Sorry, there were too many intellectual and serious threads in our forum and I was getting bored. 
ENFPs, which types gave you the best sex?
Katie Tran
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I don't understand the labeling of it--but why would I? The way I see it or the way we do things, I give either way. I either am giving when I'm giving pleasure or I'm giving when I'm getting pleasured. He had better want both! He had better want to be pleasuring me (and I'm satisfying him by enjoying it to the max) or he had better want me to pleasure him and so.... why or where does a label come into that? Dom? Sub? I don't get it. I'm a sexual feminine goddess either way.
I wish I could just let the above statement stand, but maybe it has something to do with that we don't change things anatomically (at least I don't use anything that would change things that way) . He's still the one with the penis. ? ? ? Don't answer. Does not compute. I'm quite happy with how I am right now with my husband and so is he... so I'm not sure that I'll ever want to understand anything like that. Doesn't labels kill the creativity? I'd think.
@Alassea @Llyralen
Even in my real life, it holds true that ENFP women are the awesomest, most heroic, mates, partners in crime, friends and so on imo. But in the few cases when you guys do misunderstand something or someone (in the few few cases), it's a surprisingly painful experience for me. Your response is to either "run away", judge a guy as "the Christian Guy" ahaha, or state that you don't even want to understand.
I guess I get it. I also tend to misunderstand things by substituting in what I think might be the case, and then hating that thing until my substitution is properly replaced. It's not the worst habit, but the words that come from my mouth after I do that are damaging. An ENFP's advantage is their ability to understand, and that ability can be practiced, and evolved, through criticizing ourselves when we not only misunderstand but then also judge that which we don't quite get.
In this particular example, I bet most people who inquire about the dom/sub relationship dynamic don't consider that to be the only type of relationship dynamic they could like and fully enjoy. Relationship dynamics are kind of like ice cream, in the sense that you and your partner can shop them, or you can just leave it unlabeled. I think that an unlabeled relationship is usually the base, and then it might do a dom/sub thing in the bedroom, or it might not. In all healthy cases, you'll give when you give, and you'll give when you take.
But there is never a reason to judge that which we don't yet understand, and as ENFPs we must champion this ideal. It's our bread and butter.
Even in my real life, it holds true that ENFP women are the awesomest, most heroic, mates, partners in crime, friends and so on imo. But in the few cases when you guys do misunderstand something or someone (in the few few cases), it's a surprisingly painful experience for me. Your response is to either "run away", judge a guy as "the Christian Guy" ahaha, or state that you don't even want to understand.
I guess I get it. I also tend to misunderstand things by substituting in what I think might be the case, and then hating that thing until my substitution is properly replaced. It's not the worst habit, but the words that come from my mouth after I do that are damaging. An ENFP's advantage is their ability to understand, and that ability can be practiced, and evolved, through criticizing ourselves when we not only misunderstand but then also judge that which we don't quite get.
In this particular example, I bet most people who inquire about the dom/sub relationship dynamic don't consider that to be the only type of relationship dynamic they could like and fully enjoy. Relationship dynamics are kind of like ice cream, in the sense that you and your partner can shop them, or you can just leave it unlabeled. I think that an unlabeled relationship is usually the base, and then it might do a dom/sub thing in the bedroom, or it might not. In all healthy cases, you'll give when you give, and you'll give when you take.
But there is never a reason to judge that which we don't yet understand, and as ENFPs we must champion this ideal. It's our bread and butter.
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My answer is still the same.
I kind of feel like answering this is kind of unlocking the secret to what I want in a partner. I guess recently I've been more attracted to women because of the idea of them being more comfortable with submission (I hate to generalise these things but I know it's true). But I've played both roles and neither fit perfectly. I get too competitive with a dominant person and I feel intimidated being the commander because sometimes I just need to be told what I want. All of these things need balance in my opinion.
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@RingzJr. I admit I’m squeamish about learning about what the heck dom and sub means to most people, I guess. I read a bit of 50 Shades to see if I thought it sounded hot to me. It didn’t. It sounded weird to me... like wanting to be spanked or someone wanting to spank... I don’t know I just thought it was just plain weird and kind of adult-child weird, which has nothing to do with good sex as I know it. *shrug*
My point is the labels. My second point is that I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t be both dominant and submissing to what each other wants ir gives at any time during sex— the best I know is to prolong the whole thing and be adaptive what you think the other is craving and open to what they want to do or open to trying new stuff and it seems to me that a label like dim or sub would get horribly in my way. It means lack of responsiveness sensitivity and creativity to me. Like a lot of labels...
I am unsure why I am squeamish to learn more about the pain stuff... it doesn’t seem like me at all to not want to learn, but I doubt @Alassea would have the same take on this as I do. So definitely I wouldn’t lump us together when it comes to sex— I don’t think she would appreciate it. I have a different background than most people when it comes to sex, and Im limited in experience in that I’ve only been with my husband and I would never associate Alassea with the word squeamish.
My point is my dislike for the labels. Your point is a dislike for assumptions or lack of curiosity and it is a very good point.
Do you agree with labels in this situation? Do we need “dom” and “sub”?
Actually, in the www.personalitypage.com stuff they basically say ENFPs are switches or “up for anything” but I don’t understand why anyone would stick to just one role or just one way of doing anything, myself.
My point is the labels. My second point is that I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t be both dominant and submissing to what each other wants ir gives at any time during sex— the best I know is to prolong the whole thing and be adaptive what you think the other is craving and open to what they want to do or open to trying new stuff and it seems to me that a label like dim or sub would get horribly in my way. It means lack of responsiveness sensitivity and creativity to me. Like a lot of labels...
I am unsure why I am squeamish to learn more about the pain stuff... it doesn’t seem like me at all to not want to learn, but I doubt @Alassea would have the same take on this as I do. So definitely I wouldn’t lump us together when it comes to sex— I don’t think she would appreciate it. I have a different background than most people when it comes to sex, and Im limited in experience in that I’ve only been with my husband and I would never associate Alassea with the word squeamish.
My point is my dislike for the labels. Your point is a dislike for assumptions or lack of curiosity and it is a very good point.
Do you agree with labels in this situation? Do we need “dom” and “sub”?
Actually, in the www.personalitypage.com stuff they basically say ENFPs are switches or “up for anything” but I don’t understand why anyone would stick to just one role or just one way of doing anything, myself.
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Sex =pleasures to me , if I recalled correctly I wasn't in love with my partner when I lost my virginity - I was very infatuated and the moment felt right - that's all .
I'm not that highly sexual- though I'm very kinky and dont mind talking about the subject matter. I can relate to your entp friend in that sense- sex isnt something I feel deeply passionate about at all time- sure those moment exists but most of the time it's fun and games- I'm quite playful and creative and I'm quite certain if my husband doesn't initiate sex I can go on for months without it ,
My drive is probably lowers than most people that I've encountered though.
My partner definitely gets more out of it than I do - dont get me wrong I enjoy sex just I find other matters more enjoyable
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Cringe. I wish 50 shades wasn't everyone's first introduction to BDSM nowadays. 50 shades isn't sexy, it's just downright abusive and boring.
To me it means quite the opposite. You need all three of those vitaly for this kind of thing. If anything I would say they are key ingredients to sub/dom dynamics. Another reason why 50 shades is a bad example, there's none of those things in there. But maybe it's a part of my Te > Fi where sometimes labels like these can make me feel right, confident and affirming. Like how the label ENFP feels empowering knowing more about myself and where I stand, same with my gender, and in way same with this too. Obviously I don't need to accept every label so I get where you are coming from, labelling can be problematic.
I know you don't like talking about this so I probably should be responding to any of this at all but... I'll leave this alone after this, promise. BDSM doesn't have to be about pain. I know sadism implies it but sub/dom is more about surrendering control. Contrary to belief doms are really servants because they are there to do whatever the sub wants (even if their scenes imply otherwise). If the dynamic isn't like that then it's abusive and dangerous.
I dislike (or sometimes even hate) any kind of labeling too. It's not the label what makes those things work, it's a special feeling oriented towards your partner you get out of this kind of play which I don't want to label
I could compare it to falling in love to the same person again. If you or anybody else has such kind of interest or fantasies, I'd encourage to explore as it could offer fascinating experiences when done right.50 shades book wasn't that bad at all (much better than the movie) but it mostly pictured Christian's broken or crooked personality and didn't help people to understand the topic any better. Actually it could present a totally wrong image about what such things are about
I've learned a lot and practised things which fall into such category during recent years and it doesn't look anything like it's shown in that movie or book And it takes smart people to no mess anything up It could take years to fully understand the actual concept and do it right way. Too bad that there is only very little objective information available from which one could learn and avoid doing all those mistakes by themselves. This was quite one struggle in my current relationship and we've resolved that for now.To me great sex isn't about physical (although physis is involved too of course), it's mental connection with your partner and imagination too which make it deep and sky high. I think me and my INFJ have done good job reaching there
Can't imagine it could become whole 10 levels better any more As it's not about tangible physical fascination for me, can't exactly understand what has high Se to do with it Btw I don't know if my sex drive is high or average but the whole thing seems to definitely became even higher than in my twenties (I'm now around 40) since we added some spice to our live.
