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This is a discussion on Maybe's Socionics Type within the What's my Socionics type? forums, part of the Socionics Forum category; Originally Posted by aestrivex It is not likely we will ever agree. But I am not bothered by this disagreement ...

  1. #31

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    It is not likely we will ever agree. But I am not bothered by this disagreement at all, because you have listened and treated reasonably and simply disagree, and I am glad that you are not either (I believed that you would not be, indeed -- otherwise it is unlikely I would have posted this).
    Yes. I know and I do appreciate you taking the time. It's just that what you're describing is a misinterpretation of who I am. I'm not suggesting it's a misinterpretation of enneagram.

    I did not feel the 'need' to take nude photos. I am an artist and I express myself honestly. I feel as though I'm a vessel through which art emerges. I allow it to do so. Nude photos don't have to do with sexuality. It has to do with vulnerability. None of my nude photos were remotely sexual. It was more like, an image of being naked at the piano, stripped and laid bare with my emotions and everything that the world took from me. Nothing to do with sex, actually. It had more to do with dominance over my own destiny and the will to conquer hardship. I wrote 'lust is the root of all evil' on these photos because I knew that I was destructive towards others because of my own fear of vulnerability.

    It's reasons like this why I feel like I'm being misinterpreted even though you're making very poignant insights. But, I realize it's not obvious. Art is art and it speaks for itself, but I"m not willing to share those photos so instead I am trying to explain something in words that shouldn't be. =P

    Again, I do thank you for taking the time though. I will think this through because some of your observations are interesting even if I don't agree on the type implications.

  2. #32

    Quote Originally Posted by aestrivex View Post
    8s need to be in control of the environment as it is affected by the other autonomous and unjustly-acting agents around them -- which in your example here you dismiss as of no importance.
    Sigh. Here are some excerpts from Naranjo on type 8. I could do this all day but I need to get to work so I'll stick with Naranjo for now.

    Also “the appeal of life lies in its mastery. It chiefly entails his determination, conscious or unconscious, to overcome every obstacle—in or outside himself—and the belief that he should be able, and in fact is able, to do so. He should be able to master the adversities of fate, the difficulties of a situation, the intricacies of intellectual problems, the resistances of other people, conflicts in himself. The reverse side of the necessity for mastery is his dread of anything connoting helplessness; this is the most poignant dread he has.”10

    Autonomy

    As Horney has remarked, we could not expect anything other than self-reliance in one who approaches others as potential competitors or targets of exploitation. Along with the characteristic autonomy of ennea-type VIII is the idealization of autonomy, a corresponding rejection of dependency and passive oral strivings. The rejection of these passive traits is so striking that Reich postulated that phallic-narcissistic character constitutes precisely a defense against them.16

    Vs. type 3

    c) Closely related to the pursuit of success are also the traits of control over self as well as over others, and dominance. These are typically observed in parents in their behavior toward their children, whom they may overpower through unsought advice and the insistence on having things done their way (even in the case of choices that would be more fitting for the children to make on their own).

    Which is not to say that 3s are not affected by external appraisals of their success. But rather than external appraisals, their sense of competence and achievement is related to their own industry.
    Naranjo on type 3
    We also find a description of a “Plastic Woman”: “In an effort to obtain strokes, she encases herself in plastic: bright jewelry, platform heels, foxy clothes, intriguing perfumes, and dramatic make-up. She tries to buy beauty and OKness, but never really succeeds. She feels chronically one-down of ‘media beauty’ women whom she idolizes in women’s magazines and the movies… . When superficial beauty can no longer be bought and pasted on, she ends up depressed: she gets no strokes that she truly values, either from herself or from others. She may try to fill the void with alcohol, tranquilizers, or other chemicals. As an older woman, she often fills her life with trivia and her house with knick-knacks.”


    “A dominant characteristic in women with hysterical personality is their emotional lability. They relate easily to others and are capable of warm and sustained emotional involvements—with the important exception of an inhibition in their sexual responsiveness. They are usually dramatic and even histrionic, but their display of affects is controlled and has socially adaptive qualities. The way they dramatize their emotional experiences may give the impression that their emotions are superficial, but exploration reveals otherwise: their emotional experiences are authentic. These women may be emotionally labile, but they are not inconsistent or unpredictable in their emotional reactions. They lose emotional control only selectively, vis-a-vis a few closely related persons concerning whom they have intense conflicts, especially of a sexual and competitive nature.”

    Respectfully, the emptiness and lack of feeling is characteristic of type 3.
    He adds that: “even though hysterical women are prone to emotional crisis they have the capacity to ‘snap out’ of such crises and evaluate them realistically afterwards” and that “they may cry easily and tend toward sentimentality and romanticism, but their cognitive capacities are intact.” This is in contradiction with Shapiro’s observation8 of “a cognitive style of hysterical patients characterized by their tendency toward global perception, selective inattention, and impressionistic rather than accurate representations”—all of which, I think, fits the histrionic ennea-type II well.


