INFJs & ENTJs, Similarities & etc?

Cross · Mar 7, 2013

I'm sorry if I'm not that helpful, but I haven't really thought of typing another as an ENTJ, nor have I met one that told me he/she was an ENTJ. I think the only ones I've talked to, who're sure they're ENTJ's are the ones of PerC, so that's as close as I get.

If you see an assertive aspect of his persona, it might be because of the 3w2 Enneagram (just a hunch).

NuthatchXi · Mar 7, 2013

scarlett.page said:
For me it happened to be mistaking an INFJ for an ENTJ who is heavily guarded & loves to put on an ENTJ mask. I think it would be a lot rare to mistake a true ENTJ for an INFJ ;}

I actually meant I had trouble seeing how your friend could be confused, not how you could be, but that makes sense!

XperimntNterror · Mar 7, 2013

scarlett.page said:
Hey INFJs, I don't know many of you & I'm curious about your type! Specifically your relation to ENTJs.

A friend I was positive was an ENTJ took the test but it said he was an INFJ. 1st I just assumed it was inaccurate but now I'm wondering...

Have you INFJs ever been mistaken for an ENTJ, perhaps by yourselves? If not an ENTJ, more of an Extravert or Thinker than Introvert and Feeler? If you know any ENTJs, in what ways do you get along & how do you differ?

I thought my friend was an ENTJ for many reasons; to name a few he at least appears very comfortable around a lot of people and meeting new people, he's charismatic, sees things very black & white, very well spoken & opinionated as well as witty & goofy, hides his emotions basically always but has a strong sentimental streak, doesn't ever appear to want or need help...so much more than that but do you guys feel you have a lot of these qualities too? Interestingly enough he has admitted to wearing a thousand faces, which I sensed. So maybe a more ENTJ is just a face he wears. Do you INFJs find yourselves doing that?

Of course any type can mistake themselves and tests can be inaccurate but I'm usually really good at determining my friends' types & I just thought this was interesting. Any ENTJs have an opinion on this well? Thanks for your responses!

I frequently hide my feelings (well, at least try to) so I have sometimes felt I had more Fi preference than Fe, but when I sit and really think about it, I realize that I want to be more outwardly expressive than I am, but societal standards of "manliness" cause me to withhold myself most of the time.

I wouldn't say that I'm comfortable with new people or groups on most occasions (I am also fairly shy), but every once in awhile I will burst out of my bubble and be very social and charismatic with people. However, anyone who puts in a enough time to get to know me without running away will discover that I actually talk and talk and talk.... and talk and be silly and goofy and... sort of extroverted; they are always bewildered by this since I am so reserved most of the time.

I am prone to "black and white" thinking, but that's largely due to the fact that I have thought about "grey areas" a lot and came to the conclusion that these are man-made constructs of reality... but I digress.

I'm not "well spoken"; I tend to ramble and go all over the place... I'm very self-conscious of this and feel like it makes me across as less intelligent since I appear to lack cohesion in my thought processes to an outside listener. I notice this by how they seem to have to focus on what it is I'm saying rather intently in order to follow me. I'm, however, highly opinionated and will become very vocal in defending those opinions to other people.

I'm not super sentimental (things are things... they are nice, but still just things), but I do keep a shoebox with letters and gifts and such that have sentimental value for me.

I don't like asking for help and seldom do. I will suffer, in most cases, before I will bother someone with helping me.

I've never wondered if I were ENTJ, but I have wondered if I am INFP before.

EmotionalMe · Mar 7, 2013

My very very best friend is an ENTJ. I refer to her more as my "soul sister", even though we have never met in real life. I've come to know her through another forum about 3 and a half years ago. I can't tell you exactly how she is in general and how it differs from how she acts when she talks with me, but I have a pretty good ability of knowing, sensing and reading people, even through the computer alone. From what I know her, she sounds a lot like your friend. She loves meeting new people, she is very charismatic, opinionated, well spoken, when she needs help she doesn't like to show it and she would rarely ask for it. But when I think of myself, I don't see many of these things in my own personality. Actually, I don't really like meeting new people and prefer the ones that I already know and am close with, I am not too opinionated-- not because I don't know what I want or what I believe in, but because I don't have one bit of assertiveness. As for being charismatic, I used to be somewhat charismatic but became pretty self conscious, insecure and introverted, so I wouldn't say it's something that describes me. One more thing that I noticed is a big difference between us, is that she is usually a happy person. I don't know if it's an INFJ thing or just a "me" thing, but I find that it isn't very rare for me to be melancholic. For no reason, really. It comes through in everything, from liking sad songs (while she can't stand them because they "depress her") to the overall attitude toward things (she is a lot more optimistic, and I tend to worry in many situations and think the worst of the worst). But I guess that I could find some similarities as well. We both have a strong moral compass and we are both pretty idealistic. We are very jealous people, especially when it comes to friendships; we don't like sharing our close friends with others.
I'm not 100% I, and I can see that in the fact that I do like being around people because if I am alone for too long I start feeling very depressed and lonely, and I overthink which doesn't lead to any good places. I'm also not a complete F either, and that shows mostly in my thinking, not my acting. I try to understand why things are logical because sometimes feelings don't make sense and it messes with my head. I end up doing mostly what I feel is right, but at times I do make decisions with my head too.
From what you described, your friend does sound more like ENTJ than INFJ to me, but of course I don't know enough to determine.

scarlett.page · Mar 7, 2013

XperimntNterror said:
I frequently hide my feelings (well, at least try to) so I have sometimes felt I had more Fi preference than Fe, but when I sit and really think about it, I realize that I want to be more outwardly expressive than I am, but societal standards of "manliness" cause me to withhold myself most of the time.

I wouldn't say that I'm comfortable with new people or groups on most occasions (I am also fairly shy), but every once in awhile I will burst out of my bubble and be very social and charismatic with people. However, anyone who puts in a enough time to get to know me without running away will discover that I actually talk and talk and talk.... and talk and be silly and goofy and... sort of extroverted; they are always bewildered by this since I am so reserved most of the time.

I am prone to "black and white" thinking, but that's largely due to the fact that I have thought about "grey areas" a lot and came to the conclusion that these are man-made constructs of reality... but I digress.

I'm not "well spoken"; I tend to ramble and go all over the place... I'm very self-conscious of this and feel like it makes me across as less intelligent since I appear to lack cohesion in my thought processes to an outside listener. I notice this by how they seem to have to focus on what it is I'm saying rather intently in order to follow me. I'm, however, highly opinionated and will become very vocal in defending those opinions to other people.

I'm not super sentimental (things are things... they are nice, but still just things), but I do keep a shoebox with letters and gifts and such that have sentimental value for me.

I don't like asking for help and seldom do. I will suffer, in most cases, before I will bother someone with helping me.

I've never wondered if I were ENTJ, but I have wondered if I am INFP before.

Thank you for your reply. You sound more introverted than the INFJ I know. I'm not sure what his reasoning is for hiding his feelings, but I think it's too prevent getting hurt & hurting others. You seem to know yourself well too. However, I've wondered if it is characteristic of INFJs to not necessarily give themselves credit (or responsbility) for how they come off? (I can say this is true of myself, idk how other INTPs feel about that) Perhaps, for example, you appear more comfortable with people than you realize. Idk if that is true, because I don't know you, but I'm entertaining this idea.

I'm also interested in you explaining more about the man made grey areas?

XperimntNterror · Mar 8, 2013

scarlett.page said:
Thank you for your reply. You sound more introverted than the INFJ I know. I'm not sure what his reasoning is for hiding his feelings, but I think it's too prevent getting hurt & hurting others. You seem to know yourself well too. However, I've wondered if it is characteristic of INFJs to not necessarily give themselves credit (or responsbility) for how they come off? (I can say this is true of myself, idk how other INTPs feel about that) Perhaps, for example, you appear more comfortable with people than you realize. Idk if that is true, because I don't know you, but I'm entertaining this idea.

I'm also interested in you explaining more about the man made grey areas?

I don't know... I feel like I sort of come off as relaxed to other people.... until I have to speak. Then, I feel like I come across as uncomfortable, but I think this is just a result of my shyness with people. If I weren't shy (or if I could prevent it from being displayed outwardly), I would probably exude a certain amount of confidence to people and seem fairly sure of myself, even though, on the inside, I feel anything but certain.

It's not uncommon for people to assume I'm pretty laid back and easygoing until they really start to get to know me better, then they are shocked at how passionate and convicted I can be. Some people assume I'm the aloof, mysterious "cool guy" too (I think this is mostly based on appearance and my reserved nature), but I am anything but that guy... seriously

.

Hrm... man-made grey areas.... well, that could totally derail your thread here and possibly spark controversy since it's pretty much guaranteed that others will have their own opinions on this, but....

So, take telling lies for example. Lies are wrong. If you go by, say, the Ten Commandments, it simply states "Thou shalt not lie", which is black and white by it's nature. Mankind, however, expands upon concepts like this. We have varying degrees of severity with regard to lying. Little white lies aren't considered to be so bad and, some might even say, necessary in certain situations. The severity and level of disdain varies depending on the situation/context the lie is being told in. Some individuals also don't see "bending the truth" or concealing the truth as lying and then others do see these things as lies.

I consider the "grey areas" to be a result of 1) mankind's limited understanding of absolutes (i.e., justice, mercy, love, hate, right, wrong, good, evil, etc.) and 2) a means to reduce accountability in various situations (e.g., killing in war is allowable and considered a "necessary evil", but killing your neighbor because you felt like it is considered murder and you will lose your freedom or, depending on the laws in your state, maybe even your own life... which is also "justified" like in war, but... all of these things are killing and, again with the Ten Commandments, it states "Thou shalt not kill"; no specifics, just don't kill.)

Of course, I am spiritual and believe in God, but the logic in "black and white" is profound to me and when I imagine a world that applied that, instead of using all the "grey", I see a much nicer place. Grey just seems to confuse; black and white provides clarity.

I'm sure someone will have some other opinion

but there you go.

scarlett.page · Mar 8, 2013

XperimntNterror said:
I don't know... I feel like I sort of come off as relaxed to other people.... until I have to speak. Then, I feel like I come across as uncomfortable, but I think this is just a result of my shyness with people. If I weren't shy (or if I could prevent it from being displayed outwardly), I would probably exude a certain amount of confidence to people and seem fairly sure of myself, even though, on the inside, I feel anything but certain.

