LIE/ESI the only flawed duality?

Jeremy8419 · Jan 26, 2016

hornet said:
lol why?
Cause I don't live up to you expectations?
Such a lowly manipulative tactic to say that my most valued side is my lowest function
A true delta hard at work trying to sculpt me...
Run and hide before I clip your wings for trying to bind my hands

*Edit:
That is if you are implying that I'm a ESTP...

If you think that I'm a LIE... lol that would be the day...

Anyway I don't trust Delta's at all anymore... (So what you say is filtered carefully)
Subtly trying to snare me to feed their Ne, it is disgusting.
Beta's although annoying at least make it clear when they attack.

It's not an attack to offer someone advice.

Inveniet · Jan 27, 2016

Jeremy8419 said:
It's not an attack to offer someone advice.

Yeah I know right?
Such a paradoxical moral dilemma this one at the surface.
Better just temporarily block you until I've solved this riddle satisfactory.
Saves me much needed mental energy.
Bye for now!

Jeremy8419 · Jan 27, 2016

hornet said:
Yeah I know right?
Such a paradoxical moral dilemma this one at the surface.
Better just temporarily block you until I've solved this riddle satisfactory.
Saves me much needed mental energy.
Bye for now!

Well, we're talking about Fi and your lack-thereof and you're getting pissed... So there you have it.

Inveniet · Jan 27, 2016

Should I look at his post?
Nah...probably implying something mean again to make me continue justifying myself.
Thx though, I now know what buttons my grandmother and grandfather installed in me.
It is going to be a delight uninstalling those buttons.

Freeflowingthoughts · Jan 27, 2016

hornet said:
Should I look at his post?
Nah...probably implying something mean again to make me continue justifying myself.
Thx though, I now know what buttons my grandmother and grandfather installed in me.
It is going to be a delight uninstalling those buttons.

You seem very ESI man. Don't worry about him, it is manipulative tactics. He will always make others doubt themselves. Your writing is beautiful and I can definetely see Ni writing and serious Se. The fact that you're manipulated by Ne means you HAVE to be LSI/ESI, and you're incredibly individualistic.

Inveniet · Jan 27, 2016

Freeflowingthoughts said:
You seem very ESI man. Don't worry about him, it is manipulative tactics. He will always make others doubt themselves. Your writing is beautiful and I can definetely see Ni writing and serious Se. The fact that you're manipulated by Ne means you HAVE to be LSI/ESI, and you're incredibly individualistic.

Thx appreciate the cheer up!
My dad is LSI, so I think I know pretty well how I'd act if I was one of them.
He taught me to program and we had epic Ti vs Te programming style battles.
He wanted efficency, I wanted a result on the other end to use for something.

Freeflowingthoughts · Jan 27, 2016

hornet said:
Thx appreciate the cheer up!
My dad is LSI, so I think I know pretty well how I'd act if I was one of them.
He taught me to program and we had epic Ti vs Te programming style battles.
He wanted efficency, I wanted a result on the other end to use for something.

Lol yeah! LSIs are process oriented so they can fill your head with peripheral bits of knowledge about the computer, whilst not actually teaching what you want. We both share an LSI dad!

Stick with the ESTP/INFJ, ENTJ/ISFP, ESTJ/INFP, and INTP/ESFJ for learning things, they speak your language

ParetoCaretheStare · Jan 27, 2016

Aren't gammas known to be the "swingers" of the quadras in the first place? That's sort of the intuitive feeling I got when reading the descriptions of the categories of social groups interactions. Marriage seems like a Delta or Beta construct, depending on how committed, of course. Lol.

Vermillion · Jan 28, 2016

ParetoCaretheStare said:
Aren't gammas known to be the "swingers" of the quadras in the first place? That's sort of the intuitive feeling I got when reading the descriptions of the categories of social groups interactions. Marriage seems like a Delta or Beta construct, depending on how committed, of course. Lol.

I think any quadra's members can be committed and loyal; they just probably see/express it in different ways.

I'm gamma and I'm 2000% committed to partners, friends, projects, duties, whatever. It's a part of my personal integrity and I would never abandon that.