    The need to maintain integrity in your own eyes is also characteristic -- unhealthy 8s have few qualms about the morality of their controllingness.
    Integrity is a different thing than morality. Justice & 'your own brand of integrity' regardless of outside standards is actually characteristic of 8.
    She elaborates on the pride in the honesty, fairness, and justice of the vindictive person. “Needless to say, he is neither honest, fair nor just and cannot possibly be so. On the contrary, if anybody is determined—unconsciously—to bluff his way through life with a disregard for truth, it is he … But we can understand his belief that he possesses these attributes to a high degree if we consider his premises. To hit back or—preferably—to hit first appears to him (logically!) as an indispensable weapon against the crooked and hostile world around him. It is nothing but intelligent, legitimate self-interest. Also, not questioning the validity of his claims, his anger, and the expression of it must appear to him as entirely warranted and ‘frank.’ “There is still another factor which greatly contributes to his conviction that he is a particularly honest person and which is important to mention. He sees around him many compliant people who pretend to be more loving, more sympathetic, more generous than they actually are. And in this regard he is indeed more honest. He does not pretend to be a friendly person; in fact he disdains doing so.”

    That is unfortunately the exact type of 'integrity' I refer to. "At least I was honest and didn't pretend to love."

    I could go on, but it is more pointing out that your story is self-deceitful, rather than deceitful to others, and that it has characteristics of type 3.
    Self-deceit of type 3 has to do with believing that you ARE the image you project. Self-deceit of type 8 has to do with denial of shame and vulnerable emotions.

    Also closely related to the hostile characteristic of ennea-type VIII are traits of toughness, manifest through such descriptors as “confrontativeness,” “intimidation,” “ruthlessness,” “callousness.” Such characteristics are clearly a consequence of an aggressive style of life, not compatible with fear or weakness, sentimentality or pity. Related to this unsentimental, realistic, direct, brusque, blunt quality, there is a corresponding disdain for the opposite qualities of weakness, sensitivity and, particularly, fear. We may say that a specific instance of the toughening of the psyche is an exaggerated risk-taking characteristic, through which the individual denies his own fears and indulges the feeling of power generated by his internal conquest. Risk-taking, in turn, feeds lust, for the type VII individual has learned to thrive on anxiety as a source of excitement, and rather than suffering, he has—through an implicit masochistic phenomenon—learned to wallow in its sheer intensity. Just as his palate has learned to interpret the painful sensations of a hot spice as pleasure, anxiety—and/or, rather the process of hardening oneself against it—has become, more than a pleasure, a psychological addiction, something without which life seems tasteless and boring.

    Vs. 3

    Ennea-type III not only cares for appearance but also has developed a skill in presentation; presenting others, presenting things and ideas. The special flair for selling and advertising that characterizes these individuals would seem to be a generalization of an ability that was originally developed in the service of “selling” and promoting themselves. Thus they not only are interested in such things as their clothing and cosmetics and exhibiting good manners, they are expert packagers of goods and information and excel in the advertising industry. The trait of promoting others, explicitly or implicitly, can be akin to a complementary one: the ability to present things or people in a bad light, to manipulate their image in an adverse way—which may be done not only through slander but also through a sophisticated social skill whereby it is possible to seem nice while back-stabbing an opponent or competitor.

    Other Directedness

    Closely related to this group of traits having to do with concern about appearance and the skill in self-preservation is another having to do with the values according to which the ideal self is shaped. These are characteristically neither intrinsic nor original but external to the individual, who is the most other-directed among all the characters and has developed a skill in conducting an implicit and ongoing “marketing research” in the entourage as a point of reference for his thinking, feeling, and action.

    The trait of identification with prevalent values embodies both other-directedness and the chameleon quality of type III in general, i.e., his or her readiness to change in attitude or appearance according to fashions. Related to this other-directed characteristic, in turn, is the progressive but conservative disposition of ennea-type III—a disposition not unqualifiedly conservative, as in type IX, but a combination of conformity with a striving for progress or excellence (that results in an orientation to what is modern and avant-garde) without being radical. In practice what is both modern and shows itself tobe modern without throwing traditional values into question is scientific progress and thus again a root of technocratic orientation that is so characteristic of ennea-type III psychology.


    As an aside, I think Hitler was a 4.
    Lol, Hitler does not strike me as 8ish in the slightest. Also I have often considered 4w3 typing for myself.

  3. #33
    Unknown

    @Animal

    by a couple of photos I may suppose INTP / ILI as your type

    it's much better to have a 10 min video for the typing. I'm using intuitive impressions from the nonverbal
    Animal thanked this post.


     
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