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Are there any other phobic/counterphobic types besides 6?

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#2 · (Edited)
Any type can take a counter-phobic "approach" (that is acting despite fear). But, fear being at the root of the 6 fixation is why the term phobic and counter-phobic "type" only applies to the 6. I've seen some people mistakenly use the term counter-phobic for the other two head types because head types are in the fear/anxiety centre. This is inaccurate. There's no such thing as cp5, for instance.
 
#3 ·
Yes, actually. Nines can be incredibly phobic/counterphobic depending on what emotional philosophy they've tacked themselves to in life. Phobic nines are generally the quiet "I'll do whatever you guys want to do" type. They are the kind of folks that act as carpet fodder for other types; the thing is, is that in order to fufill this position in a peaceful and harmonious way, they have to pretend that they actually WANT to be the carpet. Which means a lot of self-delusion can play out with the phobic nine. Unfortunately, the phobic nine doesn't really realize any of this is going on subconsciously. They just continue thinking everything will be peaceful and harmonious so long as they strive to be the best carpet ever.

Actually, Walt Disney was a huge Enneagram fan and he helped design the Magic Carpet in Aladdin after a close personal friend of his who was also a phobic nine. To be honest, it's pretty cool phobic nines get their own Disney character, even if it just a carpet. The only bummer is that his friend died three weeks before the opening of the film, so he only got to see a bunch of roughs of his idealized self.

Image


Actually, the Buddhists are pretty tough on phobic nines because they're constantly telling them "you think you're happy, but you're actually not." This can really mess up the phobic nine if not said in a harmonious way. Generally, I've found it's better for Buddhists and nines not to hang out with one another. Usually a cat gets killed in the process and then world harmony kind of shatters. It's a bit like putting Buddha and Ghandi in room and telling them to out-harmony one another. Eventually one type of harmony must implode.


Unlike phobic nines, counterphobic nines are not so carpet-y. At least, they don't come off that way. The counterphobic nine strives to be a carpet, but he/she can't be one until the people walking on him are also pseudo-carpets. In other words, the counterphobic nines strives to make everyone carpets so that we can all kind of do a giant carpet dog pile in love.

So a counterphobic nine will be a carpet until a non-carpet walks on it (like a six). And then the carpet counterphobic nine, sensing that a non-carpet has entered it's territory, will spring up and carpet mob the non-carpet.

I'm sure that doesn't make sense, so let me give you a picture:

Image


These are counterphobic nines swimming around a grocery store exit pretending to be tanned sharks. They are peaceful and happy and totally invested in harmony-- UNTIL A NON HARMONIOUS SHOOPER WALKS OUT ONTO THEIR TERRITORY. Then they go into a feeding frenzy. They try to convince the non-carpet to join them in carpet harmony by offering kind words about whales and begging for money.

If the non-carpet agrees, the counterphobic nine falls out of it's counterphobic stage and goes back to being a carpet. They've just converted another one. And thus, there are no more non carpets in their territory. But the second a new non-carpet walks out, they go counterphobic again and mob them.

This might sound like a one, but it isn't. Ones don't wear that kind of getup in public.

If you're having trouble understanding, think about it this way. A phobic one might stand outside the grocery store, but they won't confront anybody who walks by. Why? Because they want to keep the harmony and in order to do that they must continue being a carpet (or just invisible) so that they don't get in people's way. Rugs aren't supposed to trip people, after all. But by contrast, the counterphobic nine thinks "hey, we have to all be rugs in order for real harmony to exist." So they leap up and fight the non-carpets until they become carpets and agree to total world dominion under the nines.

Basically, counterphobic nines are carpets who become non carpets in order to convince non carpets to become carpets.

Now here's the ultimate test to see if you've learned anything about what I've said:

Identify the nine in the picture below:

Image
 
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#4 ·
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
Marlowe said:
Yes, actually. Nines can be incredibly phobic/counterphobic depending on what emotional philosophy they've tacked themselves to in life. Phobic nines are generally the quiet "I'll do whatever you guys want to do" type. They are the kind of folks that act as carpet fodder for other types; the thing is, is that in order to fufill this position in a peaceful and harmonious way, they have to pretend that they actually WANT to be the carpet. Which means a lot of self-delusion can play out with the phobic nine. Unfortunately, the phobic nine doesn't really realize any of this is going on subconsciously. They just continue thinking everything will be peaceful and harmonious so long as they strive to be the best carpet ever.

Actually, Walt Disney was a huge Enneagram fan and he helped design the Magic Carpet in Aladdin after a close personal friend of his who was also a phobic nine. To be honest, it's pretty cool phobic nines get their own Disney character, even if it just a carpet. The only bummer is that his friend died three weeks before the opening of the film, so he only got to see a bunch of roughs of his idealized self.

Image


Actually, the Buddhists are pretty tough on phobic nines because they're constantly telling them "you think you're happy, but you're actually not." This can really mess up the phobic nine if not said in a harmonious way. Generally, I've found it's better for Buddhists and nines not to hang out with one another. Usually a cat gets killed in the process and then world harmony kind of shatters. It's a bit like putting Buddha and Ghandi in room and telling them to out-harmony one another. Eventually one type of harmony must implode.


Unlike phobic nines, counterphobic nines are not so carpet-y. At least, they don't come off that way. The counterphobic nine strives to be a carpet, but he/she can't be one until the people walking on him are also pseudo-carpets. In other words, the counterphobic nines strives to make everyone carpets so that we can all kind of do a giant carpet dog pile in love.

