E5 SO/SP vs SP/SO

n2freedom said:

Since it's your thread according to Riso and Hudson:

SELF-PRESERVATION INSTINCT IN THE FIVE

Isolation and Hoarding. In the average range, Self-Preservation Fives attempt to gain independence and separation by reducing their needs. They are highly conscious of the energy expenditures, considering what activities and pursuits they will take on, and questioning whether they will have sufficient internal resources to meet them. If not, activities will be dropped. Self-Preservation Fives also conserve their energy and resource in order to avoid needing others too much, trying to take as little from the environment as possible. Thus, they can be very private and protective of their home and work space.

Self-Preservation Fives are the true loners of the Enneagram, loving solitude and generally avoiding social contact. They feel easily overwhelmed by people, especially in group settings. Although they can be friendly and talkative, they are slow to engage with others and often feel drained by social interactions. They then need time in their home space to recharge their batteries. They can be extremely resentful of having expectations placed on them. Often they will find ways to minimize their needs so that they can live on less money, thus avoiding interference with their independence and privacy. They are also the most emotionally detached variant of Type Five. While they can be warm with friends and intimates, they more generally tend to be emotionally dry and have great difficulty expressing their feelings for others.

In the unhealthy range, Self-P reservations Fives can become eccentric shut-ins, going to great lengths to avoid social contact. Isolation leads to distorted thinking and delusional ideas. They may exhibit paranoid tendencies, especially with the Six-wing.

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SOCIAL INSTINCT IN THE FIVE

The Specialist. In the average range, Scoial Fives engage with others and find a social niche for themselves through their knowledge and skill. They like to see themselves as Masters of Wisdom and want to become indispensable through their particular field of expertise (the only person in the office who knows hot to fix the computer, for example). The most intellectual type of Five, Social Fives are often drawn to academics, science, and other forms of guruhood. They play the social role of the shaman, the wise person who lives at the edge of the tribe and brings back secret knowledge. Social Fives like to talk about weighty topics and complex theories, but they are generally uninterested in social banter. They interact with others by debating ideas, criticizing society, and analyzing trends.

Less healthy Social Fives become unable to relate to others except through the role of their expertise. They use the information they have gathered as bargaining chips, as their way of wielding power. They can become socially ambitious in the sense of wanting to be part of the intellectual or artistic elite. They would prefer not to "waste their time" on those who cannot understand their work.

In the unhealthy range, Social Fives tend to express extreme and provocative ideas. They are often anarchistic and antisocial, heaping derision on the human race, seeing it as nothing more than a ship of fools. They can develop bizarre theories about society or reality but, unlike Self-Preservation Fives, are determined to propound them to others.

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Maybe these descriptions will help you to narrow it down....

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Social/Self-pres

One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn’t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of “people watcher,” but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct’s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.

Self-pres/Social

In the average health range, this instinctual stacking is warm, friendly, and loyal. They need their down time and have no problem spending time alone. They actually value it very much. They feel an energy drain from people’s demands on them. This instinctual stacking is what is described in most Enneagram books. The most notable and potentially frustrating thing about people of this type is the difficulty involved in getting really close to them. While they can usually handle themselves socially, they always hold back when it comes to intensity or intimacy in a relationship which can frustrate a sexual variant type. Others are aware that there is more going on beneath the surface, but it can’t really be accessed. These Fives are masters at minimizing their needs. Even though they shy away from intense personal relationships they often have a lot of intuition about others. Their detached level of personal involvement somehow brings objectivity to their insights. They can be the most practical of the instinctual stackings.

