Interesting topics - I too think people really misunderstand what an INFJ is because of the way we are written about online.

Like you said, I don't think I'm a bad person for these things I will mention - I think I'm very easy to talk to (IRL) and I'm a people-pleaser. I think I come across as a lot more stern online (as people like to remind me daily) and I am very reserved - but many of my thought processes are INFJ-typical and seem to contradict what people think of our type as a whole.

Here are some of the following that might shock non-INFJs:

1. When I first meet people, I scout out in what ways they will be useful to me.

It sounds terrible when I put it that way but I do mean it. A very simple example from being at school/university and even work is that I consider what the kinds of people around me are like and how it benefits me. Are they tidy, messy, punctual, do they keep notes of meetings, can they be trusted with secrets, who do they like and get along with and why.

I store all of this information for the time I need it so that, if for example I need something as innocent as to know who to rely on if I missed a day of classes and I want the notes from said-class, I know who can be counted on because up until that point I observed their interactions with other people who have missed lessons and what they've told them to catch up. I can deduce whether they give trustworthy information and if that will ever be useful to me in a moment where I must rely on another person.

2. In a more selfish way, I will allow people to think we are friends if it means that it makes my life easier.

I can be pretty (an unintentionally) hot and cold. Not with the same people, with different people, hot with one, cold with another and people can be confused by this. When I'm in Ni mode - I 'appear' like I don't care about anything, I seem cold, because I'm usually focusing on something singular and not social.

When I'm in Fe mode, I seem very social, I know exactly what to say, what to do, what people mean etc.

Due to my Fe skills, I find many people think I like them, when I'm in social-mode, when I do in fact not care for them. I'm just being pleasant, making small talk and being civil.

As a kid, I learned quickly that people take being called a friend very seriously, despite (in my opinion) not doing much to deserve being called such a thing. So like all INFJs, I'm picky with who I let close to me. But as a naturally reserved person, if I give any personal information away to others, they often interpret this as suddenly meaning I trust them and that we're friends - when this couldn't be further from the truth.

But I will allow them to think so so that if I'm in a situation where I need something from them, any sort of small favour, they will do it for me because we already have that established relationship. If I were to be entirely honest, they wouldn't lend a hand to someone who never before made an effort to laugh at their jokes, humour their conversations and be generally pleasant - would they? I see it as benefiting us both - they get to think we're buddies, I get to make life easier for myself in the rare moments I need something. But I am very aware some might see this as deceiving, it is - but you have to pick your battles and I haven't yet hurt anyone doing this. Most of it is unconscious, I never sit down and make a plan out of how to get people to trust me.

If I went around telling everyone who 'thought' I liked them that I didn't, my life would be harder than it is now because sometimes for your own benefit, it's better to keep those things to yourself. Unless of course a person asks me for a honest assessment of how I see them - I will have no issue being honest, but people tend to be shocked by answer, regret asking and end up upset or crying.

3. I am very strategic, mostly unconsciously.

Again, when I first meet people, it takes a handful of interactions for me to figure out their weaknesses - whether they're a person who simply can't stand being told what to do or they'd throw a fit, or they're a person who has a chequered past with dating. It doesn't take long for me to know what their issues are.

And my Ni is so amoral that I occasionally have moments of theorising what it would be like to use this information against them. Since I'm Fe driven and I think, quite easy-going and not a complete cunt - I don't. But in a few arguments (something I do not invite nor enjoy) where people have corned me, not letting me get away from them during the end of a relationship, I have used information I've deduced from them, repeated it back to them and I have made many people cry. I don't like when it comes to that, but it's a sure-fire way of getting someone who is harassing you to never be able to look you in the eye again after repeating their deepest fears back to their consciousness.

4. I know you were exaggerating for the purpose of showing stereotypes to be stupid - but I think people who have somewhat of a through knowledge of the MBTI are aware that types like INFJs are not strong Js. I consider myself cleaner and more tidy than the average individual due to my upbringing for one, and the fact I do actually have pretty severe OCD. But like a typical-INFJ, my work station, for example, would look like a mess to other people. It's organised chaos to me. INFJs are not strong Js like ESTJs for example and this is a reason so many INFPs and INFJs mistype as each other because, for example a person who is new to the MBTI might think "Well, I'm not tidy all the time - so I guess I can't be an INFJ, I'm an INFP" or vice versa.

5. Like many INFJs, I believe we are closer to INTJs or ISFJs in behaviour than we are with INFPs. We share functions with the former, none with the latter and it is reflected in our behaviour because INFJs have a weak Se like INTJs, are driven by Ni like INTJs and Fe secondly like ISFJs. And we are most certainly Js in comparison to INFPs who tend to be more obviously Ps than we are obviously Js. They are far more go with the flow than we are, in general.

6. I agree with you - around friends and family, I can be very loud. I have said a few times on PerC that if people I used to be social with were just introduced to the MBTI and they had to type me - I'm almost certain they'd go for ESTP or something. But 98% of people will never see the real side of me because they're not a loved-one and therefore I'm not interested in them being in my inner circle of trusted individuals - who know how truly introverted and private I am.

7. I did find it quite strange when I first read - "INFJs aren't in touch with their feelings." I called bullshit.

But in comparison to a type like INFP, we don't tend to be as good at making our identity the centre of our thought-processing. When it comes to emotions, the only reason I can figure out why this is said about us is because in comparison to introverted feelers, we're not as proficient often, and because we're so empathetic and Fe driven that we can misinterpret other people's emotions as our own - which I do frequently.

And that is a big reason I only feel entirely myself when I am alone with no external stimuli interfering with my ability to detect the origin of the emotions I am feeling. Like you said, I think my Ni-Ti will inevitably find a way of retracing where it all began - so I don't think we're anywhere near as hopeless with emotions as some sites make out. Unlike some types, we are highly introspective and think about the patterns in our own behaviour often - many types are not that reflective.

8. I'm not actively or consciously private - I am because I don't trust other people's intentions, knowing how well human behaviour works. This is typical of INFJs however, but many seem to feel we want to be mysterious - I don't think that is the case, mostly, because we just are.

We're a weird type.

Can't think of anymore at the moment. But it was interesting to think about.

 

1. When I first meet people, I scout out in what ways they will be useful to me.

It sounds terrible when I put it that way but I do mean it. A very simple example from being at school/university and even work is that I consider what the kinds of people around me are like and how it benefits me. Are they tidy, messy, punctual, do they keep notes of meetings, can they be trusted with secrets, who do they like and get along with and why.

I unconsciously do this all the time, but not in such a precise manner. I am pretty terrible with details —it's apparently quite common among INFJs— and just remember general patterns, sometimes quite crazy, like 'this should be my go-to person if I ever kill someone'. Totally Ni.

2. In a more selfish way, I will allow people to think we are friends if it means that it makes my life easier.

I can be pretty (an unintentionally) hot and cold. Not with the same people, with different people, hot with one, cold with another and people can be confused by this. When I'm in Ni mode - I 'appear' like I don't care about anything, I seem cold, because I'm usually focusing on something singular and not social.

When I'm in Fe mode, I seem very social, I know exactly what to say, what to do, what people mean etc.

Due to my Fe skills, I find many people think I like them, when I'm in social-mode, when I do in fact not care for them. I'm just being pleasant, making small talk and being civil.

As a kid, I learned quickly that people take being called a friend very seriously, despite (in my opinion) not doing much to deserve being called such a thing. So like all INFJs, I'm picky with who I let close to me. But as a naturally reserved person, if I give any personal information away to others, they often interpret this as suddenly meaning I trust them and that we're friends - when this couldn't be further from the truth.

The same thing happens to me. I love your 'Ni mode'/'Fe mode' distinction.

3. I am very strategic, mostly unconsciously.

And my Ni is so amoral that I occasionally have moments of theorising what it would be like to use this information against them. Since I'm Fe driven and I think, quite easy-going and not a complete cunt - I don't. But in a few arguments (something I do not invite nor enjoy) where people have corned me, not letting me get away from them during the end of a relationship, I have used information I've deduced from them, repeated it back to them and I have made many people cry. I don't like when it comes to that, but it's a sure-fire way of getting someone who is harassing you to never be able to look you in the eye again after repeating their deepest fears back to their consciousness.

When I'm really upset, I get in what I think is an Ni-Fi (subconscious Fi) mode, a really dark mode, and I get these terrible ideas, like filling up someone's house with bugs. I usually calm down before I get to act lol.

5. Like many INFJs, I believe we are closer to INTJs or ISFJs in behaviour than we are with INFPs. We share functions with the former, none with the latter and it is reflected in our behaviour because INFJs have a weak Se like INTJs, are driven by Ni like INTJs and Fe secondly like ISFJs. And we are most certainly Js in comparison to INFPs who tend to be more obviously Ps than we are obviously Js. They are far more go with the flow than we are, in general.

I get a very different vibe from thinkers, probably because of all this temperament thing, so it's quite difficult for me to identify as close to thinkers at this point of my life. Last year, when I was in college using my Ti a lot and thought I was a thinker, it was different, but now that I use Fe so much —at work, and because I have more of a social life now that I don't study anymore— I feel like they are really different.

We're a weird type.

True

 

pretty much the same as you.

