Ok, so this guy is now youtube famous for his murders. One thing that really disturbed me was how I could relate to his dark thoughts, once upon a time when I was very unstable.
refugee
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If I grew up as a rich kid with a beamer, I'd drive to the beach almost everyday to go sunbathing, then I'd drive to a local burger joint and order a delicious sandwich, and then maybe stop by the nearest flower shop, so I can decorate my apartment with flowers. Single or not single, I'd do my best to take advantage of all these beautiful things (at least that's what I did when I felt rejection from others). I would do my best enjoy life (even alone) and not give a sh*t about others. Obviously having nice things wasn't enough for him.
Yeah, I don't know how I would type him. Going by Sily's post, we do not have to type him.
Yeah, I don't know how I would type him. Going by Sily's post, we do not have to type him.
To know if Rodgers was an INFP or not, we must make a distinction between two types of violence. The first one being real violence and the other one being imaginary violence. If we, as INFPs, feel the urge to be violent, we become violent in our fantasies. We discharge all of our aggression in fictional contexts because that's how our wild imagination does things. All of that leads us to avoid real life violence. In other words, we imagine being violent. Rodgers carried out real violence. That's already an odd behavior for an INFP. Furthermore, all his life he felt the need to have a huge social circle and lots of sexual attention. He also tried to obtain all of this at all costs. That implies that he wasn't even an introvert. Chances are he was a frustrated extrovert, and let's not even write about his carefully planned act, typical of other personality types I won't mention here. My verdict is that this person was not an INFP.
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Whenever someone turns into a deadly monster I'm always curious what lead to it. Ultimately he's responsible for what he did, though he's dead. 22 is old enough to know better. But I wonder how his role models were, where he got his values from & what choices he made that lead up to him being a violent & hateful dirtbag. Maybe this was in him all along. Some people are fine when they're getting what they want but when they don't they snap. Maybe all he knew was money & what it could buy. But he couldn't buy love & that seemed to royally offend him. Like "My dad's the Hunger Games director so women are supposed to throw themselves at me." Egocentric as they get. Seems he graded his self worth by Hollywood standards, which would kill anyone's spirit. That's a shallow way to live. I couldn't begin to guess his type. ExxJ maybe.
per·son·al·i·ty dis·or·der
noun
Psychiatry
noun: personality disorder; plural noun: personality disorders
a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind, typically manifest by the time one reaches adolescence and causing long-term difficulties in personal relationships or in functioning in society.
I'm sure our perpetrator had one.
Can someone with a personality disorder be typed?
Any psychology experts out there?
noun
Psychiatry
noun: personality disorder; plural noun: personality disorders
a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind, typically manifest by the time one reaches adolescence and causing long-term difficulties in personal relationships or in functioning in society.
I'm sure our perpetrator had one.
Can someone with a personality disorder be typed?
Any psychology experts out there?
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I think what I can identify with him is his kind of moralistic value judgements. Like...he can't simply say, "X didn't work with the girls I met," he has to say (something like), "the girls reject me because they think I am worthless...when in fact I am not." Actually, he went way beyond that to say that he was superior in various instances in his manifesto.
But...I feel like it's the same kind of thinking that can also say, "I must be worthless because people reacted this way." Instead of saying he is worthless, like I am familiar with (and maybe other INFPs), he says that others are worthless. I feel like it's a way of navigating the world through moral value judgements. Things aren't just reactions, but judgments from god. And his example is a really negative amplification of this kind of thinking. (Maybe this thinking could be described as black and white, which does seem prevalent in certain personality disorders...and Kiersey seems to describe INFPs with something similar)
Anyway...I do think he had some personality disorder on top of aspergers (if that's what he really had). Certainly not just an example of an unstable INFP, since i have been unstable many a time and I wouldn't escalate to the point he did.
Edit: Also, I feel kind of guilty but I couldn't help but feel a little envious that he got a freaking BMW from his family, as well as international trips, and his rent paid for college! But he was unable to appreciate these things for some reason, maybe because the thing he wanted more was some primitive relic of human companionship.
