And please explain further after you vote.
Dishonesty/Lying by omission.
Nickel
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To say you wouldn't lie is a lie. Ideally you wouldn't lie; everyone loves honesty, right? (No.) It's difficult to not lie to someone when it's deliberately hurtful. Example: someone asked me if someone else talked bad behind their back. The answer is yes, but what do you say? You could say, "yes." That is the truth. But what are the consequences of these actions? Naturally, people are insecure enough that they ask for the truth and then can't handle it. So you figure out a way to speak the truth by manipulating your words in a certain way, or by omission. Not to mention, unintentional lying is always abundant (how many times have you said, "I'm fine" when you're not?) but I try to be honest without being hurtful. If being hurtful outweighs the actual practicality of honesty (e.g. "yes, she said you were a lying whore.") then I have inclinations to lie.
As lying, I figure, is practical in cases, it is not ideal. Things would be so much easier if every single person was honest right off the bat. But it doesn't work that way, of course, people are just difficult to work with. I would never, though, lie about my own integrity...that is one thing that would not sit well with me.
As lying, I figure, is practical in cases, it is not ideal. Things would be so much easier if every single person was honest right off the bat. But it doesn't work that way, of course, people are just difficult to work with. I would never, though, lie about my own integrity...that is one thing that would not sit well with me.
"I would lie or withhold information to protect someone from getting hurt."
Ideally at best I'll only withhold information, but there are times when if put on the spot I'll lie defensively and usually only realise it afterwards, but when it concerns things like throwing a surprise event or santa etc I'll consciously lie.
Ideally at best I'll only withhold information, but there are times when if put on the spot I'll lie defensively and usually only realise it afterwards, but when it concerns things like throwing a surprise event or santa etc I'll consciously lie.
One could argue that is not as much of a lie as it is speaking in code. Both sides are in on it.
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I would lie to keep someone from getting hurt; I do it all the time. I'm usually dishonest if it's in what I perceive to be someone's best interest. But I don't consider myself to be a dishonest person; I justify it by saying to myself that I'm helping these people. Hopefully it's not something I'm just tricking myself into believing...
I wouldn't intentionally lie to someone if they asked me something. If I thought it would be too painful for them to hear I would explain it gently or omit it if possible. My gf has asked me a couple of times if I could tell she was Bipolar before she told me that she is. I say that I knew something was up. And that I noticed her mood swings because I've been paying attention to her since day one. Truth is I pretty much knew before she said it, but she can't control that some people are smart enough to be able to tell. So I left that part out because it would be cruel to mention it and make her feel like her condition is much more visible then it really is.
I voted for, "I wouldn't lie but I would withhold the truth." Well if possible anyway. Of course I've lied before but I'm not a very good liar and when I do lie I feel so poorly that I never want to do it again. Even over little things. I just can't stomach it.
I am more honest with those who I'm close to and probably brutally so at times : / I disgust myself sometimes. I'm just too comfortable sometimes.
I am more honest with those who I'm close to and probably brutally so at times : / I disgust myself sometimes. I'm just too comfortable sometimes.
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384 Posts
I would rather withhold the truth by keeping my mouth shut than to flat out lie, but I would lie for many reasons including to protect someone.
A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie.
There is only YOUR justification. As soon as you justify it , you are now lying to yourself as well.. and the hole gets deeper.
Some more stuff..
Is lying an instinct?
One of the first conscious things a human knows how to do is lie.
We don't teach our children to lie. They just know how to do it naturally.
There is only YOUR justification. As soon as you justify it , you are now lying to yourself as well.. and the hole gets deeper.
Some more stuff..
Is lying an instinct?
One of the first conscious things a human knows how to do is lie.
We don't teach our children to lie. They just know how to do it naturally.
I generally wouldn't lie or keep something from someone, but if someone is just being rude and mean for no good reason I might not tell the person what was said. I might say that someone was being mean about them or venting or being rude, but I have avoided saying things that would hurt other people. I also sometimes keep it to myself if someone is bothering me when I know it's just me being touchy and the person did nothing wrong. But I hate dishonesty and try to be as honest as possible.
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I've been accused of "dancing around the subject", which I know I have. So, lying by omission, guilty.
It's not something I do consciously, for the most part. My idealistic brain sometimes compartmentalizes and wants to gloss over things. I have the tendency to dissociate, leaving out parts that I probably shouldn't. Like I said, it's not a lie I just tell with my words. It's my mind trying to make things better and then as I am speaking from my brain, the words are just as askew as my thoughts are.
I really don't enjoy lying. I don't like lying for others. If I'm going to be put in a spot where I "have" to lie after something later, for myself or to protect others, I'd rather just skip that part... Don't invite me to do something with you if you are going to ask me to lie to people about it later. It makes me really uncomfortable.
It's not something I do consciously, for the most part. My idealistic brain sometimes compartmentalizes and wants to gloss over things. I have the tendency to dissociate, leaving out parts that I probably shouldn't. Like I said, it's not a lie I just tell with my words. It's my mind trying to make things better and then as I am speaking from my brain, the words are just as askew as my thoughts are.