Their issues usually revolve around demands made on their time. This can become problematic in personal relationships. This subtype has an ideal vision of what a close or romantic relationship should be, but given their concerns for protecting their space and time and lacking the instinctual drive of a strong sexual instinct, energy just doesn’t flow in that direction. Because this subtype is good at minimizing their needs they can get along fine with few relationships or without a romantic partner. With the social instinct second in the stacking, they generally do find friends or colleagues and they may even be married, but the need to maintain their own time to pursue their interests is always a point of contention.

n2freedom
madhatter

What do you think of these 2 descriptions of the SO/SP and SP/SO E5? Between the 2 of these, I relate equally to these description

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sp/so

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sp/so strongside (weak soc) - concerned with building and maintaining an orderly home, personal stability, and the protection and nurturing of these life support systems. consequently many strongsiders are concentrated in the small towns and suburban areas where likeminded people support and respect each other's space and privacy. tapping sx/sp gives them a taciturn edge, tending to be social-second in name only; this range is arguably the purest expression of self preservation. their somewhat gruff demeanor can make them quite amusing despite themselves. can occasionally seem sp/sx due to stronger focus on personal items, food, and domestic concerns. the pillar, the accountant, the farmer. martha stewart, julia child, emeril, andy rooney, leona helmsley, jack nicklaus. fictionals: archie bunker, frank barone, hank hill, scrooge, stanley hudson, oscar the grouch.


sp/so builder (midrange) - the most businesslike range of sp/so, and hence all stacks and ranges. trades a degree of self sufficiency to be involved with larger organizations, bringing along their natural propensity for development and management of resources. for example a strongsider may attain financial security for themselves or loved ones, but a midrange builder may enrich an entire team, company, or city on the way. frequently found among entrepreneurs, architects, engineers, bankers, city planners, corporate ceo's, and coaches, as well as proprietors and managers of small businesses. can be difficult for them to relate outside of their primary focus, being more 'locked in' to their stack than the other ranges. as such they are inclined to busy themselves with projects which seem useful to them. the planner, the developer, the executive. donald trump, bill gates, steve ballmer, newt gingrich, larry bird, mike ditka, ann richards, ross perot, john wayne, gerald ford, steve forbes, david stern.
fictionals: lucy van pelt, peter griffin, jean pargeter.


sp/so weakside (strong soc) - draws from so/sx to produce what is overall a lighter, friendlier, and more humor employing style within self pres (though funny through conscious effort and without much irony, unlike strongsiders who are relatively less aware of how they're perceived). can seem more sociable than many so/sp's, and better embodying of a common touch. a notable degree of social consciousness tempers their more private security seeking instinct, so not surprisingly weaksiders can seem soc first, often with a certain generous or self sacrificial quality. the self deprecator, the sidekick, the philanthropist. james dobson, dan rather, david letterman, rush limbaugh, steven spielberg, al franken, don rickles, woody allen, ray romano, michael moore, jerry brown, charles barkley. fictionals: charlie brown, piglet, mr tumnus, threepio.

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so/sp

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so/sp warmside (weak sp) - pulls from sx/so to enhance outer warmth, revving up the soc to where they can pass off as more stereotypically so/sx than many true so/sx's. not surprisingly, many supposed so/sx's are in fact so/sp's of this range. being sx last they tend to relate less through nonverbal expression and more through talking and joking around; but what they lack in subtlety they may make up for in overt conscientiousness, whereas so/sx's tend to be subtle and tactful. the populist, the humorist, the fundraiser. jay leno, arnold schwarzenegger, conan o'brien, "the rock", john mccain, ellen degeneres, george w. bush.

so/sp cordial (midrange) - the classic or 'true' so/sp, not likely to be mistaken for either so/sx nor sp/so. the most wide reaching and moderate of the ranges; friendly but not ingratiating, anchored by a larger sense of community but not at the expense of delicate alliances. more verbal than the formal range but less sociable than warmsiders; have a strong sense of fairness and equality, though an academic or careerist bent may come off as elitist. the journalist, the globalist, the egalitarian. obama, bob costas, mike wallace, al gore, hillary clinton, steve nash.

so/sp formal (strong sp) - pulls from sp/sx for a more self contained style. soc while still primary, is muted; can seem critical and more impersonal than the other ranges. a usual focus on topics, issues, and responsibilities affecting specific levels of society. usually well connected, but in informal settings may let others do most of the talking. can seem self pres at first glance. the pundit, the judge, the commentator. george will, larry king, bill maher, bill o'reilly, helen clark, jesse ventura, margaret thatcher.

