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Administrative desk/clerical jobs

[INTP]
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#41 ·
I worked several jobs in a row as an administrative assistant in my 20s. I even worked for different kinds of businesses, thinking that might be the key to why I kept getting fired---over and over again.

After I was fired from my fourth post (it was a veterinarian clinic...where I thought I would be very happy) I realized, "I need therapy. I keep doing this thing that I'm so clearly terrible at. I'm either crazy, or narcissistic. Maybe both."

Here's what I learned:

First of all, let us be honest about how we generally regard the person at the front desk. Is it with respect and reverence? I doubt it, unless you are like me, and you've failed enough times to know it's a tough-ass job. And it's not for everyone. Being bright does not mean one shall succeed in all things.

Also, how fucking dismissive of me to think it must be easy answering phones? And setting appointments? And keeping the schedule straight? And being polite? And being firm, but sensitive, whenever necessary (which is often)? And saying no? And listening to people's shitty stories like I give a fuck at all? And, well, giving a fuck at all???

None of these things are simple. They take great skill.

I have only met a few clerics who were truly gifted in their trade. When I see them in action, I find it absurd that I ever thought I could be one of them. I hate stress. I hate dates. I loathe appointments. I couldn't care less about people's shitty problems. And I'm nowhere near capable of saying no without a hefty measure of blatant contrition.

So, no, I can't imagine an INTP behind a desk, greeting people with an, "I'm the kind gatekeeper," and a face and voice to match. It's tough stuff.

We are overall silly in the face of Gods and Men in any service position. We look idiotic. We feel idiotic. Mostly, it's idiocy and a lack of humility that brings us into the industry.
 
#42 ·
anarchitektur said:
When you get right down to it, there are essentially two schools of thought when it comes to work. People of the first variety seek meaning and/or intellectual or creative stimulation in their jobs, and for them, I expect anything administrative or clerical would be unfulfilling. The other type of people view their job as merely a means to an end-- they collect their paycheck, and seek meaning/fulfillment outside of work. In which case, yes, doing something clerical or administrative will not be thrilling, but it will provide stable income, is relatively undemanding, and leaves you with plenty of free time outside of work to pursue your real interests. There are pros and cons either way, it's really just a question of your priorities.
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He has it dialed down here. It also puts me in the second school of thought.

As long as I'm not doing a job I actively hate (data entry or kitchen work) or a job that will physically harm me (back injury) I'm pretty much alright. I had a pretty miserable desk job as a digital paper pusher, but the relatively mindless work and long hours weren't the issue. Working with other miserable people was. Half of them were young degenerates and the other half were well educated people who got laid off recently. Needless to say it was all angst and depression.

Relative stability and money is the whole reason I've chosen to pursue a computer science degree. I like climate controlled desk jobs and the possibility to travel and move around. I would rather have job security and make 80-180k a year. (West coast) I don't actually like coding, but it makes the most money. Second to that is research, which as far as I know doesn't have the most job security but still makes 70-90k a year.

My biggest passion is to sit on my ass with some sort of alcoholic drink and play video games and no ones going to pay me for that.
 
#45 ·
anarchitektur said:
You're clearly a young buck with no real responsibilities to speak of-- try thinking about it from the perspective of someone who is providing for a family. Different situation, different priorities.
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Agree but it's not just young people who are struggling to find bearable and fulfilling work.

Madman said:
Existence as such is a pitiful state of affairs. Life holds no value. You cannot not escape the dreariness of being alive, so every attempt in doing so is futile and naive. These people you speak of are smarter than most, because they are not chasing rainbows in an attempt to cure their own suffering. Life sucks and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about that.
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lolz. Bleak!! It's no better to judge people that take what they can get (the "mindless drones" types) as smarter than it is to call those people mindless drones.
Some people are seeking and there's nothing dumb about seeking and reaching and striving for something they find fulfilling. I don't see how it is smart just to settle for misery if you believe you can find fulfilment. It can be a driving force.

Nell said:
...
So yeah, if you're young and feel this way, act upon it with all your might, but don't judge others without knowing their circumstances.
...
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I didn't find any judgement there, @NipNip has said they're young, it read to me like they were just thinking out loud. I have asked myself this exact same question in purely an inquisitive way. Not judging others but actually wanting to know. Wondering what makes others tick, wondering why I can't settle for the mundane desk job that many others are quite content to do.
 