It's not uncommon for people to assume I'm pretty laid back and easygoing until they really start to get to know me better, then they are shocked at how passionate and convicted I can be. Some people assume I'm the aloof, mysterious "cool guy" too (I think this is mostly based on appearance and my reserved nature), but I am anything but that guy... seriously .

Hrm... man-made grey areas.... well, that could totally derail your thread here and possibly spark controversy since it's pretty much guaranteed that others will have their own opinions on this, but....

So, take telling lies for example. Lies are wrong. If you go by, say, the Ten Commandments, it simply states "Thou shalt not lie", which is black and white by it's nature. Mankind, however, expands upon concepts like this. We have varying degrees of severity with regard to lying. Little white lies aren't considered to be so bad and, some might even say, necessary in certain situations. The severity and level of disdain varies depending on the situation/context the lie is being told in. Some individuals also don't see "bending the truth" or concealing the truth as lying and then others do see these things as lies.

I consider the "grey areas" to be a result of 1) mankind's limited understanding of absolutes (i.e., justice, mercy, love, hate, right, wrong, good, evil, etc.) and 2) a means to reduce accountability in various situations (e.g., killing in war is allowable and considered a "necessary evil", but killing your neighbor because you felt like it is considered murder and you will lose your freedom or, depending on the laws in your state, maybe even your own life... which is also "justified" like in war, but... all of these things are killing and, again with the Ten Commandments, it states "Thou shalt not kill"; no specifics, just don't kill.)

Of course, I am spiritual and believe in God, but the logic in "black and white" is profound to me and when I imagine a world that applied that, instead of using all the "grey", I see a much nicer place. Grey just seems to confuse; black and white provides clarity.

I'm sure someone will have some other opinion but there you go.

I trust you are honest with yourself, I wish every INFJ and well, every person ever, was too. Rather than allowing himself to come off as awkward or uncomfortable, this INFJ can either come off as more interested and curious about something he doesn’t know or possibly doesn’t care about, or he becomes loud and authoritative in a partly rude partly humorous way. So he can be both mysterious and convicted. He’s very contradictory, idk if he just is or is acting to be.

On the “grey areas”, I agree with you for the most part. First of all, black and white definitely provides more clarity. But I do think that situations and contexts are honestly too complex, some arguably more today than in biblical times, for us to not consider expanding on black and white rights and wrongs. There is a logic to the black and white. But that logic can still exist separate from not so strict adherence of those rules. When I think of a black and white moral coded world, I think of simplicity replacing choice, freedom, and personality.

When you mention absolutes: love, justice, mercy, hate, what exactly do you mean? Do you think people are not in touch with love and hate as feelings, justice and mercy as concepts or actions? And if so, how so? Did we become disconnected from experiences of them, or experiences which allowed us to truly know and or feel them? I also agree people are out to reduce their responsibility in pretty much most situations.

Sorry if that was too abstractly put, please just extrapolate on those absolutes. And if this derails my thread, so be it. I love when topics lead to other topics, especially because I see questions I have of INFJs being directly relevant to this discussion.

XperimntNterror · Mar 8, 2013

scarlett.page said:
I trust you are honest with yourself, I wish every INFJ and well, every person ever, was too. Rather than allowing himself to come off as awkward or uncomfortable, this INFJ can either come off as more interested and curious about something he doesn’t know or possibly doesn’t care about, or he becomes loud and authoritative in a partly rude partly humorous way. So he can be both mysterious and convicted. He’s very contradictory, idk if he just is or is acting to be.

On the “grey areas”, I agree with you for the most part. First of all, black and white definitely provides more clarity. But I do think that situations and contexts are honestly too complex, some arguably more today than in biblical times, for us to not consider expanding on black and white rights and wrongs. There is a logic to the black and white. But that logic can still exist separate from not so strict adherence of those rules. When I think of a black and white moral coded world, I think of simplicity replacing choice, freedom, and personality.

When you mention absolutes: love, justice, mercy, hate, what exactly do you mean? Do you think people are not in touch with love and hate as feelings, justice and mercy as concepts or actions? And if so, how so? Did we become disconnected from experiences of them, or experiences which allowed us to truly know and or feel them? I also agree people are out to reduce their responsibility in pretty much most situations.

Sorry if that was too abstractly put, please just extrapolate on those absolutes. And if this derails my thread, so be it. I love when topics lead to other topics, especially because I see questions I have of INFJs being directly relevant to this discussion.

Ha ha! It's funny that you say that, that I'm honest with myself... because it's true... and, often, far too honest about myself with other people. That's how I came to the realization that the zodiac wasn't an accurate interpretation of me (though it is still fun to think about). Everything you read about a Scorpio says they are "never self-effacing", but I have no idea how not to be self-effacing. I've admitted to things in casual conversation, completely by accident (I call it diarrhea of the mouth) that most would probably never admit to even after knowing the other person for years. It has made forming relationships with people a bit arduous and is often what I feel like contributed to my initial shyness with people or new environments. I stay concealed for the most part, but once you get comfortable (or in an internet forum), I have no trouble just spilling out things that make me vulnerable.

As for this whole "grey area" topic, I suppose, as I get older, I really just want the simplicity. This will sound a bit off, but I actually crave ignorance, to a certain extent. I've spent so much time dissecting and manipulating all of these different convoluted, impossible to explain or fully comprehend concepts about myself, other people, the world and what it all means and why it all is, that now, I just want to be a child and oblivious. It really ties in with my faith and living as a child of God and not a man of the world.

I really do feel like all of the expanding of simple ideas has made the world so much more unnecessarily complicated. Laws are written to cover loopholes of other laws and you end up with laws on top of laws, inside of laws, all to try and cover every base and keep things from being "abused", but how can anyone keep up with this stuff? I recently watched a documentary that said the U.S. Tax Code is over 76,000 pages thick... and continues to thicken, since it was originally written. It all just makes my head spin.

What I meant about absolute is that we don't have a complete understanding of what these things mean and we often smear the lines between them (i.e., killing in war being a "necessary evil" or viewing capital punishment for a murder as "justifiable" punishment). All we really have about these things is a perception of what we think these things mean and it's, often, malleable in interpretation. We can't fully grasp an idea like perfection or infinite. I suppose that's also why I feel a more simplistic way of living would be more beneficial; since these concepts are all left to individual interpretation... let's just keep it simple!

I know it all sounds unrealistic... because it is, but... I don't know. I'm never good at explaining myself about these notions. I've never fully "matured", but I never wanted to either. I had an art teacher who said to me that we are most creative and imaginative when we are children and I never wanted to lose that, so I keep a hope for these ideals since the reality just brings me down most of the time.

Tea Path · Mar 8, 2013

well, hopefully I don't throw grenade in the pond, but, why not ask an ENTJ?

I can't help but take charge.
I talk fast and furious because the ideas don't stop, they charge out. I enjoy it so much that I get elevated and passionate (interpreted as angry).
There's a solution to almost any problem.
If someone's in my way, I will try to reason with them, if not, mow them down or work around them. They are an obstacle. However, if said person can make a cogent argument, I'll change and readjust.
I make plans for years. I've got a 10 year plan. I knew what I wanted to be when I was 5. I am that now.
I hate when others change my plans. I get pretty angry.
I don't understand when people respond emotionally. I look upon them and blink puzzled like. I am working on that and am improving. But it certainly doesn't bother me.

Home life: I like stability. I dislike discord. drama is expelled from my life. I enjoy order and tranquility. I also like parties and entertaining. I like meeting new people that challenge me, educate me, or have potential to help me in the future.

I see an organization as an interconnected web. I know how to fix problems to help the organization move forward.

I am loyal to my friends. I'm not terribly attentive, but I would help them at a drop of a hat.

If you are unfortunate enough to have crossed a line with me, I'll cut you off and never look back.

Hopefully that helps. I also suggest browsing the ENTJ forums.

AstralSoldier · Mar 8, 2013

Emberrise said:
Woah don't think I've ever met an INFJ or seen an INFJ appear like ENTJ. My brother is an ENTJ they're strong strong personalities and key things they do will be argue for fun (take pleasure in it), go away in their rooms alone like an introvert for periods of times and become hostile to those who enter their cave, and tend to take charge in situations especially when someone is in need. As for my brother he's very articulate, carrie s the boss mindset from work to home, cannot stand idiots and may begin an intellectual battle of wits to expose them.

They also have a feeling side that's strong for some reason.. if someone is hurting they become a strong shoulder to cry on and do their best to cheer you up. And often take time to help you if you, such as if you do not know how a law works, they will take time to explain to you clearly how it works which is how they tend to show care by enlightening/solving problems you.

I often act different around my brother because he has Ni, he can clue and tap into things others can't and are blind to.

I do not claim to be expert at ENTJ's since I'm not one, just an observer.

Wow...

according to this then, I'm an ENTJ then!! Because:

1.) I argue for fun, and entertain hypothetical conversations for the intellectual stimulation, exchange of ideas, information, and to see the function of the idea. I don't do this trying to injure someone, but it's just the type of stimulus I'm STARVED FOR in a world primarily ruled by sensors...hey, intuitives gotta 'eat' too ya know?

roud:
2.) I don't think being extroverted necessarily means STRONG, it just means that where the extrovert is more demonstrative because they often show little signs of self-restraint because they're more outwardly focused, the introvert has a depth of personality because we control our personality, and draw people in towards us; I've been known to REALLY hurt people when I speak in earnest, because I see through them and air what they don't want aired; I've shown some tough guys that they're not so tough. Besides that, if I was with another intuitive, I'd probably be more outgoing I think.
3.) I go away into my room alone for extended periods and can become hostile when people just 'butt in' to my cave. It's my sanctuary, and I need some physical space for my body to occupy in peace so I can focus my cognition more...it's my command center.
4.) My ESFP/J brother can vouch for boss mentality when it's needed 'If it's no good for the company, it's got to go' is my motto. I suppose with being an older brother, (and with a more lazy minded brother) I've gotten into the role of being the know-it-all to help him out. I'm results, and progress oriented and when I'm focused on my agenda, I hate wasting time on things or not making progress; because I've got an agenda, I like to keep to it, so don't disturb it.
5.) I USED to engage in intellectual battles when I was younger, and couldn't stand when people didn't have their facts/logic right but when I realized that others around me just didn't hold up because they weren't as curious, possessing the logical endurance, or interest in heavier information-dense, and theoretical/abstract topics I just stopped because I realized that most people around me couldn't even carry on these conversations for lack of understanding/appreciating abstract thought, but when I DO meet someone like that, my mind BLAZES through information to convey my points. When I'm with another intuitive, (I don't care what type of the 8) my personality really comes alive because the proper stimulus I need is being fed to me, and I'm exciting, passionate, demonstrative, and involved, though when I'm without that stimulus, I tend to come across as more reserved to the point of boredom, cold, impassive, and nonchalant.
6.) I demonstrate my 'feelings' through helping people solve their problems as well; very rarely do I speak about my own emotions because they're deep, and it actually 'smarts' emotionally when people misconstrue my feelings.

