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This is a discussion on Looking for my Socionics type within the What's my Socionics type? forums, part of the Socionics Forum category; Originally Posted by Fenix Wulfheart For q49: Sure. Let's see. I remember a person showed up to the birthday party ...

  1. #21

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix Wulfheart View Post
    For q49: Sure. Let's see. I remember a person showed up to the birthday party of my Aunt about a month after my Grandma, her mother, had died. This person showed up with an extra guest, uninvited, and tried to set my aunt up with this guest at my aunt's birthday party. This was all kinds of wrong. It was inconsiderate to my aunt's feelings, for one. It was not the right time for it, either, because of the loss in the family. This is a thing that most people I have ever met would agree is something you just don't do. My reasoning dictates that in every way this was inappropriate.
    Got nothing really to contribute to type here, but that would really, really piss me off too.

  2. #22
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by myst91 View Post
    I have yet to see Fenix exercise force. I've seen quite the opposite actually. As for confrontation settings, all I've seen from him so far was setting up boundary limits. Have you got some examples of where he exerted force and did more than just setting boundaries?

    I don't know what you call Fe but I see nothing that'd indicate 1D Ti of EIE here, at all.
    I've been PMing him for days. He has given reasons for stronger Se than the average IEI, which I won't share. I'm not concluding EIE, I merely suspected it as a possibility.

    I haven't read the questionnaire. Haven't got the patience for them.
    Last edited by Valtire; 04-25-2016 at 09:31 PM.

  3. #23
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by myst91 View Post
    I have yet to see Fenix exercise force. I've seen quite the opposite actually. As for confrontation settings, all I've seen from him so far was setting up boundary limits. Have you got some examples of where he exerted force and did more than just setting boundaries?

    I don't know what you call Fe but I see nothing that'd indicate 1D Ti of EIE here, at all.
    I'm going to agree with this. I actually sensed that there was a lack of Se (but not neccessarily in the inferior, dual-seeking way). Also, from my observations, Beta NFs don't really shy-away from conflict or forum drama. In fact, they seem enjoy it. xD

    EDIT: @Fenix Wulfheart I find you a mystery too! I can see solid arguments for both IEI and EII.
    Last edited by Kintsugi; 04-25-2016 at 09:46 PM.
    Lord Fenix Wulfheart thanked this post.

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  5. #24

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Eggz View Post
    I've been PMing him for days. He has given reasons for stronger Se than the average IEI, which I won't share. I'm not concluding EIE, I merely suspected it as a possibility.

    I haven't read the questionnaire. Haven't got the patience for them.
    @Fenix Wulfheart Would you be ok with sharing these reasons by any chance?


    Quote Originally Posted by The Perfect Storm View Post
    I'm going to agree with this. I actually sensed that there was a lack of Se (but not in the inferior, dual-seeking way).
    So you are seeing Se PoLR?

  6. #25
    Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by myst91 View Post

    So you are seeing Se PoLR?
    Basically, yeah. I got a sense of an aversion to the Se-brand of force/will.
    myst91 and SheWolf thanked this post.

  7. #26

    Quote Originally Posted by myst91 View Post
    I have yet to see Fenix exercise force. I've seen quite the opposite actually. As for confrontation settings, all I've seen from him so far was setting up boundary limits. Have you got some examples of where he exerted force and did more than just setting boundaries?

    I don't know what you call Fe but I see nothing that'd indicate 1D Ti of EIE here, at all.
    I called him out in Beta Quadra thread (I think it was that thread). It was the thing I apologized for not long after. Basically, I said I didn't think his typing methods were allowing for other perspectives on what a given line of text could mean. He wasn't, really, but he came across that way to me so I disagreed with him. I would personally say the limit of my confronting people is boundary setting unless I am in actual danger.

    @Fried Eggz I respect you and thank you for choosing not to share the things I told you in confidence. However, I didn't really need for that to be private. That's why I asked for typing info on this thread more publicly :D. Thanks though.