#47 ·
NipNip said:
Also, it's on a the "((link))" list. Clerical, administrative, ...
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interesting blog but seems to rule out pretty much every career path ever. generally, intps aren't as nerdy and socially incompetent as all that.

if you can't get into science or tech for whatever reason, doing mindless menial work is actually pretty good. the trouble is when you get promoted to the half-mindless stuff. one of the best jobs i've had was washing dishes, because i could zone out no problem. there's also a clear metric at stake so your job doesn't depend on how much others like you.
 
#50 ·
I feel bad. I said I'd go to work and then come back to contribute, but I went to work and completely forgot about this thread. Apologies.

I find it interesting that people assume that a desk job is synonymous with mindless. I'm probably going to sound a bit preachy, but here it is: A job is what you make of it. There is a high probability that even a person's dream job is going to have days when it sucks. Also, let's face it, an INTP can turn the most meaningful experience or activity into something meaningless. They could analyze all potential meaning and joy right out of it. Building orphanages? In the end they will all die, as will your name and the work you managed to accomplish. Some scientific discovery? It only created more questions than it answered and reaffirmed that in the end, humans can never really know anything. Saving sparrows with broken wings? They won't remember you.

I'll stop because I didn't intend to type all that. Basically, only you can give meaning to whatever you do.

Another contributing factor to whether a desk job is enjoyable/meaningful/meaningless/mindless is where you find yourself working. If it is with a place that has a vision that resonates with you, you'll find it more enjoyable. If the place itself is interesting, you'll enjoy it as well.

About 10 years ago, I had a "mind-numbing" job basically opening and cataloging packages for a pathology department. Most of the time, I would catalog biopsy slides, then one day I'd get a jar with a chunk of someone's neck floating in it. I found the whole thing interesting (the job, not the neck because the whole thing wasn't there, tee-hee). There was a ton to learn (so that's what lung cancer looks like!) and I actually enjoyed it. Wandering around organs in the lab, getting to know the techs and doctors was fun. When things were slow, I'd ask questions and get them to teach me things. It was like taking free classes.

Yet another thing I've learned about working in administrative jobs is that they will be boring in the beginning. Believe it or not, these are not the sort of jobs that most people just walk into and do well, as it was said earlier. For this reason, you won't get the heftier tasks that involve thinking until you prove that you're not an idiot. If you show that you are capable of handling the more complicated tasks and are willing to continue to learn new skills, you'll find far more thinking and responsibility coming your way.
 
#51 ·
NipNip said:
Any INTPs with an administrative desk job? Or INTPs that have had experience in this field of work?

For I don't know how people survive a full time administrative desk job. I honestly don't. I have tried it as a student/intern for a limited amount of time and it disgusts me.

So there is the 'boring' level of work, which is you know... 'ok' still. It sucks but, alright. But I can live with that, I mean it's 'work' after all.... But what I experienced is so much deeper than that. It's an evil, way deeper kind of level. One where you lose yourself, your identity.

From my experiece; I literally lose all of my braincells, I can feel them melting away as the hours and days pass by. I hate the working area/environment in general. The thought of doing this full time holy.... It's worse than jail.

It obviously depends slightly on the tasks, but in general it lacks everything we crave: creativity, independence, solving puzzles, ... It's simpy... routine. And it exhausts me mentally because (ironically) it doesn't require me to actively use my brain, get my Ti to work.

Also, it's on a the "INTP careers to avoid" list. Clerical, administrative, ...

So I'm wondering about your experiences, thoughts. I might be overreacting a little bit, because I don't have much actualy work experience yet. And probably need to get out of that comfort zone a little bit. I don't know, to me it seems like the worst career choice possible.

I'd rather become a technician even or something (even though I'm not handy and all) just because at least you get to drive the van, see things and people, work more freely, ... But yeah in less than a year I will obtain my bachelor's degree. Desk jobs really scare me.
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I like how in that link, it has open positions for INTPs and most of them are manager positions.
 
#53 ·
NipNip said:
Any INTPs with an administrative desk job? Or INTPs that have had experience in this field of work?
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What exactly does "administrating" entail? I have no idea what an administrator actually does.

