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INTP vs INTJ on religion, who's side are you on?

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Are you with the INTP or INTJ on this matter?

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1 - 20 of 34 Posts

B3LIAL

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So I posted this discussion on a thread in the INTP board a little while ago, and I decided to make it into a social experiment. I wanna see if people of my own type or other types agree with me or him.

NOTE - This is not a thread trying to guess what either type would say on this matter, it's just a real conversation I had recently with an INTJ.

It isn't exactly word for word, and I've tidied it up a bit.

INTP - INTJ conversation - Religion.

INTJ - Have you seen all of these religious idiots spouting their fairy tale none-sense? It needs to be stopped.

INTP - Although I'd agree that religion is harmful in someways, I don't see the harm in letting people believe in their fantasies, and it does sometimes inspire good.

INTJ - Rubbish. It suspends critical thinking, starts wars, rules certain societies with it's flawed morals and is holding the human race back.

INTP - I think we could do our best to erase the negative effects of religion, but I think in someways it's not such a bad thing. Religion strives to understand the way things work, just like science does.

INTJ - How dare you compare science and religion. They are entirely separate you fool. One deals in blind faith, one deals in evidence and observations.

INTP - Yes but religion shows mans desire to gain knowledge and understand, and it's that same drive that has lead people to embrace science.

INTJ - But they go in completely different ways of doing it, and comparing them is just ridiculous and we don't need views like yours if we're going to go forward. Science has a track record of success, religion of failure. Who's side are you on here?

INTP - I'm not sure.. there are different ways of looking at it...

INTJ - Stop being so indecisive and say something conclusive! It's seriously annoying!

INTP - Calm down bro.

INTJ - Don't tell me to calm down. This is a serious issue!

INTP - lol
 
#2 ·
When I was younger I kind of had the view that this INTJ has. But as I got oldered, I stopped. Looking back, it's silly. It's not that my reverence of science has faded, but that my respect for religion, or at least religious people, has increased. I think it's also because everyone around me views religion as scum-of-the-earth, kill-it-with-fire-and-magnets. I'm too lazy to go look on the original thread, but he sounds really angry.

I'm curious though, are you wondering if this might be a difference between INTPs and INTJs?
 
#3 ·
Fake.

A real INTJ is into Hermetic/Hindu/Buddhist/Kabbahalistic occultism.

That "INTJ" is just a INTP who needs to get laid.
 
#7 ·
Neither.

I definitely can't say that religion in the modern era contributes much to science. In ancient times and earlier days, maybe a bit, but frankly enough people believed in the objective truth of the world without it.

However, I think we'd be losing something if we eradicated it. One of the key things removing religion is supposed to is preserve people's freedom to live their lives, right? Well freedom of religion is part of that. Certain elements of that freedom are more undesirable than others, and those strains ought to be done away with, but...I mean what harm have the Quakers done lately?
 
#10 ·
Having lived in a strictly religious society has led me to side with the INTJ here. I have seen talent wasted, people dying, killing, and committing misdeeds in the name of religion. Religion may have served a purpose way back when people lived in caves, and were scared of thunder, but I don't see the faintest reason for a person to hold on to it in this age apart from getting a sense of comfort out of it and the "need for belonging" being filled, both of which, I personally regard, as forms of weakness.
 
#11 ·
The way the INTJ in question is defending science leads me to believe that science is his religion. And he's quiet the fanatic. Although I am not a religious person and I certainly see flaws with some religious institutions (especially The Vatican and some Islamic religious branches) it is very foolish to say that ALL religion has no purpose and is nonsensical.

Also: a lot of religious people are scientists (Even Einstein).

Furthermore: religion does contribute to science. Creationism is a scientific theory for example. It's not one I agree with (at all) but saying it's not scientific is well....somewhat stupid in my book.
 
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#12 ·
The INTP side of the discussion is "more" right, imo, but I don't agree fully with any of the positions.

A huge part of humanity is drawn to thinking that isn't based in cold, hard facts. You will never change that by eradicating religion. In fact, no-one will ever succeed in eradicating religion, because the only kind of system that would attempt that would be of a semi-religious, dogmatic nature. Some people will want to continue believing that science has it wrong in a number of areas, or that there really is a huge conspiracy going on regarding subject X, and you simply can't change that.

What I believe would be beneficial, however, would be to minimize the amount of people who actually are dogmatic, and to promote a more relaxed way of viewing religon. It's possible that this can be done by having people of different cultures "rub" against each other and realize that perhaps the other person isn't so bad to begin with. It's possible it can be aided by a lot more information, and by focusing a larger part of the early education people receive on ethics and respect. What's completely clear, though, is that this necessarily would be a long-term, multi-generation paradigm shift.
 
#13 ·
I don't agree with either of these positions. Also furthermore, the INTJ side is extremely poorly represented with this... uhm... tard. Not like this particular position must necessarily prove that he's an INTJ either. He's just an atheist tard and let's leave it at that.
 
#14 ·
Meh, I won't side with any of them, as I have my own ideas about that topic, and well the supposed INTJ seems like those dogmatic science/atheism lovers that bash anything that contradicts their worldview.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
ephemereality said:
I don't agree with either of these positions. Also furthermore, the INTJ side is extremely poorly represented with this... uhm... tard. Not like this particular position must necessarily prove that he's an INTJ either. He's just an atheist tard and let's leave it at that.
Click to expand...
As I said in the OP, I never meant to make it out like this is how all INTJ's are going to think, this was just a conversation between an INTJ vs INTP.
 
#17 ·
I don't think I entirely agree with either, but if I had to choose I'd go with the INTP. I think it's very unlikely we'll ever get rid of religion, and even if we did, there would still be wars, irrational thinking, flawed morals, and there would also still be people doing good works and creating beautiful works of art, without religion to inspire them. Those are all enough a part of human nature that people would find reasons to do all of those things, both the good and the bad, without religion. I don't believe all religions are either equally likely to be true, or equally beneficial/harmful. Religion fulfils some of our deepest psychological needs, so if we want people to abandon their religions, we need to find some other way for people to get those needs met. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic, but that's the brief version.
 
#18 ·
I agree with the INTJ's message/idea but disagree with his/her rudeness/emotional overtones.
 
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#19 ·
I side with the INTP more so than the INTJ in this argument. Getting "rid" of religion is getting rid of a huge chunk of human history, which is silly. I don't think one needs to believe in just science or religion. I think both can compliment each other quite nicely to be honest. And "religion" is such a broad and encompassing term. Not all religions depend on blind faith or just believing the writings of a holy book. Both are examples of humanity trying to come to a greater truth and explore the mystery that is life as we know it. One must look within one's self (religion/spirituality/ect..) and out into the encompassing world (science) to learn more about this greater truth and unveil the mysteries.

Er... or to attempt to unveil the mysteries and learn more.
 
#20 ·
I don't agree with either side. They are both misguided.

Religious institutions (especially Christianity) advanced science as early as the Middle Ages. To say they don't have a profound impact on each other shows a closed-minded perspective. And there is nothing harmful about the Christian religion. It has been the rock and foundation of modern society.
 
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