests.
EVEN MORE INTRIGUING IS THIS: I was born with VERY short Achilles tendons. Meaning, I walk up on my toes at all times and cannot put my heel on the ground. But I still kept up with everyone in my rank, sometimes even being ahead of them.

Ways I relate to Rey....? Oh, I've been waiting for this moment!

When Finn kept grabbing Rey's hand and she shouted at him, "Stop that!" or whatever along those lines, my sister leaned over and said "That's so you."
Hell yes it would be me. I would've laid into him even more than Rey. I can take care of myself, asshole. :p

Also, how she saved BB-8. Reminded me of when I saw my sister's pitbull/lab mix start to tear into a defenseless baby bird. I charged at him, shoved him off, and smacked him in the nose.

NOTE: Now, this sounds bad, but Vader (Yes, that was his name XD Don't tell Kylo Ren!) was a TOUGH dog. He just sneezed at me smacking his nose. Trust me, I only hurt his feelings. Seriously. He ignored me for like a week after that. :p

When a boy kept teasing me when I was little, I shoved him. Boys were scared of me when I was little because I would kick their asses. Which brings me to another situation...
I was at the pool with my friend and I saw him being picked on by two boys (they were hitting him with pool toys) and I went over and splashed the SHIT out of them. I also got a hold of a pool toy and smacked one of them upside the head. :) :) :) NO ONE hits my friends with pool toys without mercy, 'cept me. ;)

I also remember playing football with my guy friend and his other friend. Well, I beat them to the point where the other friend said "Uh, why don't you take my helmet and YOU play on the football team?"

I guess I'm a bit... aggressive sometimes. LOL.
 
#76 ·
This thread strikes me by the intense, almost helpless reliance on the appearance of things in order to comprehend anything about type.

"X does this"
"I do that sometimes!"
"Y doesn't do this"
"Oh, I never do that"


But, where in any of this is even the beginnings of a comprehension of what is actually being discussed?

Are you an Ni? "I talk in metaphors a lot". To me, this is absurd. I don't mean stupid, because it isn't stupid... it is just surreal. It is like you've videotaped yourself and are watching it together with a book of star signs in hand, trying to match up this or that behavior to this or that paragraph in your zodiac personality descriptor.

But what is it for? What does it MEAN?
@angelcat tries to start a conversation about what Ni -IS- and it falls dead... DEAD... dead on arrival. IMMEDIATELY the response is "well, I'll cherry pick one of your examples and related it to something I do". It is circling around the issue, touching it only glancingly and indirectly, because it cannot be directly engaged.

...and then, that tried and true obstacle in our minds against Sensors. "My sister is an ISFJ, and I don't do X and Y that she does so I can't be that." First, this utterly and perfectly avoids and sidesteps the question of what any of this actually -IS-, as if that whole aspect lives in a blind spot that no one knows is even there. So that anything in that blind spot fades out of memory, as insignificant and incidental... when in fact it is the whole of the matter.

This is not remotely how an INFJ thinks. Explaining this to an INFJ is actually a pretty intense experience. They are crazy abstract, but not just abstract Thinkers. Abstract PERCEIVERS. This is why it is so weird. When they comprehend things, it is holistically and irrationally. They don't know, then they KNOW... in the most subjective and off-kilter way. So, I, stammeringly, attempt to explain Ni and they stare at me impassively... because the vision of it... the holistic perception of it as real truth doesn't happen, due to the failure of my explanations. So, they just silently resist. Maybe we can kick in Ti and discuss it abstractly, which helps me get to it.

Then, somehow, suddenly, they stare off somewhere and say, "I get it" ... and the funniest thing happens... they didn't get what I was saying. They saw something for themselves, totally irrespective of me, and now KNOW it. I've become beneath them, my understanding and perception apart from theirs. They needn't sync up. They shouldn't sync up. Theirs is a subjective perception of it, in a void, in the abstract, as a holistic happening in their mind.

When you run into actual Ni types on this forum, it is obvious because it isn't their logical understanding of it that is subjective... but they perceive it, like an object in a void, in their own peculiar and obstinate way... which is deep and insightful for sure, but again, not a rational thing at all.

===

You are all, first of all, not operating even in that arena. Not in that same realm whatsoever. I mean, did it just glance off of everyone that this whole conversation hadn't the least resemblance whatsoever to what @angelcat was saying about David Bowie? But became a discussion of entirely sensory things, like watching that videotape or comparing to others.

This, though, is abstract in its own way, I would argue. That is, entirely Sensory, but approaching those Sensory things in an impressionistic and detached way. Imagining people we know not objectively, but through a subjective or preset (not the object itself but what I have overlaid upon it) lens.... seeing oneself not objectively, but trying to render oneself into some archetype/stereotype in an ever-complex way.


The implications of this are clear... but it is futile because you can't and won't approach this in the way that is necessary. The conversation will fall back to that same sensory approach. The essence of the thing will not be engaged as it needs to be. It will all revert to sensory cues and comparisons. That obstacle of "I am not like that person whom I have so associated with my conception of a type that I cannot dislodge them and readjust".
 
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