[boxerkitty]

I think a lot of enfjs are competitive. As for me, I enjoy debating and conflicting ideas. I enjoy being "beaten" by my man but through a good "fight". I enjoy the tension and the affection afterward. However, when getting into seriou debating about topics, I am not sure whether infp enjoy as much. For example, when you think hard and research hard to come up with an argument that is pretty strong, instead of getting a "wow" you expected, I get excited about the argument and work harder to dig more. My goal is not to win though, my goal is to grow. But it may not sound intimate or affectionate to infp.

What would you feel, what would you expect to be better?

 

[RubyFiligree]

I had an ENFJ friend a while back. We were both very competitive and sensitive making it a very love-hate relationship. Sometimes the competition between us strengthened our relationship. Sometimes it made us immature and drove us apart (because he was a sore winner and loser ) I see competition (winning or losing) as a learning experience as well. If I lose at a game I reflect on why I lost and what I can do to improve. If I win, I think about how I won. I think competition is not as uncommon as you think in INFPs. I think our perfectionism drives us to compete with others. After all, how can we be "perfect" if we see someone doing it better? Even if we aren't competing, we are still trying to be the best we can be (competing against ourselves).

 

[Allskyblue]

I heard you. My dad is an ENFJ. And we usually get into debates where I end up crying, and he feels like a shit, he always says at the end that he would stop explaining things to me, and will end our relation. Though, he never does that, He's my dad. I love him. He loves me.

But. As an INFP, I must tell you, DO NOT DEBATE. We guys are really sensetive people, We get easily hurt by the things you can never ever imagine. We know thid very well that how you guys exaggerate things, and accept it or not, for you its a win-lose conversation. You have an higher Fe and we have higher Fi, that's why our views contradict so much.

If you really want to convey something to an INFP, until and unless you don't give them a strong feeling about it, they will not agree. (YEs, in the end they may burst up with a rude "FIINE!"..or just close their ears, or zip their mouth shut.) and would start pretending as if they are listing and agreeing. But by that time. you must understand that they are intensely hurt by something you've already said, and have started crying within their dainty hearts.

INFPies are really innocent and loyal feelers- ACCEPT THAT.
I'm sorry but, we don't thing externally, we tend to do what we like and what we can, NOT WHAT THE WORLD WANTS.

So, to be better. Keep calm. and with total serenity in you tone, at some pleasant time, ask them gently, with full love. Then only they'll tell you what they feel.
All the best.

 

[Nintaku]

I think a lot of enfjs are competitive....But it may not sound intimate or affectionate to infp.

What would you feel, what would you expect to be better?

I can stand competitiveness in other people, but only while it is fun. If someone is overly competitive, by my measure, and has to challenge everything: I just decide the person has a problem with me. Therefore I leave.
Debates where there has to be a Winner and a loser(s) are just annoying. I tend to make up excuses that give me the chance to slip away, E.G. going to the bathroom so I can slip out the back or go to a different place to hang with different people.

I can have debates with people I feel respect me. The moment I start feeling like I'm not being respected I quickly distance myself from people.

 

[Wellsy]

I would crush them into the plane of oblivion. I AM....WELLSY INFP! ARRRRGGGGGHGHHHH

Get me on a topic I like and have a reasonably firm stance about and yeah lets go biyatch

 

[Doll]

I'm not entirely sure what my SO is, but she's definitely competitive and every time we argue, I always end up being the one curled up on the couch/bed crying my eyes out. I'm afraid at some point she'll dismiss me as a loon and stop taking me seriously, but I can't help it - especially if the argument gets critical. I feel defective so easily, and she's quick to point these flaws out if she's angry. She's more outgoing and seems as though she would be an extrovert, but I'd more type her as an ISFJ, or an ESFJ... S instead of N.

 

[ForsakenMe]

It depends. Some debates, I'm cool with it and even get into it, but the others tend to make me shy away from it. If you get into a debate with us INFPs, we would really appreciate it if you don't start name-calling us or acting sarcastic.

