[MissNobody]

My brother is an INTP (according to online tests and from reading profiles).

He has a habit of playing devil's advocate. He likes to say things that appear to be his opinion, but they often aren't. He often makes comments that I find offensive and I will react to them by giving him a lecture, but then half way through my lecture I realise he only said it to wind me up.

Recently my brother did the same thing to a friend of mine, but this time we were having a serious discussion (on facebook) about the London riots. My brother posted 'casual' comments that were offensive to me and my friend.

Now, my friend has never met my brother so has no idea what he is like. He took my brother's comments seriously and ended up calling him scum, racist and fascist.

My brother was offended by this and started telling me how he was just expressing different points of view that weren't neccessarily his own. He was only 'joking' was actually how he put it.

I ended up playing mediator in the situation trying to get everyone to understand each other. In the end my friend apologised to my brother for calling him scum etc, but my brother refuses to apologise for saying things that were offensive.

I'm worried that one day my brother will get himself into a lot of trouble because of the 'casual' comments he makes. (Although he usually reserves these for his family rather than blurting them out to strangers.)

Do you guys enjoy provoking people/playing devil's advocate?

 

[Mimos]

I don't know about your brother but I enjoy deep thought about the reasons why people do things. Without actually knowing what his comment was though and the full context in which he said it I cannot comment as to why he said what he did. If it was a joke like he said he was probably trolling.

As for not apologizing for what he said he probably feels (I am just putting this in terms of how I would react) like the situation has not been explained logically enough from his standpoint for him to apologize and retract what he said and other people are just being too sensitive about the subject.

As for the family thing yeah he feels comfortable sharing his thoughts with you and uncomfortable with strangers.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think it's a familiar pathway for NTP. It's how INTP challenges ideas in order to find out what is right; I think for ENTPs it's a way to hop around all the possibilities and just "who they are."

ENTP, as an extroverted type, seems to enjoy doing it much for its own sake, since the goal is not necessarily to pinpoint the truth or falseness of the idea but the actual engagement and interplay itself has merit.

You will see a range of behavior across the NTP spectrum.

 

[Critix]

Yes, definetly, but I do keep tabs on what I say (or try to). Usually I'll do this when faced with some theory, especially when discussing face to face and you can be more spontaneous then the the to-and-fro of conversation really lights up when you play devils advocate. As long the contrary posistion is rational and used more to learn what the other guy has to say then I thinks it is quite a useful habit for learning and critical exploration of different perspectives.

Just for the sake of annoyance or arguement though (sometimes guilty) its pointless and counter-beneficial.

 

[L]

I learned a long time ago to stop making "casual" comments so I know how your brother feels. You can't really argue with an INTP so instead of having a conversation (it probably will turn into an argument) sit him down and tell him to be careful and whatnot, don't forget to be really sincere. And I personally don't think it is to mess with people as I myself used to do this quite often at high school (but I hated 90% of the people there) I just did it to stir up a debate...sadly the only debates I got all started out the same way....and ended the same way... they'd get pissed off, I'd get pissed off, they all would leave feeling justified, I would leave never to return from my own world (untill that godsend of a 3:00 bell rang) from just getting annoyed at the douche's for not wanting a civil debate, it's like fascism to debate over anything at my old school or something.

 

[MissNobody]

Trolling sounds about right...hmm.

Basically myself and my friend were trying to get people to understand that the rioting is a consequence of more than just a reacton to one man who was killed by the police. We explained that certain areas of society have been abandonned and left to determine their own right and wrong. I'd post the whole conversation here if it wasn't so damn long. But basically my brother was throwing contradicting comments here there and everywhere including:

'New World Order please'
"I'm all for hierachy... give the people too much power and you get this!!"
"that's why we should ship them to Australia"

Then my brother made a long statement about how he is not a racist and that my friend was wrong to react the way he did.

*sigh*

I'm just interested to know if this is something INTPs do - say things whether they mean it or not/whether it is their personal opinion or not, to either provoke debate or to provoke a reaction. Or if this is just my brother.

In the right circumstances my brother expressing different points of view could be very useful - he just needs to make it clear that they are not his own points of view.

 

[Peerless]

He has a habit of playing devil's advocate. He likes to say things that appear to be his opinion, but they often aren't. He often makes comments that I find offensive and I will react to them by giving him a lecture, but then half way through my lecture I realise he only said it to wind me up.

Yeah, I usually do this (but not in the sense of truly tricking someone with actual arguments). I'll usually playfully act as though I believe something which I don't, get the person really riled up, and then I'll say, "TROLLED!" So for me, it's more a matter of playfully deceiving others into thinking I need to be lectured, but not actually arguing my case. I kind of just imply that I tend to view things that way. lmfao --- and for me it's just a fun recreational activity. I'd say we derive pleasure from such annoyance/deception, albeit it's very playful and non-serious. And it seems to have very negative effects on those who actually take us serious. Trust me -- I know.

I'm worried that one day my brother will get himself into a lot of trouble because of the 'casual' comments he makes. (Although he usually reserves these for his family rather than blurting them out to strangers.)

It's interesting that your brother didn't apologize. I have almost ZERO ability to ever say, "I'm sorry." Even if I did something completely heinous, I just dislike having to lower to someone in such a petty senstimental/emotional manner. Irritates me just thinking about such weakness.

Anyway, I think it's safe to say most xNTP's do this sort of behavior often. We like pulling people's strings for reactions, just to get a kick out of it. It's probably because we have Extraverted Intuition. We just enjoy playing with possibilities and being joksters and pranksters. My ENTP brother is just the same, if not worse, than me at this.

 

[Elwin]

Not sure about INTP's but brothers sure do enjoy provoking their sisters and her friends. :tongue:

 

[L]

Not sure about INTP's but brothers sure do enjoy provoking their sisters and her friends. :tongue:

Too true, too true.

 

[MoonLight]

It does seem as XNTP behavior though it does differ from one person to the next. The ENTP I know says sexist things to rile women that he doesn't belief in.

 

[ItsEvan]

Seeing as I'm alone to almost everything I argue for, I often just avoid confrontations altogether unless it's in a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter how logical your argument is when a debate degrades into grandstanding and name calling. It all resorts to mob psychology afterwards.

 

[L]

Seeing as I'm alone to almost everything I argue for, I often just avoid confrontations altogether unless it's in a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter how logical your argument is when a debate degrades into grandstanding and name calling. It all resorts to mob psychology afterwards.

But it is fun to watch this from afar, I was forced by my mom to go in her place to this one meeting, it got REAL ugly REAL fast...that was the first time i was glad I got forced into something, you never forget something like that lol.
Adults all ranging from 40-60 years old all acting like 3rd graders, I thought it was kind of amusing.

 

[luemb]

Seeing as I'm alone to almost everything I argue for, I often just avoid confrontations altogether unless it's in a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter how logical your argument is when a debate degrades into grandstanding and name calling. It all resorts to mob psychology afterwards.

I normally avoid confrontation too. I do sometimes say things that are not my exact opinion, but rarely in a confrontational manner, and very very rarely over the internet.

 

[Peerless]

Seeing as I'm alone to almost everything I argue for, I often just avoid confrontations altogether unless it's in a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter how logical your argument is when a debate degrades into grandstanding and name calling. It all resorts to mob psychology afterwards.

Odd... most INTP's seem to be conflict prone (given our strong thinking preference, which leads to a need to correct others). How strong are your feeilng functions? NF's usually avoid confrontation at all costs.

 

[Peerless]

I normally avoid confrontation too. I do sometimes say things that are not my exact opinion, but rarely in a confrontational manner, and very very rarely over the internet.

As with Evan: how strong are your feeling functions? I'm curious as to whether you guys are less confrontation due to stronger feeling functions, or because you somehow reason against it. I've read many times that Thinking types are usually very insensitive and prone to disagreement.

 

[luemb]

As with Evan: how strong are your feeling functions? I'm curious as to whether you guys are less confrontation due to stronger feeling functions, or because you somehow reason against it. I've read many times that Thinking types are usually very insensitive and prone to disagreement.

I think it is an ennegram type 9 mentality more than a feeling mentality.

 

[Chrysantheist]

Odd... most INTP's seem to be conflict prone (given our strong thinking preference, which leads to a need to correct others). How strong are your feeilng functions? NF's usually avoid confrontation at all costs.

I think we're conflict-avoidant when it comes to matters that might involve our emotions. Battles of wit and logic or information don't affect us emotionally, so we'll engage in those types of conflicts for fun. But we don't tend to get in emotionally-charged debates ("you don't love me! you never xyz..." etc.) because we don't want to deal with them.

 

[error]

My brother used to do this, and he claimed he was an ESTP. Although, like me he probably had a weak S/N. Or maybe he wasn't an ESTP at all. It's not like we can do an up to date test now.

I don't openly do this but I always try to think of things from all different perspectives.

 

[Peerless]

I think it is an ennegram type 9 mentality more than a feeling mentality.

Great response! I remember Kilgore_Trout once talking about how her really dislikes people who nit-pick over any little thing, and I'm sure he's probably an enneagram type 9. This would seem to mean that not all thinking types are necessarily confrontational and stern in their dealings with others. But are you sure your feeling functions aren't well-developed? Enneagram type 9 may somehow correlate to feeling functions. I really wouldn't know if they do or not.

 

[Mimos]

hmm....just thought about this too and I do enjoy pranking my wife. Every morning if she does not wake up when she is supposed to I put something on repeat (she is INFJ and hates repetition) unless she is in a bad mood she usually tolerates this and laughingly says "you are such a PEST!". But then there are the times when I have to stop myself cause she gets ticked off. Lately I have been doing the Iron Chef theme (japanese).

This one is my absolute favorite: