ENFPs & Egos

NineTypesOfLight · Oct 11, 2012

Hi everyone. So I'm dating an ENFP and I've noticed that his ego has a way of coming off very strong in certain situations. I know nobody's perfect, but I'm just trying to understand him better. If any of you can relate or offer any advice I would gladly appreciate it.

1) When you get into a "debate" with someone, is it difficult for you to drop the subject? I'm talking about conversations about everyday things. Once my ENFP got into a fuss with his friend because they had different opinions about music (it just so happened to be about one of his favorite bands or something). I had to convince him to just let go and move on.

2) Do you sometimes find it difficult to accept that not all people might feel the same way about something as you? My ENFP once drunkenly told his disapproving thoughts on religion to someone very religious. Needless to say, they weren't all that pleased.

3) There have been times when even after resolving an argument, my ENFP has snapped back into being upset just moments later over something very small. It makes me feel like the harmonious atmosphere wasn't actually ever established between us if his seemingly cool mood can suddenly and so easily revert back to anger and cynicism.

4) He claims to think that open-mindedness is key to all things in life, yet ironically his own views seem to be so set in stone that he denies other possible ways of thinking. Usually when I share my own insight about something, the reaction I get from him is very skeptical and distrusting.

Thanks for your time!

Finaille · Oct 11, 2012

Could be an Enneagram thing, but I am absolutely nothing like that. I always wondered if ENFPs with a strong 8 are like this; it's almost as if the 8 has a struggle with Ne in general. When I've had arguments with ENFP 8s on this website, they have a tendency to get nastier as well, especially if they completely disagree with you. I could never, EVER swear or call somebody a name (even if I totally, 100 percent disagree with them). A type 8 (and even a 3) has always seemed more likely to result in this type of emotional interaction when upset.

That, or he's just immature and selfish.

I don't know. I'm a firm believer that I'm not another person, therefore I don't have the same taste/thoughts/beliefs as that other person. Why make another person feel bad because they are different from me? I try to respect where they are coming from at least. No sense in getting angry at them for doing/thinking what they want, unless they are hurting me intentionally or trying to pick a fight. And even then, usually I can walk away.

Hopefully another ENFP can provide a better answer...

MuChApArAdOx · Oct 11, 2012

Shamefully i have to admit i do have an ego. From what you wrote in your intro it sounds much like Fi. If i make a quick subjective judgement, it isn`t easy to let that go. I don`t have a hard time accepting when people don`t agree with me, although i won`t back down from my own opinion either. Te Ne sees things objectively, and if that objective observation is clear, Fi can take a strong stance on that clarity.

If he seems to have a distrusting skeptical take on things, he could be a Cp6 Enneagram. As a 6 i also find it difficult to trust entirely, and when i do i`ve taken some time to make that decision.

I don`t know what kind of advice i could give you. Some people are really direct and straightforward with how they approach things, this could be part of how he expresses himself.

Finaille · Oct 11, 2012

MuChApArAdOx said:
If he seems to have a distrusting skeptical take on things, he could be a Cp6 Enneagram. As a 6 i also find it difficult to trust entirely, and when i do i`ve taken some time to make that decision.
.

That's interesting though, I'm considered a CP6 myself and I could never react that way (at least, Ego-wise) if I disagree. I do completely agree with the trust issue though; I'm very skeptical... but I'd say that prevents me from thinking I'm always right or that I am superior over somebody else for thinking that way. I'm skeptical about my own beliefs! Maybe that's the difference between a 5 and 7 wing.

Good to know. Now I'm really curious to see where this thread heads!

MuChApArAdOx · Oct 11, 2012

Finaille said:
That's interesting though, I'm considered a CP6 myself and I could never react that way (at least, Ego-wise) if I disagree. I do completely agree with the trust issue though; I'm very skeptical... but I'd say that prevents me from thinking I'm always right or that I am superior over somebody else for thinking that way. I'm skeptical about my own beliefs! Maybe that's the difference between a 5 and 7 wing.

Good to know. Now I'm really curious to see where this thread heads!

You don`t seem to have an ego, although for us that do it can look really shitty at times.

I was referring to the comment he made about religion, also this.

He claims to think that open-mindedness is key to all things in life, yet ironically his own views seem to be so set in stone that he denies other possible ways of thinking. Usually when I share my own insight about something, the reaction I get from him is very skeptical and distrusting.

This seems to be a mixture of ego, Fi and core 6. He may not have a well developed Te either. The combo is deadly, believe me i know

As a 6 i question myself often, although i find myself questioning others always. I can find fault and motivation in everything that people do or say. Now of course this is my own perception , sometimes my perceptions are wrong. Even when i know my perceptions could be wrong, i still will question everything. I might say to myself, i believe X, although deep inside i'm still questioning X. Vicious circle really. If you want to get a better grasp on the difference between 5/7, the description timeless wrote is good. It's in the ENNG forum.