But...I feel like it's the same kind of thinking that can also say, "I must be worthless because people reacted this way." Instead of saying he is worthless, like I am familiar with (and maybe other INFPs), he says that others are worthless. I feel like it's a way of navigating the world through moral value judgements. Things aren't just reactions, but judgments from god. And his example is a really negative amplification of this kind of thinking. (Maybe this thinking could be described as black and white, which does seem prevalent in certain personality disorders...and Kiersey seems to describe INFPs with something similar)
Anyway...I do think he had some personality disorder on top of aspergers (if that's what he really had). Certainly not just an example of an unstable INFP, since i have been unstable many a time and I wouldn't escalate to the point he did.
Edit: Also, I feel kind of guilty but I couldn't help but feel a little envious that he got a freaking BMW from his family, as well as international trips, and his rent paid for college! But he was unable to appreciate these things for some reason, maybe because the thing he wanted more was some primitive relic of human companionship.
Like Luka Magnotta, he was a malignant narcissist: "a disturbing form of narcissistic personality where grandiosity is built around aggression and the destructive aspects of the self become idealized".
Yes, someone with what is called "personality disorder" can have a Myers Briggs type. And the only way to find out would be if they took the test. Who knew!
It would not matter anyway. Personality types are a theory not accepted by or related to the DSM.
Anywho, even "malignant narcissist" itself is just saying "He does evil things and we don't know why!" in a way that sounds intelligent and in control.
And so many people have aspergers and are lovely, gentle people... so I don't think that's a particularly helpful thing to point out either.
Yes, someone with what is called "personality disorder" can have a Myers Briggs type. And the only way to find out would be if they took the test. Who knew!
It would not matter anyway. Personality types are a theory not accepted by or related to the DSM.
Anywho, even "malignant narcissist" itself is just saying "He does evil things and we don't know why!" in a way that sounds intelligent and in control.
And so many people have aspergers and are lovely, gentle people... so I don't think that's a particularly helpful thing to point out either.
If you are very curious and haven't done so already, you should read his manifesto: Manifesto of Elliot Rodger
It's long, but provides some really fascinating insight in to the mind and motives of a killer. He details his entire life and explains, from his perspective, why it went sour. It's a bit of a treat when in most cases we know so little about the motives of spree killers like him.
I haven't finished his manifesto yet, and it's extremely difficult to type someone who is so disturbed, but I will say that I don't think he is likely to be an INFP. He places a great deal of importance on societal expectations and values and is constantly seeking external validation, so I would guess that he has a wildly unhealthy and out of control version of Fe somewhere in his function stack. But I'm not enough of an expert to say anything with certainty.
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This guy had serious self-esteem issues even though he acted like a narcissist. Being a narcissist is having low self-esteem too. Being a guy raised with lots of privileged he felt he deserved everything. That’s the issue with some spoiled rich kids. People need to understand that things happen at their given moment. You cannot force things to happen and be so bitter about life. People are lacking emotional intelligence these days.
If every single person who is suffering of loneliness does what that guy did there would be no humanity. Hundred of people go through the same thing he was going through. Many people suffer from rejection by the opposite sex including females. People need to stop comparing their lives to others and stop feeling pressure to lose their freaking virginities like it's the ultimate goal in life.
If every single person who is suffering of loneliness does what that guy did there would be no humanity. Hundred of people go through the same thing he was going through. Many people suffer from rejection by the opposite sex including females. People need to stop comparing their lives to others and stop feeling pressure to lose their freaking virginities like it's the ultimate goal in life.
Apparently he's autistic, which makes him more likely to be an INTP or INTJ. I do relate a little to some of the things he had to say since I have had my fair share of lady problems (FOREVER ALONE FOR REALZ MAN! 
), but where he differs from most INFPs is his grandiose self worth. Not to say that INFPs cant be narcissistic, because everyone can be, but I think a narcissistic INFP will portray his self worth from the perspective of how unique and different he is, not so much like "I'm gorgeous, why no one love me?"
), but where he differs from most INFPs is his grandiose self worth. Not to say that INFPs cant be narcissistic, because everyone can be, but I think a narcissistic INFP will portray his self worth from the perspective of how unique and different he is, not so much like "I'm gorgeous, why no one love me?"