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so/sp warmside (weak sp) - pulls from sx/so to enhance outer warmth, revving up the soc to where they can pass off as more stereotypically so/sx than many true so/sx's. not surprisingly, many supposed so/sx's are in fact so/sp's of this range. being sx last they tend to relate less through nonverbal expression and more through talking and joking around; but what they lack in subtlety they may make up for in overt conscientiousness, whereas so/sx's tend to be subtle and tactful. the populist, the humorist, the fundraiser. jay leno, arnold schwarzenegger, conan o'brien, "the rock", john mccain, ellen degeneres, george w. bush.

so/sp cordial (midrange) - the classic or 'true' so/sp, not likely to be mistaken for either so/sx nor sp/so. the most wide reaching and moderate of the ranges; friendly but not ingratiating, anchored by a larger sense of community but not at the expense of delicate alliances. more verbal than the formal range but less sociable than warmsiders; have a strong sense of fairness and equality, though an academic or careerist bent may come off as elitist. the journalist, the globalist, the egalitarian. obama, bob costas, mike wallace, al gore, hillary clinton, steve nash.

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SP types are preoccupied with getting and maintaining physical safety and comfort, which often translates into concerns about food, clothing, money, housing, and physical health. These issue are their main priority, and in pursuing them, other ares of their lives may suffer. This can be observed by what a person first notices upon entering a room....SP types tend to focus on the comfort of the environment. Does the environment support their sens of well-being? They are quick to notice and respond to poor lighting, or uncomfortable chairs, or to be dissatisfied with the room temperature, and they are constantly adjusting these things. They may wonder when their next meal or coffee break will come, worry if there will be enough food, or if it will be the kind they like, or if it will meet their dietary requirements.

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Social instinct is actually something much more fundamental than desiring a social component (desire to socialize, to attend parties, meetings, belong to social groups, and so forth). It is a powerful desire, found in all human beings, to be liked, approved of, and to feel safe with others. People who have a dominant Social instinct are preoccupied with being accepted and necessary in their world. They are concerned with maintaining the sense of value they get from participating in activities with others, be they family, group, community, national, or global activities. Social types like to feel involved, and they enjoy interacting with other for common purposes. On entering a room, Social types would be immediately aware of the power structures and subtle "politics" between the different people and groups. They are subconsciously focused on others' reactions to them--particularly on whether they are being accepted or not. In general, Social types enjoy interacting with people, although ironically, they tend to avoid intimacy.

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n2freedom said:

I'm not sure if the general descriptions in Riso and Hudson will help you to narrow it down or not.... but here we go....

Not sure if this will help (the general descriptions) as Social instinct has quite a distinctive flavor when it comes to type Fives.

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Khys said:

@n2freedom
And actually that did help.

I'm certain now. SO/SP it is.

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Pterodactyl said:

Bill O'Reilly a 5? That's insane, look at the man; he doesn't care about understanding, questioning and analyzing.

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Mizmar said:

They were giving examples of famous people with an so/sp stacking without regard to their enneagram number. Here is the source.

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reletative said:

@n2freedom @madhatter

I'd like to examine this, but I'll put it somewhere on-topic instead of de-railing my own thread.







So I'm trying to figure out which I relate to more, the SO/SP or the SP/SO

I'm definitely a social person. I like being around people. I don't necessarily like close or intimate relationships, but I'm fascinated by the workings of society and how people think. My main interest in life is people and understanding them (although more as objects of study then any other way)

But I also identify with so many traits of SP. I definitely put my own energy first. I hoard my time and my resources.

And I don't identify with anarchy at all, the way Riso and Hudson described unhealthy SO.

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