In hot pursuit of INFJ woman...

the3rdpower · Jul 31, 2011

I have been reading the threads on "signs an INFJ is interested" and just general INFJ content for a bit. Have a look over and let me know if you find these things important in a males attempt at courting you.

1. Questions...
INFJs are always asking questions so start by establishing that you want to know more about them than they get to know about you in a quicker amount of time... No it's not a race but I tend to believe that INFJs are such good listeners they are often naturally pushed into "counseling role." When the roles are flipped this may at first make them feel odd but it may establish right away that you are interested in them and you are curious.

In regards to answering questions, plan to establish a certain level of information through stories. One of the GREAT missing things in life is mystery. Be a story teller (no... NOT LYING!

) Being elusive may also be a smart idea... INFJs do not need to know EVERYTHING right up front. Not volunteering that information and sticking with being funny and asking questions could possibly drive up a higher level of interest on her part... being elusive but charming is how I usually do things (every person is different.)

2. Patience...
No use in rushing people at the wrong time - I believe that presistance is the key to anything. If you want something you have to understand the speed and offer a variety of experiences to alternate the fun factor. This means no stalking... you are a busy guy and although you may analyze their every feature to determining what makes them tick, there's no need to cross boundaries and pursue a female INFJ like a mad man. Calm... patience... persistance.

3. You must follow-through...
Always follow through with a commitment. That's one thing that seems to lose points quickly - it's not following through with what you SAY you are going to do. INFJs are sticklers on being on time for things so always say what time you are going to call (note: not say, "what time would you like me to call...", say, "I am going to call at x:xx)... always call 3-5 minutes late just to build a little bit of anticipation. After a while switch that to 3-5 minutes early... then on time... then maybe 5-10 minutes late sometimes... switch it up all the time but ALWAYS follow through.

3. Suprises...
Dropping suprises consist of providing things that are not expected. A suprise means you do not do it all the time. It means you only do it as a suprise. Finding little things that communicate a feeling or thought but do this sparcely. Showering people with everything (money, time, energy, etc) usually tends to make a person feel like they have nothing to work for. Surpise an INFJ in a pattern that is not traceable. This keeps them guessing... a flower this week... out of the blue maybe a piece of poetry (4 weeks later in a text.) Again, sparceness and strange NON-TRACKABLE patterns is EXTREMELY important. INFJs appear to be able to remember and connect the dots - one must maintain a level of elusiveness as to patterns to keep the excitement high.

4. Teasing...
Oh yeah - this one is going to get under an INFJs skin - I can already hear the comments flying away! "Teasing!? Teasing sucks... I hate someone to point out a flaw or tease me..." That's wrong - you don't hate it when it's a very cute tease. Me personally - I may ask you what is your favorite Disney princess and you may say Sleeping Beauty so guess what your name is for the rest of the date? "Sleeping Beauty" and I'll make to make sarcastic quibs about falling asleep during our date...

5. Chivalry
Chilvary is a lost art... Here's some ideas of chilvery:
* It may seem strange at first but... never let a woman touch a door knob... always get there first. Open the car door and not only help her get in... BUCKLE HER SEAT BELT... yes - you heard me right - buckle it for her and then close the door asking first, "make sure your finger is in the door so I can slam them in as well..." I personally believe one should go overboard on this one. Women like to feel safe.

Walk on the street side if you are walking down the street. Change positions to the street side everytime and sooner or later she is going to ask you why you do this... tell her it's to keep her protected if a car should jump the curb. Then say something like..."yeah you are KINDA special..."

That's all I have now... just curious if I am on point here. I appreciate any and all kinds of feedback.

(Pardon grammatical errors... I may get back to it one day...)

SassyPJs24 · Jul 31, 2011

You sound on point to me. Actually, it's a little scary how the above would woo me, especially 3 (suprises, gifts) and 5. I have no problem with teasing, I tease too.

A note on the first number 3 (hehe), follow-through... it IS really important. I tend to interpret lateness, silence, a cancellation that has bad timing, etc. as signs I'm going to get hurt, and I pull away or force a reaction. If I knew a guy was calling five minutes late on purpose, or mixing it up on purpose, I'd get a little frustrated.

Actually, if I knew he was cooking up a recipe on exactly how to woo me, I'd get frustrated. On one hand it's cute, on the other hand, it's trying to put me into a formula, and I'm not a formula -- I'm me!

Remember that INFJ's are, in general, just extremely intuitive. She can probably see exactly what you're trying to do, and it will look cartoony and forced if it doesn't come naturally or come from the heart. So make sure your motives are in the right place. And good luck

The Proof · Sep 1, 2011

SassyPJs24 said:
Remember that INFJ's are, in general, just extremely intuitive. She can probably see exactly what you're trying to do, and it will look cartoony and forced if it doesn't come naturally or come from the heart

or she can imagine and invent things she doesn't like about you and never answer your calls even though she asked you to call

duh

rubelin · Jul 31, 2011

INFJs hate inauthenticity and contrivance, so just the fact that you are purposefully creating scenarios that don't come authentically to you (calling late on purpose, etc) would make me smell something was up. Authentic surprises show you're thinking of them, planning for them is just manipulating their feelings.

I would smack someone who tried to buckle my seatbelt for me. Helping is cool, being polite is awesome, but we are used to taking care of ourselves and do not need to be coddled - too much "chivalry" can be creepy.

Ask a girl what time works for them to talk on the phone - it's rude to just tell them when you're gonna call, as if you expect them to jump to your bidding.

