INTP brand of ignorance

Boolean11 · Jul 15, 2012

downsowf said:
The title of this should read "INTJ lack of branding" where the OP claims to be asking direct questions when in reality he has posed a bunch of rhetorical questions since he's already made up his mind on a set of assumptions he expects everyone else to adopt.

You mad bro

downsowf · Jul 15, 2012

Boolean11 said:
You mad bro

raging hard on mad bro.

Ista · Jul 15, 2012

This thread is the funniest thing I've seen all day, I hope it doesn't get closed. The INTJ-INTP tug-of-war is always amusing to watch and never fails to bring out the funnies.

I think that an example or ten might give some meaning to this thread. It's difficult to talk in generalities (don't I know it, having tried before to meet a similar reaction). The thing is, talking about this - we're talking about people, hence the subject is, by its nature, subjective. As such, here is my token subjective relation.

The closest happiest relationship I ever had was supposedly with an INTJ (I have huge reservations about that, he was way too smooth with his F, IMHO and was probably an INFJ) He did have that complaint, that I built models internally, over long periods of time. Then, when I'd silently tested it externally eight or ten times I'd come out with the theory. He'd be like wtf, where did that come from?
It took about four or five years for my models to prove themselves.

Another relationship with an ENFP also resulted in the comment on internal theories. However they too proved themselves in time. The observations I gathered, tested, internally filtered and created impressions and predictions on ended up being accurate.

One of my closest friends, an INTJ, he gets very wrapped up in explaining the technicalities of our trip to the moon. I'm like, hold up buddy, we're not going to the moon for another thirty years, and technology might change by then, let's keep the efficiency in check yo. He disregards that I've said anything because that consideration doesn't factor into his framework of explaining the technicalities.

There are times where my observations are not accurate, but that is what the testing is for. There is nothing wrong with building internal models over time, as long as a person doesn't become too attached to them. I think this can happen to both INTPs and INTJs in similar ways. INTPs may risk becoming too attached to internally filtered models, just as INTJs may become attached to objective consideration - that is, of perceived "objectivity" (when in actuality it is a human construct and there are only variations of objectivity).

The world exists with humans in it, I love me some INTJs, largely in my experience because they're straight forward and uncomplicated, though the practical world often has human components that do figure into some equations. Based on the above, this thread may be one.

Brainfreeze_237 · Jul 15, 2012

...and so the Hive Mind reacted.
@Boolean11 The fact that you didn't see this coming points all the more towards what others have already said: this is personal, not an actual question piqued by curiosity. If it were, you'd probably have paid a bit more attention to the wording, structuring it and planning it to get what you want. Strategists, right?

Instead, it looks like an attack on INTP intellect.

You CANNOT be that shortsighted :laughing:

You can't convince me (or several others here, apparently) you didn't see that coming, or would never have fathomed the reaction. Weren't you guys supposed to be the ones who play several steps ahead into the future?

Wait, is that typism? Why yes, it would appear so. Eye for an eye?

Meh. If we must...

note - Personal reaction to thread: YES! THE GAME IS ON!

We should do this more often.

Kiwizoom · Jul 15, 2012

I agree with some of the posters, examples would have helped a lot here to avoid generalizations, cuz it's kind of an 'amirite' post sent to a bunch of INTPs who will be forced to get riled for a dumb reason

Jennywocky · Jul 15, 2012

downsowf said:
The title of this should read "INTJ lack of branding" where the OP claims to be asking direct questions when in reality he has posed a bunch of rhetorical questions since he's already made up his mind on a set of assumptions he expects everyone else to adopt.

Gasp. You mean he's attached to his own set of theories about intps, regardless of evidence?

I also don't much like being stereotyped inside someone else's P-A thread either. Ah well....

intrasearching · Jul 15, 2012

Boolean11 said:
My intention really is to get a new interesting insight on this as opposed to personally retaliative responses (Don't get mad bro, hope the rant entertains you).

The INTP brand of ignorance just beats me. When it happens its incredibly frustrating since they wouldn't be swayed by external judgement at all but instead latch onto the beautiful internal model they grown accustomed to. Do you guys refuse to understand a model you perceive to be illogical if it happens to be different from a competing model you have? What is this drive you guys have for internal order instead of externally validated order? Is it the reason why Niels Bohr and Einstein found each other illogical?

