INTPs and Shadow Functions

BeBrave · Oct 6, 2014

I've been curious lately as to how shadow functions manifest within an INTP's personality. Following is how shadow functions manifest themselves within any personality type. My question is, how do your shadow functions manifest as an INTP?

cognitiveprocesses.com said:
The Shadow Processes
The other four cognitive processes operate more on the boundaries of our awareness. It is as if they are in the shadows and only come forward under certain circumstances. We usually experience these processes in a negative way, yet when we are open to them, they can be quite positive.

The Opposing Role (sometimes referred to as the 5th function)

The opposing role is often how we get stubborn and argumentative—refusing to “play” and join in whatever is going on at the time. It might be easy for us to develop skill in the process that plays this role, but we are likely to be more narrow in our application of this skill, and it will likely take more energy to use it extensively. In its positive aspect, it provides a shadow or depth to our leading role process, backing it up and enabling us to be more persistent in pursuit of our goals.

The Critical Parent Role (sometimes referred to as the 6th function)

The critical parent role is how we find weak spots and can immobilize and demoralize others. We can also feel this way when others use the process that plays this role. It is often used sporadically and emerges more often under stressful conditions when something important is at risk. When we engage it, we can go on and on. To access its positive side of discovery, we must learn to appreciate and be open to it. Then it has an almost magical quality and can provide a profound sense of wisdom.

The Deceiving Role (sometimes referred to as the 7th function)

The deceiving role fools us into thinking something is important to do or pay attention to. The process that fills this role is often not trusted or seen as worthy of attention, for when we do engage it, we may make mistakes in perception or in decision making. Then we feel double bound—trapped between two bad options. Yet this role can have a positive side as it provides comic relief. Then we can laugh at ourselves. It can be refreshing and join with the relief role as we recharge ourselves through play.

The Devilish Role (sometimes referred to as the 8th function)

The devilish role can be quite negative. Using the process that plays this role, we might become destructive of ourselves or others. Actions (or inactions) taken when we engage in the process that plays this role are often regretted later. Usually, we are unaware of how to use the process that fills this role and feel like it just erupts and imposes itself rather unconsciously. Yet when we are open to the process that plays the devilish role, it becomes transformative. It gives us the impetus to create something new—to make lemonade out of lemons, rather than lament their sourness.

An INTP's shadow functions:

According to the INTP Wikipedia page said:
Extraverted thinking (Te): Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence.

Introverted Intuition (Ni): Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.

Extraverted sensing (Se): Se focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.

Introverted feeling (Fi): Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.

So, how do your shadow functions manifest? What kind of behaviour do they lead you into? Any thoughts? Ideas? Theories?

Alfador · Oct 6, 2014

My Se is as highly developed as my Ne. I think it made to a point that it isn't a "shadow function" anymore. As already explained, Se focuses on experiences and sensations of the physical world, taking great pleasure in physical actions. Se is also related to impulsive acting, but I don't relate to any of this, it's all about how you use your function depending on the circumstances.

Since I have some traits of A.D.D, my Se is limited only to certain characteristics of how this function works. I tend to be very oblivious to the "world" itself around me, but I'm very aware of my surroundings; my room, the places I hang out, my friends houses, etc. And I can take great pleasure in physical actions.

I also use my Ne together with my Se to see how can I benefit from certain actions and consider different possibilities to how could I act in specific situations. I don't think Ne contradicts Se, everybody relates to all cognitive functions, it's just a matter of development and how you behave in relation to them.

XZ9 · Oct 6, 2014

INTP's shadow functions are ENTJ's type.

Grandmaster Yoda · Oct 6, 2014

Great_Thinker said:
INTP's shadow functions are ENTJ's type.

Well that explains the existence of Richard Dawkins. Maybe he is so mad at religion for being illogical that he werewolved into an ENTJ and is currently trying to destroy everything that isn't science.

Nordom · Oct 6, 2014

Just some random thoughts on how shadow functions work with INTPs. I don't buy that they only manifest under stress so much as changing gears. Ti is dominant and tough to exhaust so can also be part of the strategy of problem solving.