 

[Doll]

It depends. Some debates, I'm cool with it and even get into it, but the others tend to make me shy away from it. If you get into a debate with us INFPs, we would really appreciate it if you don't start name-calling us or acting sarcastic.

Yes. Name-calling feels so demeaning and personal, it's horrible. I have to admit I can get sarcastic at times, but I try very hard not to.

 

[2GiveMyHeart2]

Are you kidding me? I rather keep the peace than have drama.

 

[boxerkitty]

Wow, there is a wide spectrum of the response here. So what I get here is that as long as the topic is interesting, and conveyed in a calm way， it should be fine. My understanding of the best debate/discussion is through which, both people understand the question/topic better, and reach certain agreement. I don't have a specific stance that I have to defend, but I do expect good logic and facts. I noticed that my INFP can use logic well, and he is very very smart. Just that he prefers to use instinct/intuition most times. When we "fight", it is usually when I prefer to follow logic (I have this preference when I "play fight" or debate) and he follows his intuition.


He likes to chat with me about almost anything. Infps are talented in language, and are curiou, right? I really enjoy the topics he brings up and the way he puts it. It is just fun. I guess I want to understand better what INFPs want from an conversation. Inspiration? Reassurance?


A few days ago, my INFP read about the new Nobel prize for economy this year and read about the "stable marriage problem", he wrote about it and showed me his article. It was fun to read, starting from stable marriage problem and its application to pair matching, to looking for restaurant, then to shopping in stores, to government and voting and so on. His ideas were just free flowing, probably coming from a great combination of N and P. Then our discussion went like this:


INFP:“Have you seen my article?"
Me: "Of course!"
INFP: "I know you would enjoy it, you always liked new ideas; Have you seen that even the theory supports that our matching will be stable."
Me (thinking): " hmmm"
INFP: go on free flowing (but I was still dwelling on how the theory would predict that our matching/all other matching are stable).
Me: I don't know the theory well enough, but as you stated it, ....... (trying to specify conditions and clarify my confusion from his statements)...
INFP: "we are both the top choice of each other's list of potential partners, why wouldn't it be stable?"
Me: "what if you are also the top choice of another women? how would she get a stable marriage if she can't get you?" (I didn't use me and another man as hypothesis because that would piss him off even more)
INFP: "That is not my business..." starting to sound a little frustrated...

So I paused here a little bit, and suggested that I would read more about the theory and figure out what were the conditions and implications. Then we switched topics, later that day I studied more and followed up, because I thought that he brought up this topic expecting me to get excited. I was very interested, just that when I was interested in somehing, i may forget about him...


Looking back, I think I should have agreed with him that our matching is stable, regardless of the theory:laughing:. I was too focused on the topic itself.

 

[boxerkitty]

I would crush them into the plane of oblivion. I AM....WELLSY INFP! ARRRRGGGGGHGHHHH

Get me on a topic I like and have a reasonably firm stance about and yeah lets go biyatch

This is really "INFP":laughing:

 

[Wellsy]

This is really "INFP":laughing:

I was in a good mood when I commented. I'm pretty lax, I attribute this to being enneagram 9w1.
I like discussing things i'm not so for bashing my opponent, it's about garnering different perspectives and refining those debating skills. One should be able to articulate their point clearly and a friendly banter over things can be enjoyable as long as ones emotions doesn't overtake in making their judgments for them.

But yeah i could have a good chat with any folk if I had the feeling. Really if the topic interests me im quite a talkative person, I feel like blurting out all that I know about it and my opinions. People tend to know when im excited about something because i don't shut up about it and just go on and on and on. But bring it on lady, im all teeth and talk with a side step to my walk.

 

[susurration]

Fi basically strives to not be "contaminated" by the outside, this is why you hit defensiveness when you come across a personal topic. The adverse reaction comes from stepping on something that is held precious. Most thinkers will say "well that's not my problem to cater for" and yes indeed, adverse emotional reactions aren't there to shift onto others... I have to frame this for thinkers like, how do you protect your Ti? or Ni? it's not imbued with the same level of emotion, but Ti wont budge for the outside if it doesn't accord with the rest of the Ti system. Introverted functions know when the object (the outside) is starting to impress itself on it. Just because there is an emotional reaction doesn't automatically mean the Fi type is saying "look after my feelings". It's there as a reaction towards the feeling being touched. When feelings are introverted, any sense of external entity hitting something so internal will cause a reaction. The emotion is a biproduct of the process of being -moved- in some way. I feel that touch is the best word for it, because it pertains to feelings.

Most people only notice Fi either when the Fi type is ranting and raving, or when someone stepped on it. For the most part feeling that is introverted doesn't end up being expressed or satisfactorily manifested. If it comes out, it just spills out. If it is expressed, it's free form because it is the hardest function to learn to articulate. Part of the issue with debating when debating was sparked by a Fi concern, is that firstly, the infp can struggle to articulate theirself, secondly, they enter into the debate knowing no one finds what they find important as they do. There is frustration on many levels which leads to a feeling of being overwhelmed and which triggers others to being angered over emotionality.

Of all types I think infps need to learn when to debate and when to not debate. Infps know the risk they take when they follow through with Fi "commands", this is well and dandy for every day life, but I guess it's more important with people close to you. Sometimes you have to do the "that's nice dear" half listening routine when the Fi rant happens, because the ranting is just a spilling out. In the grip infps sometimes don't know when to back off, so sometimes you have to be the bigger person and say "you know, maybe we can move onto something else".

Best to set up an agreement where your partner lets you know when they aren't comfortable engaging in a discussion on a subject before it gets too heated. Most infps will live and let live over this kind of thing.

 

[Aliceland]

I have an ENFJ friend and this thread makes so much sense. I feel we're in this constant unspoken competition about everything. She's very much a know-it-all and the people around us lap it up, but often I notice that what she says is completely untrue or she changes her tune just to make herself superior. She constantly undermines whatever I say in order make herself appear more extreme - better or worse, depending on what we're talking about. She's a storytopper and relates everything back to herself, to make it seem as though her problems are more significant or whatever. As an INFP I have a constant need to prove myself because I worry what people think of me. I don't want others to believe everything she says because I worry it makes me look stupid, and I hate insincerity for personal gain. I feel she tries to get attention all the time by doing something to take it off of me. I'm not fussed about attention but I find her to be quite manipulative and dramatic, which really annoys me, and I find it difficult to let go of.

 

[RetroVortex]

Heh. I dont mind a little competition as long as its not serious.
(I do play fighting games afterall! XD)

I would try to be more supportive though if they wanted to persue something else, emotionally probably moreso than physically.

 

[boxerkitty]

I have to frame this for thinkers like, how do you protect your Ti? or Ni? it's not imbued with the same level of emotion, but Ti wont budge for the outside if it doesn't accord with the rest of the Ti system.

This makes so much sense! Next time I will just remind myself: how do I protect my Fe? I remember multiple times my INFP questions me "why do you have to worry about other's feelings about you?" "why would you spend time with random people instead of me?":laughing: and I wouldn't budge. Now I understand.

 

[boxerkitty]

I have an ENFJ friend and this thread makes so much sense. I feel we're in this constant unspoken competition about everything. She's very much a know-it-all and the people around us lap it up, but often I notice that what she says is completely untrue or she changes her tune just to make herself superior. She constantly undermines whatever I say in order make herself appear more extreme - better or worse, depending on what we're talking about. She's a storytopper and relates everything back to herself, to make it seem as though her problems are more significant or whatever. As an INFP I have a constant need to prove myself because I worry what people think of me. I don't want others to believe everything she says because I worry it makes me look stupid, and I hate insincerity for personal gain. I feel she tries to get attention all the time by doing something to take it off of me. I'm not fussed about attention but I find her to be quite manipulative and dramatic, which really annoys me, and I find it difficult to let go of.

This sounds like a young ENFJ though. I think gradually we grew out of "me" phase, at least less "me". I did pay much more attention to my friends and sincerely tried to understand them. Before then, when I was young, yeah, my world only had me