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Maybe's Socionics Type

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This is a discussion on Maybe's Socionics Type within the What's my Socionics type? forums, part of the Socionics Forum category; Originally Posted by aestrivex ESI, perhaps. Where ESI is not so obvious is in the explicitly stated unwillingness to dismiss ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    ESI, perhaps. Where ESI is not so obvious is in the explicitly stated unwillingness to dismiss what other people have to say. That is to say, ESIs as gammas still have an aspect, even if it is not always on the surface, of avoiding the bad people.

    I do see the merit, in the questionnaire here but moreso in the one linked just above, of an Se valuing quadra with themes of "gritty determination" and "resilience in individual achievement" and so forth. But I also prefer an Fi valuing quadra, and probably Fi dominance, from much of the language and "togetherness" of the answers -- I wonder about the beta option but it does not jump out at me at all. So I am not totally decided; if there were more of a hint of latent judgmental "avoid bad sources" under the surface, I would have no issue seeing ESI.


    judgment being subdued and instead appearing as forgiveness or uncertainty is something I have noticed in multiple ESIs from heavily religious backgrounds. but in those cases, harsh judgment -- where even if the outward attitude is friendly, inwardly there is a seething distaste and a desire to position oneself away from the offending party -- is still present, merely not obvious at first glance.
    I don't know socionics - I'm interested, but working on another project now so I haven't been researching it extensively, and I wanted to fill out the questionnaire without preconceived notions about that system. But for the sake of the discussion:

    I was raised by two atheist parents, and I've always been free to choose any religion I want or just ignore the whole thing if I felt like it; my background has been really open in that regard. The 458 thread... I don't want to kick up *more* drama but all I can say is, there's more to that than meets the eye.

    That being said, what about Fi for a creative function? What would be the implications of that?
    Entropic thanked this post.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    I was raised by two atheist parents, and I've always been free to choose any religion I want or just ignore the whole thing if I felt like it; my background has been really open in that regard.
    Good to know. What I said about religious ESIs is of course not a hard and fast rule, but rather something I have observed in the past.

    The 458 thread... I don't want to kick up *more* drama but all I can say is, there's more to that than meets the eye.
    That's quite clear. Even so in such an environment, you went out of your way not to disparage the other participants but rather focused intently on precisely scrutinizing the statements on the table and avoiding reading into anything more. This type of good faith judgment often a normal modus operandum of christian communities, and it is characteristic of the delta quadra. It is also a goal state of ESIs, perhaps -- but ESIs also have the character of dismissing others in their environment. To they extent that they have good faith judgment, it is more of an internal, psychological struggle to gradually see that people are not all bad. They can indeed have the declarative point of view that good faith and forgiveness are worth giving -- but inwardly, there is the moving-away-from attitude towards bad influences, where delta types have a characteristic subdued-perhaps-but-moving-towards behavior.

    That being said, what about Fi for a creative function? What would be the implications of that?
    This question is very broad; there are many implications. Not the least of which is that the all-encompassing drive of moral fiber is no longer all-encompassing, and the propensity for proactive industry (especially IEEs) is lessened. Naturally they value Fi so these traits present to a lesser, situational degree. Having no preconceptions myself, I am unable to see why an Fi extrovert would be preferable to an Fi dominant for your type.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    After speaking to Maybe for many months now, I think between her and I, I am more apt to exact this "harsh judgement" behavior you speak of than Maybe. I'm far more judgemental than she is.
    I agree with you, that was my initial reaction. I am persuaded -- I had this thought initially -- that there is an aspect of maybe that is a little too much a "strong person" oriented towards achievement, leadership, and industry than I would typically expect of EII. So I am putting the pieces together. But it is interesting that you agree with my initial reaction -- even if the value I place on what you say is very low.

    Instead of looking at how she perceives her personality, why don't you show what IMs she actually seem to express...? Persona can be misleading.
    If you are talking to me, you are not paying attention. But I am not concerned to explain myself to you.

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  5. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    Good to know. What I said about religious ESIs is of course not a hard and fast rule, but rather something I have observed in the past.
    Yeah, I figured it wasn't a 'rule' but I just wanted to clarify in case it mattered in any way.

    That's quite clear. Even so in such an environment, you went out of your way not to disparage the other participants but rather focused intently on precisely scrutinizing the statements on the table and avoiding reading into anything more. This type of good faith judgment often a normal modus operandum of christian communities, and it is characteristic of the delta quadra. It is also a goal state of ESIs, perhaps -- but ESIs also have the character of dismissing others in their environment. To they extent that they have good faith judgment, it is more of an internal, psychological struggle to gradually see that people are not all bad. They can indeed have the declarative point of view that good faith and forgiveness are worth giving -- but inwardly, there is the moving-away-from attitude towards bad influences, where delta types have a characteristic subdued-perhaps-but-moving-towards behavior.
    Interesting. I definitely don't have "bad-faith judgement," which is funny because I'm a core 8, so I have this "I won't depend on anyone" mentality, but I also don't presume evil motives in others - I react to what is shown to me. I assume I'm on my own, every man/woman for himself/herself... but I tend to approach most situations with *no* expectations and simply react to what is there. If I see something I don't like, the reaction can be anything from 'internally moving away' to confrontation when warranted. It's only warranted, though, if there are personal ties and the person is basically 'getting in my way.' It would not be warranted strictly on a moral basis. For instance I only seem to confront people about their behavior on this website if they are making *my* posting experience unpleasant over a long period of time, or they attack someone I'm friends with and I think their attack was unwarranted. If I simply see someone behaving like an ass, I might think to myself, "pfft" , and feel less inclined to befriend them if they should try, but I won't jump in and try to correct them either. Don't know if that helps.

