Personality Cafe banner
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
No, I think authenticity is at a different level - it influences whether you respect someone as a person regardless of what they actually do. Condoning is about actions. Like, you can say I condone the way you act in some ways but I still respect you as a person.
Nobody should respect someone as a person regardless of what they do. It's all about the actions. And over time.
What do you do or not and why? And is this consistent over a long period of time? And will you give up what you claim to believe if the pressure gets high enough? If you need to sacrifice? If it will costs you friends? Votes? Reputation?
Are you what you claim you are? What are you? The same as others? (what are they...?) Or different? And when/why do you change or do you stay the same?

merriam-webster said:
Definition of authenticate
: to prove or serve to prove to be real, true, or genuine authenticate a document

Definition of authentic
2: not false or imitation : real, actual an authentic cockney accent
3: true to one's own personality, spirit, or character is sincere and authentic with no pretensions

authentic Synonyms
bona fide, certifiable, certified, dinkum [Australian & New Zealand], echt, genuine, honest, pukka (also pucka), real, right, sure-enough, true, for real
Antonyms
bogus, counterfeit, fake, false, mock, phony (also phoney), pseudo, sham, spurious, suppositious, supposititious, unauthentic, unreal
Related Words
actual, historical, original; lawful, legal, legitimate; identifiable, recognizable, verifiable; proven, substantiated, validated, verified; incontestable, incontrovertible, indisputable, indubitable, irrefutable, undeniable, undoubted, unmistakable, unquestionable; veritable, very; accurate, correct, proper; pure, unadulterated, unalloyed
Near Antonyms
artificial, factitious, imitation, man-made, simulated, synthetic, unnatural; concocted, fabricated, manufactured; deceptive, delusive, delusory, misleading

Synonym Discussion of authentic
authentic, genuine, bona fide mean being actually and exactly what is claimed. authentic implies being fully trustworthy as according with fact ⟨an authentic account of the perilous journey⟩; it can also stress painstaking or faithful imitation of an original. ⟨an authentic reproduction⟩ ⟨authentic Vietnamese cuisine⟩ genuine implies actual character not counterfeited, imitated, or adulterated ⟨genuine piety⟩ ⟨genuine maple syrup⟩; it also connotes definite origin from a source. ⟨a genuine Mark Twain autograph⟩ bona fide implies good faith and sincerity of intention. ⟨a bona fide offer for the stock⟩
 
The need for authenticity comes from within ourselves otherwise we die, in a spiritual sense. This is what is happening in our day in age, we've developed excessively clever but remained stupid to what is really in front of us. But as with all things this is a natural cycle that is happening.

Authenticity rooted in the identity is an aspiring imitation of the radiant authenticity that adheres to the flow of all that is natural, in its perfection it has no identity. Lets forget who we think we are, there was something there before we built on it. That something is the light we need. That something is the light the world needs.

EDIT--

Authenticity is having a keen awareness of balance in the timing in the sequence of events. Any action which its end result is to bring about proportion is authentic despite its appearance.
 
I used to be all about autenticity, not anymore,
now I'm more concerned with if people deserve it, or even care.
Much less stressful, yet old habits are slow to change, so I guess I act super authentic most of the time.
Trying to actually tone it down with certain people.
 
Nobody should respect someone as a person regardless of what they do. It's all about the actions. And over time.
What do you do or not and why? And is this consistent over a long period of time? And will you give up what you claim to believe if the pressure gets high enough? If you need to sacrifice? If it will costs you friends? Votes? Reputation?
Are you what you claim you are? What are you? The same as others? (what are they...?) Or different? And when/why do you change or do you stay the same?
My only issue with defining people purely by what they do is that someone can be fooled by this. That might be why someone needs to see the actions being consistent to see who the person really is. But if someone is consistently treating someone nice then turns their back on them when they finally got what they wanted, was the person a nice person up until that point or were they a sneak the entire time with hidden motives? This is why I value the inside, because actions can sometimes really be BS just as much as believing your have the soul of a unicorn on the inside. What's more important motive for actions or actions themselves?
 
My only issue with defining people purely by what they do is that someone can be fooled by this. That might be why someone needs to see the actions being consistent to see who the person really is. But if someone is consistently treating someone nice then turns their back on them when they finally got what they wanted, was the person a nice person up until that point or were they a sneak the entire time with hidden motives? This is why I value the inside, because actions can sometimes really be BS just as much as believing your have the soul of a unicorn on the inside. What's more important motive for actions or actions themselves?
Well sure, there is truth in that. Why do you do what you do? There can be hidden motives.

The opposite is simple though. You are lying and hurting me. It doesn't matter what you want me to believe about your intentions. Your actions prove otherwise.
But many prefer the lies that people tell them even though their actions speak differently. In politics, 'love', all kind of financial scams. Many or most still believe the rhetoric if the lies get repeated enough.

 
Well sure, there is truth in that. Why do you do what you do? There can be hidden motives.

The opposite is simple though. You are lying and hurting me. It doesn't matter what you want me to believe about your intentions. Your actions prove otherwise.
But many prefer the lies that people tell them even though their actions speak differently. In politics, 'love', all kind of financial scams. Many or most still believe the rhetoric if the lies get repeated enough.

well yea what people tell you and what they do can show the truth of character, but besides trying to convince someone of your intentions, I think your true intentions, whether others know it or not, should also be considered in who someone is, separate from actions sometimes. I understand if inside you feel strong and courageous but in a fight you punk out then yes you are a punk, in that instance, but someone can even say nice things and still be a piece of crap on the inside because of their intentions, so who are they?

I think it just boils down to actions cannot purely define who someone is just as much as inner beliefs cannot define who someone is. That's why authenticity is important to me, the actions have to line up with the inner beliefs, without the actions you cannot really be who you believe you are and without the belief where do the actions come from? Maybe this is just an introvert, or INFP bias perspective, but I can't see actions being important without a source of intention. You are doing things and people say you are this kind of person who does these things, but are you doing these things for the reason people believe you are doing them? At work I can act like a complete extrovert, but I am actually an introvert, they believe I'm an extrovert due to my actions, what am I, Intro or Extro, they do not know I draw energy from solitude so how can my actions in front of them define me?

I can see some areas where pure action can define people like athletics, if you are good at basketball, you are a good basketball player whether you believe it or not. But in other areas I just cant see action as representing the whole identity of a person. That's why I can't stand when you say one thing harsh to someone and they go "You're an asshole!" when in reality , no I'm NOT and asshole, you just pissed me off, but if this is done consistently then yes they would have the right to call me an asshole, even if it's because they keep pissing me off. to conclude this mess, I just want to say I think you really need both.
 
The need for authenticity comes from within ourselves otherwise we die, in a spiritual sense. This is what is happening in our day in age, we've developed excessively clever but remained stupid to what is really in front of us. But as with all things this is a natural cycle that is happening.

Authenticity rooted in the identity is an aspiring imitation of the radiant authenticity that adheres to the flow of all that is natural, in its perfection it has no identity. Lets forget who we think we are, there was something there before we built on it. That something is the light we need. That something is the light the world needs.
And does the light require us to think and act a certain way? To be and become something else? What is natural? Is it defined? Can you/we define it? Or is this the great unknown, mysticism at it's best? In that case, how do we know we are authentic... if we cannot describe or judge it... just giving up what we think we are seems only part of the solution of this kind of authenticity.
 
Personalityhacker.com said:
Introverted Feeling (or what we’ve nicknamed Authenticity) is the part of us that asks, “Does this feel right to me?”
TypeOne said:
Can you/we define it? Or is this the great unknown, mysticism at it's best? In that case, how do we know we are authentic... if we cannot describe or judge it... just giving up what we think we are seems only part of the solution of this kind of authenticity.

Authenticity ≈ Stubborn as a Donkey?

 
well yea what people tell you and what they do can show the truth of character, but besides trying to convince someone of your intentions, I think your true intentions, whether others know it or not, should also be considered in who someone is, separate from actions sometimes. I understand if inside you feel strong and courageous but in a fight you punk out then yes you are a punk, in that instance, but someone can even say nice things and still be a piece of crap on the inside because of their intentions, so who are they?
The punk found out he wasn't what he thought he was. What he does with that knowledge is another matter. But without the experience he would still be deluding himself. Only by actions is his character proven.
The liar has bad intentions and acts them out. An authentic liar/deceiver?

I think it just boils down to actions cannot purely define who someone is just as much as inner beliefs cannot define who someone is. That's why authenticity is important to me, the actions have to line up with the inner beliefs, without the actions you cannot really be who you believe you are and without the belief where do the actions come from? Maybe this is just an introvert, or INFP bias perspective, but I can't see actions being important without a source of intention. You are doing things and people say you are this kind of person who does these things, but are you doing these things for the reason people believe you are doing them? At work I can act like a complete extrovert, but I am actually an introvert, they believe I'm an extrovert due to my actions, what am I, Intro or Extro, they do not know I draw energy from solitude so how can my actions in front of them define me?
Agree for the most part. The int/ext thing is an interesting question. If authenticity is about doing the things we prefer, and in the manner we prefer, then you are not authentic in that situation. Which has an impact on your level of happiness. But if you are forced to work there because it's the only way to get enough money to take care of yourself and perhaps others, then it's a relative small matter that most of the population have to deal with. As long as the work is honest i see no severe problem there unless the difference between your preference and what is required of you becomes too much for you in some way.
For me authenticity is more about bigger issues like truth, loyalty, honor, duty. If you do your duty by sacrificing a personal preference part of the time for all the right reasons, that's authentic to me.

I can see some areas where pure action can define people like athletics, if you are good at basketball, you are a good basketball player whether you believe it or not. But in other areas I just cant see action as representing the whole identity of a person. That's why I can't stand when you say one thing harsh to someone and they go "You're an asshole!" when in reality , no I'm NOT and asshole, you just pissed me off, but if this is done consistently then yes they would have the right to call me an asshole, even if it's because they keep pissing me off. to conclude this mess, I just want to say I think you really need both.
Sometimes all it takes is one action, one decision. Rape, murder, drunk driving. Sometimes without intentions to harm beforehand. They acted 'out of character'... or did they really. Question questions... And should it be taken into consideration when determining the judgment? Ah, it was only my first rape judge. And my bad childhood and bad friends and i promise not to do it anymore.
 
See, that is exactly what I'm baffled about. To me, being honest and unabashed about doing bad things doesn't make it right. It baffles me how the human mind works in this way. If you are a bad person but at the same time, you're viewed as authentic, you get respect. Authenticity is a quality by itself.

Sometimes I wonder if it's a flaw in the human mind. We are fearful of what is unknown and hiding, rather than what is right there in plain view.

Like I feel if someone stands up and says, "I am an asshole that's just who I am", and is consistent with this message, at some point people will forgive them for being a dick and even respect them for it. Perhaps not like them, but still appreciate the authenticity and trust them, in a way.

Maybe it also has something to do with being fearful of your own flaws and appreciating being able to identify with someone who just showcases their flaws.
I think what you're describing is just someone having a very predictable personality--it's not necessarily 'authenticity' in my opinion.

But when people do embrace their weaknesses and also allow their strengths to shine through, they can often end up fulfilling a niche. It's clear what they can contribute as an individual, and what weaknesses can be expected.

I don't think there can really be one perfect person--the world would not be a brighter place if we were all clones of each other, or clones of the most perfect person imo. So perhaps it's just someone finding their niche in a community, where the community can see their unique strengths, but also avoid expecting something they cannot do (or will do).

Maybe it appears they are self-accepting and also have developed individual strengths, and can be depended on for that.

I don't think actual authenticity is always so well received. It may be people give lip service to it as a virtue, but I can think of various people who've been shunned or mistreated for what I would consider 'authenticity' throughout history. People who insisted on being themselves (or were unable to beguile) and ended up suffering a great deal, and ending up very misunderstood in their time. Eh--just thinking of people like Vincent Van Gogh or perhaps William Blake.

The wall of text thing makes me think about authenticity and what it actually is--what is more authentic, a large wall of text that's not easily digested, or something broken into smaller, recognizable pieces? I think that it's pretty complicated--anything we try to communicate or 'show' to another person will get interpreted by them in a way in which we do not control with our own 'authenticity.' It is really a kind of relationship to seek to express in a way that will be understood, and also seek to understand (or have others seek to understand).

So that doesn't always happen--sounds like the happy go lucky asshole might be very relatable to a lot of people. Perhaps he has something that seem to speak to a common humanity. Perhaps he only is valued in certain social environments.

Most of what you described as authenticity didn't really fit with how I see it.

Being seen as 'authentic' by other people doesn't seem like the best way to measure authenticity. I'm guessing the articles might be more about how to appear authentic to other people, or perhaps some kind of self-help thing where people are trying to outline ways to improve yourself into authenticity...but I probably don't view it as a strength in that way, and more as just what you thought about it before reading the articles--that it's about honesty and a willingess to reveal one's self and be understood (and so for people to be able to esteem you based on who you are and your capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses accurately (which depends on them too)). Eh--idk.

Authenticity seems like such a difficult thing to strive for--I've always had trouble with identity, as it seems we always change so that is part of identity. So if we are to be predictable, then would it mean we would have to 'fully develop' our personality and then stay that way for the rest of our relationships with other people to be authentic? But then, as you brought up, perhaps that would prohibit attempting to change or work on 'flaws.' But perhaps it means not wanting to and being perfectly happy with whatever you identify with at the moment (as far as strengths and weaknesses)? IDK--thinking about authenticity bothers me a bit. : /

Edit: I mean, honesty makes people more trustworthy in some ways because you can understand what their intentions are. But there is always an unknown in a person's personality and identity, which is subject to change, unpredictable, and could be unknown to them or just misunderstood by you. And I think our identities are a balance of what we are seeking to reveal and cultivate, and that unseen potential...maybe. So it seems difficult to define what they are without also including the unknown, so the unknown should also be included in authenticity.

Nevermind--just ignore me. It would probably be better to just read some poetry from the Romantic period. I think they were pretty focused on authenticity (some definition of it).
 
@Ermenegildo

Personalityhacker.com said:
Introverted Feeling (or what we’ve nicknamed Authenticity) is the part of us that asks, “Does this feel right to me?”
But it's not an isolated function. It's based on things that can be described and perhaps experienced by many people. E.g. the song in the video of the donkey. Can trigger all kind of feelings and ideas about what life should be all about. It can be explained and it can become a shared value or religion perhaps.

 
The punk found out he wasn't what he thought he was. What he does with that knowledge is another matter. But without the experience he would still be deluding himself. Only by actions is his character proven.
The liar has bad intentions and acts them out. An authentic liar/deceiver?



Agree for the most part. The int/ext thing is an interesting question. If authenticity is about doing the things we prefer, and in the manner we prefer, then you are not authentic in that situation. Which has an impact on your level of happiness. But if you are forced to work there because it's the only way to get enough money to take care of yourself and perhaps others, then it's a relative small matter that most of the population have to deal with. As long as the work is honest i see no severe problem there unless the difference between your preference and what is required of you becomes too much for you in some way.
For me authenticity is more about bigger issues like truth, loyalty, honor, duty. If you do your duty by sacrificing a personal preference part of the time for all the right reasons, that's authentic to me.



Sometimes all it takes is one action, one decision. Rape, murder, drunk driving. Sometimes without intentions to harm beforehand. They acted 'out of character'... or did they really. Question questions... And should it be taken into consideration when determining the judgment? Ah, it was only my first rape judge. And my bad childhood and bad friends and i promise not to do it anymore.
So you don't think the the rapist decided internally that he was gonna go through with the act? That his actions came out of pure instinct or nothing? I mean where did his actions come from? Is a decision to act on something ever made, or is it just some mindless action being done and the person discovers through their mindless action who they are? I see where you are coming from with how you define authenticity and that it is very different form my definition so it seems authenticity has an elastic definition. To me authenticity is being in an environment and putting what you feel internally into the environment, now with that said a rapist being authentic wouldn't be good for others, but the way I see it is this man needs to fix himself internally, because he could walk around treating everyone nicely, but inside he really wants to rape someone, is he a rapist in hiding or a nice person?

If I were at a party smiling and getting along with people, but inside I do not agree with what the people at the party are doing, and I secretly dislike everyone in the room, I am not being authentic, but if I leave the room and decide not to hang out with these people because I actually don't like any of them that to me is authenticity. Not putting on an outward act or doing actions that completely contradict how I really feel about the situation. Now I will say I have also experienced the other side where my actions have showed me me something about myself that I wasn't aware of before but that doesn't have a lasting change on me, it's more momentarily.

Example: I am a very confrontation avoidant person, and mostly passive in interaction with others. Not really the aggressive type. I have participated in karate tournaments though where I have had to get rid of all of that and take on a more aggressive violent attitude, and this doesn't feel authentic, it just feels necessary in the situation, but once off that mat I'm once again confrontation avoidant and passive. What am I an aggressive person or a passive person? Which one is authentic? I mean I'd say the latter since I'm that majority of the time and that's how I normally feel. Can you be permanently defined by your actions? I'm starting to think you can't be permanently defined by your inner feelings either. But it has always been a struggle for me to understand the advice "You are stronger than you think" because we assume that we know ourselves and our limits but then through actions we discover we have the capacity to do more then we previously realized, I think Te users are more comfortable with that realization than say an Fi-dom. I know I identify too closely to my weaknesses that's why I may be taking the stance that I am.

But authenticity for me works where the internal is expressing itself externally and is not being suppressed, when I think of the rapist I usually think he acted out of an internal desire that wasn't simply just discovered by his actions, but I could be horribly wrong here, you know they got those movies where the killer looks at his hands and all of the sudden he is scared of himself.
 
And does the light require us to think and act a certain way?
The light does not require anything from us, it is the eternal. However it is in our best interest to heed the signs.

To be and become something else?
Is being something you have always been something else? Depending on the perspective it can be something else.

What is natural?
In our hearts we know what is natural if we remove preconceptions, children are so precious for this reason. On an individual level it is to some degree our lifelong job to define and re-invent what is natural so as not to stray from it, and manifest things that keep the balance. When balance is sustained we look less externally.

Or is this the great unknown, mysticism at it's best?
Yes. A master usually does her work and then leaves without a trace, but does not impose work if it is not ready to be received as to not infringe on the free will of the recipients. The great unknown is working in every passing moment, but how attentive are we to its ways? Ignorance is bliss.

how do we know we are authentic... if we cannot describe or judge it
The fact that we can attempt to describe or judge it is the highest proof that we are authentic. Unrealised Kings and queens, Gods and Goddesses... spoken with the utmost humility. It goes without saying.

just giving up what we think we are seems only part of the solution of this kind of authenticity.
Yes, it may seem like a small part but it has been a part that has stagnating our conscious evolution longer than it should have. It has become a significant part. In surrendering our thoughts and concepts of what reality is we allow the universal intelligence to work closer with us toward a new collective attitude that will blossom a new earth.
 
So you don't think the the rapist decided internally that he was gonna go through with the act? That his actions came out of pure instinct or nothing? I mean where did his actions come from? Is a decision to act on something ever made, or is it just some mindless action being done and the person discovers through their mindless action who they are?
At some point there is a decision. But it's not so clear/conscious for everyone. If one's value system is weak, if awareness is low, instinct and external stimuli can make people follow a certain path to a place and point in time where they might do something that from then on defines them but it really wasn't a decision that they would like to make again in many cases if we are talking about crimes. Some change their lives completely. Others discover their 'true identity'.

I see where you are coming from with how you define authenticity and that it is very different form my definition so it seems authenticity has an elastic definition. To me authenticity is being in an environment and putting what you feel internally into the environment, now with that said a rapist being authentic wouldn't be good for others, but the way I see it is this man needs to fix himself internally, because he could walk around treating everyone nicely, but inside he really wants to rape someone, is he a rapist in hiding or a nice person?
If he hides his true motives/agenda then others cannot see the real man. But he might be true in his own mind to his own selfish sick desires.

If I were at a party smiling and getting along with people, but inside I do not agree with what the people at the party are doing, and I secretly dislike everyone in the room, I am not being authentic, but if I leave the room and decide not to hang out with these people because I actually don't like any of them that to me is authenticity. Not putting on an outward act or doing actions that completely contradict how I really feel about the situation.
I agree and have done so many times even with some family. They know i don't like them much and i'm fine with that. And for others i just lower my expectations and can still enjoy the experience for what it is and not for what i prefer most.

Now I will say I have also experienced the other side where my actions have showed me me something about myself that I wasn't aware of before but that doesn't have a lasting change on me, it's more momentarily.

Example: I am a very confrontation avoidant person, and mostly passive in interaction with others. Not really the aggressive type. I have participated in karate tournaments though where I have had to get rid of all of that and take on a more aggressive violent attitude, and this doesn't feel authentic, it just feels necessary in the situation, but once off that mat I'm once again confrontation avoidant and passive. What am I an aggressive person or a passive person? Which one is authentic?
You are what you feel and think and do most of the time. Unless it's a severe event that immediately changes you, perhaps permanently.

I mean I'd say the latter since I'm that majority of the time and that's how I normally feel. Can you be permanently defined by your actions? I'm starting to think you can't be permanently defined by your inner feelings either. But it has always been a struggle for me to understand the advice "You are stronger than you think" because we assume that we know ourselves and our limits but then through actions we discover we have the capacity to do more then we previously realized, I think Te users are more comfortable with that realization than say an Fi-dom. I know I identify too closely to my weaknesses that's why I may be taking the stance that I am.
Makes sense.

But authenticity for me works where the internal is expressing itself externally and is not being suppressed, when I think of the rapist I usually think he acted out of an internal desire that wasn't simply just discovered by his actions, but I could be horribly wrong here, you know they got those movies where the killer looks at his hands and all of the sudden he is scared of himself.
There's more than one way to arrive at a destination be it good or bad. Though there is usually a buildup of smaller events first. Which hopefully act as warning signs in the case of a negative spiral.
 
Not a huge fan of authenticity, tbh. There's a time and place for it but it's only valuable, imo, if it's being practised with consideration of others.

Without consideration of others, it's usually just selfishness. No thanks.
While I agree with that, lack of authenticity does not guarantee consideration of others either. Pretty much everybody strives for genuine human contact, which requires authenticity in the first place. I see these things more as a "there is a time and place for everything" kind of issue.

I also do not see selfishness as inherently bad, we all need to be selfish sometimes. I do not see complete selflessness as something to strive for. In this context, it would mean complete lack of authenticity which would lead, in my mind, to everlasting internal dissonance.

I guess I consider displays of authenticity as needing to be somehow balanced depending on the situation, the people I am with, etc. I am often unsure how well I walk that line tbh...
 
@OdinsVardogr

Ah the lure of mysticism is strong... I can feel the promises of grandeur just around the corner, just out of sight but still there. We will conform to nothingness and everything at the same time. And harmonize with all and everything that ever was and is and can be. The truth of this will be self evident for the enlightened ones among us.
Image
 
While I agree with that, lack of authenticity does not guarantee consideration of others either. Pretty much everybody strives for genuine human contact, which requires authenticity in the first place. I see these things more as a "there is a time and place for everything" kind of issue.

I also do not see selfishness as inherently bad, we all need to be selfish sometimes. I do not see complete selflessness as something to strive for. In this context, it would mean complete lack of authenticity which would lead, in my mind, to everlasting internal dissonance.

I guess I consider displays of authenticity as needing to be somehow balanced depending on the situation, the people I am with, etc. I am often unsure how well I walk that line tbh...
I think we are mostly in accord here. I don't view selfishness as an inherently bad thing, either. "Selfishness", to me, is literally simply "looking after your needs first". There are definitely times when this is necessary.

I just think those times are pretty rare. And I realise this is not a popular belief. I have friends who practise authenticity much more regularly than consideration of others. As a result, I am very focused on their needs...and they are also very focused on their needs. It leads to a lot of resentment on my side.
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts