Do you consider yourself open minded?

Swordsman of Mana · Mar 14, 2013

the descriptions often make INFPs seem very open minded, but, in my experience, this is only in terms of ideas and social acceptance. sometimes, on issues that are very important to them, INFPs can be some of the most closed minded, stubborn people you will ever come across. if they feel something strongly about something (whether it be a belief, an emotion or a preference), consequentialism goes out the window and no amount of reason or evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

what are your thoughts on this? does this sound like you?

PS: for the record, this isn't meant to be insulting, I relate a lot to this quality myself and don't necessarily view it as bad (there are things worth considering and compromising on, but there are other times where you need to draw a line and not deviate).

Morpheus83 · Mar 14, 2013

I think it has less to do with 'open mindedness' being an 'absolute' quality and more about a matter of degree: being 'open-minded' is also relative to the person who's judging whether or not somebody is 'accepting'.

Sure -- I have strong convictions. I'm also invested in certain principles. How is it possible to be entirely 'open-minded' without showing *some* discrimination? Are scientists 'closed-minded' simply because they rely on principles to understand physical phenomena and perform experiments? Is it possible to think critically if you're not working from any foundation because you're afraid of being seen as 'closed-minded'?

Brandon Boykin · Mar 14, 2013

I think everyone, regardless of type, holds strong to their beliefs and values. And, yes, it does sound like me. I think us being forever agreeable is just another misconception of INFPs. I do think the open-mindedness means things like we're not likely to judge people for doing things that otherwise may be taboo (take a look at the sudden incest threads). Because we value inner harmony, we can relate to people wanting to be able to have that inner harmony as well, regardless of what taboo things they may do.

When something comes along that I haven't considered before, that goes against something I believe, I may publicly reject it outright, but often times it stays with me, and I'll spend time, usually in private, as many descriptions of INFPs say, "sifting" through it and dissecting the notion. Sometimes I think, "I see where that person is coming from," and I loosely hold onto the notion so that I can relate to it if it's ever brought up again. Other times, if I don't see any use of the notion, and I just can't see it from the other person's side, I log it away for good.

My INFJ friend and I had a theological debate, and I expressed the belief in universal reconciliation, and I was citing scripture that backed up my claims that all souls will enter heaven (if there is a heaven, but that's another discussion, LOL). And she just did not agree with me. She would dissect the scriptures I cited and interpreted them a different way than I had. That's fine, but it's not going to make me change my mind. She felt one way, and I felt the other. I'm not going to change my opinion just because I saw another meaning.

Or "The Road Not Taken" by Robert Frost. A professor of mine once said Frost is making fun of the idea that people read that poem as, "Oh, take the path less trodden." He said Frost was really saying, "It doesn't matter which path I took because I ended up in the exact same place regardless." Which is fine, and that may be the authoritative meaning, but Frost can suck it. I'll take away from that poem what I want to take away from that poem, and nothing is going to coerce me otherwise. Do I reject Frost's meaning? No. But the poem doesn't make me feeling the way Frost felt when he wrote it. Sorry.

Swordsman of Mana · Mar 14, 2013

Morpheus83 said:
I think it has less to do with 'open mindedness' being an 'absolute' quality and more about a matter of degree: being 'open-minded' is also relative to the person who's judging whether or not somebody is 'accepting'.
Sure -- I have strong convictions. I'm also invested in certain principles. How is it possible to be entirely 'open-minded' without showing *some* discrimination? Are scientists 'closed-minded' simply because they rely on principles to understand physical phenomena and perform experiments? Is it possible to think critically if you're not working from any foundation because you're afraid of being seen as 'closed-minded'?

welcome to the Swordsman of Mana/NTP debates. every time we try to debate anything, they have this tendency to critique every basic assumption I have about reality (and by basic assumption, I mean something as basic as "fairness is good"), so I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel every time I try to debate anything with them and we seldom if ever get to the original point that was supposed to be the topic of discussion.

Chris Knight · Mar 14, 2013

Swordsman of Mana said:
the descriptions often make INFPs seem very open minded, but, in my experience, this is only in terms of ideas and social acceptance. sometimes, on issues that are very important to them, INFPs can be some of the most closed minded, stubborn people you will ever come across. if they feel something strongly about something (whether it be a belief, an emotion or a preference), consequentialism goes out the window and no amount of reason or evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I am so open minded that I am very closed minded. That is, I will judge people very negatively for having beliefs and opinions that diverge from my more open minded ones. I have realized that this trait is not necessarily helpful for me, and I try to suppress it.

mushr00m · Mar 14, 2013

In order to make a better judgement, I need to be openminded. I need to hear all the information and will leave the door open when new info comes in so that can look openminded. Even if im disgusted at some of the things I hear, it is still information. I can't press ahead and make judgements until that part is satisfied but will still make judgements in the moment which are apt to change depending on new issues. The final judgement itself after collecting an adequate amount of information can turn out to be quite closeminded in the eyes of others and to me its being consistent and steadfast, im careful though of taking into account future problems my values could hold over others, this is all taken into consideration, to perfect my values. Thats how the Ne works with my Fi.

Sily · Mar 14, 2013

Depends on the subject.

I do have an opened-minded curiosity about many subjects.

Wellsy · Mar 14, 2013

I try to improve my view by taking in more information and assessing it the best I can. this sometimes leads to taking on alternative views until something proves it more worthy. I think on the surface seem open minded in these views of reality changing but underneath it all the values remain the same, it's hard to persuade a change in the underlying value but i'm open to my views being changed as long as they still coincide with my values, other wise theres no persuading me.

sopranopera · Mar 14, 2013

I am really open minded, but as a previous person said, I'm close minded. I'm actually really into progress and rejecting traditional values, so much that I am close minded. It's weird...

54-46 ThatsMyNumber · Mar 14, 2013

Yeah I'd like to think I was very open minded but as soon as someone disagrees with my brilliant open minded idea then they are automatically seen as irrelevant. I am a work in progress. I think I use so much heart and soul in my thoughts feelings, words, actions, that to dissgree with me is saying yeah I hear your lovely positive message, and it's wrong, that can be hard to take when love and positive thinking is the only thing you know to be true.

PurpleApple · Mar 14, 2013

I think I at least try to hear out the opinion of others. It depends on the way the state their opinion. If they are being rude to me or touch a personal emotional nerve, I'm likely to get aggravated and potentially defensive, with some 'tude in my voice. As long as the person talking isn't being a total asshole, I will usually at least listen to what they have to say. Then I will probably very quickly analyze what they have said if we are having a face to face conversation. I may not be open to changing what I think, but I will at least try to see where they are coming from. If they can explain to me why they are thinking that, then I am more inclined to be open about it. This isn't to say my values and things don't change. It takes a long time. Something that person said could trigger something, it just wouldn't be immediate.

mimesis · Mar 14, 2013

Swordsman of Mana said:
the descriptions often make INFPs seem very open minded, but, in my experience, this is only in terms of ideas and social acceptance. sometimes, on issues that are very important to them, INFPs can be some of the most closed minded, stubborn people you will ever come across. if they feel something strongly about something (whether it be a belief, an emotion or a preference), consequentialism goes out the window and no amount of reason or evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

what are your thoughts on this? does this sound like you?

PS: for the record, this isn't meant to be insulting, I relate a lot to this quality myself and don't necessarily view it as bad (there are things worth considering and compromising on, but there are other times where you need to draw a line and not deviate).

It's I think related to dichotomy thinking, which is not restricted to INFPs. To be more precise, false-dichotomy thinking. Like it's either black or white. If it's not white, it is black. If it's black, it can't be white. It can get pretty hilarious. If you don't like black, you love white. Unfortunately some people understand the world and organize their life along these lines. Although it seems that under stress people in general can have that tendency, like in a heated debate. (an evolutionairy explanation being that it's easier to make quick decisions in case of emergency)

So what can happen is when for instance in a discussion with such an INFP, whose personal construct has white on the 'good' side, and black on the 'bad' side (but like many words in our language already have an (emotional, moral) connotation like 'black cat'=bad luck), and you say 'I just bought a beautiful black teapot', the response would be disbelief, because it would undermine his mental re-contruction of how he understands the world, and require to elaborate this new experience into his system. Or just plain reject it (while scanning his memory for all 'black teapot' disasters or he will think it just hasn't broken 'as of yet'). The personal construct will have an arsenal of defense mechanisms to keep this hostile intrusion at distance, and restore peace of mind.

An open mind, means a more flexible system, that can reconcile opposites, differentiate shades of grey, and can expand alternative options/ideas/truths and be more perceptive and creative. So the development/ differentiation of Ne will probably make a big difference.

You can try and find out, where ideas conflict, by sort of reconstructing the other persons construct, for instance finding out underlying assumptions, beliefs, etc. and imagine possible consequences for accepting new experience as true.

NB as you can see I don't have 'INFP' on either a good or bad side, and not too much connected to my self-concept and self-esteem, but those who do may experience your post as hostile.

Eos_Machai · Mar 14, 2013

Swordsman of Mana said:
the descriptions often make INFPs seem very open minded, but, in my experience, this is only in terms of ideas and social acceptance. sometimes, on issues that are very important to them, INFPs can be some of the most closed minded, stubborn people you will ever come across. if they feel something strongly about something (whether it be a belief, an emotion or a preference), consequentialism goes out the window and no amount of reason or evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

what are your thoughts on this? does this sound like you?

Largely, yes.

I'm very open minded towars people, ideas etc. I can even with a calm and open mind discuss things that 95% of the population concider extremly tabu and can't even think about.

But I'm not open minded in the sense that I would change my core values because I'm presented with various external 'evidence' against it. If they are to change they have to be changed from a Fi-perspective. Not through Te or whatever else.

thompidoo · Mar 14, 2013

I'm open-minded to a point. I am very open-minded when it comes to being liberal and accepting of differences to do with gender, race, religion, sexuality, etc. On the flip side, I am very intolerant when it comes to bigoted, homophobic, racist, sexist pigs. Am I still open-minded if I do not accept others' opinions if they are discriminatory and hateful?

I am me · Mar 14, 2013

I can be open minded, but if people try to say something I don't agree with I can be really close minded. I won't argue unless I feel I can win and it is appropriate to, but for example, if someone tries to criticize my family or something, I will close up and argue my point even if it doesn't help their opinion because I will not stand around idly while people criticize my family.

Do you consider yourself open minded?

Swordsman of Mana

Morpheus83

Brandon Boykin

Swordsman of Mana

Chris Knight

mushr00m

Sily

Wellsy

sopranopera

54-46 ThatsMyNumber

PurpleApple

mimesis

Eos_Machai

thompidoo

I am me

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