I call myself selfishly selfless because i recognise that when i help others i am really helping myself. i have no problem telling people no when i am too busy or i feel that thing they asked me to do is a waste of my time. but i wasn't like this when i was younger. i was always trying to help people no matter what but i got over it.

yea i am pretty good at understanding my own feelings. but i understand my own feelings through a third person point of view.

yea i am kinda messy too

yea i am pretty loud too, most people at work think i am extrovert. i would joke around with a lot of people. i use to be shy tho, very shy, my parents were very very worried. but i got over it (to an extent)by practising public speaking and gaining self confident through hard work.

yea i can be showy but not i am not fake. i don't go around pretending that i am awesome, i try my best to be awesome =P

 

yea i am pretty good at understanding my own feelings. but i understand my own feelings through a third person point of view.

I hadn't realized but I think I also do this. I will have to analyze it further, though. Thanks for bringing that up!

yea i can be showy but not i am not fake. i don't go around pretending that i am awesome, i try my best to be awesome =P

Same! I guess it's our Ni high criteria —for us and for others.


I think our experiences are really similar, —or so it seems— except I'd never get mistaken for an extrovert at work: I go there, I am pleasant to everybody, both customers and coworkers, but I am pretty reserved. I don't think close friends think of me as a really extroverted person either, but some might think I could be an extrovert because of them being more introverted than me. I think most of my close friends are IxFJs or ISxPs and the like; that is —unless I've made a mistake— people with auxiliary Fe or Se, which makes them really hectic at parties. So introverts during the daytime; "extroverts" during the nighttime! However, I could definitely come across as an extrovert during a party, at a bar, when meeting someone new…

 

- I not only am not in touch with my feelings - we don't inhabit the same consciousness.
- I am very tidy and organised. I love organising things.
- I am never loud. I don't really do friends, and I generally prefer to stay away from family.
- I dislike talking 95 % of the time, and generally do monologues only the other 5 %. I virtually never enjoy listening.

 

1. I'm not caring

I don't like 'serving' people at all. It always feels wrong when I'm doing it. Maybe it's my pride.
I mean, I want people to feel comfortable but it wouldn't feel real if I served them while actually being in a different mood.

2. People never open up to me

Some descriptions even say that strangers immediately open up to INFJs. But I don't believe anyone would ever come to me with their problems. Maybe that's because my friends aren't that sort of people who have a lot of problems lol.
It's not that I would mind if people wanted help from me. I'd definetely feel glad they opened up and would do everything I could to help them. It's just that I need some time to think about something until I can help.

I'm one of those INFJs with low Fe and quite high Ti but I could never identify with Te as auxilary function. I think there are just many variations of INFJs. Remember that your MBTI type doesn't include all your unique personality traits. It can't be 100% accurate.

It's weird that some of you disagreed with some clichés that others agreed with. I guess most INFJ descriptions probably represent an 'average' INFJ which leads to some of us disagreeing with several points.

But maybe there are also some clichés that are actually wrong for all subtypes of INFJs. I don't know.

What do you think?

 

Good point to bring up. My answer won't do me justice right now since I'm about to eat. But this touches on something that has been bugging me a while. I never used to be annoyed with the fact the MBTI is so limiting because I knew for most it was common understanding that it doesn't 'define us' - but now I am bothered by it.

Perhaps because INFJs vary so much as people that I'm increasingly becoming uncomfortable with the preconceived notions people have about me, before asking for clarification on how I feel about a topic - they've assumed with me being an INFJ that they already know how I 'should' feel if I am to fit what they have read about INFJs.

It's quite a sad state of affairs because it means there are bound to be disagreements within types - we disagreed wildly sometimes about how we ought to be presented and maybe that's because we're restricting ourselves too much. I mean, I liken it to being female, or an ethnic minority or of a certain culture. None of us are enjoying, I don't think, that people might think "So you're a Latina, therefore I'm going to retrieve my memory bank of what I've read online about how Latinas behave you as an individual must match that otherwise it'll throw me." It doesn't do our individualism any justice. Though I still greatly appreciate the MBTI, it clearly has its issues.

 

I think it's imperative to remember:

Type is a broad category, not an individual.

There's no figurative INFJ model to live up to.

A category has wiggle room to allow for the wide fluctuations contributed by elements like Enneagram, instinctual variant, genetic & environmental neural uniqueness, experiential differences, and any typological categorizations yet to be defined.


So it's kinda pointless to say "This is an INFJ thing, this is not an INFJ thing" unless it works for the broader category rather than just a few.

That said we can only speak for ourselves, contributing to the larger consensus, so here's my input:


* I come off as cold / aloof / mean ... anything but kind, to start off with.
My kindness is more of a lurker, waiting until someone is down to encourage them back up, seeking to understand others deeply in order to best benefit them - but it is not obvious or shared widely.

