Hello, I am quite confused about socionics here and I have a question. So in mbti, I'm positively an INFJ. I'm very new to Socionics, and I used to assume my type was an IEI for the fact that I'm an INFJ in mbti (reason being I read that you just flip the last letter on introverts and that is your type for socionics.) I've recently taken the socionics test around 7 times, and every single time I get EII result. Sometimes I will get EII-1Fi and sometimes I will get EII-2Fi. I don't know what the difference is, and I am just curious if this is a normal thing for INFJs to test as EII in socionics. I would like for someone experienced in socionics to help me, and let me know if it's "O.K." to be this type and be an INFJ. If it helps, I am an Enneagram 4w3, much appreciated for anyone to help! :smile:
INFJ EII: Is it normal?
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MusiCago
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Hello, I am quite confused about socionics here and I have a question. So in mbti, I'm positively an INFJ. I'm very new to Socionics, and I used to assume my type was an IEI for the fact that I'm an INFJ in mbti (reason being I read that you just flip the last letter on introverts and that is your type for socionics.) I've recently taken the socionics test around 7 times, and every single time I get EII result. Sometimes I will get EII-1Fi and sometimes I will get EII-2Fi. I don't know what the difference is, and I am just curious if this is a normal thing for INFJs to test as EII in socionics. I would like for someone experienced in socionics to help me, and let me know if it's "O.K." to be this type and be an INFJ. If it helps, I am an Enneagram 4w3, much appreciated for anyone to help! :smile:
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Its normal, the cognitive models are guesswork (meaning the functions) and both MBTI and Socionics is trying to explain the same archetypes (meaning the types)
Just like my Si-Te-Fi-Ne ISTp - SLI is the same archetype as MBTI ISTP, your EII archetype is the same as MBTI INFJ.
Some ppl will argue that you need to pick the type which has your preferred functions, but that doesn't mean you fall into that archetype at all and confuses ppl because the type does not fit reality.
Most ppl who are MBTI arhetype X are Socionics archetype X as well. INFP is INFp, INFJ is INFj.
This leads me to believe that the cognitive model in either both or one system is flawed. At any rate ppl with INFJ characteristics exist.
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Yea I read the functions on the socionics website and the function descriptions are much better than mbti, however they seem to not be related. Jung Ni =/= socionics Ni. Also I was reading EII and IEI differences, and EII sounds way more like an mbti INFJ than IEI does, not saying they both couldn't be INFJ. I'm glad that this is a normal thing, thank you.
Err... more like MBTI Ni =/= Jung/Socionics Ni
MBTI is nowhere near Jung. There are even MBTI folks who don't use functions at all. Whereas Jung's work is integral to Socionics.
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Oops yea I'll fix that, I prefer Jung functions > Simplified "are you an introvert or extrovert, are you a sensor or intuitive, are you a judger or perceiver?" However Socionics Functions don't even = Jung functions, if you compare and contrast. Yes some functions are better explained in socionics (like Si), but I am definitely not an Fi Dom, which is what my socionics type is saying.
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So even though I test as EII a lot on sociotypes.com, I am self typing as IEI. Reason being, I researched more on model A, and read the subtypes. I definitely relate to IEI-Ni subtype more than any other, so I'm leaving it at that.
Tests are not reliable. My first Socionics test gave me LII and I was officially typed INTJ in MBTI.
Descriptions are not reliable. It's just an average sample that does not fit everyone .
Questionnaires are not reliable. People change opinions like theirs socks and tend to manipulate what they write to get the wanted outcome.
When I type someone, I start by axis (Ni/Se or Ne/Si preference as I understand them) and how functions are expressed overall and in intertype relationships.
This is what helped me to understand my type. By the way, I self-type as Ni sub but the Fe sub description fits me better. Although I am Normative in DCNH.
All this to say that you are the only one to understand how socionics intertwines with yourself.
People will want to type you everything they desire since there is no common empirical tangible process available.
Descriptions are not reliable. It's just an average sample that does not fit everyone .
Questionnaires are not reliable. People change opinions like theirs socks and tend to manipulate what they write to get the wanted outcome.
When I type someone, I start by axis (Ni/Se or Ne/Si preference as I understand them) and how functions are expressed overall and in intertype relationships.
This is what helped me to understand my type. By the way, I self-type as Ni sub but the Fe sub description fits me better. Although I am Normative in DCNH.
All this to say that you are the only one to understand how socionics intertwines with yourself.
People will want to type you everything they desire since there is no common empirical tangible process available.
And this is exactly why you should ignore almost everything people on here say.
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MBTI and Socionics are very different so it's fairly normal to not score as your MBTI type. And as FoggyEyes said tests aren't so accurate, especially socionics one I daresay.
From what I've seen around, you are being nihilistic per se, whatever people or subjects are. Regarding myself, I just observe and if I have nothing valuable to say I shut the fuck up. Your style is different, you like to challenge anything and everyone. Go on, I am not part of shit stirring.
Why should someone listen to a user here if they're not using an accurate method to type? Seems like wasted effort. But yes, I do challenge things. And I don't suffer others' behavior like they expect, so this will naturally rub many the wrong way.
Is this really something you wish other people to know? I would expect many people perceive you as uptight because of this, and the underlying reason you behave this way can't be a good thing.
Socionics and MBTI should be treated as different systems, the switch is a myth, there are some studies that statistically show that roughly half of MBTI INFJ and INFP (and most introverts have a similar pattern), identify with IEI and other half IIE by blindly reviewing profiles.
The most plausible answer I could come up with is that, for introverts the ego and persona (I refer to it as id - note that Jung uses id with a different meaning) are not the same for introverts, the id is influenced by an archetype but for extroverts what you see if mostly what you get id=ego. What this means is say for the INFP, the id function is Ni and the id ca be as often used and as improved as the ego, however unconscious. Similarly INFJ's id is the Fi. Actually there is a new model in development that considers this. I suppose this is because Myers Briggs focused on only ego but the socionics is mainly based on observed behavior -id with a mixture of ego.
The most plausible answer I could come up with is that, for introverts the ego and persona (I refer to it as id - note that Jung uses id with a different meaning) are not the same for introverts, the id is influenced by an archetype but for extroverts what you see if mostly what you get id=ego. What this means is say for the INFP, the id function is Ni and the id ca be as often used and as improved as the ego, however unconscious. Similarly INFJ's id is the Fi. Actually there is a new model in development that considers this. I suppose this is because Myers Briggs focused on only ego but the socionics is mainly based on observed behavior -id with a mixture of ego.
Sure, I want them to know that I'm not obligated to put up with them. Why would I care how rude forum members perceive me?
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I enjoyed this video a lot. Contrary to what I said before, I settled on EII for myself. Mostly because I never type as IEI on any socionics test, therefore I figured it would be ignorant to self type as something else. I'm not too familiar with socionics in general, their functions are very different than other cognitive function explanations, such as key2cognition. I read that many properly typed INFJ's will identify with the socionics INFj, and I think it is because of the functions we choose to value, regardless of "stacking preference". The part where he explained that a lot of INFJs value Si gave me so much relief, considering I felt like an alien knowing I was an INFJ with stronger Si than Se. I think there are a lot of flaws with the typical mbti function stacking, considering the value of each function has to be subjective. It doesn't make much sense that each INFJ's experiences would be succumbed to fit a "perfect preference stacking." The explanation the guy in the video gave was very informing, and made a lot of sense towards INF's function valuation.
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I'm INFP in MBTI and I type as EII-2Ne in Socionics. This makes a lot of sense to me, because I feel much more conscious of my use of Ne than of Fi, and identify a lot with the ENFP description in Myers Briggs, which has Ne as the dominant function, although I'm also very clearly an introvert. I agree that the function stacking seems to vary more than Myers Briggs allows for. I'm still trying to get my head round the Socionics stuff though.
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Why does it have to be "OK"? You need...permission? Logical proofs and evidence? Support? What is it that you are asking for in the unspoken subtext here? I believe that therein lies your answer.
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I've noticed that people who speak in terms of "definitely", such as "I am definitely a J type", are usually right...and are J types. YMMV.
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When I say "OK", I mean logically correct. I didn't want to go on here soundinging all stupid like "yea I'm an INFJ in mbti and socionics!", when they have (supposedly) completely different functions. I wanted to see if this was socially acceptable in the typology community, and to see if there was a mistake being made in my testing. I strongly identify with the descriptions in IEI, however I literally never test as it, and I always come out EII (which still fits me in a way). Like I've said, I'm new to socionics and I'm not exactly sure what differentiates the p vs j outcome on the test, I just answer honestly and I get EII-1Fi almost every time (sometimes EII-0 and rarely EII-2Fi.)
Yea I'm definitely an INFJ in mbti/jung lol. You're right about how J types feel definite on something a lot, you may also notice a J type settle on something, then go back and change it. I feel like I always need closure on everything, I can not go about my day with a "maybe I'm this or that" thing going on in the back of my head. For me personally, I love having things decided and settled, even if it's not entirely set in stone.
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