We like to know where we stand, so be open about what you think and feel. You don't need any tricks to woo someone who you have an authentic connection with.

cosmia · Jul 31, 2011

Sounds like it'd work for me. The only thing I have a problem with is the guy buckling my seatbelt - what?! I am not a child. I appreciate chivalry, like opening doors, pulling out chairs, but the seatbelt thing is a little too close to babying me and I don't want that.

I don't think #4 would get under my skin actually! If the teasing is light-hearted and not mean-spirited, I think it's adorable and I like the attention. My friend and I actually talked about this recently about how it's kind of adorable how a guy would find something to pinpoint and sort of mock but also sort of hint that he finds it endearing. At least that's how playful teasing comes across to me.

And I'm going to have to second what @SassyPJs24 said: it has to be genuine or we will notice.

DreamingSoul · Jul 31, 2011

I don't mind a man being a gentlemen, but I'm a big girl. I can buckle my own seat belt and walk to my car on my own. I understand you are trying to make a point plus being nice. I really do applauded you for building this list up. INFJs like to have their space and if you invade our space way too much, we tend to get cranky.

Kaly · Jul 31, 2011

If all guys in my life relayed on these steps you just wrote, I would consider myself one really lucky girl, unfortunately it's quite the opposite... and yes, I can see why they say we are hard to get...

Guy who would act like you described in steps 2, 4 and 5 would definitely go deep under my skin.
Patience is crucial, most guys today want everything immediately, and it's not working with me.
Teasing?? I LOVE teasing, it's my way of telling someone I really like them! Sarcasam, irony, black humor (I can be even a little bit morbid

) work great on me, I like almost brutal teasing, and guy who can keep up with that is my sort of guy!
I love to laugh and make other people laugh!

Chivalry - no words can describe how much I appreciate gentlemen, they always get different treatment from me after I found out that they know how to behave.
Everything is great accept the seat belt, I would feel like a child and it would be weird.

And about the calling part, I hate games, and this sounds too calculating, I would pull back immediately.

Everything else... WOW, just wow, scary how this would work for me... :O

Oh yes, the more I am positive of the guy's true feelings for me, the more I start to open up and let him in.
If I smell some games or if I have to question whether he has true interest in me I run away. I only say this because I know games do work for some girls who like excitment of wondering... I hate that.

musician gal · Jul 31, 2011

you misunderstood follow through. when I wrote about that in one of the threads I meant this....that I hate it when guys say that they are going to do x,y, and z for me. -Not because I'm miss independent and want to do everything for myself......but I see very little behavior to back up the talk. -I also hate it when guys are extreme and say, "I love you. I can see myself married to you" when they barely know me....and how they want to do things for me, like change my flat or something they know that I am not skilled in....yet when I need that guy....is he there? -nope, a random stranger is the one that's there or I end up doing x,y,z myself. -I know that ya'll tend to get excited and see a lot of ideas and possibilities, but I don't need a lot of BS to sway me to like a guy. -I'd rather he slow down in that area.....and be the type to show me through his behavior instead of his many, many words that exhaust me....that he's going to be reliable and loyal. -another example, is when a guy says, "oh, I'm not a player! I'm very loyal" and then on a date don't look at you cuz they're too busy "hunting" and roaming for more game to bag. -Behavior and follow through is highly important to me. -If I see the man is full of hot air.....I sail on....

I don't agree with the whole "call later" and stay busy. -that's a bunch of games that immediately turns me off. I don't have time for games.....every guy that has tried to play games or tried to make me jealous has always lost me immediately with that sort of crap.

-I do like the manners and chivalry! kudos on that!

-teasing: I have lots of guys tease me. -it's how it's done....if it's done in a way to belittle me and make yourself feel better, for example: make fun of my appearance or intelligence.....then I'm gone. -but if it's done in a way to play and flirt....I like it and tend to tease back.

(EDIT)-you misunderstood about me hating to be used as a counselor. what I meant is getting dumped on by a guy about his ex-girlfriend or ex-wife and his family and talking about it daily.....he'll say it's so I know more about him....but I know it's lack of closure for him and major issues.....everyone has baggage, but it's obviously not dealt with and he doesn't want to pay to see a licensed counselor....or want the stigma attached to seeing a counselor.....then finds out I'm an INFJ/great listener who, is studying to become a counselor.....then uses me to dump on about all of his problems and how he needs to be understood and how this and this went wrong with his family and his ex.....I now run from guys like this....cuz it's obvious they are not ready for an INFJ type of a romantic relationship.

-I don't like the idea of questioning me. -every time a guy slams me with questions....I immediately want to know what his motives are and WHY he has to know so much personal damn information about me. -I find it very rude and intrusive. -and feel like I'm being interrogated for a crime that I didn't commit. -also, if I do answer and a guy acts like he doesn't believe me....like I'm lying....it makes me shut down.....if I liked the guy prior to him making me feel like a liar or crazy....I def lost interest at that point and have NO desire to see him again.

thank u for your interest in us, INFJ's

would like to know more about ENTP's....so, you should interject what sort of things that are attractive to ENTP's and things that interest ENTP's as well

also, I feel you should just be open with the girl....no matter what her personality type is. I find it manipulative if a guy reads what I say and apply it to all INFJ women from the threads I've commented on. but if your motives are truly to have a long lasting relationship with an INFJ or whatever....then it's great that you are trying to understand from reading my comments on threads as well as the other INFJ's.....there are a few of us that are very similar...but there are some that are highly different....not all INFJ's are the same....we ARE individuals.

Gaminegirlie · Aug 29, 2011

oooooh girl, you are so on point!

Resolution · Jul 31, 2011

the3rdpower said:
I have been reading the threads on "signs an INFJ is interested" and just general INFJ content for a bit. Have a look over and let me know if you find these things important in a males attempt at courting you.

1. Questions...
INFJs are always asking questions so start by establishing that you want to know more about them than they get to know about you in a quicker amount of time... No it's not a race but I tend to believe that INFJs are such good listeners they are often naturally pushed into "counseling role." When the roles are flipped this may at first make them feel odd but it may establish right away that you are interested in them and you are curious.

In regards to answering questions, plan to establish a certain level of information through stories. One of the GREAT missing things in life is mystery. Be a story teller (no... NOT LYING! ) Being elusive may also be a smart idea... INFJs do not need to know EVERYTHING right up front. Not volunteering that information and sticking with being funny and asking questions could possibly drive up a higher level of interest on her part... being elusive but charming is how I usually do things (every person is different.)

Getting us to talk about ourselves is a good first step, provided you break the bubble of social protocol.

Ask us about our job or major in school (We can detect if a person just wants to make empty conversation) and we will be bored and spout out something that we have memorized. Ask us a true question with genuine curiosity and we will be intrigued, and answer truthfully. We're used to making the conversations about others. When people ask me questions (real questions), I am honored.

In social situations, we use Fe (Social rule-following and memorized responses), but we don't prefer it. We like Ni more. Get us on Ni, and we will be energized.

A well-paid complement is also nice. An interested INFJ who is asked something about themselves, and then paid a complement after their answer will probably smile/blush and seem very thankful. A disinterested INFJ will do a quick "Uhh thanks" and try to play it down and end the conversation.

INFJs look for a few things.

1. Moral quality! (IMPORTANT)
2. Mental depth
3. Intelligence

Moral quality is one of the most important traits. We are like walking emotional detectors, and we can snipe someone with a "bad" emotion from about a mile away. If we sense that someone is greedy, prideful, arrogant, close-minded, etc, we will write that person off. INFJs are very quick to label someone as "bad" and undo-ing such a label is difficult.

Here's a sample conversation between me and a friend:

Friend: What do you think of Fred?
Me: Don't like him.
Friend: But you were talking to him and joking around with him at the party.
Me: Yep.. but he didn't feel right.
Friend: What?
Me: Something was off. I don't like him.

^ Common occurrence

If we sense good qualities (Humility, compassion, patience, wisdom) then we will be drawn like a moth to flame.

2. Patience...
No use in rushing people at the wrong time - I believe that presistance is the key to anything. If you want something you have to understand the speed and offer a variety of experiences to alternate the fun factor. This means no stalking... you are a busy guy and although you may analyze their every feature to determining what makes them tick, there's no need to cross boundaries and pursue a female INFJ like a mad man. Calm... patience... persistance.

Open up to us, engage our Ni, and we will remember you. Invite us to something, and our Fe will make us feel obligated to say yes. Leave the decision in our hands, and there is far less pressure.

4. Teasing...
Oh yeah - this one is going to get under an INFJs skin - I can already hear the comments flying away! "Teasing!? Teasing sucks... I hate someone to point out a flaw or tease me..." That's wrong - you don't hate it when it's a very cute tease. Me personally - I may ask you what is your favorite Disney princess and you may say Sleeping Beauty so guess what your name is for the rest of the date? "Sleeping Beauty" and I'll make to make sarcastic quibs about falling asleep during our date...

Depending on the delivery of a tease it could go horribly wrong, or be taken lightly. INFJs do tend to be of a more serious temperament, however :laughing:

5. Chivalry
Chilvary is a lost art... Here's some ideas of chilvery:
* It may seem strange at first but... never let a woman touch a door knob... always get there first. Open the car door and not only help her get in... BUCKLE HER SEAT BELT... yes - you heard me right - buckle it for her and then close the door asking first, "make sure your finger is in the door so I can slam them in as well..." I personally believe one should go overboard on this one. Women like to feel safe.

Walk on the street side if you are walking down the street. Change positions to the street side everytime and sooner or later she is going to ask you why you do this... tell her it's to keep her protected if a car should jump the curb. Then say something like..."yeah you are KINDA special..."

That's all I have now... just curious if I am on point here. I appreciate any and all kinds of feedback.

(Pardon grammatical errors... I may get back to it one day...)

This might backfire. Many INFJs are fiercely independent.

Buffy · Dec 5, 2012

Btmangan said:
Getting us to talk about ourselves is a good first step, provided you break the bubble of social protocol.

Ask us about our job or major in school (We can detect if a person just wants to make empty conversation) and we will be bored and spout out something that we have memorized. Ask us a true question with genuine curiosity and we will be intrigued, and answer truthfully. We're used to making the conversations about others. When people ask me questions (real questions), I am honored.

In social situations, we use Fe (Social rule-following and memorized responses), but we don't prefer it. We like Ni more. Get us on Ni, and we will be energized.

A well-paid complement is also nice. An interested INFJ who is asked something about themselves, and then paid a complement after their answer will probably smile/blush and seem very thankful. A disinterested INFJ will do a quick "Uhh thanks" and try to play it down and end the conversation.

INFJs look for a few things.

1. Moral quality! (IMPORTANT)
2. Mental depth
3. Intelligence

Moral quality is one of the most important traits. We are like walking emotional detectors, and we can snipe someone with a "bad" emotion from about a mile away. If we sense that someone is greedy, prideful, arrogant, close-minded, etc, we will write that person off. INFJs are very quick to label someone as "bad" and undo-ing such a label is difficult.

Here's a sample conversation between me and a friend:

Friend: What do you think of Fred?
Me: Don't like him.
Friend: But you were talking to him and joking around with him at the party.
Me: Yep.. but he didn't feel right.
Friend: What?
Me: Something was off. I don't like him.

^ Common occurrence

If we sense good qualities (Humility, compassion, patience, wisdom) then we will be drawn like a moth to flame.

Open up to us, engage our Ni, and we will remember you. Invite us to something, and our Fe will make us feel obligated to say yes. Leave the decision in our hands, and there is far less pressure.

Depending on the delivery of a tease it could go horribly wrong, or be taken lightly. INFJs do tend to be of a more serious temperament, however :laughing:

This might backfire. Many INFJs are fiercely independent.

Very nice, @Btmangan, very nice. I agree with all you wrote.

musician gal · Aug 1, 2011

just be careful, just like not all ENTP's are the same.....neither are all INFJ's. -I've read some threads and avoided participating out of thinking they were sooooooo vain and conceited and all about that person, such as video's, pictures, etc. that shows they are really proud of what they look like and about their personality. -I don't think those sorts are true INFJ's....but I could be wrong....they might not be as introverted as me.....they may be closer and boarder on ENFJ.....just something I wanted to throw out there. -So, keep that in mind. but I appreciate your thread and can tell you want to understand.....but treat everyone as an individual.

-So far, the two INFJ's that I felt the most alike to me are two guys not girls! lol. -We are going to have some similar things....and some things that are different.

-Also, I'd find out if an INFJ has consistently typed as an INFJ....if they have not....I don't think they are a true INFJ and are more so the type that they consistently type as.....especially when you see certain things that look more like ENFJ or INFP, etc. -they just may be barely under the Extrovert line, etc. -hope my babbling is making sense

ohTOMICho · Aug 5, 2011

musician gal said:
just be careful, just like not all ENTP's are the same.....neither are all INFJ's. -I've read some threads and avoided participating out of thinking they were sooooooo vain and conceited and all about that person, such as video's, pictures, etc. that shows they are really proud of what they look like and about their personality. -I don't think those sorts are true INFJ's....but I could be wrong....they might not be as introverted as me.....they may be closer and boarder on ENFJ.....just something I wanted to throw out there. -So, keep that in mind. but I appreciate your thread and can tell you want to understand.....but treat everyone as an individual.

-So far, the two INFJ's that I felt the most alike to me are two guys not girls! lol. -We are going to have some similar things....and some things that are different.

-Also, I'd find out if an INFJ has consistently typed as an INFJ....if they have not....I don't think they are a true INFJ and are more so the type that they consistently type as.....especially when you see certain things that look more like ENFJ or INFP, etc. -they just may be barely under the Extrovert line, etc. -hope my babbling is making sense

It's really hard to tell if someone is truly introverted or extroverted through the black prints you see on the screen. INFJs are natural chameleons--I think that is a relevant point.

ForsakenMe · Aug 1, 2011

Hahahaha, I love this!

Number 3... oh god. I hate waiting for people to call me when they say they will. I say, the day I meet a guy who calls when he says he will, right on the dot... I'll immediately daydream about us honeymooning somewhere.

The rest though... would tickle any INFJ girl pink.

INFJs appear to be able to remember and connect the dots - one must maintain a level of elusiveness as to patterns to keep the excitement high.

Oh yes! I connect the dots ALL THE TIME when it comes to people and their actions... I don't know why we do this, but it's too true!

LiteratureNerd · Aug 1, 2011

From my own INFJ woman's standpoint, some of these might work for me, some would definitely not. Counseling role? Yes, I'm often in that role, and I'm used to it. Asking me questions tends to make me a little nervous and feel "put on the spot." If you're just starting to get to know me, ask me specific questions that are easy for me to answer...I'll eventually get braver and feel more comfortable answering the broad, worldly questions.

the3rdpower said:
\
INFJs do not need to know EVERYTHING right up front. Not volunteering that information and sticking with being funny and asking questions could possibly drive up a higher level of interest on her part... being elusive but charming is how I usually do things (every person is different.)

The truth is, I DON'T want to know everything up front. People who tell me everything up front come across as needy and insecure, and I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them. At the same time, I don't trust guys who are deliberately "elusive but charming." Be GENUINE - I don't give a shit about how elusive you try to play it.

Patience is essential, yes.

3. You must follow-through...
Always follow through with a commitment. That's one thing that seems to lose points quickly - it's not following through with what you SAY you are going to do. INFJs are sticklers on being on time for things so always say what time you are going to call (note: not say, "what time would you like me to call...", say, "I am going to call at x:xx)... always call 3-5 minutes late just to build a little bit of anticipation. After a while switch that to 3-5 minutes early... then on time... then maybe 5-10 minutes late sometimes... switch it up all the time but ALWAYS follow through.

I think you're micromanaging this a little bit. Personally, I don't respond to the "anticipation" game.

3. Suprises...
Dropping suprises consist of providing things that are not expected. A suprise means you do not do it all the time. It means you only do it as a suprise. Finding little things that communicate a feeling or thought but do this sparcely. Showering people with everything (money, time, energy, etc) usually tends to make a person feel like they have nothing to work for. Surpise an INFJ in a pattern that is not traceable. This keeps them guessing... a flower this week... out of the blue maybe a piece of poetry (4 weeks later in a text.) Again, sparceness and strange NON-TRACKABLE patterns is EXTREMELY important. INFJs appear to be able to remember and connect the dots - one must maintain a level of elusiveness as to patterns to keep the excitement high.

Non-trackable patterns? For god's sake. Forgive me, but I can spot a mastermind at work pretty easily, even if he doesn't think I can't. None of this sounds sincere or loving - it sounds like player bullshit to me. I like being surprised from time to time with little things like anyone else, but if you're strategically placing cliche surprises in "non-trackable" patterns to try to fool me into thinking you're being spontaneous, I'm going to see that.

Playful teasing? Sure, I'll have fun with that. As long as it isn't anything lame.

Open the car door and not only help her get in... BUCKLE HER SEAT BELT... yes - you heard me right - buckle it for her and then close the door asking first, "make sure your finger is in the door so I can slam them in as well..." I personally believe one should go overboard on this one. Women like to feel safe.

Yes, I like to feel safe. What I do NOT like is feeling like I'm four years old. So, if you try to buckle my seatbelt for me, I will probably punch you in the nads - I'm an adult, and I have thumbs. I appreciate the chivalric, gentlemanly gestures, but don't insult me by trying to "baby" me. It makes me feel like things are not equal between us, and I'm likely to pull away from someone who insists on treating me like a baby. I interpret that as disrepect.

Be genuine, be sincere, and listen to us when we actually do talk. Don't play games, don't plot or mastermind - we can see through that pretty quickly, even if we don't immediately call you out on it.

And here's a huge secret: you can plan when to call 5-10 minutes late, and when to call 5-7 minutes early, and how your'e going to switch it up. You can rehearse playful teasing, you can plan when to "spontaneously" surprise us, and you can plan out cute little remarks about fingers in a car door all you want. None of that bullshit is going to "make" me like you enough to let you get in my pants. I either like you, or I don't. I'm more concerned with who you actually ARE than I am with what you DO. Start with who you are, and then make sure your actions back up your words.

Unless these are just suggestions on how to simply woo an INFJ enough to get into her pants...then, sure, that might work.

Resolution · Aug 1, 2011

LiteratureNerd said:
I'm more concerned with who you actually ARE than I am with what you DO. Start with who you are, and then make sure your actions back up your words.

Gah. This post puts mine to shame.

Literature nailed it here. You can't hide who you are from an INFJ. We will stare directly into your soul with our Ni-Fe, see you for who you are, and we like it or we don't.

If we see goodness and depth in you, then we will be attracted to it. If we see badness, deception, or even sense that you are looking down on us, then the deal is broke.

Goaty · Aug 1, 2011

Umm...sounds like you're on the hunt for an animal, not a person.

Look, if you want to woo an INFJ, be genuine with your intentions. This highly detailed list of methods is too calculated and creepy. Don't try to screw with our heads; that's guaranteed to spook us away.

the3rdpower · Aug 1, 2011

The time you all spent writing these responses is pretty darn cool. Even if to correct my "ill-informed view" it shows just how deep INFJs care about ensuring the respect of their strong and well suited ideals on how relationships and courtships work. Strange enough I do not even think it's necessarily a INFJ thing... it's kind of a general woman thing.

Thanks each one of you for again, for spending the time to respond. These are some of the things that were said that stuck out for me

“Sounds like you are huntingan animal, not a person” - Goaty

“Bereal...” - Several

“Don't play games, don't plot or mastermind - we can seethrough that pretty quickly, even if we don't immediately call you out on it.” - LiteratureNerd

“Don't create strategies - they seem contrive and dishonest to you being you..."- many

"Leave my damn seat belt alone you freak!" – Just about most

“Open up to us, engage our Ni, and we will remember you.” - Btmangan

“I say, the day I meet a guy who calls when he says he will, right on the dot... I'll immediately day dream about us honeymooning” – ForesakenMe

“We are all different – none of us are the same”– musician girl

“I am more interested in whom you are than what you do…” – LiteratureGirl

All these things I shall mull over in my private lair (equipped with beakers,chains, and an Iron Maiden.) While I did find many of the responses entertaining, I hope you'll understand that somepeople work best through roadmaps and planning. It may sound shallow and not "being from the heart" but in reality it is not irrational or shallow in my mind. If I care enough about someone to take the time and energy to understand it means I interested. The analysis part could be easily be conceived as a gross violation of the “moral code”, however, many ENTPs would probably tell you analysis and the numbers game is how things are processed.

I figured that not all people would react to things in the same way but given your feedback I am able to pinpoint some items that are generally a positive consensus. I am also able to pinpoint some other interesting items which may need to be adjusted from an approach perspective. What has caught me as a bit of a surprise,however, (and I know this will sound conceited and rash) is how some respondents really know little about human sexual and attraction. While I do believe INFJs are especially complex, inside every one of them there are triggers that once turned on thereis little or no hope in turning them back off. I believe that INFJs may be more difficult toturn on given their "ability to sense things", however, in no way do I think INFJ females are different from any other females in terms of stimuli response. I also realize INFJs are especially sensitive about being "tricked" and rightfully so... With such caring hearts that run so deep having someone get through your defenses would certainly spell disaster. None of my actions are to tricks.

If anyone is interested in some interesting items on human sexuality check out The Red Queen, Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley

Women get to choose - men get to be chosen - women at the end of the day have thepower Yes... this very much goes against the grain of "equality" in ar elationship fact of the matter is there never has been and never will be arelationship which is based off equality in my mind.

Men and women are looking for the same things - a solid mate, however, I believe that monogamy is a female drive. From a relationship perspective, I believe many men are interested in being with a woman essentially for 3-5 years in hopes of producing offspring (one night stands 2 hours or less.) Further than that there has to be something extremely special. I believe a solid INFJ would possible enable an ENTP like me to get the "something special" part… that is why I am so intrigued.

Someone asked what ENTPs are attracted to... I can't speak for them but I can speak for myself (some may have similiar likes)

· A woman with physical attributes I find appealing… (each man is different)
· A woman with purpose – you know what you want and you know how you are going toget it
· A woman who can go deeper than the basement floor… one who wonders “what’s down there?” and is prepared to claw through the floor boards to find out
· A woman who knows the importance of autonomy (massively large… I run fast fromKlingons!)
· A woman who understands the concepts behind tension and release… in everything…
· A woman who can cook… bonus if she can cook better than me (a way to a man’s heart is through his stomach)
· A woman who has a massive brain that I can suck matter out of…
· A woman who loves ideas loves to explore them

The Beauty pulls me in…The Body is the balancer…The Brains keep me coming back for more…

musician gal · Aug 1, 2011

the3rdpower said:
Thetime you all spent writing these responses is pretty darn cool. Even if tocorrect my "ill-informed view" it shows just how deep INFJs careabout ensuring the respect of their strong and well suited ideals on how relationshipsand courtships work.

Thankseach one of you for again, for spending the time to respond.

Theseare some of the things that were said that stuck out for me

“Sounds like you are huntingan animal, not a person” - Goaty

“Bereal...” - Several

“Don't play games, don't plot or mastermind - we can seethrough that pretty quickly, even if we don't immediately call you out on it.” - LiteratureNerd

“Don'tcreate strategies - they seem contrive and dishonest to you being you..."- many

"Leavemy damn seat belt alone you freak!" – Just about most

“Open up to us, engage our Ni, and we will remember you.” - Btmangan

“I say, the day I meet a guywho calls when he says he will, right on the dot... I'll immediately daydreamabout us honeymooning” – ForesakenMe

“We are all different – none ofus are the same”– musician girl

“I am more interested in whomyou are than what you do…” – LiteratureGirl

Allthese things I shall mull over in my private lair (equipped with beakers,chains, and an Iron Maiden.) While I didfind many of the responses entertaining, I hope you'll understand that somepeople work best through roadmaps and planning. It may sound shallow and not"being from the heart" but in reality it is not irrational or shallowin my mind. If I care enough about someone to take the time and energy tounderstand it means I care a lot. Theanalysis part could be easily be conceived as a gross violation of the “moralcode”, however, many ENTPs would probably tell you analysis and the numbersgame is a favorite pastime.

Ifigured that not all people would react to things in the same way but givenyour feedback I am able to pinpoint some items that are generally a positive consensus.I am also able to pinpoint some other interesting items which may need to beadjusted from an approach perspective. What has caught me as a bit of a surprise,however, (and I know this will sound conceited and rash) is how somerespondents really know little about human sexual and attraction. While I do believe INFJs are especiallycomplex, inside every one of them there are triggers that once turned on thereis little or no hope in turning them back off. I believe that INFJs may be more difficult toturn on given their "ability to sense things", however, in no way doI think INFJ females are different from any other females in terms of stimuliresponse. I also realize INFJs areespecially sensitive about being "tricked" and rightfully so... Withsuch caring hearts that run so deep and pure having someone get your defenseswould certainly spell disaster. None ofmy actions are to trick. Like you donot respond to my texts in a manner I would consider “timely” I may choose to beequally aloof in respects to vetting you out as well.

Arecommendation to a good book about Human Sexuality and Evolution, unsolicitedof course but worth a read if you do like to read...

TheRed Queen, Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature

Womenget to choose - men get to be chosen - women at the end of the day have thepower Yes... this very much goes against the grain of "equality" in arelationship fact of the matter is there never has been and never will be arelationship which is based off equality in my mind.

Menand women are looking for the same things - a solid mate, however, I believethat monogamy is an overriding female drive. From a relationship perspective, Ibelieve many men are interested in being with a woman essentially for 3-5 yearsin hopes of producing offspring (one night stands 2 hours or less.) Further than that there has to be somethingextremely special. I believe a solidINFJ would possible enable an ENTP like me to trade in the player card… that iswhy I am so intrigued personally.

Ican’t speak for all ENTPs but these are the things I find attractive in a woman:

· Awoman with a physical attributes that I find appeasing… (each man is different)

· Awoman with purpose – you know what you want and you know how you are going toget it

· Awoman who can go deeper than the basement floor… one who wonders “what’s down there?” and isprepared to claw through the floor boards to find out

· Awoman who knows the importance of autonomy (massively large… I run fast fromKlingons!)

· Awoman who understands the concepts behind tension and release… in everything…

· Awoman who can cook… bonus if she can cook better than me (a way to a man’sheart is through his stomach)

· Awoman who has a massive brain that I can suck matter out of…

· Awoman who loves ideas loves to explore them

TheBeauty pulls me in…The Body is the balancer…The Brains could keep me locked in…

I get it: you are analyzing and preparing cuz you care.....not to manipulate. that's cool.

-just remember....if you are a player tho.....an INFJ is not going to be the one to do that with.....we are super deep and take sex seriously. -I think of sex as a way to bond even deeper with a man....not to be used as one of many. -So, if you don't think you have the "player" out of your system.....I'd keep dating the superficial types and get it out of your system...cuz INFJ's are able to see that behavior and become closed off....at least I do....and then I will give up and lose hope in that relationship.....I, as an INFJ, tend to want to commit for longer than 3 or 5 years....when I picture a man.....I want to visualize in my mind if he and I could be together forever and be there through thick and thin.....

but thank you for this thread. Good luck in your quest! -I stole your idea and posted one on your forum! So, you can weigh in and give your opinions there

Arclight · Aug 1, 2011

From the Arclight Fact Book.

Engage an INFJ lady on her level.. INFJ ladies love when you can see their soul and invigorate it.
Be intellectual and speak eloquently.
Express your feelings and thoughts with animation. Express your feelings.
Listen with intent and ask questions.
Be passionate about something.. anything.(Especially her)
Be emotionally aware and available.
And most importantly.. Be consistent.
"Consistent" is easy if you are genuine.

the3rdpower · Aug 1, 2011

Love this.

Aizar · Aug 1, 2011

I don't put much into studies about sexual relationships. Everyone is different. Just because certain things occur more often in human populations, doesn't mean I will do it, nor does it mean I will be appreciate being forced into it, or being told I am unnatural for deviating from "the norm".

Intimacy is in getting to know your partner, not what your partner could be like or should be like according to demographics. My piece of advice is not to make assumptions based on type, gender, or what have you. Get to know your woman (or man). THEN make your strategies based on their personal preferences.

The list you made could very well fit a certain INFJ woman like a glove. But to many, it's not personified enough. It misses the mark. And in something as personal as a relationship, I think that's the problem you're running into.

OscarHollywood · Aug 1, 2011

tl:dr

extra words for maximum letter count

ps: i'd also like to highlight, im infact, the square root to the 3rd power. So, interpret that budday

the3rdpower · Aug 1, 2011

That's fine you didn't - it was not meant for you.
ps: no.

bengalcat · Aug 1, 2011

We may need a stickied thread for ENTPs in pursuit of INFJs.

"in no way do I think INFJ females are different from any other females in terms of stimuli response."

"Females". Stimuli response. Wow.

the3rdpower · Aug 1, 2011

Nope. Just looking for constructive feedback. Not interested in anything else at this point.

LiteratureNerd · Aug 1, 2011

Hrm...females...stimulus response.

I won't dispute that behavioral psychology is a huge part of all of this, but this is often where NTs fail and what they fail (or don't care to) understand when it comes to relationships with NFs. We work on a personal level much more than we do on the scientific level.

This means that we prefer to be treated like individuals with individual needs rather than generalized in terms of gender, age, or personality type. NTs often scoff at this, and of course they have a right to their feelings...however, we have a right to ours as well. If we can't meet in the middle between fact and feeling, then there's going to be a problem.

While I did find many of the responses entertaining, I hope you'll understand that some people work best through roadmaps and planning. It may sound shallow and not "being from the heart" but in reality it is not irrational or shallow in my mind

.

I get that. It's when the road maps and planning are based on generalizations that I find it shallow and not "being from the heart." I respond to people who actually make an effort to get to know ME, not my personality type.

I'd recommend you start with a blank slate, and formulate your plan as you get to know a person. Some women might be totally turned on by you buckling their seatbelt for them. The rest of us will be extremely creeped out by it. :laughing:

And I'd also recommend leaving any possible arrogance at the door.

the3rdpower · Aug 1, 2011

LiteratureNerd said:
Hrm...females...stimulus response.

I won't dispute that behavioral psychology is a huge part of all of this, but this is often where NTs fail and what they fail (or don't care to) understand when it comes to relationships with NFs. We work on a personal level much more than we do on the scientific level.

This means that we prefer to be treated like individuals with individual needs rather than generalized in terms of gender, age, or personality type. NTs often scoff at this, and of course they have a right to their feelings...however, we have a right to ours as well. If we can't meet in the middle between fact and feeling, then there's going to be a problem.

.

I get that. It's when the road maps and planning are based on generalizations that I find it shallow and not "being from the heart." I respond to people who actually make an effort to get to know ME, not my personality type.

I'd recommend you start with a blank slate, and formulate your plan as you get to know a person. Some women might be totally turned on by you buckling their seatbelt for them. The rest of us will be extremely creeped out by it. :laughing:

And I'd also recommend leaving any possible arrogance at the door.

I should profess... how my brain analyzes isn't how my actions and intentions work when I am falling in love with someone... just like there are triggers that I believe no woman can turn off... as a man - there's triggers that I cannot turn off as well. It's certainly not a one sided dice. I just painted it that way for the sake of analysis. It may sound a bit Fe'less but it is not - it's only my brain thinking on the subject now... when feelings come into play and I start to fall in love I, personally, have been known to "lose my shit." When that happens some times I will rationalize the hell out of the feeling and lead to the rollercoaster effect because I do not know what to do with it...

Sometimes, however it feels so good and so right I will jump into it and shut the world around me off. Unhealthy as it may seem... For an ENTP falling in love can be one of the most passionate, deeply expressive, and connected experiences.... it's like diving into a pool of cold water after being in an emotional desert.

"Arrogance at the door." That is good advice. I'd be first to say to say as an ENTP that arrogance isn't necessary one of our most prized attribute. It can be wonderful protection but does comes out looking extremely ugly. Each of one of us have our armour however

LiteratureNerd · Aug 1, 2011

That seems a common reaction that ENTPs seem to have with falling in love. The one I dated waffled between being cold, arrogant, and analytical and being freaked out and clingy. It was like he was at war with himself over having strong feelings (whether he ever loved me or not, I don't know...he always skirted the issue). I understand where he was coming from, but his inability to get a grip was a bit contagious, and I wound up losing my grip, too. Toxic all around, really.

Granted, he was very witty and charming at first, and intellectual conversations were exciting and wonderful. I admired him for his quick with and intellect...but after that "I need to get her to like me" period wore off, so did the mask, and good god there was a train wreck underneath. But I think it had more to do with deeper issues than his personality type. It was as if he felt he was the only one who struggled with emotions, or that had issues in relationships...but really, his problems were no different than those of countless other people. Really, nothing he confided to me was anything that nobody had ever thought/felt/suffered before...but it would've killed him if I'd told him that. :laughing:

I'll be honest and admit that I don't quite understand how love and relationships affects the NT mind...the reactions I've commonly seen from them confuse me simply because the things they seem to find to be a big deal are, to me, not a big deal at all. Yes, it's normal to be a bit anxious when falling in love, but it seems to put a lot of NT types into a state of emotional chaos, and I don't quite understand why...I can't quite see it from their perspective no matter how hard I try. It's as if their logical, analytical side is the adult and their emotional side is the child...the former can handle its job, and the latter cannot. But that's only my perception and I'm not too proud to plead ignorance here.

I suppose it's all about balance.

EDIT: And @Arclight is a wise bird. :happy:

Tony Stark · Aug 1, 2011

LiteratureNerd said:
That seems a common reaction that ENTPs seem to have with falling in love. The one I dated waffled between being cold, arrogant, and analytical and being freaked out and clingy. It was like he was at war with himself over having strong feelings (whether he ever loved me or not, I don't know...he always skirted the issue). I understand where he was coming from, but his inability to get a grip was a bit contagious, and I wound up losing my grip, too. Toxic all around, really.

Granted, he was very witty and charming at first, and intellectual conversations were exciting and wonderful. I admired him for his quick with and intellect...but after that "I need to get her to like me" period wore off, so did the mask, and good god there was a train wreck underneath.

Hmmm, well, being an NT, this strikes a chord, but I see it a bit differently from my perspective, at least based on two relationships (none with INFJs).

First, I find any clinginess in myself to be revolting. If someone told me I was, it would likely flip a switch in me and I would get as far away from them for as long as I could to diffuse that notion.

I've been called "detached" and "uncaring" in relationships with NFs. Ironically, they seem to be attracted to this sense of passion they see boiling under the surface of me. It usually catches me off guard because it generally occurs at a point when I think I am expressing passion about as well as I am capable of, and leave it to an NF to draw it out more than usual. By this time, the NF has vacillated between thinking detachment is "hot" and becoming sort of neurotically clingy. Then I have gone into a mode where I do my best to reassure that I care about her very much, but words are not enough, and it really seems to make the situation worse. The NF eventually starts pressing buttons to get "passion" out of me, and an NF can always seem to find them, despite my attempts to act calm and rational at all times. Then I blow up and she is satisfied that I am indeed passionate about her and she is quite surprised how much is really there. It's a very odd dance, and confusing, and for me, addictive.

Here's the Tony Stark factbook on NFs for NTs, which is somewhat contrary to Arclights, but influenced by it nonetheless:

You can't ever express how much she means to you, so don't try to fake it. Stay NT. Just be there for her and love her as best you can.
Be upfront about being relatively unemotional. When she backs you into a corner about being unemotional (and she will), by all means stand your ground if you do care about her but can't express it to satisfy her. She'll at least respect you're genuine. When she then pushes you way over the line, let her have it - paradoxically, she'll feel much better.
Your mind is what she's attracted to - use it and get to know her deeply.
Your rational consistency is your best asset - not very romantic in the short term, but she'll come around to how valuable it is.

Granted, this advice is from relationships that ultimately failed, so take it for what it's worth.

La Belle Dame Sans Merci · Aug 1, 2011

I hate it when my INTJ friend does things like this. Relationships aren't a mathematic equation and you don't need a mathematic formula for how to make a woman attracted to you. I guess the other INFJ's might be into this, but if I found out a man was so formulaic in his concerns for me, I'd be royally pissed. I want the feelings. Not the logic. The genuine feelings underneath it all.

Frenetic Tranquility · Aug 5, 2011

To a T, logic is a feeling in and of itself.

the3rdpower · Aug 2, 2011

doublepost.

Nire · Aug 4, 2011

*ahem* Yes, well...
I think the points are excellent and, I won't lie, they have me really smiling, but everything sincere and in a fitting degree to the particular INFJ woman. You're an N and I think you'll be able to see for the most part.

I also don't think that you mean to put us into a formula but are more or less trying to get your ducks in a row (which I think is perfectly fine and has nothing wrong). I also appreciate you running it by us to make sure that you're on the right track.

the3rdpower · Aug 4, 2011

So are you saying a Irish Coffee Bong is the perfect remedy to sooth your cloudy head and heart?

*chants-drink-drink-drink-drink-drink*

re: post... I can empathize... I'm usually the one pulling teeth though when I want to know someone. I offering candy's treats, and other various offerings then apply the rusty vice grips and pull.

Very interesting about comfort vs logic... thank you.

LiteratureNerd · Aug 4, 2011

I prefer Guinness. On tap, of course. :laughing:

That's how my last boyfriend got me to tell him my favorite sexual position...

And you're welcome.

the3rdpower · Aug 4, 2011

I so hate it when chicks don't take liquid libations... it makes the fun so much more difficult... ahh who am I kidding?

MoonLight · Aug 4, 2011

How an ENTP mind works! That was interesting to read because you took the time to understand how to deal with INFJs, learn and reflect on things about yourself. *thumbs up* :laughing:

Even though we will probably see what you are doing for me I will find it highly entertaining.

I will repeat that being consistent even with time and genuine is the most important.

P.S: Umm please forget the seat belt thing lol to avoid getting slapped. :tongue:

In hot pursuit of INFJ woman...

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