So a counterphobic nine will be a carpet until a non-carpet walks on it (like a six). And then the carpet counterphobic nine, sensing that a non-carpet has entered it's territory, will spring up and carpet mob the non-carpet.

I'm sure that doesn't make sense, so let me give you a picture:

Image


These are counterphobic nines swimming around a grocery store exit pretending to be tanned sharks. They are peaceful and happy and totally invested in harmony-- UNTIL A NON HARMONIOUS SHOOPER WALKS OUT ONTO THEIR TERRITORY. Then they go into a feeding frenzy. They try to convince the non-carpet to join them in carpet harmony by offering kind words about whales and begging for money.

If the non-carpet agrees, the counterphobic nine falls out of it's counterphobic stage and goes back to being a carpet. They've just converted another one. And thus, there are no more non carpets in their territory. But the second a new non-carpet walks out, they go counterphobic again and mob them.

This might sound like a one, but it isn't. Ones don't wear that kind of getup in public.

If you're having trouble understanding, think about it this way. A phobic one might stand outside the grocery store, but they won't confront anybody who walks by. Why? Because they want to keep the harmony and in order to do that they must continue being a carpet (or just invisible) so that they don't get in people's way. Rugs aren't supposed to trip people, after all. But by contrast, the counterphobic nine thinks "hey, we have to all be rugs in order for real harmony to exist." So they leap up and fight the non-carpets until they become carpets and agree to total world dominion under the nines.

Basically, counterphobic nines are carpets who become non carpets in order to convince non carpets to become carpets.

Now here's the ultimate test to see if you've learned anything about what I've said:

Identify the nine in the picture below:

Image
Click to expand...
why are you not motm
 
#6 ·
Well, not specifically counter-phobic in the sense of CP6 but counter-passion yes. Naranjo says that all sx subtypes are counter-passion. I don't know how true this is, but thus far I think it's been pretty consistent in the people I've seen who seem to be correctly typed as sx doms.
 
#7 ·
LeaT said:
Well, not specifically counter-phobic in the sense of CP6 but counter-passion yes. Naranjo says that all sx subtypes are counter-passion. I don't know how true this is, but thus far I think it's been pretty consistent in the people I've seen who seem to be correctly typed as sx doms.
Click to expand...
Where does he say that?
That's inaccurate.
SP 1 and SP 3 are counter-types/counter-passion types for 1 and 3, so clearly not all SX sub-types are counter-passion according to Naranjo.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I've never even read anything by Naranjo. Only Don Richard and Riso Hudson or whatever their names are. I don't really like their take lol they're so corny with their ~beings of light~ and stuff.
 
#10 ·
Boss said:
Where does he say that?
That's inaccurate.
SP 1 and SP 3 are counter-types/counter-passion types for 1 and 3, so clearly not all SX sub-types are counter-passion according to Naranjo.
Click to expand...
From what I understood from the speeches he gave about subtypes. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention to 1 and 3, but for the other types in general, there's a tendency that sx subtypes are counter-passion.
 
#11 ·
I believe it's the Fauvres who stated that sx-types are the counter-type. I don't know where they got that information from, or if it simply comes from their own observations, but Katherine wrote that to me personally.

I don't know what Naranjo said, but I've seen sp-3, soc-8, and sx-6 listed as countertypes in notes I've read on his speeches. I don't know about the other types; I would imagine, however, if there's a fixation, it's possible to have a counter-fixation, regardless of instinct.
 
#12 ·
holyrockthrower said:
I believe it's the Fauvres who stated that sx-types are the counter-type. I don't know where they got that information from, or if it simply comes from their own observations, but Katherine wrote that to me personally.

I don't know what Naranjo said, but I've seen sp-3, soc-8, and sx-6 listed as countertypes in notes I've read on his speeches. I don't know about the other types; I would imagine, however, if there's a fixation, it's possible to have a counter-fixation, regardless of instinct.
Click to expand...
Well, I know that sx 4 is called counter-envy, sx 5 is also counter-passion because the sx 5 creates connections by sharing knowledge, and sx 6 is counter-phobic as you say. So there's definitely a trend going on there. I was reading a bit haphazardly on 16types about those who took notes on his lectures and I gleaned the discussion where they simply noted that sx seems to often be counter-passion.

Personally though, I don't think any subtype must always result in counter-anything, I think it can be a bit individual as well, but anyway.
 
#13 ·
LeaT said:
From what I understood from the speeches he gave about subtypes. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention to 1 and 3, but for the other types in general, there's a tendency that sx subtypes are counter-passion.
Click to expand...
Well, SO 8 is the counter type for 8 and SP? (certainly not Sx) is the counter-type for 2. SO 7 is also a counter-type So, that's 5 out of 9 types where SX isn't the counter-type. So, clearly, the general tendency doesn't point towards Sx=counter type.

@holyrockthrower

According to Naranjo's sub type theory, each type has a counter-type which runs counter to the flow of the passion. So, all 9 types have a counter type. SX 6 (which Naranjo equates with cp6, though RH say that Sx 6s can be cp/ p) is the most famous counter-type.
 
#17 ·
Boss said:
According to Naranjo's sub type theory, each type has a counter-type which runs counter to the flow of the passion. So, all 9 types have a counter type. SX 6 (which Naranjo equates with cp6, though RH say that Sx 6s can be cp/ p) is the most famous counter-type.
Click to expand...
Where does he write about it? As a So 9 I am quite interested in reading more about it.
 
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