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infj7

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Does anyone think that INFJ being the rarest type is due to evolution and natural selection reason? e.g. A dominant Se type might have been more aware of surrounding predators in the environment? I guess this could also raise the age old debate of: are we born with all of the individual behaviours and emotions that comprise our personalities (nature), do we develop them over time (nurture), or is it a mixture of both? Just a random thought, I have no single opinion on this but would be interested to hear some viewpoints :)
 
So far, much of the evidence seems to point to a mixture of nature and nurture when it comes to personality expression. Twin studies providing some of the best evidence. There's more similarities between family members when it comes to the Big 5 model than MBTI, if I remember correctly. There's no telling what kind of amalgamation you're going to get of the two parents genes in a child. To make a really crappy surface analogy - red parent, blue parent, purple kid.

As far as I know there's no strong correlation to suggest that any particular aspect of Jungian Type is heritable. As a result, I imagine that there wouldn't be a way for selection pressure to influence it's prevalence either way? The only thing I can think, is that there are probably more surviving xNxx, because even if it was the case that dom/aux Se users would have an advantage as hunters and against predators, and Si dom/aux might also quickly relate a sound or visual queue in the environment that's been connected to prey or predator before... much of the world doesn't live in as critically dangerous an environment, so those pressures are less present.

What would be interesting is to type people still living in isolated tribal communities, and see what the prevalence of types are among those peoples.
 
The "1%" date is probably outdated, the true number is probably more like 2-3%, which is similar to to all intuitive types (all being 2-3% population). My theory is that intuitive minds are in fact mutations and our goal is to adapt and survive in a environment that does not think or behave like us (like the first chimps that developed opposable thumbs or learned to walk upright) . As far as I know, there isn't data out there to prove my theory. Someone out there would have to be taking samples of intuitive population growth or decline over a large time period to really know what is going on. Also to answer your second question, I think our personality is ingrained in our DNA (nature) but it takes an series of event/experiences (nurture) to activate them and develop those personality genes. So it is both.

When I think about xNxx types, I go straight to thinking about Xmen!
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Yes I don't see much correlation between **** mother and **** father creating **** child, it does seem pretty random... I thought that maybe there could be some genetic factor though, that could skip generations, even multiple generations. e.g. INFJ woman has INFJ great-great grandchild (this could be a nurture reason though and also not heredity). Yes it would be interesting to see types in isolated communities and what personality traits are seen as desirable/essential in their communities to survive.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
I have also thought about why I have to adapt and survive in a environment that on the most part does not think or behave like me and it has made me wonder why there are minorities and majorities of personality in society. It seems to me that life would be much more straight forward and less of a challenge being a majority.
 
It is evolutionary...but not in the way that you are thinking. If INFJs see the larger picture then less of us are needed in order to fulfill our purpose. Our physical presence contributes little. We are leaders. Iniatators of change. Detail-oriented individuals working by themselves wouldn't contribute much to the evolution of our species other than the preservation of their own survival, so in order to serve their evolutionary purpose they must exist in larger numbers.

It doesn't matter whether it is heritable or not because the development of personality type would still be a result of generations of influence and therefore an indication of the natural evolutionary path that humans have taken. I don't see how something as complex as cognitive perception could be pre-mapped into your brain before birth. At the most, you might inherit some kind of hormonal disposition or a personality disorder.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Are personalities that are less complex often better understood and therefore more appreciated than those who are more complicated? Detail-orientated types being preferred over the bigger picture types? Detailed orientated types attracted to other similar types? Sexual selection?
 
Were this true, we'd see far more hereditary correlation, which we just don't generally see.

INFJs aren't necessarily any more complex than any other type. The human brain is so enormously complex among all types that differences in cognitive styles are really entirely negligible.
 
Yes I don't see much correlation between **** mother and **** father creating **** child, it does seem pretty random... I thought that maybe there could be some genetic factor though, that could skip generations, even multiple generations. e.g. INFJ woman has INFJ great-great grandchild (this could be a nurture reason though and also not heredity). Yes it would be interesting to see types in isolated communities and what personality traits are seen as desirable/essential in their communities to survive.
I think it's more likely to be something along the lines of multiple genes acting in concert that produce the difference. Mom had the fire, dad had the water, but we couldn't steam the veggies 'til they were both in the same place.

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referencing some other comments:

A mutation would suggest that an N parent and especially two N parents would have a significantly higher statistical chance of passing on their mutation to their children - producing more N children than S children both in general and when compared to two S parents. The statistics haven't borne this out, however, which is why the conclusion so far has been that it's not heritable.

Evolution also doesn't work with a "purpose," or kill people off because they're less "valuable", sometimes if Society finds you so disgusting and invaluable that it shuns you to the extent that you can't survive or never procreate... that's something, but that's not very common. Evolution doesn't know that you're a leader or a grunt. It's not a conscious process. Your genes get passed on if you survive and procreate, that's it. If anything, a leader in an environment where selection pressures are high are going to have a greater chance of passing on a great deal of their genes. Leaders of groups that live in such environments often have the best food and living conditions, have greater amounts of protection, and access to more partners for mating purposes. In environments that don't have high selection pressures, whether or not someone is a leader is a bit of a moot point.

Looking at spiritual and philosophical master works... a lot of them seem to have been written by or influenced by people who were N's of varying sorts. N's existed through-out most parts of written history so far as we can tell. So it's not some new-fangled evolutionary advancement. Plenty of S's adopt the spiritual writings and beliefs of N leaders, but idealizing those thinking styles obviously has not turned them or most of their children into Ns... so influence very likely has little to do with it.

You have blueprint for your entire body, cells replicating and usually falling right into place (so long as that blue print does not have a smudge in it somewhere, causing a defect)... how could every single part of your body be mapped out in your DNA and work like a well oiled machine once built so long as it's care for... but not your brain? Referencing those Twin studies again - these have shown pairs identical twins, raised in entirely different families, never having met one another, but sharing most of their tastes in food, music, mates - even often sharing complex behavioral habits. Because what they shared was not nurture, not their environment, but their complete genetic make-up, this suggests a very high genetic predisposition component to personality. That's not the same as saying "heritable", as I mentioned before, when you're mixing two sets of genes to make a child the resulting mix is going to be different every time (except in the obvious case of identical twins lol). Twins who are raised together, may purposefully decide to differentiate depending on how they're treated. Sometimes there's an outside competing influence causing them to move away from what comes naturally. It would actually be interesting to see sets of identical twins raised together in an environment that caused them to compete for individuality in this way, but who move apart and don't spend much time together any more. I wonder if after many years, what comes naturally will re-emerge as their typical behaviors.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I meant complex in the context of always feeling misunderstood and ‘hidden’, less forthcoming and whether this introverted aspect would lead types to experience difficulty understanding and forming a connection with an INFJ. Guess this subject is all a bit of a mystery to me, but that makes the debating fun :D
 
There's no telling what kind of amalgamation you're going to get of the two parents genes in a child. To make a really crappy surface analogy - red parent, blue parent, purple kid.
My Mom is an ESTJ, and my Dad is an INTJ..but I'm an INFJ. Perhaps T cancels each other out? Maybe Judgement is hereditary? Who knows...

On another note, I think a child starts with their Dominant function. If this is adopted through nature/nurture, I'm not sure. Then, the child adapts their Auxiliary function to balance their Dominant function (seeing as one is introverted/extroverted, and the other is extroverted/introverted). The rest is developed through time (the Auxiliary is the opposite of the Tertiary, and the Inferior is the opposite of the Dominant). So it all depends on which two functions we acquire first. Perhaps it is just rare for a child to pick up on both Ni and Fe; or the functions are recessive if seen through a nature point of view.
 
The numbers are not outdated.. It's still somewhere around 1.5-2% of the population.

If you are looking for a scientific explanation.. Consider this. Most people are either right or left brain dominant with a higher % being right brain doms.. Empirical typology data states that INFJs are neither. INFJ brains usually score somewhere close to the middle.
 
Though I am creationist, and do not believe that all life came from one original cell, I do believe that creatures adapt and conform to their environments.

That being said...

Though INFJs are rare, it could be that we are more of a GROWING demographic rather then a shrinking one.
For, INFJs prosper in today's societal structures and have shown themselves to be one of the more adaptable types of the bunch.

It would not make sense that INFJs would the on the decline when there is such a rich environment for them to flourish in.

But it is possible. That would be... Distressing... If that were the case...
 
I'm not really sure. Personally, I don't think INFJs are all that complex, we just seem complex because we are one of the rarer personality types. If we were more common, more people would understand us. :tongue:

I hesitate to ascribe any sort of genetic reason to this...but I have noticed one trend. Any Ni-dom I have ever personally known...and any I have talked to...has never wanted kids AT ALL at any age before 30, if at all. I personally want to adopt my kids...heck, if I didn't consider my husband's considerations I'd get permanently sterilized. I think it's a possibility that Ni-doms are just more forward looking and actively see how much work and effort and dedication kids are and think 'wow, I'm not ready...'
 
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