Sometimes I've ever wondered if it isn't totally ENFPish thing as you create this fantasy world inside your mind by yourself - nobody else can do it for you. This was one of the toughest concepts for me to understand to be honest.
I'd rephrase it: it's actually not about anybody serving or commanding anybody
It's about cooperation, motivating each other and working together towards some goal which both want to reach, implementing it through secret fantasies Dang how difficult it was to reach to that conclusion for me The energy isn't flowing from "dom" to "sub" ("" is intentional as I hate those terms) or vice versa as they aren't opposite ends of the straight line. I see it as a circle which ends meet.In old times it was called just love
Of course everything which I said here and in my previous post apply for well working long term relationships. Temporary or one night stands might have it differently but I can't speak for those.
Well assumptions have their place in logic, what I'm referring to is a particular kind of ENFP negative judgement. So for example, a logically sound assumption could be like, "Well I heard it's dangerous in this neighborhood. Assuming that's true, I'll tell my kids not to play outside." That's a judgement based on sound assumptions, it's not damaging or ruthless by any means. A ruthless ENFP judgement would be like "Oh this girl just mentioned her interest in a kink that I don't really identify with. SO I'll assume she's a weirdo, who I can't communicate or cooperate with, AND I'll stop texting her without warning." I think this particular kind of assumption is like the opposite of everything an ENFP stands for; it's not only hurtful, but those assumptions were also based on a weak or immature understanding of the subject matter.
In this one psychology course, they taught us to name the behaviors we would like to remember, or obliterate, because the brain can deal with name flexibly. So what would you name this particular kind of assumption that I'm struggling to articulate? I'm sure every ENFP you've met has done it before, proudly, in spite of their track record of being understanding and empathetic powerhouses. What could we name it?
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Mm, cooperation is important of course as well. Saying it's not about serving or commanding is just kind of ignoring the point of the words though in my opinion. I mean, you don't have to use those terms but it's a little more complicated than simply "love" because it's a different flavour of that and for some people isn't even related to love at all. I mean, maybe you don't like the labels but with that kind of mentality it's like "why do we use words at all?" these words still hold meaning to some people so they are not any less important. I agree that sub and dom aren't as binary as people tend to see it though.I'd rephrase it: it's actually not about anybody serving or commanding anybody
In old times it was called just love
Of course everything which I said here and in my previous post apply for well working long term relationships. Temporary or one night stands might have it differently but I can't speak for those.
(Disclaimer: There's nothing wrong with disliking labels. You're not gonna die, or harm anyone, if you dislike labels.)
I think labels and categories can be beneficial if we're creative. For example, someone new to MBTI might naively assume that all of our labels are just limiting constraints, and they may naively judge us all as irrational weirdos, but I know that although you're labeled as an ENFP, you're still a unique nugget, regardless of your label. For people on personality cafe, labels aren't limiting but their empowering, because now we have a language with which we can easily acknowledge each other's tendencies, preferences, strengths and weaknesses. It's like learning a new vocabulary and using it to better understand people, not to box them in.
Likewise, labels like dom and sub are only useful if you have a seasoned understanding. Without understanding, being labeled as submissive would just confuse you, and make it difficult for you to satisfy your husband in the various ways he needs or wants. A submissive person with wisdom may act differently than a dominant in general (like how an INTJ generally acts like an introvert), and yet you'll find them acting as the dom whenever it would be best suit them and their partner. Fluid minds aren't ever restricted by labels, because they don't WANT to be restricted by labels. They want to use labels as languages to discover insights, about themselves and other people.
Like look at this:
If his partners were familiar with the language of dominant and submissive, they may have been able to better identify and balance the kind of affection he wanted. Every new perspective heightens your intuitive power, adding to, not replacing, what's already there. No labeling system will reduce the knowledge of reality that you currently have!Falling Foxes said:
Does that make sense?
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@RingzJr. Probably name it just “disgust”. Or disassociation. Lol. Which I think ENFPs do less than most types but there is actually a really measurable thing that happens in the brain when this happens.
I read Dario Nardi watching a guy talk to a girl on a EEG and he was in to her and it was showing up as the blue halo (he must have had Fi— this makes more sense if you go check out the neuroscience he is doing, I have a thread on the NF page) and I bet the sex area was lighting up too and all of a sudden the girl said her family was Evangelical and the guys’s brain went green (the disgust/disassociation brain wave shows up green in a EEG) and Dario Nardi said it was hard as a research team not to laugh watching it. The girl picked up the response and back-tracked and said “My family in Brazil is Evangelical, not my immediate family here”. But the guy had been so disgusted that he never listened to her with active listening again or got at all interested. I don’t know what makes us disgusted— it’s a very basic primal thing like fear and love.
I read Dario Nardi watching a guy talk to a girl on a EEG and he was in to her and it was showing up as the blue halo (he must have had Fi— this makes more sense if you go check out the neuroscience he is doing, I have a thread on the NF page) and I bet the sex area was lighting up too and all of a sudden the girl said her family was Evangelical and the guys’s brain went green (the disgust/disassociation brain wave shows up green in a EEG) and Dario Nardi said it was hard as a research team not to laugh watching it. The girl picked up the response and back-tracked and said “My family in Brazil is Evangelical, not my immediate family here”. But the guy had been so disgusted that he never listened to her with active listening again or got at all interested. I don’t know what makes us disgusted— it’s a very basic primal thing like fear and love.
Hm, that peaks my interest. I gotta get into this Dario Nardi person.
But I don't want to call it disgust because it's possible to be disgusted at the right times. Like if someone is bullying your friend, or talking about doing so, I feel like it would be a virtuous time to feel disgust.
What I want to name, is the moments we feel disgust at ill-times. Like when we judge someone for having certain kinks that we don't understand. Feeling disgust is primal and not bad, but feeling disgust at that certain time just makes it hard for people to open up to us, and it makes us say ruthless things. *shrugs*
You can't stop the disgust feeling, but feelings do listen to reason. If you're reasonable, then you'll feel disgust at the right times and not be an ENFPnis. Maybe that's what I'll call it.
Again, I said that there are those who like those kinks and I don't care. It's not for me. I'm not judging anyone.
However, you can't guilt trip someone into liking something you're into like you did just now and then think us close-minded for not caving in.
I don't get squeamish per say. It takes a lot to unsettle me or make me squeam, but pain or heavy kinks that I often read about from those who partake in it just doesn't do anything for me.
The ESTJ that I spoke about was a nice person, but it seemed he was insistent on having "roles" in the relationship such as who was the dominant, who was the submissive, who was the alpha, etc. and yes. I am entirely turned off and don't feel guilty about it.
Imo, he's better off finding a kinky INFP chick to fulfill those desires. I'm too unenthusiastic about it and just don't care for labels.
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@RingzJr. Well, that was a good example, wasn’t it? That guy closed his mind to the girl even though she likely has nothing to do with what he is disgusted in (obviously he didn’t like the word Evangelical). So right! It was inappropriate. And I don’t think it was an ENFP. I do think we do this less than other types. The Js seem to have disgust on their faces often it seems to me. Lol. And I am also trying to figure out why I feel squeamish with learning about pain and sex. Shrug.
But since @Alassea was instantly turned off by the ESTJ talking don and sub then I say just the ESTJ part would have turned me off anyway. LOL. And that’s not right of me, is it? But I have had such awful experiences with ESTJs. I did date one once, though, and he wasn’t so bad and in fact I just got a pang of nostalgia I wasn’t expecting.
Anyway... it’s a good point, I hate it when I know this happens the moment I say my religion or the moment someone hears ENFP perhaps? It’s not fun to be on the other side of someone’s disgust. And that feeling like “I’m a human instead of the word or experience you just reacted to”.
But since @Alassea was instantly turned off by the ESTJ talking don and sub then I say just the ESTJ part would have turned me off anyway. LOL. And that’s not right of me, is it? But I have had such awful experiences with ESTJs. I did date one once, though, and he wasn’t so bad and in fact I just got a pang of nostalgia I wasn’t expecting.
Anyway... it’s a good point, I hate it when I know this happens the moment I say my religion or the moment someone hears ENFP perhaps? It’s not fun to be on the other side of someone’s disgust. And that feeling like “I’m a human instead of the word or experience you just reacted to”.
Hey guys, let's not derail.
ENFPs who are lurking, please answer and share too.
ENFPs who are lurking, please answer and share too.
Yep exactly. It's actually not important how we name those terms, I just don't like to use those particular ones by myself because they're often misunderstood and often mislead people to understand whole stuff wrong ways
But no wonder that those concepts are misunderstood if you look at what's displayed in mainstream porn etc 21 - 40 of 82 Posts
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