I really don't enjoy lying. I don't like lying for others. If I'm going to be put in a spot where I "have" to lie after something later, for myself or to protect others, I'd rather just skip that part... Don't invite me to do something with you if you are going to ask me to lie to people about it later. It makes me really uncomfortable.
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309 Posts
Sometimes I find it absolutely necessary to withhold the truth depending on its severity. For some situation, its better to give the truth in small doses or wait for the right time. But I will never utter a falsehood in order to do that. I'll just not answer or deliberately evade the question even if it comes off as being a little rude.
I basically never lie.
That being said, I have no need to if I want to be dishonest or disingenuous. I have a certain amount of skill with words that allows me to manipulate meaning and people's perceptions. I once was on a forum where I had everyone believing that I was a 23 year old teacher from somewhere other than where I actually lived. I never once told a lie. (I wanted them to think I was older than I was since it was a rather intellectual group, mostly adult, and I was 17 and used to being looked down on for it).
I often feel rather guilty about this aspect of myself. Part of me justifies it by saying that I never actually lie, I just lead people to believe what they want to believe. The other part of me says that dishonesty is dishonesty and that manipulation is my own doing.
In the end, I have settled to a somewhat iffy moral code that allows me to do it only if it won't hurt anyone, and will potentially aid someone.
That being said, I have no need to if I want to be dishonest or disingenuous. I have a certain amount of skill with words that allows me to manipulate meaning and people's perceptions. I once was on a forum where I had everyone believing that I was a 23 year old teacher from somewhere other than where I actually lived. I never once told a lie. (I wanted them to think I was older than I was since it was a rather intellectual group, mostly adult, and I was 17 and used to being looked down on for it).
I often feel rather guilty about this aspect of myself. Part of me justifies it by saying that I never actually lie, I just lead people to believe what they want to believe. The other part of me says that dishonesty is dishonesty and that manipulation is my own doing.
In the end, I have settled to a somewhat iffy moral code that allows me to do it only if it won't hurt anyone, and will potentially aid someone.
Is that true though, or do they simply copy what they see and sense in the world around them? Imagine a Lord of the Flies scenario, children being brought up with no outside influences, would they still know how to lie if they've never felt threatened in any way in their lives? I think lying is a defensive behaviour, if someone didn't feel the need to be defensive then they probably wouldn't lie.
While I understand your view that all lying is wrong, I think lying is a huge part of a persons development, it quickly establishes where their personal boundaries are in themselves, and teaches them that poor choices can directly affect them, even if other people aren't aware of the lie.
I just realized I lied when I voted "I wouldn't lie, but I could withhold the truth." Because, I have, of course, lied in my past during the course of my lifetime. It's hard to see that you're not nearly as good as you really want to be.
If someone asks me what I think, or what I feel, I don't think that's something I have ever lied about, because I don't see a need. But, if there is a person, a friend, who asks whether someone else did something or not, I might lie if I feel it's not something they should know. I'd like to be the person who doesn't lie, ever. I can not say that I remember lying to intentionally trick or hurt someone. Still doesn't make it right, though, I know.
If someone asks me what I think, or what I feel, I don't think that's something I have ever lied about, because I don't see a need. But, if there is a person, a friend, who asks whether someone else did something or not, I might lie if I feel it's not something they should know. I'd like to be the person who doesn't lie, ever. I can not say that I remember lying to intentionally trick or hurt someone. Still doesn't make it right, though, I know.
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I try as hard as I can to avoid any outright lying. Usually I just leave things out selectively. And yes, sometimes I do leave those things out to mislead, to lead, or to trick, or to guide, or something manipulative. Its not fun, but sometimes, its necessary.
I don't recall saying all lying is wrong.
I just said a lie is a lie.
Lying is one of people's greatest double standards , and seemingly much so, the INFJ.
There seems to be a non connection in empathy and cutting people some slack.
"But my lie was justified" is the cry. Yet there seems to be a complete breakdown when you are the one being lied to.. Suddenly there is no justification, no good intention, the other is deceptive and manipulative, their lie underhanded.
So now not only do we have a lie, but we also have hypocrisy.
It was easy to predict some of the responses before they were posted.
My hope was, after reading my post , people would be more honest and thus this thread wouldn't be full of people lying while claiming to never lie.
My other hope is.. Is that if people can justify their own lies and cut themselves some slack, that they might be able to cut others some as well. The idea there being, that other people can also make insights and assess things as well as you can.
Moral elitism is ugly.
i think much of the disagreement in the thread is related to the subjective way people define what a lie is. Some interpret it as not telling the truth, while others might define it as saying something that isn't true. These are two different things. And I think another problem with it is that some people will answer this based on their ideal self rather than their actual self. Is there really no situation you can think of in which you wouldn't tell a flat out lie? You'd think with Fe that a lot of social pressure might be something that could influence you to lie.
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