Inveniet · Jan 28, 2016

Freeflowingthoughts said:
Lol yeah! LSIs are process oriented so they can fill your head with peripheral bits of knowledge about the computer, whilst not actually teaching what you want. We both share an LSI dad!
Stick with the ESTP/INFJ, ENTJ/ISFP, ESTJ/INFP, and INTP/ESFJ for learning things, they speak your language

I see.
When you say speak my language, what are you thinking of then?
I've never seen those types lumped together like that before.

ParetoCaretheStare said:
Aren't gammas known to be the "swingers" of the quadras in the first place? That's sort of the intuitive feeling I got when reading the descriptions of the categories of social groups interactions. Marriage seems like a Delta or Beta construct, depending on how committed, of course. Lol.

Well yeah, I can totally see the swinger potential in myself and other Gammas.
Yet all types can run around being loose.
My worry isn't so much that any LIE will leave me, I can handle that.
But that they will take all my stuff and then leave me "broke, homeless and with 4 kids to take care of"
as she put it so nicely in that Gamma article.
But yeah I think the marriage is the problem too, it is an artifact designed for other means and ends.
Screwing up what would otherwise be a working relationship.
The LIE with inferior Fi struggle to see the wrong in taking my stuff if it is already declared as legaly theirs.
If I never signed away my stuff in the marriage contract in the first place,
then LIEs don't hit me as someone who would steal my stuff without my consent.
My attitude towards LIEs should then always be, this is my stuff and that is your stuff.
If we get kids, raising them is a shared project, but you don't get to own my stuff, just cause we share a project.
We define what our project needs and pool in for that, projects on the side is your problem so don't come to me for funding.
Your projects failed? Go work at Mcdonalds to bootstrap your next bright idea then, don't look to me

Freeflowingthoughts · Jan 28, 2016

hornet said:
I see.
When you say speak my language, what are you thinking of then?
I've never seen those types lumped together like that before.

Lol. I know the whole Ti Te thing. But these types are all lumped together because they're result oriented so they get to the point, and the other types are process oriented, so they're all about the process, every single detail even if it's absolutely useless to what you want to achieve. That's why it's frustrating. Irregardless of Ti/Te. I have no Te whatsoever but IEIs are result oriented. Feel me?

Inveniet · Jan 28, 2016

Freeflowingthoughts said:
Lol. I know the whole Ti Te thing. But these types are all lumped together because they're result oriented so they get to the point, and the other types are process oriented, so they're all about the process, every single detail even if it's absolutely useless to what you want to achieve. That's why it's frustrating. Irregardless of Ti/Te. I have no Te whatsoever but IEIs are result oriented. Feel me?

Yeah it makes perfect sense now!
I'm fully aware of the reinin dicotomies, I just havn't memorized them so I didn't see the pattern.
Thanks for that.

Dragheart Luard · Jan 28, 2016

Freeflowingthoughts said:
Lol. I know the whole Ti Te thing. But these types are all lumped together because they're result oriented so they get to the point, and the other types are process oriented, so they're all about the process, every single detail even if it's absolutely useless to what you want to achieve. That's why it's frustrating. Irregardless of Ti/Te. I have no Te whatsoever but IEIs are result oriented. Feel me?

I have the same issue with result types when I get a task, I feel lost if I don't know the steps well for doing something. Basically I worry that something may go wrong and figuring out which step failed can be a legit pain in the ass. Same thing with getting something to do and no clues of how the hell I can reach the result. However, there's a thing as unrequired details, but those I see as information that don't help me to figure out how to solve a problem.

Also, when I'm in a process I get annoyed when the plans change too quickly, as I need time to adapt to the new task. This is specially grating if I'm busy with a process and my professor says, nope better do this task >_> feels like a waste of time as I can't complete anything.

Kyusaku · Jan 29, 2016

Fried Eggz said:
I have an EIE friend. We are complete opposites. We find each other's personalities to be fascinating and easy to get along with. We can't stay away from each other for long and we have absorbed chunks of each other's personalities. He's given me advice and I've given him advice.

The flaws? Duality needs a close relationship to work. We don't share any interests. We don't share any strengths. We have our priorities in reverse order of each other. There is a natural divide between us that slows down a lot of useful advice. Dealing with 4D Ne is a bit intimidating as well, even if it is suppressed.

In some ways mirror is superior to duality. Friendships form faster, advice is passed faster, interests are similar, strengths are similar.

I don't find mirror relationships to be that great because everything is so similar it is stale. Duality life lessons are harder, sometimes even painful to absorb, but overall their quality is the highest you can find. Once you get attuned to the differences no relationship is as fulfilling.

