[PeacePassion]

I kinda roll my answers/thoughts all into one big pile of words, here, so, um, bear with me
[disclaimer - I'm certainly no guru on the subject and am speaking solely from my own experience (plus those with whom I have come in contact whilst on my "journey to recovery") (from depression, anxiety, and an eating disorder)]

I don't know if the INFP is more prone to BPD than the others; I wouldn't think so. Perhaps the NFs as a whole - that I could see. But then the "equation" becomes even more shaky when we look at how personality types seem to change (I read that Jung considered personality type to remain the same, from birth, but with all those - even here on this forum - that attest to a change in their personality, even once in adulthood - I think we have to consider outside forces such as environment and upbringing as determining factors as well.)

PDs are "patterns of maladaptive behavior." That, to me, signifies an angst within that person, a conflict - whether it be because of their environment (current or past) or some kind of conflict (imaged or real) either within themselves or within the company they keep... maladaptive behavior seems to have to be in response to something. In simple English, eh, it needs a direct object. (which later can disappear or turn into an indirect object. Okay, that was vague and obtuse.) In that case, I think it makes sense to say that PDs don't just "happen" because you're predisposed to them. Someone could be predisposed but never be "triggered" off the edge, so to speak. Something has to snap. That which CAUSES the PD is the original direct object.

This really depends on the person, their determination to get better, and really, the faith others have in them (what psychology terms "support system")... and as well, their ongoing environment. It's amazing what the human mind can handle - what it can get through - and still come out on top.

It was a HUGE HUGE HUGE eye opener for me, to realize this... somewhere along the way, I realized these defense mechanisms did NOT define me; I was giving them power by letting them continue, and actually, by trying to keep them, I was making them seem bigger and more powerful/effective than they actually were. What I can't say is if this is true for the BPDs. When we thought I was BPD, I did a lot of digging on the internet, and what I came up with was a horrifying slew of disgust, anger, pain - all directed at those WITH BPD. To me, it just didn't seem fair. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

Ahhh... negative stereotypes. :bored: One of the theories that I think about off and on is the chance that our society has created BPD and the other miscellaneous negative stereotypes/images. What do you think? I mean, what with the speed of living, the pressures of x, y, z (media, body image, "fitting in", getting your degree, - all the focus on money and success and worldliness)... it's not impossible to imagine certain personalities simply caving under the pressure. Case scenario: someone, with the inherent personality of INFP, goes through the following:
- pressure from parents and teachers to be more "extroverted"
- pressure from peers to stop acting a certain way ("get your nose out of your book" - "live a little")
The INFP is basically being forced to change his/her personality. Then, on top of it, he never has time to himself, or there's very little time for him to defog/space out (TV always on, radio blaring, constant stimulation)...
How does the INFP cope? ~ I think you phrased it very well, in saying that the INFP can go through what appears to be BPD...
I can't help but wonder sometimes, if all the cases of BPD are simply STUCK ways of coping. Once within those behaviors, it's very hard for the person to recollect WHO they are, HOW they used to cope, and WHERE they are going from here. And there's really very little in society that will help them calm down, reflect, recollect, and - truly the crux of the matter - accept themselves. The way things are today, where's a person going to find the courage to stand up against the stream? When they've buckled all their life? They really need advocates, I think. Which makes me even more upset to see that there are entire forums dedicated to helping people live with people with BPD. It's not to be lived with... it's to be loved... okay, it's not that simple, but maybe - I hope - I'm making a little sense.

I could continue, but I'm afraid it's all coming out mumbo-jumbo - you know, it can seem SO clear when it's thoughts-in-the-head, but once in print, all over the place! :tongue:

Oh, and as for my struggles: they led me here. Honestly. Discovering my personality was the last piece of the puzzle... I accepted who I am, and ta-da!, here I be. roud:

hey again thanks so much for your reply! i have a lot to add, i'll have to come back tonight to it (i should be packing, my moving ride is gonna be here any minute lol)! real quick though that was one of the hardest things to realize, that though isolated behaviors or incidents or "tactics" of the disorder, or of the person with the disorder, resembled something a "normal" (terrible word i know) person might do at a low point or in response to trauma, a PD is like, a whole different case. and it's so hard to comprehend, because it's not like a mirror that broke and simply needs the pieces put back together again, but it's like a whole fun house full of warped mirrors broke, and a random selection of pieces were half hazardly thrown together.... the result is something totally warped, and it's set up like that, so you never know which broken, warped piece of mirror you're looking into... and ultimately it's like there's no one there! that's the hardest part to comprehend! i'm not sure it's even comprehendable unless you have the unfortunate experience of being really close to someone who suffers from the disorder.

and believe me, as much as you want and try to love someone with BPD, they will simply torture you. it's really pure torture. those forums helped me so much actually, those support forums for people who live with or are recovering from a relationship with someone with BPD, i didn't get around to trying to understand what had happened until it was over, but it was so incredibly helpful those forums... anyway, and again, believe me i have a ton of compassion for people who suffer from it, having witnessed it first hand, at the same time, i have no illusions. believe me, i really really tried. anyway, thanks again for your thoughts on the subject! i've put it past me to a large extent, but it bothers me when it comes up in relation to INFP-ness, for me it's like "wait a minute, no no no no no ....!" i mean, whether it's connected or not, it's definitely a completely different monster!