There's a significant part of my personality that largely goes unexpressed to people that I doubt are capable of handling it, though I'm an INFJ. Inside, I'm direct, firm, rational, impatient with weakness and social niceties, and I think my surface personality's nonchalance is a way to skate by without engaging in boring conversation with others, because when you're intuitive, conversation really is one of the primary sources of the abstract thought/stimuli we need, though rarely get, so when I get it, I'm completely enthralled!

Based on all the things I actually agreed with that were present within my own personality, I'm tempted to wonder if I'm an ENTJ in disguise....? No, I definitely feel I'm an INFJ, but just very intuitive, and an active user of my Ti; I'm an information sponge, and information about topics/subjects around me actually serves to ground me in the moment by giving my Ni a means to connect to, and percieve the world around me, and manifests my 'scholarly/intellectual' side more easily.

Emberrise · Mar 8, 2013

AstralSoldier said:
Wow... according to this then, I'm an ENTJ then!! Because:

1.) I argue for fun, and entertain hypothetical conversations for the intellectual stimulation, exchange of ideas, information, and to see the function of the idea. I don't do this trying to injure someone, but it's just the type of stimulus I'm STARVED FOR in a world primarily ruled by sensors...hey, intuitives gotta 'eat' too ya know? roud:
2.) I don't think being extroverted necessarily means STRONG, it just means that where the extrovert is more demonstrative because they often show little signs of self-restraint because they're more outwardly focused, the introvert has a depth of personality because we control our personality, and draw people in towards us; I've been known to REALLY hurt people when I speak in earnest, because I see through them and air what they don't want aired; I've shown some tough guys that they're not so tough. Besides that, if I was with another intuitive, I'd probably be more outgoing I think.
3.) I go away into my room alone for extended periods and can become hostile when people just 'butt in' to my cave. It's my sanctuary, and I need some physical space for my body to occupy in peace so I can focus my cognition more...it's my command center.
4.) My ESFP/J brother can vouch for boss mentality when it's needed 'If it's no good for the company, it's got to go' is my motto. I suppose with being an older brother, (and with a more lazy minded brother) I've gotten into the role of being the know-it-all to help him out. I'm results, and progress oriented and when I'm focused on my agenda, I hate wasting time on things or not making progress; because I've got an agenda, I like to keep to it, so don't disturb it.
5.) I USED to engage in intellectual battles when I was younger, and couldn't stand when people didn't have their facts/logic right but when I realized that others around me just didn't hold up because they weren't as curious, possessing the logical endurance, or interest in heavier information-dense, and theoretical/abstract topics I just stopped because I realized that most people around me couldn't even carry on these conversations for lack of understanding/appreciating abstract thought, but when I DO meet someone like that, my mind BLAZES through information to convey my points. When I'm with another intuitive, (I don't care what type of the 8) my personality really comes alive because the proper stimulus I need is being fed to me, and I'm exciting, passionate, demonstrative, and involved, though when I'm without that stimulus, I tend to come across as more reserved to the point of boredom, cold, impassive, and nonchalant.
6.) I demonstrate my 'feelings' through helping people solve their problems as well; very rarely do I speak about my own emotions because they're deep, and it actually 'smarts' emotionally when people misconstrue my feelings.

There's a significant part of my personality that largely goes unexpressed to people that I doubt are capable of handling it, though I'm an INFJ. Inside, I'm direct, firm, rational, impatient with weakness and social niceties, and I think my surface personality's nonchalance is a way to skate by without engaging in boring conversation with others, because when you're intuitive, conversation really is one of the primary sources of the abstract thought/stimuli we need, though rarely get, so when I get it, I'm completely enthralled!

Based on all the things I actually agreed with that were present within my own personality, I'm tempted to wonder if I'm an ENTJ in disguise....? No, I definitely feel I'm an INFJ, but just very intuitive, and an active user of my Ti; I'm an information sponge, and information about topics/subjects around me actually serves to ground me in the moment by giving my Ni a means to connect to, and percieve the world around me, and manifests my 'scholarly/intellectual' side more easily.

For number 6, I meant they want to solve logic problems. For example if someone is not understanding or lacking a particular skill they will teach it. Like earlier today my brother took the time to explain to me about the Earth's orbit and why we have gravity just before he left for work. He was spreading his intellect, not his heart. They don't go searching to help people emotionally like we do, and with us, it's very much a heart thing. However from what you wrote I would never pin you as an ENTJ feels very far from it.

Veggie · Mar 8, 2013

scarlett.page said:
Hey INFJs, I don't know many of you & I'm curious about your type! Specifically your relation to ENTJs.

A friend I was positive was an ENTJ took the test but it said he was an INFJ. 1st I just assumed it was inaccurate but now I'm wondering...

Have you INFJs ever been mistaken for an ENTJ, perhaps by yourselves? If not an ENTJ, more of an Extravert or Thinker than Introvert and Feeler? If you know any ENTJs, in what ways do you get along & how do you differ?

I thought my friend was an ENTJ for many reasons; to name a few he at least appears very comfortable around a lot of people and meeting new people, he's charismatic, sees things very black & white, very well spoken & opinionated as well as witty & goofy, hides his emotions basically always but has a strong sentimental streak, doesn't ever appear to want or need help...so much more than that but do you guys feel you have a lot of these qualities too? Interestingly enough he has admitted to wearing a thousand faces, which I sensed. So maybe a more ENTJ is just a face he wears. Do you INFJs find yourselves doing that?

Of course any type can mistake themselves and tests can be inaccurate but I'm usually really good at determining my friends' types & I just thought this was interesting. Any ENTJs have an opinion on this well? Thanks for your responses!

My brother and his girlfriend are both ENTJ's. We get along really well. I'd say that most of the above describes us, except for the seeing things in black and white, which doesn't apply, and the wearing a thousand faces, which more just applies to me. They are very much consistently themselves regardless of their environment.

We compliment each other and have a lot of interesting conversations. They're both business-minded and focused (he's my little bro, but I joke that he's really about 35 at 22, lol) and can be conservative in certain regards, but they're very open-minded, as intuitives, at the same time. They take life seriously and yet they don't, if that makes sense. I'm more openly out there and visibly creative, and I tend to steer conversations from the every day (people, work, life) to the weirder, lol, but they respond well to it and offer interesting insights. We've had a lot of debates, and they've been friendly. My sister (I thought for a while that she was an ENFP, but she's an ISFP) can get more heated, as can my INTJ dad, but we're usually the peacemakers (him a little bit more so than me...usually. I can get caught up too).

They have a more analytical, laid-back, even keel approach to people whereas I have very specific approaches depending on the person and relationship. Some people I'm super deep with, some I'm just really goofy with, some I'm more reserved, etc. If you've seen an integration of all the bits then you are likely part of a handful of people in my life who has. We're all friendly and social though, and we usually stay up the latest hanging out and laughing when everyone else has gone to bed if they're visiting and the family is together.

I tend to direct the flow of a lot of our family gatherings. I have a cousin who is likely an ENFJ who does the same thing (he's a bit more controlling about it though, lol). I buy games as gifts that I think everyone will enjoy (Awkward Family Photos the boardgame is pretty win), I'll DVR a funny movie or a stand-up special and make everyone watch it, I recently I dug out Rock Band on X-Box from gathering dust in the basement and made everyone play

My ESFJ mom does the same thing too, but my ideas are usually stranger and come from a momentary whim, whereas hers are more planned and calculated (although she can bring some fun weird to situations sometimes, lol). My bro and his gf tend to go with the flow of what's been determined, and their offerings are more along the lines of the concrete, like cooking for everyone. They bring a lot of amusing banter to situations as well

I can definitely appear extraverted at times, and as a thinker too. I'm at 51/49% on the extraversion/introversion scale (it shifts from one to the other depending on when I take tests) and I considered an ENFJ possibility for a while, but I'm sure that I use Ni more than Fe (especially so when I was younger). I can appear a bit E/INTP-ish in person as well sometimes when I'm in reflection or idea mode, but I'm ultimately a feeler. Sometimes it's almost painful forcing myself to override feelings with Ti. It doesn't come naturally. I do usually hide more negative or vulnerable emotions though, as do they, although I'm much more prone to outbursts or erratic behavior. Erratic is probably the last word I would use to describe them.

scarlett.page · Mar 8, 2013

Veggie said:
My brother and his girlfriend are both ENTJ's. We get along really well. I'd say that most of the above describes us, except for the seeing things in black and white, which doesn't apply, and the wearing a thousand faces, which more just applies to me. They are very much consistently themselves regardless of their environment.

We compliment each other and have a lot of interesting conversations. They're both business-minded and focused (he's my little bro, but I joke that he's really about 35 at 22, lol) and can be conservative in certain regards, but they're very open-minded, as intuitives, at the same time. They take life seriously and yet they don't, if that makes sense. I'm more openly out there and visibly creative, and I tend to steer conversations from the every day (people, work, life) to the weirder, lol, but they respond well to it and offer interesting insights. We've had a lot of debates, and they've been friendly. My sister (I thought for a while that she was an ENFP, but she's an ISFP) can get more heated, as can my INTJ dad, but we're usually the peacemakers (him a little bit more so than me...usually. I can get caught up too).

They have a more analytical, laid-back, even keel approach to people whereas I have very specific approaches depending on the person and relationship. Some people I'm super deep with, some I'm just really goofy with, some I'm more reserved, etc. If you've seen an integration of all the bits then you are likely part of a handful of people in my life who has. We're all friendly and social though, and we usually stay up the latest hanging out and laughing when everyone else has gone to bed if they're visiting and the family is together.

I tend to direct the flow of a lot of our family gatherings. I have a cousin who is likely an ENFJ who does the same thing (he's a bit more controlling about it though, lol). I buy games as gifts that I think everyone will enjoy (Awkward Family Photos the boardgame is pretty win), I'll DVR a funny movie or a stand-up special and make everyone watch it, I recently I dug out Rock Band on X-Box from gathering dust in the basement and made everyone play My ESFJ mom does the same thing too, but my ideas are usually stranger and come from a momentary whim, whereas hers are more planned and calculated (although she can bring some fun weird to situations sometimes, lol). My bro and his gf tend to go with the flow of what's been determined, and their offerings are more along the lines of the concrete, like cooking for everyone. They bring a lot of amusing banter to situations as well

I can definitely appear extraverted at times, and as a thinker too. I'm at 51/49% on the extraversion/introversion scale (it shifts from one to the other depending on when I take tests) and I considered an ENFJ possibility for a while, but I'm sure that I use Ni more than Fe (especially so when I was younger). I can appear a bit E/INTP-ish in person as well sometimes when I'm in reflection or idea mode, but I'm ultimately a feeler. Sometimes it's almost painful forcing myself to override feelings with Ti. It doesn't come naturally. I do usually hide more negative or vulnerable emotions though, as do they, although I'm much more prone to outbursts or erratic behavior. Erratic is probably the last word I would use to describe them.

Great illustration of the differences between ENTJs and INFJs, and many reasons why I enjoy the company of INFJs! As long as it's genuine I enjoy that they can be analytical one moment, goofy the next.

Veggie · Mar 8, 2013

scarlett.page said:
Great illustration of the differences between ENTJs and INFJs, and many reasons why I enjoy the company of INFJs! As long as it's genuine I enjoy that they can be analytical one moment, goofy the next.

That's probably one of the big things that I have in common with them. We're analytical and therefore opinionated, but we aren't that attached to our opinions (save for a few, but then we don't generally feel the need for everyone else to agree with them). We can flip the switch back and forth between analytical mode and humor fairly easily. They more live in the world of what they see as facts, and enjoy expanding on them, Te-Ni, whereas Ni is fueled by Fe in my world, and changing really moment to moment depending on the environment and my company (and their perspectives).

I'm sort of always open to the next epiphany (and seek it out), and they're always open to add to their reservoir of knowledge. My dad, alternatively, with Ni-Te, is much more attached to his opinions about the data he's collected, and my sister, Fi-Se, is much more passionate about her personal feelings in the moment. We more enjoy the fun of the debate, and often end up playing peacemaker after first playing devil's advocate and pushing buttons, lol. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have 9w1's in their enneagram though (my brother has always been interested in studying law), and I have a 9w8, so that might be part of it too.

AstralSoldier · Mar 8, 2013

Emberrise said:
For number 6, I meant they want to solve logic problems. For example if someone is not understanding or lacking a particular skill they will teach it. Like earlier today my brother took the time to explain to me about the Earth's orbit and why we have gravity just before he left for work. He was spreading his intellect, not his heart. They don't go searching to help people emotionally like we do, and with us, it's very much a heart thing. However from what you wrote I would never pin you as an ENTJ feels very far from it.

If someone is spreading their intellect/knowledge to a person who is receptive/interested, how is that NOT coming from the heart, or at least a benign intent? I consider the 'heart' not necessarily to be akin to emotionality, but the desire to act positively in another person's interest when there's nothing to be gained. Now, he's probably not demonstrating emotional receptivity in a large degree, or demonstrating his potential 'good will towards men', though that shouldn't suggest that he has no ideals/hopes towards humanity at large or it's not coming from a benign intent.

Keep in mind most NTJ's use Fi (introverted feeling) as the basic desire to determine if something is subjectively good/bad, or worth sharing their knowledge/intellect through Te; if there's no feeling present to share the Te, (perhaps due to no intellectual curiosity/capacity on the other person's part) then there's no impetus(drive) to share; it's how they demonstrate they care; They share any information/area of expertise they have as a means to convey they care, or to connect to you since his Fi is his inferior function, he's probably not as practiced in it's uses/applications, though it doesn't mean he's not using it, just probably not as aware or as practiced with it.

I mean, he's not gaining anything by sharing his knowledge about the Earth's orbit and why we have gravity, so for what reason should he share? Because there's something of an impulse (Fi) to share from his resources, and free of charge! NFJ's demonstrate Fe, which is the emotional receptivity to the consideration of the other's feelings when an action may impact the other person. Different cognitive functions are utilized by different types in different degrees, but it shouldn't suggest they're operating from a heartless intent. Your bro is demonstrating his concern about your intellectual/growth development as his Te is his Dominant function and his Fi is his inferior function. He may not be as practiced with his feelings, though on a human level, he cares about you, and thus he shares with you.

I suppose you have to recognize that not everyone operates out of their feelings to satiate/quell someone's emotional experience and turbulence, but they're not without positive intent and that should count for something. If he was withholding of his intellect and was critical all the time of your lack of expertise/grasp of the areas he has this expertise in it in spite of your curiosity, I'd be VERY concerned that he was something of an prick, but if anyone gives something of themselves that they've learned, felt, or experienced, then I consider that as a positive/heart-felt attempt at opening the lines of communication if only on a small-scale, and I'd be grateful for it. ENTJ's aren't as practiced with their emotional receptivity, though they try.

As for myself, I can appreciate the ENTJ (NT's in general) because they share our mutual appreciation of logic, function, and utility because that helps my Ni grasp the subtle nuances of how a system works, and my Fe demonstrates a passion, love, or interest in it. Because I'm a Judger, and I like to bring things to completion, I need to know what is necessary, and needed to be present in order to bring things to a close, logic is simply a tool to do so, just as emotion is, though situations require the discernment to know how, when, and where these functions need to be best applied.

I believe VERY much in what Einstein says about intuition and rationale: 'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift'. Thus I simply use Ti as my tool, though Ni is my inner master I adhere to. In spite of my Ni glorification, Ti usage, and being an INFJ, not all the time is it wise, or do I go out of my way to give my heart/intellect away to everyone in an effort to help because what is there to gain by putting my heart on the line for someone unreceptive to my intent? That is emotionally irrational (and there IS a rational to emotion; one doesn't become happy when they should be angry because under each emotion is an object/situation present that elicited the thought that created the emotion) not to mention counter-intuitive to self-preservation, lest one has no qualms about letting their emotions (which to me is one of the best parts of my nature) get attacked aka the 'Doormat Personality'. You can only help those that WANT to be helped; anything else is emotion wasted in a vain attempt to reach someone simply because you acted from the intent to help/heal which is noble, but not entirely with a rational basis; at times it is most beneficial to act with rational first, then apply feeling. People have to reach out for help/aid/counsel/ and when they do, you can help them.

Emberrise · Mar 9, 2013

AstralSoldier said:
If someone is spreading their intellect/knowledge to a person who is receptive/interested, how is that NOT coming from the heart, or at least a benign intent?

I get your point. I agree. But I think again you misunderstood me again. Everyone's intentions has some emotions in them. INFJs will feel a lot of emotions in their actions and are often bent physiologically to help a person with their emotions, life etc. ENTJ it's different, they are not robots so yes they have feelings and a heart too.

cyamitide · Mar 9, 2013

scarlett.page said:
Have you INFJs ever been mistaken for an ENTJ, perhaps by yourselves? If not an ENTJ, more of an Extravert or Thinker than Introvert and Feeler? If you know any ENTJs, in what ways do you get along & how do you differ?

I thought my friend was an ENTJ for many reasons; to name a few he at least appears very comfortable around a lot of people and meeting new people, he's charismatic, sees things very black & white, very well spoken & opinionated as well as witty & goofy, hides his emotions basically always but has a strong sentimental streak, doesn't ever appear to want or need help...so much more than that but do you guys feel you have a lot of these qualities too? Interestingly enough he has admitted to wearing a thousand faces, which I sensed. So maybe a more ENTJ is just a face he wears. Do you INFJs find yourselves doing that?

In Socionics the types that correspond to INFJ and ENTJ are classified as emotivists & positivist, so there you have your sentimental streak, goofiness, ability to diffuse negative atmosphere with jokes, and always seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Both types have this, so can be confused for one another. Wearing faces is more of an INFJ thing though.

scarlett.page · Mar 9, 2013

cyamitide said:
In Socionics the types that correspond to INFJ and ENTJ are classified as emotivists & positivist, so there you have your sentimental streak, goofiness, ability to diffuse negative atmosphere with jokes, and always seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Both types have this, so can be confused for one another. Wearing faces is more of an INFJ thing though.

Good point! Yeah I've noticed that ENTJs stay consistently themselves in most situations. Which is admirable, no offense to INFJs. I don't necessarily stay 100% me myself...

ToStand · Feb 4, 2016

I thought for a very long time I was INFJ, until I understood that functionally, I am an ENTJ.

Elvish Lives · Feb 5, 2016

scarlett.page said:
Have you INFJs ever been mistaken for an ENTJ, perhaps by yourselves?

Oh no, hell no.

scarlett.page said:
If not an ENTJ, more of an Extravert or Thinker than Introvert and Feeler?

No, I've never been mistaken for anything else. I do have an analytical mind, but that's perfectly aligned with INFJ. Some hear 'analytical' and immediately conflate that with INTJ. I think there's a common misconception that INFJs are all these dopey little pixies floating through the universe with barely any voltage crackling through our wires. Not true.

scarlett.page said:
...he's charismatic, sees things very black & white, very well spoken & opinionated as well as witty & goofy, hides his emotions basically always but has a strong sentimental streak, doesn't ever appear to want or need help...

Sounds pretty normal for INFJ. Again, there's a common misconception that all INFJs are these helpless little waifs hiding under the covers in their bedrooms, that we're unable to navigate the world of people very well. That's just wrong. Most INFJs I know have their private struggles but manage to project a pretty competent face to the world. And as far as needing help, we all need it, but we know that very few (none?) are able to actually give what we need. That's why we don't ask for or expect it.

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