Finaille · Oct 11, 2012

MuChApArAdOx said:
This seems to be a mixture of ego, Fi and core 6. He may not have a well developed Te either. The combo is deadly, believe me i know

Ah, that makes sense. I missed that very bottom part of the last bullet.

But holy crikey, that sounds a lot like a friend from work. She is a brilliant, fun girl... but she does seem to exhibit a lot of the traits described here. I always pegged her more as an ENTP with a domineering Fe, but she has a strong tendency to act similarly to the OP's boyfriend. Definitely know she's a type 6 though now, with a HUGE ego.

MuChApArAdOx · Oct 11, 2012

Finaille said:
Ah, that makes sense. I missed that very bottom part of the last bullet.

But holy crikey, that sounds a lot like a friend from work. She is a brilliant, fun girl... but she does seem to exhibit a lot of the traits described here. I always pegged her more as an ENTP with a domineering Fe, but she has a strong tendency to act similarly to the OP's boyfriend. Definitely know she's a type 6 though now, with a HUGE ego.

Every description i've read about type 6 it says this type is a super ego type. I didn't always pay too much attention to it, although the more i read it the more it fit me :/ Aux Fi can look cold and egotistic also, especially when it makes a harsh judgement. As an Fi user yourself, i'm sure you can relate to having a strong subjective opinion about where you stand morally and what you value. It may not look the same as mine, because it is subjective, although it will look just as strong in your belief.

Swordsman of Mana · Oct 11, 2012

@NineTypesOfLight
I don't think I am typical of ENFPs in this regard, but I have a huge ego :wink: that said, I don't have anything wrong with large egos (they're a wonderful driving force for getting results) but they gotta be kept in check and one needs the ability to detach themselves from their ego when necessary and look objectively at some of the absolutely absurd things the ego pushes one to do. once one gets used to this, it becomes easier to view oneself more realistically and laugh at some of their absurd natural tendencies. my ego has caused me to do some really stupid things in the past (and will probably continue to do so) but I still feel like it's a powerful tool if I can keep it in perspective and learn from my many mistakes.

as @Finaille also stated, enneagram plays a role here too. I have strong 1 and 3 fixes and they definitely contribute to my ego (and I might have an 8 wing, that would probably add to it as well). core 7s can be pretty ego driven as well

1) When you get into a "debate" with someone, is it difficult for you to drop the subject?

I've gotten better, but it has definitely been a problem in the past. I can be stubborn as a mule about my beliefs and if they are threatened, my natural tendency is to fight tooth and nail until I win.

2) Do you sometimes find it difficult to accept that not all people might feel the same way about something as you?

no. in fact, the opposite. I'm often surprised that I'm not the only one who feels the way I do.

GROUNDED_ONE · Oct 11, 2012

I have a healthy ego, but it has more to do with being a recovered doormat than my personality. It depends on who it's with too. I don't get into the passionate discussions with just any schmo and it's never over anything other than a personal attack on me or someone in my life. If I agree with the criticism handed to me or another person I am healthy enough to admit it. But if I don't and they can't prove their point, saddle up partner! It's goin to be a bumpy ride. The only opponent to go a few rounds with me is my INFJ sister and those performances are worthy of an Academy Award when we get going. I won't let it go until common ground is found.

My general point of view is always that someone will have a different point of view than me. I seek that out actually to my detriment.

Maybe you could express calmly and lovingly what you observe lately. Sooner or later we as human beings have to face the mirror of our flaws. Everyone gets this chance a few times in their life. Keep holding up that mirror! If they don't see then it might be time to move on.

Nevermind_me · Oct 11, 2012

Swordsman of Mana said:
I've gotten better, but it has definitely been a problem in the past. I can be stubborn as a mule about my beliefs and if they are threatened, my natural tendency is to fight tooth and nail until I win.

This rings very true with me, and the inability to drop something when it really really matters at a core belief level. And it doesn't matter how 'irrational' your going back to that niggly i-can't-drop-it thing is, until we have satisfied ourselves that we have justified it and explained it and done everything in our power to get the person/s that disagree with it to see what we are going on about, it's an itch I can't stop scratching.

I don't think I do this about everyday things, it would be more large scale systems of beliefs and values rather than mundanities... although me and my ex-ISTJ boyfriend simply couldn't wash up together because we both believed 'our' way of washing up was the best/only way.... LOL

(and totally opposite! just like everything else we did and thought!