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No, I'm pretty sure he was 3w2 ISFJ. Also if you read his manifesto it wasn't just about not losing his virginity. It was about being almost completely socially isolated from the age of 13 onwards. I've spent a lot of my life being socially isolated to one degree or another and even I was like "holy SHIT this dude has a lonely life" when I read it.
Dylan Klebold on the other hand...about as INFP as it's possible to get. You guys should read his diary if you have a free moment.
Dylan Klebold on the other hand...about as INFP as it's possible to get. You guys should read his diary if you have a free moment.
I remember reading his journals. They scared me, but they also broke my heart. Nothing can justify what he did, but damn that kid was sad. I could see INFP for him.
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I think he was INFJ 4w3, and of course an extremely unhealthy one (ie. emotionally/mentally/spiritually ill).
I am confident in this typing after reading his manifesto.
I made the following post on another board, and it just scratches the surface of why I believe that to be his type & why I think he is "typable" (ie. not so insane he cannot be typed). This includes other points I was addressing in that particular thread, but I'm keeping it in context as I think it's necessary to in order to make the case for his type.
My post:
After reading this guy's "manifesto", I think (emphasis on this being my opinion expressed on an internet forum):
- He had no mental illness as far as a "disease" that he could not control, IMO. I think he was sick in the sense that he had developed very unhealthy thought patterns & behaviors. He indulged in this. No one is to blame for these choices of his; this mental sickness was a choice & "bad habits" he developed, not a disease that arose from his genetics or severe childhood trauma. He sounds like an extremely sensitive person who dwelled on teenage teasing that was pretty normal (while not right, it's the kind of stuff many go through & come out just fine) to the point where he entered almost every new situation with the belief it would not change, especially as he believed the fault to fully lie with others. In carrying this belief with him, he self-sabotaged & adopted behavior & thinking that kept the cycle going. He fed & nurtured his hurts & dwelled distorted thoughts & sought info to confirm his biases until they grew more extreme.
Basically, he was a nice looking kid from an upper middle class to upper class background who had some bullying at school & social awkwardness, and he chose to take a mental, emotional & behavioral path that focused on these relatively few hurts (compared to the lives of others), which then put him in a negative cycle. He had a lot of positive things he could've focused on (parents who seemed to love him, even if they ignored him a lot; male friends who did accept him, even if they were nerdy too; and a very comfortable financial/social background, even if he thought it was "embarrassing" to live in an apartment for a short time when his parents divorced; physically healthy, even if shorter/skinnier than some peers), but he chose not to see those things.
- His parents were not bad or abusive, but neither were they good parents (from how his manifesto paints them). They sound like they were very wrapped up in their own lives during a time period he really needed them. By his pre-teens, his parents divorced, his dad was busy with his film career, and no one seemed to notice he spent excessive time playing video games, failed classes at school, and was being bullied by classmates. Parents who allow their teenage son from age 12-18 or so to play WoW for 14 hours a day are not great parents. Parents who have no idea their son has extreme emotional anguish in response to daily bullying & begin a social outcast are not great parents. Good parents know what's going on with their kids & play an active role to make sure they aren't computer game addicts with inability to interact with peers.
- This is not really about sex & pent-up aggression due to no outlet for sexual release. This is why arguments for legal prostitution make no sense (& prostitution exists, even if not legal where he was from; his situation wouldn't have made it hard for him to discreetly find & pay for a call girl. There is also such a thing as craigslist personals). The real issue: He had a preoccupation with achieving social status before puberty even. He was angry when this failed, and especially angry with female peers who teased him. The sex & women part, IMO, was a transfer of his general desire for social validation & sense of being rejected/inferior into a very specific area which became the focus upon puberty. "Getting girls" would signify this to him, whereas buying sex via a prostitute would not. His interest in PUA confirms how this was mostly about women being a commodity, one that signaled social value if you could obtain it.