    This question is very broad; there are many implications. Not the least of which is that the all-encompassing drive of moral fiber is no longer all-encompassing, and the propensity for proactive industry (especially IEEs) is lessened. Naturally they value Fi so these traits present to a lesser, situational degree. Having no preconceptions myself, I am unable to see why an Fi extrovert would be preferable to an Fi dominant for your type.
    So you're thinking Fi dominant... and Se creative?

    What, in your opinion (or anyone else here) is the best place to look for initial 'descriptions' of each type? Perhaps I can read one and share my impressions..

  6. #15

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    I agree with you, that was my initial reaction. I am persuaded -- I had this thought initially -- that there is an aspect of maybe that is a little too much a "strong person" oriented towards achievement, leadership, and industry than I would typically expect of EII. So I am putting the pieces together. But it is interesting that you agree with my initial reaction -- even if the value I place on what you say is very low.
    Which is why Fi creative makes much more sense than Fi base, part because she is not judgemental like Fi base types are since they are rational types.

    If you are talking to me, you are not paying attention. But I am not concerned to explain myself to you.
    Because there's no content for you to offer.

  7. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    I'm a core 8
    I am unable to see that. I suggest type 1, or perhaps type 3.

    For instance I only seem to confront people about their behavior on this website if they are making *my* posting experience unpleasant over a long period of time, or they attack someone I'm friends with and I think their attack was unwarranted. If I simply see someone behaving like an ass, I might think to myself, "pfft" , and feel less inclined to befriend them if they should try, but I won't jump in and try to correct them either. Don't know if that helps.
    That is a possible manifestation of harsh judgment -- after all, judgment starts with some trigger. But what is the real feature of harsh judgment is the internal message of moving away. If you see people who have wronged you and you are outwardly polite but inwardly say "I don't want to deal with this person," that is harsh judgment.

    And of course, all types experience that basic experience, but in gammas it happens faster, and the intensity of the dislike generated is greater. In deltas, particularly EIIs and IEEs, the threshold for "evilness" to condemn someone is high, and the threshold for forgiveness and attempt to understand their motivations and potential is low.

    So it may be that what you are saying is enough evidence of harsh judgment, I am still not decided personally.

    So you're thinking Fi dominant... and Se creative?
    That is certainly a strong possibility.

    What, in your opinion (or anyone else here) is the best place to look for initial 'descriptions' of each type? Perhaps I can read one and share my impressions..
    I suggest my site
    Animal thanked this post.

  8. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Which is why Fi creative makes much more sense than Fi base, part because she is not judgemental like Fi base types are since they are rational types.
    That, obviously, is not how I think it works.

  9. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    I am unable to see that. I suggest type 1, or perhaps type 3.
    I've studied enneagram thoroughly and I'm certain of my core. I also mistyped at 3 for a while and heavily considered 1.

    That is a possible manifestation of harsh judgment -- after all, judgment starts with some trigger. But what is the real feature of harsh judgment is the internal message of moving away. If you see people who have wronged you and you are outwardly polite but inwardly say "I don't want to deal with this person," that is harsh judgment.
    Nono.. it's not that I'm outwardly polite. I'm pretty terrible at being polite, coming off one way while I feel another. It's more that I just don't care about most people that much. I really don't "judge" - I just have to remove the interference if someone is in my way, and I'll extend that to a friend as well. I don't spend enough time thinking about other people who I barely know, to bother judging them. That doesn't mean I don't remember the data that I see, but I don't sit around thinking about judging them or not. If that person attempts to reach out to me, and I already had the impression that we would not get along, I would probably address the concerns in an honest way? (I do so much better with specific examples rahter than generalizations about myself, so I have to think about this)

    And of course, all types experience that basic experience, but in gammas it happens faster, and the intensity of the dislike generated is greater. In deltas, particularly EIIs and IEEs, the threshold for "evilness" to condemn someone is high, and the threshold for forgiveness and attempt to understand their motivations and potential is low.

    So it may be that what you are saying is enough evidence of harsh judgment, I am still not decided personally.



    That is certainly a strong possibility.



    I suggest my site
    Cool - checking now. Thanks =)

  10. #19

    Okay - just to get my toes barely wet, I'm going to react to the first paragraph of the types that were suggested

    ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others.