Fe assisting on ignorance
Fe would usually step in when Ti fails as the judgement function .When this happens I've noticed that Fe steps in and erodes any objectivity that was in the argument resorting to ad hominem attacks since they perceive such a person to be an enemy of reason. What I've had from INFJ is that they perceive the feeling they exhibit to be "fact" to say since they are rooted in the objective world; from personal experience this just doesn't work with me at all and I reckon I could never live with Fe's since such a difference is bound to cause conflict.

I'm not sure that I'd reject a new framework or w/e that was more valid/logical/comprehensive or w/e just because it was not what I was already aware of. I think I'd quite like some further clarity; I'd quite like to reform my previous ignorance.

I could be wrong, though. There are times when my Fe comes in and says "Fuck ye, I ain't gon listen to nododa, fuk yewwwwwwww..!" However, if an idea is presented well enough such that it fits in ma brain all logically and shit, I don't think I'd reject it. Just try to help my feeble mind understand and don't be a dick. Then, I will be happy to oblige you and your new information.

Howeva, I am pretty fuckin' ignorant. I think that's for a different reason, though.

A lifetime of general apathy destroys any chance of being a learned individual. I know nofink.

Wizardry · Jul 15, 2012

The INTP brand of ignorance just beats me. When it happens its incredibly frustrating since they wouldn't be swayed by external judgement at all but instead latch onto the beautiful internal model they grown accustomed to. Do you guys refuse to understand a model you perceive to be illogical if it happens to be different from a competing model you have? What is this drive you guys have for internal order instead of externally validated order? Is it the reason why Niels Bohr and Einstein found each other illogical?

Fe assisting on ignorance
Fe would usually step in when Ti fails as the judgement function .When this happens I've noticed that Fe steps in and erodes any objectivity that was in the argument resorting to ad hominem attacks since they perceive such a person to be an enemy of reason. What I've had from INFJ is that they perceive the feeling they exhibit to be "fact" to say since they are rooted in the objective world; from personal experience this just doesn't work with me at all and I reckon I could never live with Fe's since such a difference is bound to cause conflict.

Wait...what? This whole argument is just crap without sharing some actual events with better examples to judge individually.

He is not being passive-aggressive to you guys/gals. You want to see how this works?

Boolean you're a big bag of dicks. <---Direct aggressive.

Now, Boolean is free to make a direct statement against my person. I'm interpreting this as him still being directly aggressive to the IDEA he has just presented and offering it up to be challenged because he is frustrated that he feels his communication and the mutual understanding is proving ineffectual with certain individuals.

@Boolean11 The fact that you didn't see this coming points all the more towards what others have already said: this is personal, not an actual question piqued by curiosity. If it were, you'd probably have paid a bit more attention to the wording, structuring it and planning it to get what you want. Strategists, right?

Instead, it looks like an attack on INTP intellect.

You CANNOT be that shortsighted

Or the mind of a Fe user is still alien to him. I'd say his post will end up achieving his goal as it will rile people up to keep posting and "battle" his general idea.

Perhaps · Jul 15, 2012

Okay, whose alt account are you? You keep breaking character.

hela · Jul 15, 2012

Action Potential said:
Okay, whose alt account are you? You keep breaking character.

All I ask is one weekend without a visit from Lord of the Socks.

Ista · Jul 15, 2012

Wizardry said:
Boolean you're a big bag of dicks. <---Direct aggressive.

That's the seventh dick / nuts reference I've read today. +Boolean. Week complete, *tips wine glass.*

And I totally read that Lord of the Socks comment wrong.

Ista · Jul 15, 2012

Action Potential said:
Okay, whose alt account are you? You keep breaking character.

I'm not saying this is happening, but when it does, it's so *rolls eyes* - get some stamina.

Svensenberg · Jul 15, 2012

Boolean11 said:
Sure you can post an "INTJ Brand of Butthurt" thread, what's wrong with that? You'd get new insights into the matter, unless its some Fi based argument that is just bound to create a shitstorm.

Haha.. really? I could post a thread like this, complete with all the passive aggressiveness of the OP, and once I get some backlash from it because it's a thinly veiled personal attack on someone, all I need to say is something like "woah guys, this isn't directed towards anyone specific, I'm just trying to understand some basic things about how your type reacts to being challenged..."

Everybody would believe me, I'm sure of it!

Boolean11 · Jul 15, 2012

Wizardry said:
Wait...what? This whole argument is just crap without sharing some actual events with better examples to judge individually.

He is not being passive-aggressive to you guys/gals. You want to see how this works?

Boolean you're a big bag of dicks. <---Direct aggressive.

Now, Boolean is free to make a direct statement against my person. I'm interpreting this as him still being directly aggressive to the IDEA he has just presented and offering it up to be challenged because he is frustrated that he feels his communication and the mutual understanding is proving ineffectual with certain individuals.

Or the mind of a Fe user is still alien to him. I'd say his post will end up achieving his goal as it will rile people up to keep posting and "battle" his general idea.

Personal dynamics are boring, I would really find value in trying to even consider them since people are flawed

Brainfreeze_237 · Jul 15, 2012

Wizardry said:
Or the mind of a Fe user is still alien to him. I'd say his post will end up achieving his goal as it will rile people up to keep posting and "battle" his general idea.

1) Addressed to the part in bold:

I don't buy it -.-

Oh wait! Is this what INTP ignorance is supposed to refer to? In other words, I/we've constructed a theory/model about what Boo's doing, and now I/we are emotionally attached to it?

Whoa, this calls for introsp- No, wait, I already knew I should question everything, especially my own models.

That being said...

2) to the part in italic.

Interesting. However, it's been my experience that INTJs usually have a bit more common sense than this.

Also, even if this were the case, it still pretty much deprives Boo of the right to complain about how things are getting personal and steer 'em back to the "idea battle" xD

Tit for tat: we suck it up, you suck it up. Justice is blind and all that.

Perhaps · Jul 15, 2012

Svensenberg said:
Haha.. really? I could post a thread like this, complete with all the passive aggressiveness of the OP, and once I get some backlash from it because it's a thinly veiled personal attack on someone, all I need to say is something like "woah guys, this isn't directed towards anyone specific, I'm just trying to understand some basic things about how your type reacts to being challenged..."

Everybody would believe me, I'm sure of it!

Pretty typical thread format on this site tbh.

Boolean11 · Jul 15, 2012

Svensenberg said:
Haha.. really? I could post a thread like this, complete with all the passive aggressiveness of the OP, and once I get some backlash from it because it's a thinly veiled personal attack on someone, all I need to say is something like "woah guys, this isn't directed towards anyone specific, I'm just trying to understand some basic things about how your type reacts to being challenged..."

Everybody would believe me, I'm sure of it!

*Everybody* does not exist, it's only individuals. but yeah sure why ("butthurt thread": if you were inclined to think that way it's all on you)? On the level of personal dynamics my conclusion is always final and irreversible (not everyone will like everyone). You don't have to have been born yesterday to not acknowledge that.

Is that how you get defensive or something?

Marimeli · Jul 15, 2012

Boolean11 said:
Personal dynamics are boring, I would really find value in trying to even consider them since people are flawed

You can hardly come up with a system about understanding people without taking personal dynamics into account, unless I totally misunderstood your post.

What I'm interested in knowing is how you're using the word "ignorance" and what led you to choose that particular word to describe what, to me, sounds more like inflexibility or rigidity (at least, how you describe it).

It's not like the INTP...er..."beautiful internal system" blossoms in a vacuum. It is born from tons of external input. The CRAFTING of the system is internal but it's not like they're inventing all the data that go into it. And yeah, at the 11th hour when the "system" is nearly developed, finding a totally conflicting datum might throw a wrench in a carefully constructed, intricate system, and that could be frustrating, if you conceive of the type of systems they're creating as hermetic one-off deals instead of the INTP constantly evolving way of relating to the world in general. I, however, believe the latter to be more in line with the spirit of MBTI. They aren't machines producing system after system after system to no purpose. They think by building internal models, which interrelate.

My perception, INTPs. Feel free to unload the butthurt on me if it is merited, but I'm hoping I've come to understand you a bit.

Marimeli · Jul 15, 2012

Boolean11 said:
On the level of personal dynamics my conclusion is always final and irreversible (not everyone will like everyone).

P.s. you forgot time. Not everyone will like everyone all the TIME. It's an important distinction, because for most people time and context can render even the most unforgiving likes and dislikes plastic and/or fluid.

Svensenberg · Jul 15, 2012

Action Potential said:
Pretty typical thread format on this site tbh.

Dammit. I've been doing this whole internet thing wrong then.

If anybody needs me, I'll be writing a series of self-reflective novels on Tumblr about the pain and ostracism that results from being too intellectual (and too much of a spirit animal) to be truly understood by society. Nobody gets me, and I need to make sure that everyone knows it.

INTP brand of ignorance

Boolean11

downsowf

Ista

Brainfreeze_237

Kiwizoom

Jennywocky

intrasearching

Wizardry

Perhaps

hela

Ista

Ista

Svensenberg

Boolean11

Brainfreeze_237

Perhaps

Boolean11

Marimeli

Marimeli

Svensenberg

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