I would add to the flaws that those differences are often a source for heavy biases, feeling vs thinking, etc, and it's rather common that duals belittle each other. When you look at polls on what's the favorite type of each type is, dual partners come last.

Freeflowingthoughts · Jan 30, 2016

Kyusaku said:
I don't find mirror relationships to be that great because everything is so similar it is stale. Duality life lessons are harder, sometimes even painful to absorb, but overall their quality is the highest you can find. Once you get attuned to the differences no relationship is as fulfilling.

I would add to the flaws that those differences are often a source for heavy biases, feeling vs thinking, etc, and it's rather common that duals belittle each other. When you look at polls on what's the favorite type of each type is, dual partners come last.

Forgive me, but what you said sounded good. I don't know about you, but I freaking love ESTPs. Before I found out about typology at all, I was always drawn in, and fascinated with my dual and they seem to be with me.

The way you talk about duality life lessons, makes me think it could possibly be a conflicter? ISTJ?

Kintsugi · Jan 30, 2016

hornet said:
Should I look at his post?
Nah...probably implying something mean again to make me continue justifying myself.
Thx though, I now know what buttons my grandmother and grandfather installed in me.
It is going to be a delight uninstalling those buttons.

I've also dodged that bullet many-a-time.

Inveniet · Jan 30, 2016

The Perfect Storm said:
I've also dodged that bullet many-a-time.

Can be hard to keep curiosity in check.

Regardless I think that the issue raised in that exchange is a very valid issue.
I've been thinking about how to resolve it and I remember a saying some guy said.
"I'll give you enough rope to hang yourself with."
The meaning being that when you get advice from someone you don't know the intention of,
you can just stay uncommitted until they either hang themself or prove the worth of their advice.
It also I think highlights why people are hesitant to take advice,
you never know the motive of the person giving it, might be led straight into a trap.
So advice don't have to be an attack, but it sure as hell can be if the intention behind the advice is to control you.

I think the reason I wasn't willing to take that advice was that he wanted to prod me in the direction of
submitting to his version of how to deal with a society that tries to restrain you.
When I didn't want to accept it,
he then seemed to out of the blue make unfounded assumptions about my type.
The advice was the trap and when I refused to walk into it
he tried to push me out of balance to fall into it anyway.
I'm amazed it took me so long to recognize the basic conflicts of interest between the quadras.
Only conflict of interest I got a handle on was with the Beta's,
it always was clear they wanted to dominate me.
Oh well enough of that rant.

Kintsugi · Jan 30, 2016

@hornet

I'm not sure that it's quadra/type related; just someone trying to make you doubt yourself so that you submit to their world-view/perception. It's playing dirty, really.

I'd just ignore it, personally.

Kyusaku · Jan 30, 2016

Freeflowingthoughts said:
Forgive me, but what you said sounded good. I don't know about you, but I freaking love ESTPs. Before I found out about typology at all, I was always drawn in, and fascinated with my dual and they seem to be with me.

The way you talk about duality life lessons, makes me think it could possibly be a conflicter? ISTJ?

I think it depends on the level of closeness, as Fried Eggz said. You can be drawn yet detached from your dual, and not take into account his perspectives and insights. When you do take it into account, it can hurt quite a bit, for different reasons depending on which type you are.

I have several LSI friends, with whom I am close yet at the same time it's a live and let live situation where we are free to be as we are comfortable to be. We appreciate each others presence, but we don't push each other to become better persons. While I met another LSI in which I'm romantically interested, and it's entirely different there. I want to become a better person, push myself. I become aware of my flaws and bullshit and I work very hard to meet higher standards for myself. It hurts, it's difficult, but at the end of the day I grow at such a pace as I have never thought possible before. I've found new heights, new goals, new perspectives.

Inveniet · Jan 30, 2016

The Perfect Storm said:
@hornet

I'm not sure that it's quadra/type related; just someone trying to make you doubt yourself so that you submit to their world-view/perception. It's playing dirty, really.

I'd just ignore it, personally.

Well I would ordinarily, but it sort of ties neatly into the article I linked in the OP.
The topic has captured my attention.
I've studied Jung/Socioncis/Enneagram so deeply,
that when I have a breaktrough like this I can't leave it alone...

LIE/ESI the only flawed duality?

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