    Attuned to my states, sure. Reactions to others? Only happens when it counts, if that makes sense?

    They may commonly be introspective and constantly in a state of trying to sort out the way they really feel. ESIs value their own sense of fidelity and life stability, and they may always try to treat others with fairness and decency. However, they often tend to be highly reliant on their attitudes towards others in directing their path through life, which can sometimes lead them down circuitous and complicated pathways and interfere with their moral rectitude.
    Hmm yeah, I like to take responsibility for my actions, but fairness and decency? Fidelity, stability? No. I was quite umm, wild for many years of my life... make my own rules in every way.... never play by the books unless I happen to agree with them, or they suit my purposes.

    I never listened to waht my parents want me to do - I respect their opinion and I ask for it, but as early as age 7 or 8, I made my own rules & kept a bag packed so I could run away if they tried to control me or force me to do anything. I work hard because I like working & autonomy is important to me, but it has really nothing to do with morals in the sense of depending on others to tell me what I should be doing. The "reliant on attitudes towards others directing my path" couldn't be further from how I would be.... I've always made my own way. Some of my biggest accomplishments happened in situations where nobody believed in me and everyone told me the odds were stacked against me, and I forged forward with my vision & triumphed in the end.

    EIIs are predominantly oriented towards their emotional experience. They pay attention to the emotional world from an internal locus, focusing on their own internally felt emotional responses and those of others, largely independently of overt emotional displays. EIIs, as with their dominant kindreds, are highly aware of and affected by their emotions, but are predominantly stoic and subdued. The most prominent feature of EIIs as a group is their reserve. Recognizing the emotions of an EII requires one to look for signs much more subtle than other types that more plainly wear their emotions on their sleeves.

    Emotional experience is important to me. I wear my emotions on my sleeve though... stoic & subdued is ... a little confusing... I'm not sure if it's accurate. I'm gonna paste another paragraph here.

    The emotional reactions of EIIs often are the focus of objects (sources) -- that is, their emotional reactions are often specifically directed towards people or things. This can be understood as the nature of 's tendency to evaluate character; they observe the individual, independent qualities of the people or sources they are assessing. EIIs' evaluation of character, however, lacks the "fire and brimstone" approach of ESIs, who evaluate character simplistically and make somewhat clear psychological divisions between "good" and "evil" people or sources. Instead, EIIs are genuinely nonjudgmental in their judgment -- they are observant of the context and conditions that lead to the development of the character of the sources in question, and are sometimes also observant of changes that might be made in order to facilitate that source reaching its true potential. EIIs' attitudes can be judgmental and crass, but as a rule they are slow to judge, dislike fighting, and are quick to forgive.
    Hmm, I don't even believe in "good" and "evil..."
    Though I do relate to type 8 description "With me or against me."
    It's much more personal based., like, "how does this affect *me*"
    IEIs typically have richly developed mental landscapes. They are highly attuned to trends, patterns, and conceptual connections of past behaviors, experiences, relationships, and their role in the world. They are often highly reflective and imaginative, and the fantastic tendencies of IEIs are often vivid and complex. Many IEIs find an inner calling to express their unique perspectives, and often find ways to make use of a myriad of expressive forms, sometimes including poetry, novels, storytelling, photography, or other media.
    IEIs may also demonstrate their phrenic activities by assessing connections, patterns, and implications of events in their experience, often with a human slant. They may seek to understand the dynamics and mechanisms of people, groups, relationships, situations, or experiences. They make judgments and assessments of others based on past trends and behaviors and seek to explain what makes others tick.

    I can't disagree with any of this. I'm underlining the stuff that is especially pertinent.

    IEEs are predominantly motivated by their feelings of interest and boredom.
    Feelings of interest yes. Boredom? I've seriously never experienced the thing.

    They are attracted to novel ideas, unusual or peculiar goings-on in day-to day life, and new experiences.
    I tend towards excessive obsession over the same thing, and orientation towards childhood passions that never change. For instance, I've been working on the same fantasy series & same music body snce I was a kid, and I'm 32. I don't necessarily value unusual or peculiar over soemthing that just "turns me on."

    They may have a tendency to frequently engage themselves in novel life "projects," which can and often consist of novel concepts or fields of thought, new activities, and new lifestyles (this list is not all-inclusive). These types of projects often take the form of activities that are uncommon, concepts that are unknown or avocations that have not been done or tried before. Regardless of the nature of their interests, they often have a tendency to try to accumulate as much knowledge about the field as they can, and sometimes to improve the field by finding new ways of conceptually framing its basic principles (needs an example). Eventually, once there is nothing left to discover, or when they simply become bored, they will follow their curiosity and find a new topic of interest.
    Hmm.. I am really not geared towards the 'new' - I'm more geared towards getting deeper and deeper into the same thing, if that makes sense.

    Last edited by Animal; 05-09-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  11. #20

    I know better than to go by descriptions, but based on these descriptions I really can't see ESI or EII. IEI and IEE look more similar to how I am... I'll have to look into each one further when I have a chance.


     
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