 

[pianopraze]

Problems with psychology:

1. Most psychologists go into field because they have problems.
2. The diagnosis book DSM was overseen by CIA MK-ULTRA perpetrator Ewen Cameron who was at the time head of the American APA, Canadian, and World Psychiatric associations. Out of court settlements in the millions were given to innocent victims who were experimented on without their knowledge or consent.
3. The diagnosis book bases its diagnoses on sociological [I.E. social norms] criteria... so INFPs who are 1% will always be considered abnormal or diagnosable in some way. E.G. until 1974 homosexuality was considered a disorder.
4. It is full of conflict of interest with drug companies by their own admission. quote:

It has also been suggested that the apparent reductionism of the DSM, as well as its substantial expansions, are representative of an increasing medicalization of human nature, a result of disease mongering by drug companies, whose influence on psychiatry has dramatically grown in recent decades.[45] Of the authors who selected and defined the DSM-IV psychiatric disorders, roughly half had had a financial relationships with the pharmaceutical industry at one time, raising the prospect of a direct conflict of interest.[46] In 2008, then American Psychiatric Association President Steven Sharfstein released a statement in which he conceded that psychiatrists had "allowed the biopsychosocial model to become the bio-bio-bio model".[47]

and that is just off the top of my head.

 

[principii]

so INFPs who are 1% will always be considered abnormal or diagnosable in some way.

This is EXACTLY what happened to me. I fell into their "trap" of "labeling" - and I mean EVERYTHING. For one, I grew up thinking I was weird (b/c I was "different"), then I snapped, fell into an eating disorder, and even then, in recovery, I STILL felt "different" than the other girls/guys in recovery. So I made the mistake of agreeing with "them" - there MUST be something ELSE wrong with me. Ugh.

Then I took a little personality quiz... and yup, INFP. In fact, I was so flabbergasted that the traits assigned to that personality weren't faults or "something wrong (with me)" that it took me almost a WEEK to get over the reeling-feeling. You mean... I'm NORMAL? (well, as normal as INFP can get, anyway! :tongue Ever since then, I have been SO MUCH BETTER. Suddenly, the desperation (to fit in, to get better - from what? who knew, to try harder, to BE better, etc etc etc) it all - fizzled out.

And the irony is... after ALL that treatment, my personality - survived. LOL. I'm so glad, really. Maybe it's not easy being 1%, but somebody's gotta do it, eh?


I think I love you guys... :blushed:

 

[pianopraze]

love you guys... :blushed:

 

[thehigher]

Kick ass



~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[amanda32]

I think most family and friends view me the following way:

*brave (but this is only because I'm an ESL teacher who travels and teaches in different countries)
*creative
*"nice" -- beginning to hate that word

And yes, they think I'm child like and without a backbone because I HATE conflict. What they don't realize is that I just think they aren't worth my time if they're starting arguments and being obtuse so I don't waste any effort on them. And I have to say that traveling and being in a lot of difficult circumstances has really helped me be assertive -- and I like it! People definitly don't walk all over me anymore. I also have become rather vocal in expressing my opinions and feelings. Letting people know exactly what I think and felt when they did "such and such" -- especially with TJ's who are harsh (in my opinion), unfeeling (except when it comes to THEMSELVES) and brusk. However, having said that I've only met one that I know of!! Shouldn't judge all this way, I know.

They find me an excellent confidant, deep, empathetic. Some even find me interesting to talk to. But yes, they think I'm unrealistic -- especially in matters of finding a mate, and idealistic (which they say like it's a bad thing). Always telling me I need to be more "realistic" about life, etc. It really bothers me.

 

[CrusaderOfTheHeart]

I'll chip into this thread.