I'm comfortable with this, as I don't consider that what others want is always what they need. Wants are temporary, needs are long-range.

* I do not fart rainbows. Although at times I can be pretty cute.

* A lot of people tend to mildly dislike me.
I could make them like me, but I refuse.

* I have absolutely no freaking idea what my feelings really are until I've expressed it and I can look at it "out there".
I can tell you what my feelings should be, but that does not always equate to what they are.
I do -always- know what my impressions & thoughts are. Self-awareness is a big deal in my book.
Emotions factor in as something else, something to be parented and managed so they don't interfere with the larger picture. Which they do anyway no matter how hard I try, because - feeler.


** Conclusion: I am not the INFJ model. I'm just one among many in a broad category thusly labeled.


Note: "Subconscious", not "Unconscious"... When you're unconscious you are probably dreaming :tongue:

 

That said we can only speak for ourselves, contributing to the larger consensus, so here's my input:

I'll go toe to toe with ya.

* I come off as cold / aloof / mean ... anything but kind, to start off with.
I come across as friendly and genuinely nice. Saint-like.

* I do not fart rainbows. Although at times I can be pretty cute.
I've done a double rainbow once, but it takes a lot of durian to get there.

* A lot of people tend to mildly dislike me.
Pretty much everyone likes me.

I can tell you what my feelings should be, but that does not always equate to what they are.
Interesting! How? "This is situation X and Y just happened so I should be feeling Z"?

For me it's more like "this is situation X [say, a funeral] and humans are supposed to feel Y here so I'll make face Z but I'm mostly just feeling a pressing need for solitude with all of this emotional energy in the air".

 

P.s.

The J vs P thing is already covered under MBTI provided people have found the right info - hard to find, I know.

Dr. AJ Drenth explains in his books how, all introverts are actually half & half on the J/P axis.

MBTI chooses to categorize based on how the types approach action... what they put out there in the world. So the first extroverted function.

Socionics categorizes based on the first function, which is why all the introverted types have their J / P switched, but the Es don't. INFJs are INFps in Socionics model.

Both are valid, it depends on which way you look at it, because it's 50/50.

 

Date me.

 

Are you taking to me? :crazy:

 

I feel like if you're into self growth and you're willing to take a critical look at your personality you will not fit the stereotypes. I think the whole INFJ concept might describe what your preferences are or what you would lean towards intuitively. However, as humans we have the ability to reflect and the happier I become and the more I learn the more I seem to be a lot of different personality types at one haha.

 

I seem like a nice person to most people, so in a way I guess I come across as the stereotypical nice INFJ who is somewhat charming in social circumstances, but I don't think people realize how much of this is an act. I can be having a conversation with someone and coming across as interested and engaged in the social experience, all the while thinking, "when will this person stop f**king talking?" or some other such thoughts. I am generally nice, approachable, friendly on the outside but rarely, if ever, is this an actual reflection of my inner world. I genuinely like perhaps 2% of the people I meet, the rest are just kind of there. I treat them respectfully more out of recognition of the social expectation that I should be civil more than any innate feeling of compassion towards them. I also frequently have thoughts about how people might be useful to me in some way, and I think strategically about how to capitalise on this, although generally this is often a vague sort of sense of the 'worth' of a person.

In terms of organisation, I am not a detailed planner in the way of lists and plans and stuff. I am generally quite structured in the way that I think things ought to be, but when it comes down to making a decision about things, I tend to go with what those around me want. I struggle to make decisions when they involve others since I pretty much want to maintain social harmony, even though I usually have a firm idea of what I would like to do. This is something that I think contributes to others' sense of me being a 'nice' person.

My long-term 'planning' - one of the stereotypes I have frequently come across - is often more concerned with the 'passive analysis' of long term trends and patterns. By this, I guess I mean that I don't often sit down with data and figures to look at trends, I guess I get a sense impression of patterns and my mind extrapolates from this, which allows me to predict future trends. It is largely unconscious. I don't do a lot of goal-setting or planning, which I think of as more of a Te thing.

I am pretty much done for now, but I hate to end a post abruptly without some sort of closing statement, so this is it. Thank you for reading. Peace out.

 

Personality Café is the new Tinder enguin:

 

Interestingly enough most of the traits (all aside from selfish I think?) reported by @Clamence can be found in any decent description of INFJs.
Let's fight the stereotypes! 0/

One final note. As I read the post, I believe people mix fandom stereotypes with MBTI theory at times. The fact there is a stereotype on the web doesn't make it part of the MBTI theory.

 

Well, I've been stopped in the middle of the street by strangers who told me their life story.

I'm a part time journalist and I've even had celebrities open up!

But yes, I don't necessarily enjoy it. Depends on my mood. I have my own problems just like anybody else to take care of.