- I think he was an extremely unhealthy INFJ 4w3, filled with envy & hostility & a sense of defectiveness he turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. He speaks of a happy childhood, happy times now lost, and focuses on what he is lacking in life over what he has. 3 wing is obvious - he's preoccupied with having a successful, attractive image & believes in this image, with anger aimed at those who don't "see" it.
Inferior Se & weak aux Fe is all over his manifesto. Most of his attempts to "fit in" socially when young revolved around social status & visual image, not real social skills. He tried to create a cool skateboarder image but failed, partly because he could not skate. He viewed popular peers as competition towards his goals. He felt his body to be small & weak, less masculine than his peers. IMO, these & many other details point towards inferior Se - someone who has difficulty impacting reality & creating a tangible presence with others. He turned to an intricate fantasy world in WoW where he felt safe & comfortable because he didn't know how to translate his vision of himself into a reality. He formed an ideology (a "vision") & then later a strategy to carry it through (Ni & Ti thinking). Like most unhealthy INJs, he believed the flaw in the rest of humanity, not himself. He considered himself polite & gentlemanly, & seemed able to convince authorities of this (weak Fe, but enough to pass as stable at times). His complaints are less about people being stupid or unable to think for themselves (which would be T-ish) than people being brutal & insensitive (more F-ish whining). Anyway, I could do a longer examination of his manifesto & how his personality comes through, but suffice to say I do think he was INFJ & not ill in a way that he could not be typed.
I am confident in this typing after reading his manifesto.
I made the following post on another board, and it just scratches the surface of why I believe that to be his type & why I think he is "typable" (ie. not so insane he cannot be typed). This includes other points I was addressing in that particular thread, but I'm keeping it in context as I think it's necessary to in order to make the case for his type.
My post:
After reading this guy's "manifesto", I think (emphasis on this being my opinion expressed on an internet forum):
- He had no mental illness as far as a "disease" that he could not control, IMO. I think he was sick in the sense that he had developed very unhealthy thought patterns & behaviors. He indulged in this. No one is to blame for these choices of his; this mental sickness was a choice & "bad habits" he developed, not a disease that arose from his genetics or severe childhood trauma. He sounds like an extremely sensitive person who dwelled on teenage teasing that was pretty normal (while not right, it's the kind of stuff many go through & come out just fine) to the point where he entered almost every new situation with the belief it would not change, especially as he believed the fault to fully lie with others. In carrying this belief with him, he self-sabotaged & adopted behavior & thinking that kept the cycle going. He fed & nurtured his hurts & dwelled distorted thoughts & sought info to confirm his biases until they grew more extreme.
Basically, he was a nice looking kid from an upper middle class to upper class background who had some bullying at school & social awkwardness, and he chose to take a mental, emotional & behavioral path that focused on these relatively few hurts (compared to the lives of others), which then put him in a negative cycle. He had a lot of positive things he could've focused on (parents who seemed to love him, even if they ignored him a lot; male friends who did accept him, even if they were nerdy too; and a very comfortable financial/social background, even if he thought it was "embarrassing" to live in an apartment for a short time when his parents divorced; physically healthy, even if shorter/skinnier than some peers), but he chose not to see those things.
- His parents were not bad or abusive, but neither were they good parents (from how his manifesto paints them). They sound like they were very wrapped up in their own lives during a time period he really needed them. By his pre-teens, his parents divorced, his dad was busy with his film career, and no one seemed to notice he spent excessive time playing video games, failed classes at school, and was being bullied by classmates. Parents who allow their teenage son from age 12-18 or so to play WoW for 14 hours a day are not great parents. Parents who have no idea their son has extreme emotional anguish in response to daily bullying & begin a social outcast are not great parents. Good parents know what's going on with their kids & play an active role to make sure they aren't computer game addicts with inability to interact with peers.
- This is not really about sex & pent-up aggression due to no outlet for sexual release. This is why arguments for legal prostitution make no sense (& prostitution exists, even if not legal where he was from; his situation wouldn't have made it hard for him to discreetly find & pay for a call girl. There is also such a thing as craigslist personals). The real issue: He had a preoccupation with achieving social status before puberty even. He was angry when this failed, and especially angry with female peers who teased him. The sex & women part, IMO, was a transfer of his general desire for social validation & sense of being rejected/inferior into a very specific area which became the focus upon puberty. "Getting girls" would signify this to him, whereas buying sex via a prostitute would not. His interest in PUA confirms how this was mostly about women being a commodity, one that signaled social value if you could obtain it.
- I think he was an extremely unhealthy INFJ 4w3, filled with envy & hostility & a sense of defectiveness he turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. He speaks of a happy childhood, happy times now lost, and focuses on what he is lacking in life over what he has. 3 wing is obvious - he's preoccupied with having a successful, attractive image & believes in this image, with anger aimed at those who don't "see" it.
Inferior Se & weak aux Fe is all over his manifesto. Most of his attempts to "fit in" socially when young revolved around social status & visual image, not real social skills. He tried to create a cool skateboarder image but failed, partly because he could not skate. He viewed popular peers as competition towards his goals. He felt his body to be small & weak, less masculine than his peers. IMO, these & many other details point towards inferior Se - someone who has difficulty impacting reality & creating a tangible presence with others. He turned to an intricate fantasy world in WoW where he felt safe & comfortable because he didn't know how to translate his vision of himself into a reality. He formed an ideology (a "vision") & then later a strategy to carry it through (Ni & Ti thinking). Like most unhealthy INJs, he believed the flaw in the rest of humanity, not himself. He considered himself polite & gentlemanly, & seemed able to convince authorities of this (weak Fe, but enough to pass as stable at times). His complaints are less about people being stupid or unable to think for themselves (which would be T-ish) than people being brutal & insensitive (more F-ish whining). Anyway, I could do a longer examination of his manifesto & how his personality comes through, but suffice to say I do think he was INFJ & not ill in a way that he could not be typed.
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Not a psychology expert, but a typology enthusiast
Type theories allow & even include how a type looks when extremely unhealthy, ie, when distorted by such a thing as a personality disorder, sometimes even linking certain kinds of neuroses to certain types. In other words, type theory would say certain types tend to go bad in similar ways.
In typing him, I focused on how his thought processes came across in his manifesto, as well as how he described his personality & was seen by others. I did not type him according to his heinous deed, as that certainly cannot be attributed to type, but rather mental/emotional unhealthiness & immoral choices.
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@OrangeAppled
I definitely agree with his dominant rational function being Fe, but I still think he was ISFJ. Here's some things that suggest dominant Si for me:
*Determining what his interests and appearance should be based on what other people thought was cool and trying to project an image of coolness.
*Defining success by a set of material parameters (money, nice cars, the company of attractive women). I think INFJs would probably define success in a more spiritual sense.
*Holding grudges forever and not allowing himself to get over things.
*The amount of detail he was able to remember about his life, even down to what movies he watched on what days when he was 5 years old.
Also he was probably Enneagram 3w4...he seemed very externally focused. Fours are usually internally focused. He didn't have that "nobody understands me" thing. He didn't care about being understood, just admired. He didn't care if he met a girl who actually "got" him, as long as she was there to have sex with and show off to other guys. Also 4w3s are usually one of the more out-there types and one of the easiest types to identify. Nothing about him said 4w3 to me at all.
I definitely agree with his dominant rational function being Fe, but I still think he was ISFJ. Here's some things that suggest dominant Si for me:
*Determining what his interests and appearance should be based on what other people thought was cool and trying to project an image of coolness.
*Defining success by a set of material parameters (money, nice cars, the company of attractive women). I think INFJs would probably define success in a more spiritual sense.
*Holding grudges forever and not allowing himself to get over things.
*The amount of detail he was able to remember about his life, even down to what movies he watched on what days when he was 5 years old.
Also he was probably Enneagram 3w4...he seemed very externally focused. Fours are usually internally focused. He didn't have that "nobody understands me" thing. He didn't care about being understood, just admired. He didn't care if he met a girl who actually "got" him, as long as she was there to have sex with and show off to other guys. Also 4w3s are usually one of the more out-there types and one of the easiest types to identify. Nothing about him said 4w3 to me at all.
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