My experience as an INFP is that most people will not take time to get to know you.They almost invariably have a first impression you're shy, quiet, aloof, stuck up, weird...unfriendly. The few people that have got to know me know that I can be devastatingly funny with just one word or a one liner, but cannot tell stories to save my life and utterly reliable.They still think I'm weird but I guess that's hard to shake off. I'm also considered weak and a pushover.I once had a short lived romance where the girl got pissed off because I was not interested - I was, but typically not showing it, as I'm not easily impressed.
As a matter of interest I have had 2 interviews recently and have been asked to describe myself, I have mentioned taking the Myers Briggs test several times with it showing myself as Introverted which they seem surprised with. Maybe it's because I am putting more attention to how I am perceived, or the INFPs work better 1 to 1.
Oh I've also been told I ask too many questions and that I'm too pushy.
Add lazy, boring, predictable...useless

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think I know how the world views me. I am perceived as weak, timid, shy, slightly inferior/childlike/dependent, intelligent, but usually not quite enough to make up for being weird, naive, and socially awkward. My idealism is usually mistaken for immaturity, but people respect me as a musician and an artist. They think I use big words, so there must be someone home in my head, but they view it as an abstract, impractical kind of awareness. The perception that I am weak probably stems from a failure to recognize the true strength of my integrity. What I mean is that my not fighting back, and my being intentionally vulnerable, aren't properly understood as acts of courage. Unwillingness is mistaken for inability. I think I also accidentally come across as judgmental because of how intensely I define myself by my values and how fiercely I promote them.

This is a great description of how I feel the world views INFPs, at least myself. The bolded part makes some interesting points. In this world, not aggressively lashing out registers as weak to some, but they fail to see that it takes sooo much more strength to hold back and take the "high road".

I'm not completely sure I'm an INFP, but I think the world views me, superficially, as a boring, awkward, shy pushover. When people look at me, they probably think I am a very cold and distant person who doesn't want to be approached because I have a somewhat cold look to me, but really I love it when people approach me and I am in fact warm and friendly, I just have lots of trouble initiating things. My better friends know that I am in fact not boring, but quirky, odd, silly, childlike, and sometimes a little crazy. Most people like to view me as an "artist," although I don't like to label myself as that. I am awkward and pretty shy and reserved, though. I can be a pushover, but I don't like being viewed as one because that will just make me want to prove you wrong.
Most people who know me say I'm very nice and pretty harmless.
Some people view me as an innocent person with a good influence on others, some view me as a corrupt person with a bad influence on others. I guess it just depends.

INFPs seem to have layers that must be peeled away. The surface INFP is often like the first bolded part. People see a quiet person who is not revealing much and they attach all kinds of negative meaning to it. Yet, people who know you well see someone that is actually very caring and interesting. I've read about how Fi-dom people wear a public mask that hides their deep feeling, and it rang true for me.

However, I feel like the "nice" tag is a misnomer for all INFPs (or maybe it's just me) because I don't think I seem "nice" to people immediately. My kind, caring side is not apparent off the bat. I'm not "nice", but intensely concerned about the welfare of people in a way that is shown when necessary, not as a pleasant social face. I think "nice" and "polite" makes more sense for an introverted Fe user, like IxFJs. I feel like people sometimes see a gentle, sweet, quiet person who runs late sometimes and tag them as INFP, when they really are not. I like to remind people that many INFPs can unfortunately come off a bit prickly at first.

I think it depends on the context of the encounter and if you are talking first meeting of someone new or after you have seen someone around a while. My struggle is with breaking the ice. If the other person is better at it, then I think they get a very different picture of me than if neither of us seems able to.

I also suspect many people have no idea if they have met an INFP or just someone with an acute personality disorder and assume that must be an INFP. After all it’s not like people walk around with their MB type on a name tag.

Of course for us INFP’s to offer a self-assessment of how the world sees us, doesn’t seem like it would be accurate. I’d like to hear from the other types.

I’ve only met one confirmed INFP in my life, meaning he had also taken the MBPP and knows he is an INFP. I’ve met other people that I suspect are but I don’t know for a fact. He was a co-worker a few years ago. He was actually one of the more popular people in the office and known for being funny. Not stand up comic funny but good at making people laugh. Well it took a while for me to get to know him. (wonder of wonders) Eventually though we became pretty good friends. At first I didn’t see him as aloof, just quit like me. As we got to know each other we found we both share a propensity for one-liners and deep discussions on various topics of the day.

I did learn something important from observing him though. When meeting someone new, it’s important to smile. Simplistic I know, but I think the perception of being aloof is dissipated by doing so. Most of the time I don’t know what to say and so I say nothing, but a friendly smile and node seems to make the difference between coming across as shy vs aloof.

The first bolded part, I agree with, as far as people not being able to spot INFPs easily; except it disturbs me to think that people may associate INFP traits with personality disorders. I think it must be the "artist" tag we get; the stereotypical artist is moody & mentally off, and INFPs are supposedly artists, so therefore.... Um yeah, faulty reasoning! :tongue:

The last bolded part is really true. Facial expression and body language help offset an otherwise quiet demeanor so you don't give the wrong impression.

 

[flyintheointment]

1) I am perceived as weak, timid, shy, slightly inferior/childlike/dependent, intelligent.

2) My idealism is usually mistaken for immaturity.

3) They think I use big words, so there must be someone home in my head, but they view it as an abstract, impractical kind of awareness.

4) . . . my not fighting back, and my being intentionally vulnerable, aren't properly understood as acts of courage.

5) Unwillingness is mistaken for inability.

Completely relate to all the above especially #1 & #4. :happy: If you don't fight back then you are considered weak and lacking in self-confidence, especially if you have a soft voice. Some see it as a challenge or even a sport to see how aggressive or forceful they can be or how much they can intimidate you, before you are bothered or upset by it. If you respond in anger, they are shocked and surprised (and even offended) that you had the . . . to fight back. It's amusing and interesting. When I think about this, it amazes me how clueless people can be.

 

[Psilo]

^ Just reminded me of middle school where the kids would play a game to see who could make me either cry or fight back first and 'win'
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[snail]

That's horrible! :angry: *hugs*

 

[Psilo]

Aww thanks

Kids are cruel sometimes.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Eylrid]

INFPs seem to have layers that must be peeled away.

"INFPs are like onions!" (Sorry, couldn't resist)

I agree with pretty much everything that I have read so far in this thread. I don't have anything to add at this time.

 

[OrangeAppled]

"INFPs are like onions!" (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Yep, and don't be surprised if you start crying as the layers peel off :tongue:

 

[pianopraze]

Let's make guacamole!

 

[Spooky]

Yep, and don't be surprised if you start crying as the layers peel off :tongue:

You're a clever one. :wink:

 

[JojoGopher]

^ Just reminded me of middle school where the kids would play a game to see who could make me either cry or fight back first and 'win'

I guess cruelty is universal. They did the exact same thing to me. Really hurts to have a whole group of people out to get you for no reason other than their own sick entertainment. Yet we survived, and remain true to ourselves. That is what really matters.

 

[xtragurl]

Ahhh... negative stereotypes. :bored: One of the theories that I think about off and on is the chance that our society has created BPD and the other miscellaneous negative stereotypes/images. What do you think? I mean, what with the speed of living, the pressures of x, y, z (media, body image, "fitting in", getting your degree, - all the focus on money and success and worldliness)... it's not impossible to imagine certain personalities simply caving under the pressure. Case scenario: someone, with the inherent personality of INFP, goes through the following:
- pressure from parents and teachers to be more "extroverted"
- pressure from peers to stop acting a certain way ("get your nose out of your book" - "live a little")
The INFP is basically being forced to change his/her personality. Then, on top of it, he never has time to himself, or there's very little time for him to defog/space out (TV always on, radio blaring, constant stimulation)...
How does the INFP cope? ~ I think you phrased it very well, in saying that the INFP can go through what appears to be BPD...
I can't help but wonder sometimes, if all the cases of BPD are simply STUCK ways of coping. Once within those behaviors, it's very hard for the person to recollect WHO they are, HOW they used to cope, and WHERE they are going from here. And there's really very little in society that will help them calm down, reflect, recollect, and - truly the crux of the matter - accept themselves. The way things are today, where's a person going to find the courage to stand up against the stream? When they've buckled all their life? They really need advocates, I think. Which makes me even more upset to see that there are entire forums dedicated to helping people live with people with BPD. It's not to be lived with... it's to be loved... okay, it's not that simple, but maybe - I hope - I'm making a little sense.

You're totally right about this... I'm an INFP and people always think I'm lonely, anti-social, scared.... you name it! The truth is though that since we're so rare, no one has figured out that we just like to avoid conflict and chill out... we like people! The only thing that's different about us in that manner is that we're just very careful around people... once you get to know us well, we're actually social! It's hard to be an INFP in a world of judgement, I also agree that we're always being pushed into changing, very few understand the way we think.

 

[Ben]

INFPs are quirky people. They're daydreamers and really romantic, and often good listeners, although they are sort of flakey and tend to take many things personally.

Someone who didn't know them well would think they're quiet, shy bookworms, somewhat nerdy if they don't know what they read. They would probably think they're perfectionists if they are teamed up with them on a project they are interested in.

 

[NinjaSwan]

I've found that people for the most part view me as quiet, reserved, and crazy. By crazy I mean I have passions that I follow with such a reckless abandon that it freaks them out. Many also find me over-sensitive, which I can understand because my sensitivity can get on my own nerves :bored: I've also been viewed as lazy lately, cuz I just feel emotionally burned out. My motivation is slowly coming back but it has really been shot the last couple of years.

To my friends I'm seen as a great person to talk to and a friend to go to when they are in need of comfort and/or advice. I'm also seen as a completely crazy, kinda out-there person when I allow myself to open up and/or get drunk. lol :tongue: