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4W3 ENTP, is it possible?

[Enneagram Type 4]
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#2 · (Edited)
Statistically, it's rare. Not impossible though. I've seen INTP 4s, ISFP 4s and even an ISTP 4. NFs are predominant but I don't think it's exclusive to those types alone. Some people don't even use the MBTI and just stick with the Enneagram due to personal preference.

So to wrap it up, any personality type can be a 4.
 
#4 ·
I am an ENTP 6w5 with a really strong 4w3-fix. Actually discovering I was an ENTP was one of the things that pushed me to 6w5.

I know it's fairly taboo around these parts to say that being one E-type eliminates having certain cognitive functions, but I really think there are correlations in this case. I'm not saying it's impossible (it's not like I have accurate data on all human beings on planet earth), it just seems really unlikely.

My two cents.
 
#5 ·
@Jawz identifies as an ENTP 4w3 type.

@holyrockthrower, I think people's cognitive make-up is a bit more complicated than what type descriptions allow for though. I know for a fact I'm a predominant Fi user even though I recognize myself as a Ti dominant type, which would otherwise suggest I would Fe but it's very evident by everyone who's been around me for some time and know the functions that I'm not a strong preferer of Fe in any way, shape or form, and that my feeling evaluation is all Fi, pretty much.

That I'm a 5w4 with a strong 4w5 fix kind of explains this so yes, I am not saying there are no correlations, I think there can be, but I think my point is more that just because I'm say an INTP, my function stacking must exactly correspond to Ti Ne Si and Fe in that order of preference and development. I just don't think personally that's true at all.
 
#7 ·
My opinion is that, through personal, and prolonged observation, theorizing and testing, ENTP 4s aren't possible. This doesn't disprove their existence.

Fact seems to me that we could claim yea, or nay, on the possibility, but it depends on the accuracy of the observer.

Just to caution some, seeing certain combos around the forums isn't necessarily proof, since people are fallible. If such a "rare" specimen is found in person, or online, I'd ask for a detailed explanation of one's process of concluding the results. I'd compare, share with others, mull it over, etc... Not simply conclude on my own. For the sake of being informed, you can't be too careful.

I'm not sure if rarity has been proven one way or another in MBTI or the Enneagram, and some sources do say any MBTI-Enneatype combo is possible. I say keep an open mind, but be willing to reconfirm stuff.

I guess that's what makes using the theories so interesting. Nothing is law yet, so anyone could be right, albeit it's important to be sure one understands the theories beyond descriptions. There's an underlying pattern to behold in both that is useful in determining types.
 
#9 ·
Le9acyMuse said:
My opinion is that, through personal, and prolonged observation, theorizing and testing, ENTP 4s aren't possible. This doesn't disprove their existence.

Fact seems to me that we could claim yea, or nay, on the possibility, but it depends on the accuracy of the observer.

Just to caution some, seeing certain combos around the forums isn't necessarily proof, since people are fallible. If such a "rare" specimen is found in person, or online, I'd ask for a detailed explanation of one's process of concluding the results. I'd compare, share with others, mull it over, etc... Not simply conclude on my own. For the sake of being informed, you can't be too careful.

I'm not sure if rarity has been proven one way or another in MBTI or the Enneagram, and some sources do say any MBTI-Enneatype combo is possible. I say keep an open mind, but be willing to reconfirm stuff.

I guess that's what makes using the theories so interesting. Nothing is law yet, so anyone could be right, albeit it's important to be sure one understands the theories beyond descriptions. There's an underlying pattern to behold in both that is useful in determining types.
Click to expand...
This response may be way past due, but I am an ENTP and I am type 4w3.
Because I have no idea if you're going to read this, I'll give you a short answer.
I am very emotional at my core. However, I value objectivity higher then everything else.
I use Ti to make sense of the world, and I let my emotions out almost solely when performing music.
Differently from other ENTPs I'm very aware of other people's emotions, but differently from ENFPs I give them a number.
 
#14 ·
I read somewhere an interesting metaphore: enneagram type would be like the theme of your life, while the MBTI would be the way you would express it, so on one hand the story, on the other the type of art: music, litterature, philosophy, the genre etc... Maybe we can find a better one but I think this one has it's merits.

I think having "contradicting" type is very possible, but may lead to quite a bunch of cognitiv dissonances.

Personaly, I'm an ENTP 4w5. The question of identity is definitly what lies in my core, and I have a quite strong sensitivity (that very, very few people know about and that I can quite easily modulate by increasing or lowering it depending on my philosophical outlook on life of the moment), but i deal with them, feed them, and more generaly adress "themes" that are typical of the 4w5 in a ENTP way.

I'm making short ftm, it's really late and my english is deteriorating every new minute that passes.
 
#15 ·
Nirel said:
This response may be way past due, but I am an ENTP and I am type 4w3.
Because I have no idea if you're going to read this, I'll give you a short answer.
I am very emotional at my core. However, I value objectivity higher then everything else.
I use Ti to make sense of the world, and I let my emotions out almost solely when performing music.
Differently from other ENTPs I'm very aware of other people's emotions, but differently from ENFPs I give them a number.
Click to expand...
being emotional =/= 4.
 
#16 ·
Chaosmosism said:
I read somewhere an interesting metaphore: enneagram type would be like the theme of your life, while the MBTI would be the way you would express it, so on one hand the story, on the other the type of art: music, litterature, philosophy, the genre etc... Maybe we can find a better one but I think this one has it's merits.

I think having "contradicting" type is very possible, but may lead to quite a bunch of cognitiv dissonances.

Personaly, I'm an ENTP 4w5. The question of identity is definitly what lies in my core, and I have a quite strong sensitivity (that very, very few people know about and that I can quite easily modulate by increasing or lowering it depending on my philosophical outlook on life of the moment), but i deal with them, feed them, and more generaly adress "themes" that are typical of the 4w5 in a ENTP way.

I'm making short ftm, it's really late and my english is deteriorating every new minute that passes.
Click to expand...
K, it sounds like it could work, but thing is...why would a balanced human being (a human having sound judgment that can potentially survive independently of a keeper) have a disadvantaged...consciousness? Having a naturally occurring, negative mutation of the conscious resulting in a "balanced human" sounds confounded. Why would it be necessary? In fact, nature would have to go through more trouble than it'd have to when it could just go for what would simply, naturally occur. Is nature really so random in its balance, or can we agree that things happen according to some sort of plan, or design? Like...not seeing "black" people with blonde hair. Even with mutations, some you will see, but others you could imagine you won't necessarily. Possibly because it isn't best-fit, or because it couldn't survive 'survival of the fittest.'

My stance isn't only based on abstract concept, but I just don't see certain types in people. Ever. Celebrities brought to me assumed as being some types never turn out, to me, to be the assumed type. It logically tells me typing strategies differ, so we can't exactly, definitively say what's possible until we can have reasonable, informed consensus. Or agreeance that there's a reasonable way to reach reasonable, informed consensus.

I feel I'm opening another can of worms. Oh, well. If you don't mind humoring me, would you answer the question I posed to Nirel? "Generally, tell me why you're a 4, and tell me why you're an ENTP. Tell me what you care about doing most, and how you devise getting it done."
 
#17 ·
@Swordsman of Mana and @Le9acyMuse I have to go to work soon so I'l try making it concise.
I would start by stating that I believe being a type 4 ENTP is not a natural thing.
When first reading Mbti description of ENTP after taking an online test (besides it being suspiciously too good) I felt that they were stalking me. everything ENTP behaviors to strengths to challenges struck cord with me. I think that if I've been through different life experiences I would've been the exact ENTP stereotype.
The main difference as I see it between ENTPs and ENFPs is that ENFPs base their decisions on personal values.
For me personal values are a liability, values should be dynamic and change with what you know of the world.
As a kid I was a typical type 3 kid, very optimistic and an over achiever who cared about almost nothing then being on the top of the class.
I'll cut a few important details, but between being completely socially secluded from 1st to 10th year of school, not getting enough attention from my parents, and then being outcasted from my community at the age of 18 for being an atheist, I grew to understand there are more important things for me.
I think my Fe was always developed more then the average ENTP though, as I was always very sensitive to other people feelings and had instances like this in 1st grade; a kid started a fight with me, I was confused and angry and told the teacher "It wasn't a polite thing to do".
As I've lost my identity more then a couple of times in my life, it wouldn't be a surprise why it would be a main concern for me.
My view of the world can be seen as this. We are all the same person playing a card game. However, everyone got different cards (life experiences, height. etc.), and different tools to play them(cognitive functions and their strength). As an ENTP I'm very good at seeing connections and for me everything is connected, but not in a spiritual way.
It feels too too much to go into detail but Type 4w3 description and Sx/So Type 4 description is very much like me.
I started studying classical guitar at the age of 23, and being the greatest artist I can be is what I strive for.
I was originally mistyped as type 3w4 and that's why I didn't care much for Eneagram originally, But when reading this
Here also, misidentifications are probably the result of confusion over wing versus dominant type: 3w4 and 4w3. The primary difference between these types can be seen in their relationship with their emotional life. Threes tend to focus on task, on efficiency, on performance. Of course, Threes have feelings, but as much as possible, they put them on the backburner whenever there are things to get done—and with many Threes, that is most of the time. As Threes become less healthy, they increasingly see their own feelings as "speed bumps"–annoyances that must be dealt with but which interfere with their effectiveness. Threes want to get their goals accomplished, and then, time permitting, process their feelings.
Fours are almost the exact opposite. Naturally, Fours want to accomplish things too, but when difficult feelings arise, Fours want to stop what they are doing and process them before returning to their tasks. The less healthy the Four, the more he or she will need lots of time to sort through troubling feelings and reactions. Threes can see the Four's preoccupation with sorting feelings as unprofessional and immature. Fours can see the Three's obsession with performance as inauthentic and shallow.
It is far more common for Threes to mistype as Fours than vice versa. This is especially true for Threes who grew up in families in which artistic self-expression was particularly valued. They may mistakenly believe that only Fours are creative, while failing to recognize that there have been many noted artists who are Threes.
Click to expand...
I realized I'm most likely type 4, it made a lot of sense ,and I started looking it up.
I'm in eternal conflict and the ENTP - type 4 - type 3 dynamic helps give somewhat of an explanation for it.

In the end I feel this post turned out too long *lol work* and there are important details missing. If there's anything specific you would like to ask, please do.
 
#18 ·
First I want to adress you perception of the problem:
I think considering this as a mutation show that we are taking the problem from opposit ends :inductive/deductive.
You seem to consider that, the system being established, all the odds have to be inexistant (they have to be a barely mis understanding of the system), while I think the odds should help us to refine the system.
And you seem to completly disregard the nature/nurture polarity. But I won't go in details about that, as Nirel already talked about it.
You say you don't find black people with blond hair. Well, you do find "black" indian with blond hair: they are the kids that are put to work, constant stress and malnutrition.
But you also do find black people born with blue eyes...

As for your initial question:
At first, I couldnt find any interest in the enneagram. As an ENTP I looked towards the 7 and the 5, and I could find fitting things in both, but if some behaviours were indeed representatives, the core issues of both type were, not exactly foreign, but simply beside the point : it didnt triggers any "illumination" in me. So overall, the ennea just seemed vey unconclusive and useless to me.
Months later, I took the test, and ended up with type 4. I was quite surprised and looked into it and was literaly stroke with insight.

I won't tell you exactly WHY im this and that, it would take too long. Rather, i will explain how I see the whole thing.

from age 11 to 19, I was quite you typical 4w5, I also had cyclical depression. If I had taken the MBTI test during that time, I would have typed as INFP. After that, depression was over and I started to disregard my emotions as being just an expression of depression.
So from 19 to recently, I just stopped taking them into consideration, even though, when looking retrospectively, they were still there, just less conscious. For exemple: I write a journal each time I travel. I do remember how strongly I felt during my last trip but my journal, instead of expressing them as they were, I analyse, rationalise, philosophoes them, and it globaly shows my effort to regulate them and keep them under rational control.
I don't think I was born a 4, but life put me in a position that developped 4's attributes.
See it like that: MBTI deals with cognitive functions and thus, has more to do with how your brain is structured. It can be modulated over time, but not so much. While Enea has more to do with trauma, and thus nurture (at the core of each type, their is an existencial issue that finds it's roots in childhood).
I was definitly an ENTP child, but the ENTPness got progressively repressed from age 11 to 14. Now that I am a far more sain individual, I'm "back to myself", but I can't erase what all those years have put in me.
I was a very extroverted child, until I got repressed and turned completly introverted. But what could be seen as something negative brings in fact a lot of benefits: it enriched me. Now I'm basicaly an ambivert, which is anyway quite common for ENTPs.
With different cards I may have turn ENTP 7, but those are typicaly quite extroverted.

What enneagram has brough me is the awareness and acceptance of these feelings, and the realisation that I can express them in a non depressed way.

I may go into more details about my 4ness as an ENTP, but later. Here I mainly talked about the emotional side, so I'll just precise that the emotional thing is what creates cognitive dissonance in me. On the other hand, the 4's "quest of the self" is definitly what lies at my core. But instead of "questing" only via constant stimulation of feelings as an INFP for exemple, I quest through constant analysis (Ti) and adventure (aka search for new inputs etc.) = Ne. Basicaly, my way of trying to understand my self is to first understanding the world (which leads to dissonance: as part of my understanding of the world is that the subjectivity of feelings is ridiculously limiting).
 
#19 · (Edited)
your detailed explanation (i am like almost 2 years late but whatever): i am an intp. though i am probably an ambivert xntp or a very outgoing/outspoken/social intp. actually i always get scored practically 50/50 in tests (50% introvert, 50% extrovert and such) but i still have the intp cognitive functions, since i live primarily inside of my head and my energy focuses on my inner world. but also, i often crave social interaction/being on the spotlight/attention. things that are rare of intps due our private and socially awkward nature. so when i took the enneagram type test and realized i was 4w3 everything kind of made sense to me. i know an intp 4 is already rare, because well, 4s are the hopeless romantics all about feelings and subjectivity and fucking neurosis (no offense) and nts are rational and objective and unemotional so i guess i am a paradox or something... but well the point is that 4w3 is exactly me, but way less of a "feeler" and more analytical, rational, etc. i am the imaginative, artistic, private, introspective and intrapersonal 4 but i also have the social skills, confidence, and desire of being on the spotlight of the 3. the only inconsistency here would be, like i already said, that my fi is basically unexistent or at least poorly developed and fi is like the 4's main function... so yeah. my personality is very rich and contradictory for what you can see but i seem to be okay... here is something that will help you understand better how i work: an overview of the four and my enneagram type test results, notice how i scored 80% 4, 76% 3 and 73% 5, so i am close to being a 4w5 which would be way more logical... :)
 
#20 ·
Probably too late for anyone to read this, but I just did some tests and found out that I am ENTP and enneagram 4.

here's my enneagram test
http: //gyazo . com / 6ee1efac150987175eed8475bd01fdac


Reading you guys say that it's extremely uncommon is bizarre. Can you explain why?

I'm new here btw
 
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