I feel like literally every man I have ever known is fond of his mother, some to even a problematic extent. (There seems to be a cliche that how a man treats his mother has something to do with how he will treat you, and I think it's nonsense.) Yet women seem to describe various slights by either parent. Why is this? Are girls treated worse by parents, do they notice it more, is it both, or something else?
Mommy/Daddy Issues by Gender
galoshes
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The other possibility is that it isn't simply mom not getting along with dad, but dad could actually be abusive.
The son could feel threatened while around dad, because dad is abusing mom or the child, and mom tries to be extra loving/supportive of the child to make up for the abuse of the father.
The male child may also end up finding themselves in a position where they become the rival with the abusive father--they may need to try to protect themselves or the mother from the father, even before they are capable of caring for themselves.
personally, I more so watch out for men who have resentment towards their mothers or unresolved anger, because the mother was helpless or had some mental or physical illness, or neglected them--because if a man doesn't work through this kind of resentment and anger towards the mother, it could end up being projected on me and possibly played out in domestic violence. My ex, after we broke up, went on to have two arrests and one convictions for domestic violence with his future partners, and he had this type of hate/resentment of his mother for not being there for him, because she was disabled. I think it fed into his aggressive behavior towards women in the future.
I can't be a man's therapist, and he has to do a lot of work on himself--I cannot solve his problems with a mother who failed him when younger.
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Oh sorry--my point about a son who has an abusive father is that some of his behavioral and relationship problems will come from the abuse he endured, not his relationship with his mother as much.
He actually has daddy issues if daddy was violent, but society doesn't like to look at this.
Likewise, I actually have more issues with my mother than I do my father, and so I may be seen as a "daddy's girl" but realistically, most of my relationshjip problems probably stem mroe from complex problems regarding my relationship with my mother and the way she did or did not give me support or kindness or safety as a child.
He actually has daddy issues if daddy was violent, but society doesn't like to look at this.
Likewise, I actually have more issues with my mother than I do my father, and so I may be seen as a "daddy's girl" but realistically, most of my relationshjip problems probably stem mroe from complex problems regarding my relationship with my mother and the way she did or did not give me support or kindness or safety as a child.
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There are so many dynamics. Some of that competitiveness can get really extreme though.
For me, my mother often felt she had to be my mother and my father, and she's STJ so she actually does have a lot of qualities that society sees as masculine.
She doesn't really understand me, but she was always honest--but sometimes too honest and also chronically critical. I heard almost no positive things about myself in my childhood, and I suspect she may also have some kind of ptsd or something and also flies into a rage easily, acts cold....
Like I love my mom, but shes not a warm cuddly image that some think of mothers. One of her greatest strengths, and I feel glad she raised me with this expectation, is honesty though. I can handle honesty and I am honest. But I also try to be sensitive to people's feelings, tactful, and care for their feelings as well.
Plus she never pushed gender norms on me--I was more "girly" out of my own desire to be--she never tried to dress me up or lecture me on being feminine, which a lot of mothers do to their daughters. And while I used to wish I had been better prepared to take on that role, now I'm actually grateful that I never felt forced to participate in that by a close family member, unlike many girls.
Relationships with parents can be so hard. And relationships with children--I mean from her perspective, she probably didn't understand me very well either with her being STJ and me being FP
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But in general, the mother knows the gender rules for women better than the father, and she teaches the girl and holds expectations for her to conform.
Same way fathers often try to teach their sons to become men, and man up etc.
This is normal, beyond competition really. But sometimes competition can actually get extreme--so you may want to think about your own relationship with your mother, because the guys likely did not have their mothers competing with them the way you did. And perhaps you see that as being treated special, when it could be that--but it could also just be they don't have to be the socializer into the male gender role for their sons beyond asking them for help or teaching them how to socialize with women.
But the mother doesn't have to give as much "tough love" to a son. Idk--I'm talking in generalities and it's all unique. So many different possibly complex relationships with family.
My dad raised me to be the son he never had.
My mom just got annoyed when other people complimented me on my looks, she ate it up when people said we were sisters, stupid stuff like that. Mostly she taught me by example--how to run a business.
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I really dislike competition, so I'm lucky I didn't have to deal with that dynamic much. My mom does always feel like I'm being didactic or lecturing her, or I think she's stupid though.
But it's not really her worries about other people's perception of both of us as much as she just idk..resents me for how I am, and perhaps how different I am. And she is very reactive and feels I'm judging her when I'm really not. I also think she's E1, so she's actually far more judgmental than me, and perhaps that's why she projects that onto me.