Pifanjr said:
They might. There are enough people on YouTube or Twitch who make at least some money doing this.
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You'd have to be pretty entertaining for that. And probably spend a lot of time on bullshit "networking" to get it off the ground...
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
s2theizay said:
A job is what you make of it1. There is a high probability that even a person's dream job is going to have days when it sucks. Also, let's face it, an INTP can turn the most meaningful experience or activity into something meaningless2.
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1 - That's what my dad always says.
2 - Yeah I agree. I want to add: probably vice versa too?

Rest of your post is full of very useful information, because you speak out of experience mostly. And I can imagine myself doing the same since we're both INTPs.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
Pifanjr said:
Just saying, your dream job might actually be within reach.
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I'd actually really like that for 2 days/week or so. I would like to get better at it + need a better pc. I've tried a couple of montages in the past and what I really like about it is creating the idea in my head. I could do this from home, I like the idea. Need to get better though.
 
#56 ·
Strelok said:
You'd have to be pretty entertaining for that. And probably spend a lot of time on bullshit "networking" to get it off the ground...
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True, the chance that you will manage to make a living playing games on Twitch or YouTube is very small, but it doesn't cost a lot to just start streaming/uploading videos and seeing if you're one of the lucky ones who inexplicably get popular.

I mean, Annoying Orange has more subscribers than TED or Comedy Central and more views than the entire BBC channel.
Source: Annoying Orange Most Viewed Videos Stats (Statistics), Annoying Orange Videos, Views, Ratings, Likes, Favorites
 
#57 ·
Pifanjr said:
True, the chance that you will manage to make a living playing games on Twitch or YouTube is very small, but it doesn't cost a lot to just start streaming/uploading videos and seeing if you're one of the lucky ones who inexplicably get popular.

I mean, Annoying Orange has more subscribers than TED or Comedy Central and more views than the entire BBC channel.
Source: Annoying Orange Most Viewed Videos Stats (Statistics), Annoying Orange Videos, Views, Ratings, Likes, Favorites
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All of the big YouTubers I can think of - and when I say big, I mean those who can actually make a living from it - are huge personalities, if you get to so many subscibers that you can make a living from it then you must be bubbly, outgoing and talk about mostly superficial things. YouTube stardom isn't suited to anybody who wants to use their brain to make a living... it's certainly not an INTP career.
 
#58 ·
ziggy stardust x said:
All of the big YouTubers I can think of - and when I say big, I mean those who can actually make a living from it - are huge personalities, if you get to so many subscibers that you can make a living from it then you must be bubbly, outgoing and talk about mostly superficial things. YouTube stardom isn't suited to anybody who wants to use their brain to make a living... it's certainly not an INTP career.
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Not so much in gaming. Having an exaggerated personality still works, but you don't have to be bubbly, outgoing or talk about superficial things. You mostly have to, well... play Minecraft. Seriously, there are multiple channels in the top 100 most viewed that are mostly Minecraft related.

For Twitch, I believe it's important to either be really good (eSports level) or have cleavage. Actually, cleavage seems to be a pretty good start for being a celebrity in general, because we live in a sad, sad world.

You're right that INTPs are probably not the most suited to be a YouTube celebrity (or any kind of celebrity), but I do think it should be possible.
 
#59 ·
NipNip said:
A
It's an evil, way deeper kind of level. One where you lose yourself, your identity.

From my experiece; I literally lose all of my braincells, I can feel them melting away as the hours and days pass by.
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I'm not an INTP, but I had a similar experience.
I would help out my family member during summer in her private office, she's an accountant with ridiculously high reputation (meaning there was a lot of work, papers, numbers, important clients, blablabla). A typical ISTJ person she was.

Those clients have been expecting of me to become an accountant as her. I actually thought I could do it.

I felt the same way you felt every time I worked during summer, though.
Every day after work I'd feel as if my brain cells had died and my concern about cognitive functions (not the Jungian ones haha) worsening was higher with each day. I couldn't wait for summer to end. It was horrible.

Luckily, I chose a different path and now I feel happier. It doesn't involve a lot of work at the desk, it's a mixture of everything, but mostly moving around.

Thus, I'd advise you to do the same. Choose a different path unless you wish to suffer for a long time.
 
Discussion starter · #60 ·
Necrilia said:
Luckily, I chose a different path and now I feel happier. It doesn't involve a lot of work at the desk, it's a mixture of everything, but mostly moving around.

Thus, I'd advise you to do the same. Choose a different path unless you wish to suffer for a long time.
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Yes I'm glad I found out now and not when things get too real. What's your job roughly? "A mixture of everything" sounds very atractive.
 
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