-Te could manifest when you are 100% convinced you are right and whoever else is wrong and it gets into a stubborn stand off.
-Te could also help with assertiveness and taking chances that aren't necessarily completely thought out (INTPs 8-wing are usually pretty buried as well and 8's tend to be the most assertive).

-Se could be as simple as embracing a new activity outside your normal comfort zone. Maybe you want to learn yoga to help you relax. Maybe, you decide to start a new diet or exercise regimen.
-Negatively, it could be a physical reaction to bad news or a threat.

-Fi could be a complete wardrobe change, or taking on a new political stance, or becoming an activist

-Ni could be going with your gut reaction instead of your head or heart, or trying to look at something from a completely different angle.

Fredward · Oct 6, 2014

Great_Thinker said:
INTP's shadow functions are ENTJ's type.

That... explains a lot actually.

Inheritance · Oct 6, 2014

Isn't shadow functions just flipping your congitive order? Ti, Ne, Si, Fe --> Fe, Si, Ne, Ti ?
That's at least what I thought based on my own research.

RoSoDude · Oct 6, 2014

Inheritance said:
Isn't shadow functions just flipping your congitive order? Ti, Ne, Si, Fe --> Fe, Si, Ne, Ti ?
That's at least what I thought based on my own research.

Uhh, nope. Shadow functions essentially always refer to those non-preferred functions -- in the INTP's case these are Te, Ni, Se, and Fi, in order of decreasing preference. The questions is always to what extent these are actually present in each type's personality, or whether they have any significant influence at all.

I have always accepted the Socionics school of thought on the issue, which is that information related to all 8 functions can in some sense be said to exist "objectively", and each type has a certain relationship to each type of information. In this theory, INTPs are strong with Ti, Ne, Te, and Ni, but they prefer Ti and Ne and find Te and Ni to be superfluous and generally not worthy of consideration. By contrast, INTPs are weak with Si, Fe, Se, and Fi, but have a preference for Si and Fe, generally finding Se and Fi to be discomforting and creating feelings of insecurity and low self-worth. Minor differences in particular orientations describe the differences between INTPs and ENTPs despite their valuation and aptitude for the same functions in each category.

What this means to me is that one does not "use" their shadow functions. I've always found that idea silly. What's the point of coming up with this theory about each type's differences in interaction with these functions if the end result is all of us being the same anyway? I think the more appropriate view is that one can improve how one handles the "shadow functions", but should recognize that it pertains to a different sort of information that one might not find easy to handle or even desirable to deal with. I know I personally have a ton of issues with Fi and Se types and information (the former of which I can find somewhat annoying and the latter of which terrify me). I can improve in how I deal with these things, and recognize my biases there, but I don't think it's really possible to attain healthy and positive "use" of these functions. It's more something to work around and come to terms with.

Himistu · Oct 7, 2014

Code:

class SceneNode
{
Mesh mesh;
VideoDriver driver;

public:

void render() {
Mesh m = createShadow();
driver->drawMesh(mesh);
driver->drawMesh(m);
}

// Behold - Shadow functions!

Mesh createShadow() {
Mesh m = createMeshClone();
m.setMaterial( EShadingMat::ESMOpaque );
m.setEmissiveColor( 0 );
m.setAmbientColor( 0 );
m.setDiffuseColor( 0 );
return m;
}

void setShadowPositionOffset( Mesh& m ) {
Position p = driver->getLightSource(0).position;
m.position = (2*mesh.position - p);
}

};

BeBrave · Oct 7, 2014

Very well said, @RoSoDude.
@Himistu, what exactly is the code you posted meant to be?

Inheritance · Oct 7, 2014

I see, thanks.
I've heard the ESTJ is an INFP's shadow type, but would that make "ENFJ" our shadow type instead?

Nordom · Oct 7, 2014

RoSoDude said:
Uhh, nope. Shadow functions essentially always refer to those non-preferred functions -- in the INTP's case these are Te, Ni, Se, and Fi, in order of decreasing preference. The questions is always to what extent these are actually present in each type's personality, or whether they have any significant influence at all.

I have always accepted the Socionics school of thought on the issue, which is that information related to all 8 functions can in some sense be said to exist "objectively", and each type has a certain relationship to each type of information. In this theory, INTPs are strong with Ti, Ne, Te, and Ni, but they prefer Ti and Ne and find Te and Ni to be superfluous and generally not worthy of consideration. By contrast, INTPs are weak with Si, Fe, Se, and Fi, but have a preference for Si and Fe, generally finding Se and Fi to be discomforting and creating feelings of insecurity and low self-worth. Minor differences in particular orientations describe the differences between INTPs and ENTPs despite their valuation and aptitude for the same functions in each category.

What this means to me is that one does not "use" their shadow functions. I've always found that idea silly. What's the point of coming up with this theory about each type's differences in interaction with these functions if the end result is all of us being the same anyway? I think the more appropriate view is that one can improve how one handles the "shadow functions", but should recognize that it pertains to a different sort of information that one might not find easy to handle or even desirable to deal with. I know I personally have a ton of issues with Fi and Se types and information (the former of which I can find somewhat annoying and the latter of which terrify me). I can improve in how I deal with these things, and recognize my biases there, but I don't think it's really possible to attain healthy and positive "use" of these functions. It's more something to work around and come to terms with.

Agree 100%. Each function is a preference of one over the other. I think "stressful shadow function mode" comes out when personalities are all or nothing. Even being as objective as possible with self-reporting, you're going to overlook that you do in fact possess some Fi preferences under non-confrontational circumstances.

RoSoDude · Oct 7, 2014

BeBrave said:
Very well said, @RoSoDude.
@Himistu, what exactly is the code you posted meant to be?

It's a function within a class definition in C code that, as far as I can tell, renders a shadow visually. It's a joke on "shadow functions".

Inheritance said:
I see, thanks.
I've heard the ESTJ is an INFP's shadow type, but would that make "ENFJ" our shadow type instead?

Though I'm not sure I've ever heard that, for consistency's sake that would make ESFJ our shadow type. Reverse function order -> Fe Si Ne Ti. I've only ever heard of shadow type as either all of your introversion/extraversion orentiations flipped (Ti Ne Si Fe -> Te Ni Se Fi which is ENTJ) or as all of your function preferences flipped (Ti Ne Si Fe -> Fi Se Ni Te which is ISFP).

There's no well codified terminology in western Jungian Cognitive Function Theory, it's all individual theorists with their own names. I prefer to go by Socionics names, which put INTP and ESFJ, or INFP and ESTJ, for example, as "duals".

grandpa2390 · Oct 8, 2014

I don't know. my Fi is pretty highly developed. i my Ti wasn't just a little higher, I could be an INFP. Here is the way I always understood Shadow Functions. when you are angry, or stressed, or aggravated, the shadow functions come to light. in the case of an INTP, under stress we become ENTJ based on what I have read and understood. this makes sense as I do exhibit leadership and work ethic when I have finally "had enough". and so forth.

zeelf · Oct 8, 2014

grandpa2390 said:
I don't know. my Fi is pretty highly developed. i my Ti wasn't just a little higher, I could be an INFP.

I have a pretty strong Fi too, and I did type as INFP a few times when I first got into MBTI. Damn, they don't call it the demonic function for nothing. I do have a very right/wrong worldview sometimes but it's built on a lot of Ti as well, not just Fi. And I do develop very strong feelings and personal meanings for a very select number of "chosen few" prople and things. But I know I'm not INFP, for a long list of reasons. And this Fi thing is not something I'm comfortable with. It's more like a tumour.

forgotten reason · Oct 8, 2014

---for Te I've noticed that it comes when I have to adapt to a certain line of reasoning that I haven't considered before outloud for someone. Usually I prefer to process and know the information on my own, and sometimes I will even prefer to pause, retreat somewhere to focus on processing the information, and return with an explanation. But if forced I will attempt to use Te step by step in a line of reasoning I'm not familiar with for someone else. It's preferable for me to have a flow of logic rather than to mountain climb to the point I'm trying to make though. I wonder if it gets warped when used ontop of Ti and Ne - it's probably not the same as it would be for normal Te users - besides it being inexperienced.

---Ni I find happens when I'm shocked - something happens that goes against what I expected or how I thought, and then all of a sudden I have to throw something together to explain what happened, but then it will slowly retreat into my normal functions once more sense is made.

---My dissinterest in Se is very clear to me, It is a distraction that really gets in the way sometimes, but I've also learned the importance of receiving nuanced unprocessed information. I don't know how easily I can be forced to have to do this one... I suppose if I'm in a very unrecognizeable place and my usual way of thinking is not helping I will resort to desperately looking around everwhere. Like attempting Ne for a goal and nothing is connecting to what I need. Kind of annoying. It has happened with math sometimes, and everything just becomes all cluttery looking. Subconsciously it tends to make itself clear when reality doesn't jive with what I was thinking, and I end up doing something in a clumsy way.

---Fi.... I suppose this along with my Fe has gotten in the way of me so dramatically sometimes that I've had to learn to allow it to happen but then I snuff out its irrelevance. It feels like someone is attempting to shatter Ti by forcefully reaching me on a personal level and usually it doesn't work. It's weird when it happens and I'm just like wtf go away - this reaction is so stupid stop it, but it still happens. That is not to say Fi can't provide useful input - it has its moments.

grandpa2390 · Oct 8, 2014

zeelf said:
I have a pretty strong Fi too, and I did type as INFP a few times when I first got into MBTI. Damn, they don't call it the demonic function for nothing. I do have a very right/wrong worldview sometimes but it's built on a lot of Ti as well, not just Fi. And I do develop very strong feelings and personal meanings for a very select number of "chosen few" prople and things. But I know I'm not INFP, for a long list of reasons. And this Fi thing is not something I'm comfortable with. It's more like a tumour.

likewise. I have a very strong sense of right/wrong for things. My Fi will give me a right/wrong, and my Ti will justify it if it can. Somethings that doesn't work. somethings I just believe are right or wrong, but if I can justify it with reason, then I'm happier. I also know I am not an INFP simply because I am not an INFP. I do not fit the description.I do have a feeling underneath my exterior.

For Fi being the bane of my existence in the original post. I don't know. I always blamed Fe... but it might be possible that Fi is partly responsible... I don't know.

Lestany · Oct 9, 2014

I'm especially interested in the shadow functions myself. What really draws me in is the idea of the demon (8th)

Fi is truly my personal demon. I started to fight back against it as a teenager, when I realized I could dismantle my feelings by analyzing them and proving to myself they were invalid. I began to see feelings as primitive reactions, a conditioned response that was only good for clouding judgement and creating bias. I despised the sight of others using their personal feelings for judgement, and I abhorred any moment it reared it's ugly head in me.

I didn't know a thing about MyersBriggs or Cognitive Functions back then.

I understand now that I was using Ti to attack Fi (the undeveloped form of it) and developing Ti in the process. As Ti grew to dominance, Fi shrank back into the shadows. It's pretty much dead to me now. I've felt it surge up, maybe three times in the past ten years?

Here's my theory:

It's not possible to develop both Fi and Ti fully as they are in conflict with each other. Likewise for Fe and Te. (I'm not sure about the perceiving functions)

One makes a preference for a certain manner of decision making, and they block out thought that interferes with those choices. To waver back and forth between the two functions suggest lack of a preference, and that neither function is all that developed if the individual doesn't see the value in it to pick one over the other (assuming we choose, maybe the functions choose us?).

This is based on my personal experience, of course, so take it with a grain of salt.

Himistu · Oct 16, 2014

BeBrave said:
Very well said, @RoSoDude.
@Himistu, what exactly is the code you posted meant to be?

Sorry for the delayed response. The code is supposed to be shadow functions, as in the kind used to generate a shadow for a 3D model in computer graphics.

Mair · Oct 16, 2014

In a time of a real crisis, I can be surprisingly decisive and practical, I guess my ENTJ inner self takes over or something like that :tongue:

It's a bit weird how I'm usually so good at handling critical situations while everyone else panics but I'm so impractical and indecisive when it comes to everyday things.

INTPs and Shadow Functions

BeBrave

Alfador

XZ9

Grandmaster Yoda

Nordom

Fredward

Inheritance

RoSoDude

Himistu

BeBrave

Inheritance

Nordom

RoSoDude

grandpa2390

zeelf

forgotten reason

grandpa2390

Lestany

Himistu

Mair

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