If a man were to show me interest over her, she would think the man a pedophile and be disgusted and condemn him--so I'm lucky that I never had to deal with the dynamic like my non-bio sister who's mother was so jealous she would actually vie for attention from my sister's boyfriends. My mom did date a lot when I was growing up but she never made me feel like I was competition, and the only times a guy did seem to possibly appreciate women her daughters' age, her reaction was sheer disgust and horror at his lack of character, followed by quickly ejecting him out of her life and putting up a strong line of defense in case he ever tried to approach again.
Lol maybe I learned some of my high horsery from my mom. She is blunt and very Te and very critical. And I'm lucky she did sort of shelter me, even though it wasn't that good for me either. She did the best she could with the NF alien child she had to care for while trying to battle back the rest of the shitty world as an STJ.
She is slightly competitive with me over the relationship with my child/her grandchild, which is annoying af but w/e I just think it's insecurity and she's said she sees herself as having some qualities of a narcissist but tbh I don't think she is. She does have some kind of mood/reactivity disorder though and can be quite aggressive, and has been all through my lonely childhood when it was just the two of us for much of the time--hence some of my issues.
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My mom's also an immigrant so I think there are cultural differences that impact how children are raised in a society different from the home culture @galoshes but my mom is a Western European immigrant so compared to my fathers side she is much colder, much more sarcastic and critical and into opinions/politics than many American women. Not sure if I generalized it right, but there are subtle cultural differences. So some of her stuff might seem more normal in another culture idk
ok I can see this socially. Though my mom is also American, but she's very much in between cultures.
ok I can see this socially. Though my mom is also American, but she's very much in between cultures.
Yeah so in Chinese culture the son would definitely have preference.
My mom kinda thought I'd be like a walking doll, and when I wasn't, she lost interest. Cause like you said, NF kid is alien to STJ.
Maybe it's possible I have made a life out of exceptions. I keep finding exceptions that work, because the rule works so poorly for me. So maybe rules don't matter.
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Yeah, my Hispanic grandma used to try to dress me up like a doll, but she finally surrendered her goals to my lack of interest (and screaming and crying when people brushed my hair) as me being more "virtuous" lol...
Like I remember when my dad joked about me having "squirrels under my armpits" as a young woman, refusing to shave, and my grandma said it was decent that I didn't shave my legs nor wear shorts (Hispanic women are often very chaste tbh). My grandma let me know that she never wore shorts either (because of some kind of old fashioned virtue?) but she did really want to dress me like a doll....lol
I just set up the porcelain doll she gave me of Shirley Temple as a child (she was obsessed with my curly hair since indigenous hispanic children often have straight hair). I really love her--she was much warmer though, all of my hispanic side of my family was way warmer and more gregarious and more feeler-y than my mom's Western European immigrant side.
Asian cultures, I do not have in my family though--they are much different in some ways, having spent time with Thai family as a child, for childcare. There is more emphasis on always bowing to elders not only for knowledge (as in Hispanic) but also to not...disrespect them. There's much more focus on respecting family, bringing respect to a family--I assumed it was part of face culture.
Hispanic is really broad and my side is from Northern Mexico so just in that part of my family, it's less about how you make your family look and more about how connected you are, but it's also very matriarchal in my family. My grandmother really was a matriarch, leading by virtue. And my father puts her on a pedestal, but part of that could be that, like I described, his own father was abusive and he had to step into his fathers' place, like many hispanic kids in America have to do for their family, to support his mother and his siblings. It's more about family support--working in the fields as children to help put food on the table. Always opening your house to family (why homelessness is generally lower in equally poor hispanic communities may be due to the communal living). But not really being harsh--not cutting people off unless absolutely irredeemable (as in the person is abusive or a danger to the rest of the family).
@intranst yes my relationship with my mom is so strained--I will and do love her and want to improve our relationship (I think it's gotten better for both of us in older age) but I don't think I'd be able to date an STJ unless they were very different from my mom. There are some pretty big issues and blind spots. Of course love and family goes beyond mbti. STJs imo have a lot of trouble in feeler dominated situations as well (like preschool). Feeler woman communities (especially with a lot of Fe) can actually be quite brutal to STJ women, who are more unusual among women as thinkers.
Eh, I guess more specifically it’s ‘duality’ that I see a problem with (INFP x ESTJ), again cuz the way the two types control shit is even more similar. It wouldn’t be far off from dating (using that word to suggest more closeness than superficial) the same type.
If this is true then the average person is retarded for not liking the parent that treats them better I guess.
What if they were both problematic?
Then dislike the more problematic one more
But we can't figure out which was worse lol
Yeah there's a reason I wanted to be a tiger and not a lion.
Hippos be savage, man, I told you.
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