    I'll just copy and paste what I said to him from my Inbox, it'll be in my next post.

  8. #27

    Here it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix Wulfheart
    K, this is a long one, with painful personal anecdotes. I put 'em in spoilers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Eggz
    Do you think I am validly typed as an LSI?
    I hadn't thought about it. However, my impression of you from these messages gives me an overall ethical vibe moreso than a logical one. For whatever that is worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Eggz
    I would be quite interested in hearing how you mind works so I can get a picture.
    Its like I run things through my head and pick out what's missing from my understanding, and then go and try to fill in the blanks. Like nothing is really as it seems, nothing is complete, but if I look hard enough the truth will come. So I run the information or whatever through my head over and over, going back and forth over my own thought process and over whatever my focus is, and pick out new things. Sometimes things contradict, and when that happens I know I must be missing something that will make it work or otherwise make sense. And sometimes I can't figure out what that is, so I'll just keep learning new things and trying to find the answers.

    Its like...all of what is being discussed is already there, already complete, and I'm not trying to build a system to encompass what is real, but rather I see what is real and how it is already a system, and I have to look closer to see what the rules are and what other people are missing.

    That would be how I thought you were missing alternate viewpoints - there is more to this, that is my default assumption. This is clearly Dynamic, and it appears to be Positivist and...well...vortex-like. I'm trying to find missing links.

    I hope that is sufficient. I'm really tired, and I can tell that I am not being super clear here. I wrote some examples in that styles of cognition thread I posted, IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Eggz
    I seem to have lost where it was. It was something about observing and gathering objective data. That's what I criticise Ni-doms for not doing; not the other way around.
    Sounds like you are just having an off day then XD

    Anyway, that's not what I was doing in my own head. I felt like you were trying to say some objective data was correct without proper justification, and based on a single comment. I saw a lack of open-mindedness, not some inefficient use of data (I don't even know what your data was. Hence the reason I needed to apologize (see the thread). I felt like you believe the system to be some sort of static unchanging process with clear definitions that do not adapt to variances within people, and within their given mindset. Like, Kane is not in a place right now for accurately representing himself, and is clearly portraying his more logical side as a defence against attacks that may or may not be coming because he feels like the typing process is volatile. Well, OK, I should say I *see* it that way. So the Te is there, sure, but is it dominant or is it increased in the portrayal while other traits are hidden back? Is that how he metabolizes information, or is some other way? I believe the system to be more complex than that, and that's why I try to listen to what people are telling me and what they are not telling me, and be aware that I can be wrong. I don't like it, but it is simply how it is. Pride is a sin I grappled with enough to know that it is not what will help me or anyone else, and so even though it hurts I will not close my mind to what I believe. I must keep my mind open, and remember that the feeling of completeness when I see what I did not see before is not an indicator that I have learned all there is to know.

    Also, how many times have you criticized me for not observing/gathering/using all of the objective data (AKA > the mistakes I make in what's my type forum) :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Eggz
    This is not how I understand that 1D functions are supposed to work. When you are forced to use one without experience, it's supposed to result in failure, which is basically what has happened to me when I use Ne.

    What about Te? You seem like you're not so bad at it; not counting your problems with details, which could just as easily be weak sensing.
    Problems with details are one of the hallmarks of the Left/Result types of Intuitives, which IEI is and EIE is.

    I highly disagree that 1D functions result in failure. Particularly since I have successfully managed to do almost every important thing I set my mind to, which at one time or another has shown each function (only exception so far is learning to drive). My biggest failure point has been learning to drive, because the details completely overwhelm me. The EIE I know loves to drive, and I think it has to do with Se HA. Me, I hate driving and never want to do it. Similarly, I have often sucked at organizing information in a coherent way.

    Here is a quote from Gulenko about 1D functions:

    "If the function has more dimensions, this does not mean that it holds "more" information. A multi-dimensional function is multidimensional, not because it contains more information, but because the number of parameters taken into account during its processing is higher. What differentiates the workings of a function possessing higher dimensionality is the breadth of its approach, better linking of information, which allows it to give out a result that is more optimal and adequate [3]."

    Notice that it doesn't say that the output is negative or fundamentally bad. It says it is *less* optimal and adequate. Less implies that it could be better, that other things the person does are superior, but it does not imply that it is a failure. Failure would be the *least* optimal and adequate, or something to that effect.

    JUST NOTICED: You put a caveat in the 1D functions statement that you meant *without experience* the functions would fail. In order to facilitate understanding, I am going to LEAVE the above in. Normally I would just delete that entire thing and put in a new thought stream with correct information about my thoughts in relation to what you actually said...but this time I shall leave the mistake and my running with it. This is to show the difference in how I would communicate face to face with my highly edited online replies. This is what happens before I hit post that makes me sound so coherent and well put together. The truth is, I WORK FOR IT.

    Now, in response to what you actually said: I had plenty of experience with Se before that, and many failures. I used to be beaten by my stepfather for not being manly enough, tough enough, etc. I had to have not just high marks in school but the highest. I had to write him ESSAYS about "what I did wrong" when I got in trouble, often over arbitrary or contradictory rules. Then he would end punishments early or change his mind. I had no structure and plenty of practice learning how to do the one thing that earned his respect. Be stereotypical Alpha Male and be logical, feelingless, tough, and willing to use physical force to get what I want...except against him. I had to not do so with him, and instead be totally subservient. The one thing he couldn't teach me was to use physical force; that, I failed every single time and still do. I don't....do that. I appreciate those that can, but I feel...unable.

    In other words, I am not good at Se because of anything less than direct, brutal experience and several situations I barely survived. Even then, I think I survived because of Ni and not Se in some of the worst situations.

     
    I remember when I sat down next to a girl on a school bus in high school. She hated me, but it was the only seat on the bus. She shoved me out of it, and the driver told me I had to be seated for us to go. She wouldn't let me sit, and the situation was going to get worse if I held us all up. The other kids all already hated me, so I couldn't afford to let it continue. I knew that if I wanted to survive in Woodbrook, I needed to keep an eye on people were perceiving me. So I sat down and physically rooted myself in place. She shoved and shoved and shoved, but I was twice her size. She couldn't move me. I was so terrified of this tiny little girl, but I got some respect for it.
    Of course, I was right to be terrified.
    The very next day, her gangbanger brother rolled up on me in broad daylight in the street by our bus stop. He pulled out a pistol and pointed it into my face. He proceeded to demand that I apologize to his sister, publicly, in front of all the kids at the bus stop, or he would kill me.
    Of course, if I did that, then the other bangers would know that I could be coerced, and I would get pulled into the drug racket I had worked so fucking hard to stay out of, and I would die anyway.
    So I psychoanalyzed him, verbally. I laid out for him all the things I could tell about him, his sister, the banger driving the car (he was the passenger)...I explained what he was really doing with his life, and where he was going. I talked to him about his current role in society, how he would not be missed when he couldn't hold that gun any longer. I talked and talked and talked...until the cop I knew would roll by every 20 minutes showed. Then I wound up, told him that I could see what he was, and that if he shot me I had better die from it or I would take that gun and finish him myself. And even if I couldn't...he would not survive. And I pointed at the cop, who had not noticed what was happening yet as he was several blocks away.
    The banger spluttered a bit and rolled on by. I never saw him again, thank god. I know he could tell I wouldn't be able to follow through on my threat, but I think I shook him to his core. I don't know what happened to him.
    And me? I went home, and shut down. I entered a total depression for the next 10 months, even stopped going to school after a couple weeks, ended when my mom threw me out into the streets and I had to find someone to take me in.
    I simply...couldn't handle the Se. I couldn't handle my life being in danger, and it was that incident that really brought home to me how easily I could die by just leaving the house. So I didn't. I know it wasn't rational, but I did it anyway.

    Another Se story. I remember after my stepfather was out of the picture and I went into foster care, there was this boy at the bus stop that liked to bully kids. He was a typical Middle school pre-gangbanger kind of kid. I remember one time he decided him and his two buddies needed to knock me around for awhile. So I stood there and questioned why he was doing this. He popped me in the mouth, and I fell back into these shrubs behind me that I had put at my back. I knew that bush was springy, so I let it bounce me back to my feet. Then his buddies stepped forward, so I taunted him about needing three boys to pick on one kid that doesn't even fight back. We went back and forth like this for awhile. He'd smack me, I'd bounce up and keep on subtly nudging and degrading him. Eventually he got tired of it, although one of his punches put a tooth chip through my cheek. Three weeks later, he wasn't in charge of his gang anymore. I knew that all I had to do was remove his support, and he wouldn't inflict major harm on me. I'd learned that from reading fantasy fiction on battles and stuff. Salt the earth, destroy the enemies support structure, other stuff like that. It is amazing what you learn when you just pay attention.

    I have strong Fe, sure; it has saved my life. But I don't have 4D Fe; I don't see how these processes develop over time. I intuit how things change over time. My ability to know when to act for maximum effect has saved my ass much more than my ability to talk....and my ability to talk has replaced my ability to be tough, such as in my above examples. So you decide: Do you think IEI, or EIE? Can you even tell with this kind of background? I mean, most IEIs would be crushed....but to be fair....I was. Only my kind and loving grandma and an environment of safety for 8 solid years enabled me to regain myself. I was a burden on her for like 2 years before I even revived enough to get some kind of income. Things just...they got worse and worse and worse until I got OUT of those areas. I don't think I would have survived to adulthood without help.


    Side notes:
    Also, this may sound like bragging, but in 4th grade my tested IQ was 132. I haven't had it tested as an adult, but I am pretty sure I am a genius. I also identify as having a strong type 5 Enneagram fix. My MBTI dichotomy test is down the middle for F and T with very slight F preference (which was shocking, since I spent the majority of life convinced I am a thinker). I very much identify with Ti HA.

    I also was pushed into academic success by my mother. I am pretty sure she is SLI. I didn't exactly resist, so I have learned a lot more than I would have otherwise. I prefer spending most of my time playing video games or studying in a more...leisurely....fashion.

    All told, I don't think I am a typical IEI, but I am pretty sure I am an IEI by all the studying and reflection that I have done. However, I do have a questionnaire posted up in the forum if you'd like to take a look over it.

  9. #28

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix Wulfheart View Post
    I called him out in Beta Quadra thread (I think it was that thread). It was the thing I apologized for not long after. Basically, I said I didn't think his typing methods were allowing for other perspectives on what a given line of text could mean. He wasn't, really, but he came across that way to me so I disagreed with him. I would personally say the limit of my confronting people is boundary setting unless I am in actual danger.
    Lol that there is outright Ne valuing. I wouldn't really call it the Se type of confrontation, what you were doing there.

    Will look at the rest later.
    Kintsugi thanked this post.

  10. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by myst91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix Wulfheart View Post
    I called him out in Beta Quadra thread (I think it was that thread). It was the thing I apologized for not long after. Basically, I said I didn't think his typing methods were allowing for other perspectives on what a given line of text could mean. He wasn't, really, but he came across that way to me so I disagreed with him. I would personally say the limit of my confronting people is boundary setting unless I am in actual danger.
    Lol that there is outright Ne valuing. I wouldn't really call it the Se type of confrontation, what you were doing there.

    Will look at the rest later.
    Yes, I agree once again!

    Wanting to consider other perspectives is very Ne.
    Kintsugi and myst91 thanked this post.

  11. #30
    Unknown

    @ShieldMaiden @myst91

    I agree. My bets on EII for now.
    myst91 and SheWolf thanked this post.


     
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