2) Again, I think this relates closely to the first point, depends on how much we believe in the thing we are saying. I believe everyone has the right to their own opinion, but when we discuss things we all have to be open to change.
We get better at being pragmatic and more relaxed about being able to say 'we'll have to agree to disagree' as we get older.

3) This sounds far more like a basic level of insecurity within him than anything else. When we are confident and relaxed in ourselves and in the company we are in, little things shouldn't set us off. It sounds like there is something deeper that this is an indicator of. He might not be able to articulate what though.

4) I think that's an incredibly human sounding characteristic

We are all blinded by our own sense of rightness. Be secure in yourself and unafraid to stick to your guns. Remember, ENFP's can be pretty crap at 'conflict' and we react defensively to anything we see as a criticism, such as a difference of opinion. He will be self-justifying in defence, even though you are not, in your opinion 'attacking' him, he might not be able to see that that is the case.
It has taken me years to realise when someone disagree with me, it isn't everything I stand for they are disagreeing with, it's just the way I do the washing up, or whatever

but that takes time, growing into ourselves and confidence in ourselves, and as it sounded by 3, perhaps he's not far along that road yet.

Boogie Monk · Oct 12, 2012

maybe he's just a wang?

chimeric · Oct 12, 2012

NineTypesOfLight said:
2) Do you sometimes find it difficult to accept that not all people might feel the same way about something as you? My ENFP once drunkenly told his disapproving thoughts on religion to someone very religious. Needless to say, they weren't all that pleased.

Are you sure you're not wrongly interpreting him expressing his own opinion as him condemning other people for having different ones? This can be a Fi/Fe conflict. ENFPs can be dramatic and can say things without really thinking. I could easily see a drunk ENFP going overboard with enthusiasm/gusto while talking about their beliefs and overwhelming people around them. However... I dunno, I can only speak for myself here, but I like when people feel differently, share their points of view, etc. It's an opportunity to learn. I like being challenged.

NineTypesOfLight said:
3) There have been times when even after resolving an argument, my ENFP has snapped back into being upset just moments later over something very small. It makes me feel like the harmonious atmosphere wasn't actually ever established between us if his seemingly cool mood can suddenly and so easily revert back to anger and cynicism.

Over small things? Yeah, the guy's just being moody, unless they're small things that form a behavioral pattern, anyway. How old is he, out of curiosity?

Reggie · Oct 12, 2012

NineTypesOfLight said:
Hi everyone. So I'm dating an ENFP and I've noticed that his ego has a way of coming off very strong in certain situations. I know nobody's perfect, but I'm just trying to understand him better. If any of you can relate or offer any advice I would gladly appreciate it.

1) When you get into a "debate" with someone, is it difficult for you to drop the subject? I'm talking about conversations about everyday things. Once my ENFP got into a fuss with his friend because they had different opinions about music (it just so happened to be about one of his favorite bands or something). I had to convince him to just let go and move on.

2) Do you sometimes find it difficult to accept that not all people might feel the same way about something as you? My ENFP once drunkenly told his disapproving thoughts on religion to someone very religious. Needless to say, they weren't all that pleased.

3) There have been times when even after resolving an argument, my ENFP has snapped back into being upset just moments later over something very small. It makes me feel like the harmonious atmosphere wasn't actually ever established between us if his seemingly cool mood can suddenly and so easily revert back to anger and cynicism.

4) He claims to think that open-mindedness is key to all things in life, yet ironically his own views seem to be so set in stone that he denies other possible ways of thinking. Usually when I share my own insight about something, the reaction I get from him is very skeptical and distrusting.

Thanks for your time!

ISFJ and ENFP get along well, but as romantic partners, they're on a whole different planet. They view the world differently. Your post is a symptom of that. Cheers and good luck

NineTypesOfLight · Oct 14, 2012

MuChApArAdOx said:
If he seems to have a distrusting skeptical take on things, he could be a Cp6 Enneagram. As a 6 i also find it difficult to trust entirely, and when i do i`ve taken some time to make that decision.

I don`t know what kind of advice i could give you. Some people are really direct and straightforward with how they approach things, this could be part of how he expresses himself.

I'm also an enneagram type 6. I can be skeptical, but maybe just not as outspoken as him (in fact, as an introvert, I usually keep all potentially negative comments to myself). Sometimes it really catches me off guard when he expresses himself, though... it's probably just part of his personality, exactly like you said in the second part of your response.

Boogie Monk said:
maybe he's just a wang?

Nah. The pros outweigh the cons; what I said in the original post was just focused on the latter. Like most ENFP's, he's genuine and awesome.

chimeric said:
Are you sure you're not wrongly interpreting him expressing his own opinion as him condemning other people for having different ones? This can be a Fi/Fe conflict. ENFPs can be dramatic and can say things without really thinking. I could easily see a drunk ENFP going overboard with enthusiasm/gusto while talking about their beliefs and overwhelming people around them. However... I dunno, I can only speak for myself here, but I like when people feel differently, share their points of view, etc. It's an opportunity to learn. I like being challenged.

You know, I think it's great that you ENFP's hold on so strongly to your opinions and beliefs. Really. In this case I think it's all a matter of him being misread; by myself, and the guy he was debating religion with. Him trying to get his point across probably just came off too blunt -- because of his enthusiasm, just like you described.

chimeric said:
How old is he, out of curiosity?

He's a few months away from 22.

Reggie said:
ISFJ and ENFP get along well, but as romantic partners, they're on a whole different planet. They view the world differently. Your post is a symptom of that. Cheers and good luck

Thanks! You're probably right. I just yearn to understand him because I really like getting to know his way of thinking and going about things.

Intensely So · Oct 14, 2012

Finaille said:
I always wondered if ENFPs with a strong 8 are like this; it's almost as if the 8 has a struggle with Ne in general. When I've had arguments with ENFP 8s on this website, they have a tendency to get nastier as well, especially if they completely disagree with you. \ A type 8 (and even a 3) has always seemed more likely to result in this type of emotional interaction when upset.

I think he's an enneagram 8.
I got my parents to take the enneagram test a while back and my mom got an 8 and she does not handle differing opinions well.
It's annoying.
That trait being combined with male ego and testosterone... I don't know, good luck.

chimeric · Oct 14, 2012

Intensely So said:
I think he's an enneagram 8.
I got my parents to take the enneagram test a while back and my mom got an 8 and she does not handle differing opinions well.

It's a matter of perspective. A type 8 might say you (or I) don't handle conflict well.

Type 8s value honesty and getting everything out on the table, dealing with issues head-on. Provoking people is a way to get that result.

Essay · Oct 14, 2012

NineTypesOfLight said:
Hi everyone. So I'm dating an ENFP and I've noticed that his ego has a way of coming off very strong in certain situations. I know nobody's perfect, but I'm just trying to understand him better. If any of you can relate or offer any advice I would gladly appreciate it.

1) When you get into a "debate" with someone, is it difficult for you to drop the subject? I'm talking about conversations about everyday things. Once my ENFP got into a fuss with his friend because they had different opinions about music (it just so happened to be about one of his favorite bands or something). I had to convince him to just let go and move on.

I can relate to that. Music is something I learned I can be pretty polarized about, especially when I get fixated on a song I don't like that gets stuck in my head anyway. It has literally ruined days for me, so, yeah, I've been pretty impassioned by the topic. That said, with the right person (say a random stranger), it can be pretty fun to debate because it's something that I've put a lot of thought into. Other times, it can bring to light a value conflict, such as the one I've got with my ISTP friend who came out of a philosophical debate I had with him a little sour. Pretty sure he still thinks I'm crazy for even trying to explain postmodern philosophy is something more than shock randomness.

2) Do you sometimes find it difficult to accept that not all people might feel the same way about something as you? My ENFP once drunkenly told his disapproving thoughts on religion to someone very religious. Needless to say, they weren't all that pleased.

I definitely value everyone having their own set of values and feelings, because variety is the spice of life. I still also value sharing the thoughts and data I've accumulated, but that has nothing to do with selling my values... rather just staying true to them. When I present something like your ENFP did to the religious person, it's could be for a few reasons. I'll vocalize things because my Te pulls me towards engaging in critical thinking with the outside world (not just figuring things out in my head), but I also know from experience that my verbalized thought processes stick in my memory better. Where values come in, I value not tearing about "religions" because that's destructive in my book, but I certainly wouldn't refrain from sharing and attempting to develop my findings (that "belief in enduring-souls come with a risk cognitive dissonance", that "evangelicalism is self-defeating", etc....) with someone unless I knew it would hurt them. You said your ENFP was drunk at the time, so he likely did not put two-and-two together that the person would be hurt by it... or *gaps* is not me.

3) There have been times when even after resolving an argument, my ENFP has snapped back into being upset just moments later over something very small. It makes me feel like the harmonious atmosphere wasn't actually ever established between us if his seemingly cool mood can suddenly and so easily revert back to anger and cynicism.

Sounds like what might have seemed like a resolution to you, could have been him just trying to be accommodating as a knee-jerk reaction. Problem is that he's probably like me and values transparency, so sweeping things under the carpet won't work in the long-term. (Means he probably also values the long term with you though!) Have you thought about talking with him about how you two talk? Something like this can be helpful in understanding how you two react first in conflict situations, and the alternative approaches that can be used.

4) He claims to think that open-mindedness is key to all things in life, yet ironically his own views seem to be so set in stone that he denies other possible ways of thinking. Usually when I share my own insight about something, the reaction I get from him is very skeptical and distrusting.

He could just be playing devil's advocate and trying to develop his thoughts out loud. xxFP's are wired in reverse to xxFJ's in this sense, especially us extroverted ones who can be excited by the world pushing back to help us shape our knowledge pools. The skeptical tone is kind of a hard thing to learn to avoid in this search for reliable information, but it gets easier with time if you motivate him. Just keep in mind that us idealists are more motivated by positive reinforcement.

Ace Face · Oct 14, 2012

@Finaille hit the nail on the head I think. It would be easier to pin things like this to an enneagram type.

I am a type 3 (with a dandy little 1 fix), and I can certainly have an ego at times, but I can usually keep that thing tame unless we're discussing certain topics of which I am very passionate. I do generally keep an open mind, and am always open to discussing and learning about new concepts and ideas. When in a debate or discussing a topic that I'm not passionate about, I usually keep it pretty cordial. The only time I really seem to lose my patience is when the other person involved starts drawing false conclusions, making false assumptions, or makes me have to repeat myself. Circular debates are not my cup of tea... lots of repetition involved *yanks out hair*

Dania · Oct 15, 2012

I think I misunderstand what an "ego" is. Standing up for what I believe in ... I dont think of that as egotistical. I dunno.

I am not sure if other ENFP's will agree but for the majority of ideas that exist I tend to allow people to have their own opinions. I like people to SEE my view (and vice versa) and I like for them to understand, appreciate but not necessarily agree with.

I am also empathetic, I can usually see where people are coming from when they explain what lead them to take a certain stance on a topic.

But I dont shove my idea down people's throats. People are often narrow minded when they hold a popular belief which I understand (eg. christianity), and i am sharing my own view they like to blow it off and not open their minds to what I have experienced etc... They would like to think i am trying to change their views, when I am only trying to help them see the world from my angle.

There are some things though that I think are universal law and people may think differently on. I just cannot find any exceptions to those rules. Like today I stumbled on one:

1. IF YOU Physically ASSAULT MY PERSON, I MAY USE FORCE IN DEFENCE OR RETALIATION... regardless of my/your sex.

Now many people, men and women, believe that a woman should not be knocked the fuck out if she smacks a man in the face... (lemme calm down.. now, not KO'd but.. at least a fucking hot backhand)...

"Oh its a female.. yo can hit her"... Oh man. I just think you is a damn idiot if you doe agree with rule 1.

Otherwise, To each his own.

Subtle Murder · Oct 15, 2012

1) Yes. If I am convinced I am right, I can't drop the subject until I've beaten the other person over the head with my opinion. I've caught myself doing this, and I realise it's a really silly thing to do because we're all entitled to our own opinions (whether they're right or not

).

Related to your example: An INFJ friend of mine really strongly dislikes one of my favourite bands. It's a bit of a sore spot for me because if they're brought up in conversation he'll rant about how much he dislikes them, despite knowing how attached I am to them. I've had to learn to keep my mouth shut because, if I spoke up, it would probably turn into a fight. Plus I keep hoping that if I don't react he'll stop trashing them in front of me. *shrugs*

2) It took me a very long time to realise that not everyone feels the same way that I do. I have very strongly held convictions, and when someone doesn't agree with them, I struggle with that. A co-worker of mine absolutely refuses to check customers bags if she suspects that they may have stolen something. Her reasoning is: "I don't get paid enough for that". To me, that is negligence and laziness. But that's my personal conviction, and I have to accept that she doesn't feel the same way. It's kinda hard not to judge her for it, though.

4) Haha. This sounds a lot like me too. I do believe in being open-minded, and I try to be on all counts. But often if I have made a judgement about something it can be quite hard to get me to change my mind or accept new information. It honestly just depends upon the situation and whether or not it sits well with me.

No idea if this is related to MBTI or Enneagram, but I just wanted to share with you the ways in which I relate to the post; if it helps at all.

ENFPs & Egos

NineTypesOfLight

Finaille

MuChApArAdOx

Finaille

MuChApArAdOx

Finaille

MuChApArAdOx

Swordsman of Mana

GROUNDED_ONE

Nevermind_me

Boogie Monk

chimeric

Reggie

NineTypesOfLight

Intensely So

chimeric

Essay

Ace Face

Dania

Subtle Murder

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